Slashdot Mirror
Windows Terminal Server Replacement?
Evanrude asks: "In my never ending quest to eliminate the Windows operating system from my life, I have yet to find a Linux replacement for the Windows Terminal Server product/service. I have come across the Linux Terminal Server Project but from everything I have read about it, you must boot a diskless workstation to use it, there is no client to connect to it from say a remote workstation [read: internet or remote VPN client]. There is also the Citrix Metaframe Presentation Server for Unix, but I am really looking for something that will run on Linux. I have also googled for anything related to Linux and the Remote Desktop Protocol, but have not had good luck. Has anyone had any experience with replacing a Windows Terminal Server with something Linux based or know of any other projects that might be more on track with this than the LTSP?"
So I take it that X over SSH won't work? Seems to me that that's the obvious choice (its what I'd do).
Are you looking for something besides that?
Is called X11. The existance of X11 for 'nix has meant this is not a neccessary product on that platform. Worst case would be to set up Cygwin/X on the clients, and tunnel the connections through SSH (which is perhaps the most complicated way possible to say "put a '-x' on the ssh command"). Put a 'gnome-session &' or the KDE equivelent in their startup script, and you're set. Lots of times on these sorts of questions, people will say "that's not neccessary, just do ____". But in this case, the Windows terminal servers are themselves a way of simulating X11. Short of an X11 server for Windows (like Cygwin) needing installed, everything's already there.
Implicit Evaluation with PHP
You can run multiple VNC servers on a linux box and had the equivalent. They can even be secured with SSH.
Regards,
Ryan Pritchard
Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
Any X server will function as a remote client to a Linux installation, and this applies to LTSP first. You're searching for the wrong terms, read up about how X clients and servers work.
look at nx/freenx, it works pretty well and is even cross platform. KDE has some kind of integration/support.
http://www.nomachine.com/
"In my never ending quest to eliminate the Windows operating system from my life" - Maybe you should try the never ending quest to provide the best available setup. Seriously I love OSS and Linux just as much as the next guy, but people like you only make things harder for everyone else. Is OSS ALWAYS the best choice, the cheapest, the most user friendly? No. Some times it is, some times it isn't. The point of the matter is it sounds like you've been looking for "the best" solution and you can't accept it's on a Windows OS.
So IMHO, stick with MS Terminal Services - it's the best thing out there right now. However secretly I hope you install something else, screw it up and lose your job.
Then you want this: rdesktop.org
Check out KDE's offering in this respect.
t tp://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/krfb
krdc and krfb claim to be RDP and VNC compatible.
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/krdc
h
I honestly haven't gotten around to trying to compile and install the mess of little packages that make up the free sources for the FreeNX server and client, but combined with X's "built in" network transparency it may do what you need. (NoMachine sells licenses for a pre-built commercial version of the server and appears to have some binary downloads for clients as well.)
X11 itself already has mechanisms built in (for quite a long time now) to handle remote "terminal server" type connections, but by themselves they're really only suited to being used over a LAN. For "remoter" access (e.g. over the internet) FreeNX supposedly adds the functionality that you need to do this.
(Anybody want to comment on their experiences getting FreeNX installed and configured?)
As other posters have suggested, X-over-SSH is also an option, and is more likely to be more or less built-in for whatever distribution of Linux you're using. Linux systems should have the necessary capability to do this built in, and you can get the same functionality for Microsoft's Windows via installation of CygWin X11 and OpenSSH packages.
VNC is a third option, though I gather it doesn't work quite as well for this sort of thing as FreeNX or X11-over-SSH does.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
The whole reason why Windows Terminal Server (and Citrix) came about is because windows isn't a multi-user operating system, unlike *nix.
All you need is an account on the *nix server, you can then login to it and run whatever programs you want, remotely. X11 has inbuilt networking support so you can display the program locally while running the 'compute' bit on the server.
