Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Katamari Damacy and Gamespy Wireless on the DS

Posted by Zonk on from the rollin'-rollin'-rollin' dept.

Hit quirky game Katamari Damacy will be coming to the Nintendo DS sometime in the near future, according to Joystiq. From the article: "The game is listed under Namco's planned DS titles. Squint hard at the top of the image, and you'll see it. Get that stylus ready. You're going to be pushing around a world of crap with it, soon enough." At the same time, GamesAreFun.com has information about the DS Wireless Service, which is going to be hosted partially by Gamespy.

41 comments

  1. But.. by Ghost429 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wouldn't the Katamari pick up my stylus when it got too big?

    --
    I already know i'm going to hell, now i'm just trying to get cable down there.
  2. Great gaem, but... by Scutter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    KD is a great game, but it was *way* too short. Ten levels? It only really gets good on the last level! I'd at least like to see a "free play" level, where it's not timed and you can just keep rolling stuff up forever (or until you've rolled up the whole universe).

    --

    "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    1. Re:Great gaem, but... by generic-man · · Score: 4, Informative

      Three of the levels have "Eternal" modes. If you get your katamari up to a certain size, you unlock "Eternal mode" where you can play the level for as long as you like.

      I forget the exact figures needed to unlock Eternal modes, but it's something like 600m on Make the Moon. Once you've rolled up EVERYTHING, there's a theoretical maximum size of about 900m on that level.

      --
      For more information, click here.
    2. Re:Great gaem, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't confirm this personally, but I heard that on the last level if you roll up the rainbow into your katamari (you must be ~700m in size to do so) you unlock freeplay mode.

    3. Re:Great gaem, but... by oskillator · · Score: 1
      The last level is actually kind of depressing in that respect. Once you've got everything, you're just a fat ball rolling around in the ocean, and there's nothing left to do. Rolling up the whole universe would be tricky, because once you've got the Earth, what do you roll on? Plus, density is such that you'd be rolling a long time just to find anything else.

      I'm not saying these problems are insurmountable; in fact I hope they are working on them in the sequel. But this still doesn't fix the primary problem: that there is an upper limit to your growth ability. Looping would be a copout solution, but I can't think of a better one.

    4. Re:Great gaem, but... by Megane · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It lasts a bit longer if you go for all items and all names. That can take a few weeks if you have a regular job, and the last few items will drive you crazy trying to find them, even with the help of Google.

      And then there's the ending credits "level", in which it is exremely difficult to pick up all countries. I went for all items and all names but only played the ending credits once, and that was only after I read that it was playable and wanted to see what it looked like. It gets really hard toward the end because the camera is so far away that you can't see what you're doing.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    5. Re:Great gaem, but... by Ghost_MH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      900m is about as large as you can make the thing. Sadly, each of the Eternal levels seems to have a maximum size...Try as I may there seems to be a limit I cannot break in any of the three Eternal Modes. One cool thing in the Eternal Modes are the appearances of the small prince's family members. In the very first Eternal Level you can find a cousin of yours eating all the food in the family's fridge. What I would rather see in a Katamari Damacy game is a random level generator. It's not like the worlds are all that complex...I can't imagine it being too difficult for the game to randomly generate these levels.

    6. Re:Great gaem, but... by Mike+Rubits · · Score: 1

      It was closer to 980M. I actually did it :) Every single object, however I don't remember the exact number.

    7. Re:Great gaem, but... by Doomstalk · · Score: 1

      How do you roll up the universe when your drunken bastard of a father has destroyed everything?

    8. Re:Great gaem, but... by eric_brissette · · Score: 1

      I haven't played this yet.. Is it a good have-some-drinks-with-friends-and-play type game?

    9. Re:Great gaem, but... by PhoenixFlare · · Score: 1

      Maybe it'd be more fun if you're drunk, but the two-player mode didn't really seem all that entertaining to me - too limited.

