Slashdot Mirror
Dutch A.G. Supports Scientology v. Spaink Verdict
bbc writes "ISP XS4All reports that the Dutch Attorney-General advises against reversal of the last verdict in the Scientology vs. Karin Spaink case (part of Scientology's War on the Internet). A series of court battles between writer Spaink and the Church of Scientology has changed the copyright landscape of the internet in the Netherlands. In an early case, linking to infringing documents was considered infringement itself. Later this was reversed, although by then several unrelated cases (notably Deutsche Bahn v. Indymedia) had been decided on the basis of this judgement. On appeals, the court held that free speech sometimes trumps copyright: even though Spaink may have infringed on the Church's copyright, she was allowed to do so to bring to light the doings of what she considers an evil sect.
According to the XS4All document, not only did the Attorney-General uphold the decision that Free Speech can trump Copyright, but concluded also that there may not have been infringement. The Attorney-General feels a work can be considered published even if publication happened against the will of the author. In the Netherlands, the Supreme Court can only reverse previous decisions by lower courts. Before it renders a verdict, it asks the Attorney-General for advice."
It should be noted that the Dutch AG supports Karen Spaink in the verdict. The story title makes it sound like the support is for $cientology, and the summary doesn't really clarify.
"Scientology's War on the Internet"
For a minute there I read that as "Slashdot's War on anything that isn't internet"
Xenu will be displeased. FEAR THE WRATH!
...to link to Scientology.
As always xenu.net has the dope on the ongoing $scientology vs. the 'net battle
The summary doesn't clarify? Did you even read the summary?
According to the XS4All document, not only did the Attorney-General uphold the decision that Free Speech can trump Copyright, but concluded also that there may not have been infringement.
I can understand not reading the articles, but not even bothering to read the complete article summary? Sheesh!
um, I think maybe all the countries that have always used '.' in place of ',' when mentioning numbers?
I think it's "stuff that matters" because it generally pertains to copyright law. I think it's "news for nerds," or at least for Slashdot nerds, because Scientology has well-deserved a bad rap here.
To the best of my knowledge, Slashdot has only deleted comments three times. Once at the request of the United States Secret Service (maybe that was kuro5hin, I can't seem to find a reference). Once under legal pressure from Microsoft. And once under legal pressure from Scientology.
Scientology threatened the Wayback Machine to the point where its maintainers deleted a bunch of archived content from a site critical of Scientology.
Scientology threatened Google and forced Google to remove listings for that same site which is critical of Scientology.
What Scientology's lawyers are up to is certainly news for nerds.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
Make fun of their religion.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
i thought the goal of a church was to spread its faith , where does a copyright case fit into that , i could understand perhaps if they tried a libel or slander case against someone , but copyright ? does that not defeat the point of spreading the word of whatever it is they belive.
.
.Most importantly Companys / organisations should not be able to sue people into submission to keep all their dirty little secrets quiet.
I would not call scientoligy a church , I do know the history of the scam and its amazing how many people got dragged into this hoax , the work of a sub par sci-fi writter trying to make a bit of cash(perhaps it is a church then j/k)
With the strength of the Dutch high court behind the decision i find it unlikly a reversal will hapen , which is a dammed good thing
"Although copyright resides under Article 1 of the First Protocol of EDHR and can therefore be regarded as a human right, this does not exempt copyright from being balanced against the right to freedom of information.""
I have been thinking of moving to Holland for a few years and I feel I may just do it eventualy if the court keeps churning out decisions like this.
Freedom of information is very importent to secure an even footing for people in this world , We do not need to create another poverty line
Mod me down if you must , but scientolgy is a scam and from storys i have read
it is also a dangerous organisation . I am thankfull that Germany disallows the Organisation charitable status here , i dont agree with some of germanys policys
on these matters but sometimes it is for the best
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
So, Scientology, as a "religion" is allowed to maintain a copyright over its underlying dogma? Freaky! That would be like saying that Scientology should be deemed a private source initiative where L.Ron Hubbard and family maintain the IP over the movement's ideas (much like they seem to benefit financially from that IP). By comparison, Judeo-Christianity-Islamism is largely an open source religious undertaking. This is since it was easy for anyone to contribute relevant parts to the religious kernel and its now forked innumerable times into different flavours of Mosesnix.