You don't really explain why you need a WTS type system, other than to replace one. Perhaps you should look at what you are trying to achieve then see how *nix will do this in a proper multi-user operating system way.
Is the client running linux or a version of windows? If the client is using Linux then using a X session on a remote X server is the way to go, with SSH. But if your client is using Windows and your server would be Linux/unix.. I can't garantee the stability of the connection and applications. Unless there is a client for windows to run a X sessions in full screen ? Hum.. What about LiveCD booting and connecting directly to a remote X server with SSH connections?
Just realized I should clarify that in this part I mean the capability to be a "terminal" - to USE X11 over SSH to run a remote X11 session. Cygwin's X11 packages theoretically should also be able to serve connections from remote terminals as well, but only for X11/Cygwin applications, you can't run "Microsoft Word" (for example) via X11-over-SSH...
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
..about what you're trying to acheive?
Like, what you want to do with your "Linux terminal server session" once you've got it? Also, how many users are we talking about. It might be that something as simple as running vncserver as a service with desktops started for a few users might be what you want, or you might want something a bit more complicated
...he wants to set up a Linux box and be able to remotely connect to it like you would with a Windows Terminal Server box using a standard RDP client. And it sounds like he wants to be able to access multiple, concurrent sessions (unlike Windows XP Pro's Console access.) Yes, you could use X and SSH, but unfortunatly, that kind of connectivity is not easy with Windows clients.
Looks like he just wants to run Windows Terminal Services under Linux. How would he do this?
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
What I am really missing here is what you want to do no matter if you use WTS or some Unix-based thing.
... depending on your network infrastructure).
Usually you don't have a terminal service just for the sake of it but for accessing some kind of application or the other.
If this application is a Windows-only app then the answer is: No, you cannot replace the server by something Unixy, but certainly you can use Linux or something else as a (thin) client as many in this thread have suggested.
If the app also runs on *ix or has appropriate replacements there then run it there and use one of the suggestions above (X11, NX, VNC,
I've wondered about this kind of thing as well. The one thing that the RDP based implementations seem to have over standard X versions is that they can pipe the sound over along with display.
Is there any way to get full sound support when connecting remotely to your (flavor of) unix server? Preferably a free/open solution...
-supertux
TightVNC includes a server Xvnc that has an inetd mode. Basically, you set up identd (or equivalent) to listen on a port (say, 5901) and when a connection comes in it fires up a copy of Xvnc to serve it. Xvnc can query an XDMCP server it initallize a new desktop for the new server. That part runs like a champ.
kdm claims that it will respond to XDMCP requests when the proper config options are set, but I have not yet been able make that part happen. So for now all I get is a grey-crosshatch default X background and mouse pointer that doesn't have anything to click on.
I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
Any of those three will do something like what you're looking for in different ways. If all you need is access to data from the server, OpenVPN is easy to configure and pretty secure. VNC is MUCH nicer on *nix than it is on Windows. Multiple servers can be run with various levels of access based on the privlages of the user. Haven't messed with X over SSH too much, but I understand it'll do what you're looking for, too.
Check out this old blog entry of mine. It details how to set up VNC in a way that does what I think you're trying to do. Clients for any popular OS are abundant.
You can run that on top of a regular Linux distro, or if you also need thin clients you can add this to an LTSP server.
Use LTSP with SSHVNC or NoMachine. You can read a tiny bit about someone using SSHVNC with LTSP here:
s St ories
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Succes
Our non-profit needs a terminal server very bad. We are using mostly Windows 95. We just need funding for hardware.
OK several people have mentioned it, but apparently the other posters don't seem to catch the hint.
FreeNX does a new connection for each user on the fly.
It allows printer, file and sound sharing.
It works over SLOW connections.
It is cross platform.
It allows you to disconnect from a session and rejoin later.
It has a commercial version if you want support.
I can be used to connect a single app instead of a desktop.
If it doesn't do what you want then neither does Terminal Services.