      Better off just taking turns on some of the wierder 1-player levels :)

    10. Re:Great gaem, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the cousins are in all of the levels, they're just easy to find in eternal mode where you have time to run all over everything and retread ground to "pick up" things you missed (since each "stage" of growth causes new things to appear and the smallest things to disappear)

      I'd be hard-pressed to give any number as a maximum size based on my experience. Maybe you can go a lot farther by strictly picking up objects in a small->large order (so you pick up the small ones before they disappear with the stage changes!) Even if its only a few cm at first, maybe at later stages grabbing those brick walls before picking up the houses makes a bigger difference.

      The random level generator does sound like a great idea, though I think a lot of the fun in the original game was that everything you picked up fit the theme of where it belonged... maybe randomly selected maps (more than 3! though having everything connected by using different parts of the city and world maps was neat too) with a random "goal".

  3. Can the DS handle it? by Corngood · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have my doubts. The game takes advantage of the huge polygon pushing ability of the PS2 (loads of similar objects, very little texturing or blending). The DS is nowhere near as capable in this respect. I reckon they would even have some trouble on other home consoles, or PC.

    1. Re:Can the DS handle it? by SetupWeasel · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Xbox and the GameCube can push more polygons than the PS2, which shows exactly how mech you know about video game systems.

      Obviously NAMCO thinks the DS can handle it, and they have more experience with programming the DS than you or I.

    2. Re:Can the DS handle it? by oskillator · · Score: 3, Informative
      "The Xbox and the GameCube can push more polygons than the PS2"

      Can they? The Xbox and GameCube GPUs are relatively fixed-function compared to the PS2's, which are more like generic DSP units. Yes, the Xbox and GameCube can render a more complex scene than the PS2 at the same framerate, under certain common constraints, but the PS2 offers much greater flexibility. So, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the PS2 could push more flat-shaded polygons than either the Xbox or GC (which was Corngood's point).

      As for the question of whether the DS can handle Katamari Damacy, obviously the answer is yes, if it's simplified enough. The real question is whether the game simplified to that level is going to retain the value of the original game. I'm not seeing it... but you're quite welcome to surprise me, MANCO.

    3. Re:Can the DS handle it? by FLAGGR · · Score: 1

      You really don't know what your talking about do you? Obviously, anyways, the DS can do it, otherwise they wouldn't be making it. :)

    4. Re:Can the DS handle it? by Zangief · · Score: 1

      I don't think they are going to use polygonal models of things on the DS. Just sprites.

      So it will be a big ball of sprites making up the 3d ball, in an almost 3d world (3d landscape, but sprite objects).

    5. Re:Can the DS handle it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Namco you mean...
      Manco (usually written Manko) means vagina.

    6. Re:Can the DS handle it? by Corngood · · Score: 1

      You are correct, they obviously do have a plan. My point was that people shouldn't expect a port of the ps2 version. Think along the lines of Splinter Cell on AGB.

      How about a top-down version? I think that could work rather well on the ds, and rolling around the ball with the touch screen would be intuitive.

    7. Re:Can the DS handle it? by ambrosine10 · · Score: 1


      but you're quite welcome to surprise me, MANCO.

      You have no idea how hilarious that sounds to someone who knows Japanese. It's NAMCO. "Manko" means cunt, or pussy.

    8. Re:Can the DS handle it? by MilenCent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure it can handle it.

      1. The DS has a lower resolution. This lets 3D hardware that's slightly better than a N64 provide relatively better visuals than it did. If the game only provided 3D on one of the screens then so much the better.

      2. The PS2 can't handle Katamari Damacy, in a manner of speaking. I read in the post-mortem of the game in Game Developer Magazine that the game "cheats" when the ball gets loaded with stuff, removing difficult-to-see and relatively small stuff on the interior of the ball as it increases in size. Just increase this cheating factor on the DS and there you go. It'd be less noticable on the DS because, again, of the reduced resolution.

      3. Katamari Damacy isn't all that bad. The PS2 is still relatively underpowered when it comes to Gamecube and Xbox. It's still more powerful than the DS (or PSP for that matter), but see #1 above.

      It's also possible that Namco could cheat, by using sprites for some objects. If the camera is not very moveable then this may work for objects not yet collected, as the game could use the DS' sprite scaling to simulate 3D to some extent.