The following is from the Scientology FAQ. I think it explains very clearly why we don't like them. [/sarcasm]
----------------
Why do some people oppose Scientology?
There are certain characteristics and mental attitudes that cause a percentage of the population to oppose violently any betterment activity or group. This small percentage of society (roughly 2 percent) cannot tolerate that Scientology is successful at improving conditions around the world. This same 2 percent is opposed to any effective self-betterment activity. The reason they so rabidly oppose Scientology is because it is doing more to help society than any other group. Those who are upset by seeing man get better are small in number compared to the millions who have embraced Scientology and its efforts to create a sane civilization and more freedom for the individual.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
Come with friends, don't go alone! Those people are nutty. I was there last year in the spring with three of my friends. It was a wierd and interesting experience. We got there and there were all these, what seemed like zombies walking around. All with perpetual smiles on their faces, dressed in business suites with ties and women in nice dresses. Very clean and very spooky. We made up fake names, addresses, phones, and such and made up some problems we have (Sc1ent0log1sts like to tell you how messed up you are so they can "help you". Make sure to have stuff for them to bite on - "addicted to Slashdot" - that would work).
You do get to tour the building but you have to watch their tape, that ends in the "convert to 5cientology or die and suffer" type of message, quite amusing!
Then you can get young cute zombie girls to try to convince you to sign up for courses just so you can find out about 5cientol0gy. I had fun with mine, she was 17 and came from Michigan. Scient0logy, she claims, helped her cure some chronic sinus problem. Instead of talking about me and my problems she ended up running back and forth to her supervisor / boss for answers. I asked for scientific data and she gave me an evil look mixed with a sigh, "not one of those again..." then she brought me books written by Ron. I could hardly hold myself from laughing.
The saddest thing to see was when we toured the basement and they have all these saunas there. In the sauna, supposedly, you get your toxins out by staying in the steam until you pass out and drink overpriced herb tea. And there I saw this old Asian woman, who couldn't speak English too well. She was sitting down by the sauna center looking around like she was scared and lost. Hovering around her was another one of those cute zobmie clones, trying to persuade her to sign up for another "amazing" sauna experience. The old lady was nervously smilling and politely nodding her head. Of course she was going to sign up for another $1000 sauna clensing session, there is was no way she could resist those vultures. I felt sick to my stomach, she will probably end up giving them all her retirement money. Ron sure came up with the perfect scheme to make money.
Then we saw Ron's office, where (of course!) his spirit is still present, and then the library, where they almost forced us to buy the great works by Ron.
In the library, I saw those pseudo-lie detectors they use, basically a skin resistance meter. At RadioShack they are $30, at the "Celebrity Center" they are $4000! I was told they measure "mental mass". I thought of asking what the units are and how they are derived from other known physical quantities, but I thought I shouldn't piss them off too bad, I saw how nutty they really were by then and started to be a little scared. Then we left.
Anyway, it was a fun experience. Though I would share it. Anyone else had any interesing encounters with those people?
So Happy Sunshine Week everyone!!
"Attorney-General" is a inaccurate translation of the Dutch term "Advocaat Generaal". An American Attorney-General is more like the Dutch Minister of Justice. An Advocaat-Generaal is more like a American federal prosecutor. The Advocaaten-Generaal are specifically the prosecutors who appear before the Hoge Raad (Supreme Court).
...before I put Xenu as Wikipedia's daily featured article, I made damn sure to get Jimbo's permission (in the year+ I have been choosing the main page featured articles, the only other time I asked his permission before running a featured article was before putting up Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. Good thing I asked too, because 2 days later, we were blocked in China (for a second time))
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Copyright law recognised this in that: a copyright was for a limited term (how long does an author live ?); and it allowed quoting of parts of the work (after reading the quote you may be enticed to buy the whole book).