Insert pithy comment here.
in cygwin it's ssh -Y, not ssh -x
I forget why, but that's the way it is.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
if not, take a look at Sun's Sun Ray Server Software (aka SRSS). it runs on linux now, but it costs $
we use it here (version 2 tho) and it works fine. you can be doing your thing, go to lunch, leave your apps running, come back (to another client even), and your apps are right there for you
vodka, straight up, thank you!
Don't use it myself, but looks interesting...
http://www.tarantella.com/
...then you should be trying to get away from terminal servers as well. The only justification I can see for using a terminal server is to have a centrally-managed Windows desktop. People do use terminal servers in a Unix/Linux evironment, but it's never made sense to me. There are better ways to share resources.
For whatever reason Citrix does not seem to want to make a Linux version of MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX. For those who think X11 is good enough try running it over a dial-up line sometime. Suddenly MPSU looks a lot better (it's also better than e.g. using Exceed on a Windows box on a LAN).
However, one of Citrix's competitors does support Linux. Have you looked into Tarantella? Might be what you are looking for.
-- Argel
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2685 I tried the following a few months ago then submitted the bug: wine termsrv.exe It failed because the termsrv program is Win2KServer or WinXPserver. Wine doesn't supply those Windows Version types to the program so the Windows termsrv program refuses to run. I was trying to run Wine using termsrv.exe because it would get around the various slow display emulations and bugs that mapping windows display actions into X commands run into. Then I could have all my windows programs on a linux server providing RDP without needing reverse engineered display mappings. Also, if it had worked, one could run it off of LOCALHOST giving flawless display in X. Maybe I need to debug the Win2KServer to see what the code is and hardcode it into a version of wine. That said I just took the easy course and run wine as an X-task from the server and deal with the failures and crashes.
If you want to eliminate MS Windows from your life, why do you want to connect to it over a terminal server?
Does anyone know of a (free) linux vnc client that does resolution scaling?
Using scroll bars to navigate around my remote desktop is a pain. I'd rather it was just shrunken into a smaller window, but you only seem to be able to do this on windows client->linux server, not vice versa.
I am also open to alternative windows server/linux client remote desktop solutions.
Ok here is your recipe:
Xvnc
Kde
Svncviewer (modified tightvnc java applet / program with ssl and thiner interface)
And optionally for ssl encryption (server side)
stunnel
And optionally for large systems
ldap / sasl for authentication
And optionally for internet access
Apache serving the svncviewer
And Optionally for network boot terminals
pxes
This allows a cheap low bandwidth internet or network boot terminal environment with linux. If you need some windows applications you can run wine (or a varient of it) or use rdesktop to run the application in a captured window and syncronize the password to windows through a automated process with a (I forget the name starts with L) file imported into AD.
Quick and easy setup of xvnc for terminal style access. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-72893-highlig ht-xvnc+terminal.html
Remote desktops on Linux have been a persistent and annoying problem for a few reasons. Two obvious answers people usually give are "Use VNC and "Use X Windows" but the heart of the problem is in the configuration and setup of these tools and it doesn't address the TS/Citrix and XDCMP method of starting up independent sessions for multiple users.
When I had to jump around from building to building in order to support developers using my software I worked out a solution that I was very happy with. I didn't have to install anything on the client and I had persistent desktop that I could access from anywhere--even from home via SSH tunnel.
The solution is to start up Xvnc but instead of running the usual X clients you start up XDM (or GDM or KDM). Additionally, but not required, enable the Java HTTP listener so you can use your desktop from any location.
When you turn on your computer VNC starts up in the background with a traditional XDM login screen. I preferred to use the lightweight and relatively secure XDM with XDCMP turned off. I think some versions of Red Hat have GDM if you enable the VNC service. You visit your computer with any Java-enabled web browser and are presented with a familiar X Windows login screen and can log in and do your thing.