      They could also cheat by not actually allowing objects to stick to the ball and using a generic katamari model for it that just gets bigger, but a lot of the game's charm would be lost in that event. That would be a worst-case scenario for DS Katamari Damacy, I'd guess.

    9. Re:Can the DS handle it? by cgenman · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are kidding, right?

      Katamari Damacy didn't exactly make the PS2 cry and beg for mercy. You're talking about a field of objects and vision that while it could be cluttered it didn't exceed the amount of pushable polys by a long shot. Certainly it didn't have anywhere near as many polys on screen as, say, Madden 2004, and those were textured / lit / etc.

      Plus, Katamari is a prime example of a game that could be optimized. All of the "regular" edges were rounded, almost unnecessarily so. Removing or reducing the rounded edges could reduce polycount by 50 - 90%. Likewise, with the reduced size / resolution of the DS screen it would be much easier to "drop out" things from the world sooner, from ants that stick around long after they're black dots on the regular screen to cars that you can barely see when you're giant. Katamari is optimized for such transitions, and to do so would be relatively easy. You could probably get another 50% poly savings there too. Plus the DS is running at about 40% length and 40% height resolution on each of it's screens, saving between 50% - 80% on poly rendering, depending on how they decide to use the second screen.

      You can also drop the "special effect" in katamari. You know, that distance blur thing, which so many people find so annoying. On a TFT screen, it will probably be impossible to see anyway.

      And if you did have to remove objects from the world, it would be relatively easy to do, and just boost the size multiplier of the remaining objects.

      There are a ton of ways that you can optimise the design of Katamari Damacy down to a smaller system. This shouldn't be a problem at all.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    10. Re:Can the DS handle it? by Ghost_MH · · Score: 1

      I believe you're correct here. I was always under the impression that the PS2 could, indeed, handle more flat shaded polygons than either the GAMECUBE or the Xbox. Not that millions of flat shaded polygons are very interesting to look at. Though I do have to wonder...Can such high quality models even be loaded onto the PS2 given it's relatively small cache of RAM.

    11. Re:Can the DS handle it? by cgenman · · Score: 1

      I should point out that all consoles after the 16 bit era, except for the Saturn, were inherently Polygon-based. Even 2D masterpieces like Symphony of the Night are a bunch of 2D textures mapped to very rigid polygons. Handhelds up until this point have been the exception, as the polygon pushing power of the GBA is not exactly legendary, but I wouldn't be surprised if the DS was 100% textured.

      Don't get me wrong, this is great in a lot of ways. Just imagining the optimizations that must have gone into, say, needing to reduce your art assets memory footprint by 20% without decreasing their size on the SNES must have been incredibly painful. Now it will take a coder an hour to write and debug a script that takes all of your art assets, reduces their physical size, then rescales them back to the size the game needs. Or maybe your game needs larger sprites / etc. While there are still quality / etc effects from manipulations, such things are much easier when all sprites are polygons.

      But make no mistake, pretty much all sprites these days are polygon textures.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    12. Re:Can the DS handle it? by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      Well, in all fairness, it was intensive enough that they did have to drop the frame rate down to 30, probably because Namco figured there was no way the game was going to run at 60 all the time.

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  4. But will it be available in europe? by CaptainCheese · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately Namco (so far) have decided not to ship the PS2 version in europe - even in the UK, where there are no language porting costs.

    If this is released on the DS over here it might just convince me to buy my very first portable nintendo device...

    --
    -- .sigs are a waste of data...turn them off...
    1. Re:But will it be available in europe? by fr0dicus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They claim the code isn't in any state to convert to the lower PAL framerate. Timing-based games require some tweaking in this respect. Metroid Prime 2 with its 60hz only mode and Ninja Gaiden with its broken first person view in 50hz mode tend to support this pov that developers occasionally use as an excuse. I believe Sony insist on a 50hz mode, and would be unlikely to change policy for a third party.