The Church of Scientology (CoS) is using copyright to prevent criticism of itself. The people who it is acting against are not reproducing CoS works to make a quick buck. This is a very different scenario than was envisaged by the original authors of copyright legislation. This is a case where the judges should look at the purpose of legislation rather than the words in which it is written and, through precedent, fix it for the future. It is like when you write a program for some purpose, and using it for something extra breaks it (exposes a bug), so you fix it.
I suppose that you could say that the CoS is using copyright to protect it's financial interests, but that is through keeping potential adherents in the dark until they are well & truely hooked rather than preventing others from making a quick buck from it's works.
Anyone know when the fishman affidavit comes out of copyright ?
Scientology has a lot in common with other cults. Every cult I've ever come accross teaches its members the following:
1) The outside world is evil or corrupt, only other culties can be trusted
2) The cult has all the answers to life's problems.
3) Cult members are special in some way, better than other people.
4) Cult members MUST adhere to the dictates of the cult leadership.
5) Anyone who leaves the cult is evil and must be destroyed
There are probably other common themes, but you get the idea.
It doesn't matter if you're talking about the Scientologists, Moonies, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Heaven's Gate cult, or any of the others, all of them to a greater or lesser degree possess these qualities.
What makes Scientology so pernicious is that it is a purely exploitive group. No one is ever helped by Scientology. It is a psychic and financial vampire that bleeds everyone it gets a hold of dry, both of their mental well-being and any assets they might have. Other cults, especially ones that have grown to the point of quasi-legitimacy and respectability, are actually a positive influence in the lives of their members as often as not. Not so with scientology. The only happy ending where scientology is involved is one where scientology is no longer in the picture.
Anything negative or criminal thing you can think of Scientology is either doing already, or would do in a heartbeat if it suited its purposes. It is the closest thing to pure evil I've ever come in contact with, and I should know since I was involved in it for almost ten years. They do a good job of promoting themselves and hiding the truth.
They've enslaved (and yes I mean that literally) thousands and bankrupted tens of thousands more. They help no one. I only hope I live long enough to see the cult in ruins, the truth about it known to all, and its victims free of its evil.
If you want to learn more check out the following site, it contains everything you ever wanted to know about Scientology that the clams were afraid you'd ask:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Scientogloy if a cult designed purely to make money, rather like other cults, but more sinister, as they are trying to be even monopolisticin the evil department.
/. story.
They make contact through IQ tests, herding in the gulible and vain, with some plausible junk about increasing IQ and other shit, then it is like a pyramid marketting scheme where you train up and teach others, it only pushes itself into 'religion' because it can seek protection under religious law clauses.
Just treat is as a money leeching pyramid scheme and you can't do to bad. If you meet a hot scientologist chick, shag her, then piss on her and leave her pregnant, and laugh at her occassionally via phone.
If we do that enough times we could stamp it out!
(if you meet a scientologist guy, just ask him about aliens that are stuck to you and how to get rid of them, and then take it seriously and start cutting yourself saying "GET THEM OFF ME OH MY FUCKING HELL AAAAAAAARGH") and see if he uses his supernatural powers to save himself.
Official: Scientology is worse than a piquepaille
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
If she turns up dead from the Co$ nutters we /.'rs should unite and go military on thier asses:
The Church of Scientology (or: CoS; or: Co$, as some of their opponents call it) sells its followers expensive courses which, if students study them carefully, are supposed to set them free ('clear' them). A former Scientology member, Steven Fishman, was brought before court because he committed several crimes in order to get the money to pay for these courses. Scientology urged him to get the money any which way he could. According to Fishman, they also assigned him to kill somebody, and failing that, ordered him to commit suicide.
Thanks Karen.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
To be quite fair, it is common practice in Mystery cults to keep the secrets of the higher grades of Initiation from its lower members. In ordinary practice, there is no need to enforce this secrecy as the lower initiates wouldn't understand the material anyway, but sometimes for whatever reason a vow of secrecy is required from the higher Initiates (cf the Freemasons).