The big limitation is that you can only support one user in this fashion. I presume that what you wanted is an application server a la Citrix Metaframe (or the less popular Microsoft Terminal Server in Application mode) when you have multiple users log in remotely to run applications on one machine. For that, you need multiple VNC sessions and it's not really easy to get the computer to understand that you are "user1" wanting to connect to a new desktop session as opposed to "user2" who wants to connect to an existing and already-running desktop session.
I am not sure what I was doing wrong on Windows 2000 Server but I was never able to reconnect with a session that was supposedly still running. I deduced that the session timed out after 30 minutes (admins don't like zombie Terminal Server sessions, naturally).
I'm going out on a limb but I suppose it might be an interesting project to develop a smart VNC server session hosting thinger--users are presented with a login screen and given the option to connect to an existing session if it already exists or a new session if one doesn't. I think running VNC off of inetd along with screen number randomization is a good start. I'm excited to see if anyone knows if such a product exists already.
I guess it's slightly off-topic but if all you want to do is connect to a Windows Terminal Server from Linux you can use an open-source project called "rdesktop." It implements the RDP protocol fairly well but has big trouble with keyboard mapping and that's an entirely differnet topic.
Kris
Kriston
I'm not sure if you want to connect linux--linux or not, but assuming you do, it's all built in.
All the computers here in my home and in my office are basic, basic installs of debian. Open gdm, pick 'xdmcp chooser', and you'll get to see all (1) computers serving X. So, we all have homedirs and applications on the one box.
It's not the lightest client since each box has a local OS on a local drive, but it's plenty good enough. Maintenance and DR are a breeze...
All the above answers are very appropriate, if your not planning to run windows applications on that same server.
.
Before all the trolls and flames kick in do allow me to illuminate my thread a little here.
Recently a client asked if it was possible to provide their corporate accounts package to their clients in a mechanism that enabled the software and data to reside at corporate head offices whilst clients accessed them remotely over the internet.
I investigated Citrix, Windows Terminal Services, X11 with KDE and Wine, Netraverse Win4Lin Terminal server and FreeNX.
As this was to be a corporate installation using Windows software the items to consider were
1. cost
2. on going support from Software supplier
3. Time and Effort to build the server and configure the network and services
4. Ability to rebuild the environment quickly
Looking at these issues I realised that Citrix was not immediately cost effective. As far as on going support from the software supplier went I was only assured support ( dont jump on EULA and other threads here ! ) for windows platforms. I could buy a off the shelf dell poweredge with 5 terminal services licenses for under 900 ukpounds. I could rebuild the environment from the ground up quickly in both unix and windows.
So this left me with Windows Terminal services as the most cost effective "initial" implementation. However file and mail services could be provided by a debian ( samba/Exim ) mix which would provide file access and file management tools whilst enabling the Windows Terminal Server to connect with domain authentication where appropriate.
Overall the set up and deliver time was short and the ongoing support is now minimal as to rebuild the windows box I will only require the recovery CD and I can duplicate the Debian box freely.
Theres been mention that WTS is slow compared to Citrix though ive yet to see any complaints from end users.
If I have one gripe it is that when the Dell was sold it was misleading to me that I would require seperate Terminal Service Licenses
The real issue here is the "lag" between complete reliable windows support under Linux ( via Netraverse ) and the continuing undocumented and shared product changes that MS put into windows which impacts on Software developers.
Other issues I had was a concern that there is no guaruantee that a Windows Developer may not in the future utilise a DLL or COM object which is provided for or supported in many "emulation" packages. This risk alone is enough to justify using Windows TS for the time being.
I do note however that the software developers in question are showing the interest in providing Linux based Applications since the platform is rapidly maturing thanks to the development in KDE, Gnome and even to a lesser extent osX.
So thats my two pence. I would love to use a complete Open Source environment but it was not a simple problem and did not deserve a simple response.
And thats why Firecrackers and kittens don't mix.