  5. Billboards by Taulin · · Score: 1

    I just wonder if they will replace most of the 3d objects with billboards (sprites always facing the camera) to improve speed. I don't see how the DS can handle this game in its native state. Maybe Namco is going to make a side scroller version much like all Gameboy ports used to become.

    1. Re:Billboards by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Billboards could work if the camera isn't freely movable, and if it uses a lot of different sprites for different angles. That'd require a lot of management of sprite memory though, especially if the graphics chips in the DS have the same sprite memory limitations as the GBA does (which it probably doesn't).

      They could use a combination of methods. Mario 64 has many ball-shaped enemies that are represented by flat sprites. Objects with cylindrical components, like lampposts, could also be cheated around a bit.

      The problem with the billboard option is it becomes difficult to maintain once the stuff is on the ball, which would then require the object to be rotated in all dimensions. The DS' lower resolution could be its saving grace in that case.

    2. Re:Billboards by tepples · · Score: 1

      Billboards could work if the camera isn't freely movable, and if it uses a lot of different sprites for different angles.

      Billboards worked for the karts in Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart 64, and Mario Kart Super Circuit.

      especially if the graphics chips in the DS have the same sprite memory limitations as the GBA does (which it probably doesn't).

      GBA has 96 KB of VRAM. Nintendo DS has roughly 650 KB of VRAM. Besides, a lot of GBA games routinely swap sprite cels into VRAM in real time; see my white paper on the technique.

      They could use a combination of methods.

      Play Super Smash Bros. for N64 to see a prime example of combining methods.

    3. Re:Billboards by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Billboards worked for the karts in Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart 64, and Mario Kart Super Circuit.

      But Katamari Damacy is a greatly different game from any of those. Only eight carts on a track compared to a world full of things, including a big rotating ball containing the last few dozen of those things collected all rotating together.

      GBA has 96 KB of VRAM. Nintendo DS has roughly 650 KB of VRAM. Besides, a lot of GBA games routinely swap sprite cels into VRAM in real time; see my white paper on the technique.

      I don't need to see a white paper, I'm familiar with how it's done. But the GBA's VRAM is still limited in size, and it's possible to hit the memory limit with just the stuff on the screen during one frame, and VRAM swapping techniques can only do so much. However, the DS' larger VRAM would make this much more feasible.

      Play Super Smash Bros. for N64 to see a prime example of combining methods.

      Again, Smash is a very different situation. N64 Smash Bros. was designed with purposely low-polygon environments, and relatively low-poly characters, while a lot of the charm of Katamari Damacy comes from picking up lots of real-world objects that have to look similar to their physical counterparts.

      That said, I think there's a chance that sprite graphics could work for the basic game, but experiments would have to be run to make sure. And that doesn't solve the problem of having those sprite-based objects displayed on the ball and continuously rolling, which would require a hell of a lot more frames of animation than just resting on the landscape.

      That Namco has announced the game (and has a screen shot with polygonal crabs sticking to the ball) indicates that some thought has already been put into this. Here's hoping it turns out well, for a Katamari Damacy game seems like it'd be a perfect fit for the DS.

  6. It'll be interesting to watch the price by pnice · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So we have this great game, Katami Damacy, and it made a name for itself being unique and fun. It was also released brand new for the PS2 at $19.95. You think it'll release on the DS for $19.95? Somehow I doubt it. Should it? That's a tough one to answer. Someone help me out. I want it for the DS and for $19.95 I would pick it up first thing on the day it came out...I'll still get it when it ends up costing more...but it would be a nice surprise.

    --
    My Xbox Live Gamer Card
    1. Re:It'll be interesting to watch the price by Kyouryuu · · Score: 1

      It's a valid question, though. Would "Everyone Loves Katamari Damacy," the sequel to the PS2 game, retail for $20? Personally, I have my doubts.

  7. Age of Empires DS? by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1


    More news on Age of Empires DS!

    AoE DS will be a remake of Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings. Apparently, it will now be a "fast-paced" turn-based strategy game. There will be at least 5 civilizations to choose from, at least 15 different types of buildings, and more than 50 unit types. A combat advisor will help you with tactics for battle during your campaign.