So, on the face of it, there is no reason to not respect Scientology's copyrights. There is however a major fly in the ointment: there is a strong suspicion that Scientology is not a legitimate Mystery cult, but in fact a scam operation that aims to extract the maximum amount of money from its members. As such it is possibly a criminal organisation, and publication of evidence pointing in that direction is in the public interest. Jurisprudence in most Western states says that the public interest trumps copyright protection (in fact, this was one of the arguments in this case).
Mart"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Scientology edges the line of lies and libel because they'd really love to have a critic try to fight them in court where they've been quite happy to spend millions to crush single critics. They'd abuse the hell out depositions during discovery (as usual), and then drag the case out for years of expense. If they lost, they could just collapse their sock-puppet, and pop up another one. (This in the 3rd generation of such sites.)
Take a look and think about what kind of cthurch puts up a site like that.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
We can thank the CoS for the passing of what was a wonderful invention -- and probably the first of its kind ever on the net. For anyone who hasn't been on the net more than 10 years, here's a brief history of the penet.fi anonymous remailer:
s .h tml
p en et.html
http://www.december.com/cmc/mag/1997/sep/helmer
and
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/cos/rnewman/anon/
The CoS destroyed a part of net history.
*grumblecakes*
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
I am a child of Scientology. I was born with both parents in the church. My father is now in the Sea Org (Their elite with the long term contract) and my mother is on the Scientology list of public enemies. The church prohibits my father from speaking with me as a result. Same thing goes for my mother's sister (Yes, she's my aunt) who can't talk to her whole family. The reason? My mother is a "Suppressive Person" (SP). Anyone that communicates with her is a "Potential Trouble Source" (PTS). People in the Sea Org such as my father and aunt are not allowed to communicate directly with SPs or PTSs and heavily discouraged from using things like approved letters. My father physically abused me and I ended up in the hospital when I was younger. Yes, I remember an incident. He told my mother to go to hell and didn't speak to either of us when I was 6. Left my mother with a huge IRS debt from when they were married. His mother had sent him money to pay it and my mother thought it was taken care of. 10 years later, she starts getting threatening letters from the IRS. 10 years of IRS interest before they set "Reasonable" limits amounted to something like $15,000. It's all OK though since my mother is considered "Fair Game", right ? When I was 16 and moved out on my own to get away from my mother who's still struggling to erase the mental damage done by the church, I went to see my father and try to get to know him. He was still at a mission and wasn't subject to the harsher rules in the Sea Org. I'm a forgiving person and thought both of us could benefit from getting to know each other. I lived in the same house (Paying rent like everyone else) with 4 Scientologists total and even took a basic course at the mission my father worked at to try and understand what my father and aunt were so committed to. Man those people are are brainwashed. Reading about it isn't the same as seeing it. The best example I can give is a kid. Must have been 7 or 8 at most. He was walking around at an event at the LA building trying to recruit people. He sounded just like all the adults and had an answer for any argument you threw his way. These people live in their own subculture complete with their own laws and reasoning. A half year later, I moved out, but still visited my father when he actually used his one day off per week for personal use. Shortly after I moved out, he joined the Sea Org (He had been invited like 10 years earlier, but had a lot of responsibility at the mission he's been at). For one year, he struggled to get an exception made so he could see me. We saw each other about once every other month. He was finally getting remarried and I was going to be his best man. The last time I saw him or spoke to him, he called me for a visit. I knew something was wrong before I arrived. We went to a Burger King for lunch and he told me that he would not see me again and I could not even attend the wedding. When I asked why he keeps doing this; why he throws away everything else for the sake of Scientology, he responded, "It's all I know how to do after 20 years."
This is kind of a trimmed down version for the sake of making the post short. Maybe someday I'll talk with someone and spend a few years on a crusade with others to fully expose the church to the public eye. As long as the average persona hasn't heard of Scientology, the cult will continue to thrive and amass lost souls.
-Lucas