    Source: Nintendo Power

    They do show potential screenshots, but they look nothing like Age of Kings. Actually, they look downright horrible. But heck, if this pans out, it could be quite interesting. I love RTS games, and Age of Kings is one of the best.

  8. Why not run it in PAL-M? by tepples · · Score: 1

    If KD can't be made to run in 50 Hz for the European market, then why not run it in PAL-M, the 525-line 60 Hz variant of PAL used in Brazil among other places? I've read that almost all recent PAL TVs can sync to 60 Hz.

    1. Re:Why not run it in PAL-M? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called PAL60, not PAL-M. PAL-M is slightly different from PAL60, though I don't know enough to pinpoint them exactly.

      Anyway, as was said above; if Sony has a policy requiring 50Hz in Europe (to show they're thinking of people playing through an RF connection or various TV tuners), that's probably why.

  9. Debris in Mario Kart 64 by tepples · · Score: 1

    [Mario Kart 64 has o]nly eight carts on a track compared to [Katamari Damacy's] world full of things, including a big rotating ball containing the last few dozen of those things collected all rotating together.

    Then roll your ball over some [?] blocks, [(Slashdot is configured to delete Spanish inverted question marks)] blocks, banana peels, turtle shells, moles, crabs, snowmen, penguins, thwomps, coconuts, porcupines, chomps, and various other trash on a Mario Kart 64 course.

    1. Re:Debris in Mario Kart 64 by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      All of those things are not on the same course, and only rarely is even a handful on-screen at once. Further, it doesn't matter much what direction a banana peel faces, most enemies face the player. (And thwomps are polygonal, too.) Katamari Damacy has an order of magnitude more things on-screen at once, and when they're all on the ball and rotating they're considerably more difficult to render convincingly as sprites. So I say unto you: nyaah!

      At the heart of this is an issue of feel over pure design. It matters, in Katamari Damacy, that the stuff you stick to the ball is visible and rotating along with it, to a degree above issues of pure game design. The game would play exactly the same if collected stuff were reflected in just making the core ball bigger (maybe deforming it a bit to reflect big stuff sticking out), but it wouldn't be as much fun. People have mentioned the game's simplistic graphics, but it's just as realistic as it needs to be, and it does need those graphics.

      Anyway, I don't know if the DS can handle it all with its 3D hardware, but it just might be able to what with the DS' lower screen resolution. Sprite cheating, however, is likely not a universal solution unless the game were designed around it (with a fixed camera at least).

  10. Hopefully KD won't use the stylus by Mostly+Monkey · · Score: 1

    As nifty as the stylus is for many game types, I really hope they don't lock you into using it for KD. It would be pretty tough to keep your inertia up if you have to keep swiping the screen from bottom to top. The D-pad should at least be an option.

    --
    Chika Chik-ah... do-e ow ow.
    1. Re:Hopefully KD won't use the stylus by Cymoro · · Score: 1

      I thought of two ways: 1) One-sided. Set up like Metroid Prime: Hunters, except the stylus moves the ball, the D-Pad moves the camera, and L jumps. Going up and down on the screen charges the ball (or circling). Can work with A/B/X/Y/L. 2) Dual. Pretty much uses the D-Pad and A/B/X/Y as the PS2's sticks so that it retains the tank controls. R could jump, and I'm not sure of L. Maybe first-person POV for L. Trust me, it's gotten me thinking.

  11. Control ways (With formatting, sorry for the dupe) by Cymoro · · Score: 1

    I thought of two ways:

    1) One-sided. Set up like Metroid Prime: Hunters, except the stylus moves the ball, the D-Pad moves the camera, and L jumps. Going up and down on the screen charges the ball (or circling). Can work with A/B/X/Y/L.

    2) Dual. Pretty much uses the D-Pad and A/B/X/Y as the PS2's sticks so that it retains the tank controls. R could jump, and I'm not sure of L. Maybe first-person POV for L.

    Trust me, it's gotten me thinking. (Sorry, figured it would be easier for people to read with br tags.)