Ubuntu and UserLinux to Combine?

An anonymous reader submits "With all the noise about Ubuntu, and no sarge release in sight, we haven't heard much from UserLinux in recent times. Even Bruce Perens has admitted that the "lack of a Debian release is becoming a critical problem". Now, Ubuntu has invited UserLinux to combine forces. More distro consolidation -- without a corporate buyout in sight!"

Comments

server versus desktop

[bcrowell]

Although I run generic Debian on my desktop, my perception is that Debian is really meant for two things: (1) a distro for use on servers, (2) a generic basis for other people to build customized Linux distros on top of. Given that perception, I don't really see how the slow release schedule is "a critical problem." People using it on servers don't care if it has the latest prerelease version of KDE, they just want it to be stable, and they want security patches (which they get). People using it as a foundation for their own distro are going to build their distro after updating whatever they think needs updating.

Another perception of mine, which may be totally incorrect, is that UserLinux is a project that failed. Would any Slashdotters who actually use UserLinux like to share their counterexamples?

It's like the joke that goes, "I don't have a drinking problem. I drink. I fall down. No problem." Generic Debian is doing fine on servers. People who run non-x86 architectures are presumably happy that Debian is continuing to support them. Ubuntu is apparently doing fine on the x86 desktop. Many desktop users (including me) run testing, not stable, and therefore don't have a problem with the slow time scale for releasing the next stable.

So what's the problem?

Re:Makes sense

[ultrabot]

I think there's a natural synergy here with Bruce Perens being an "industry insider" and Shuttleworth having deep pockets.

It's not just about the personas - the ideas of Ubuntu and UserLinux overlap by 80+%, so this would make perfect sense.

I actually asked Bruce about this a while back but he didn't reply at that time.

Let's face it, it would be a marriage made in $OTHERWORLD_OF_CHOICE.

my $.02 worth

[suezz]

I think it would be a great idea - I tried ubuntu and now it is all I use - hardware detection is second to none - can't wait till next release - got my apt-get ready - I hope unbutu sticks around for a long time - I plan on not doing another iso install ever - use debian on my sparc sun blade 100 at work - will never do another sun cdrom upgrade on that one either.

if ubuntu puts out a sparc edition I will get it on my sunblade in a snap.

Re:Ubuntu the new Debian

[xeno-cat]

I don't think this is such a good idea. Debian is a good base because it is stable. primarily, but also has a massive bredth of packages. The "Debian based" distributions generally add value to Debian by providing more limited but current set of packages by pulling from the testing branches and doing their own integration. They also target some niche. This is why Ubuntu has value. It targets the desktop.

Debian does not really target anything, and that is good because it makes for a rich base to start from.

What would the value add be for basing a distribution on Ubuntu?

Kind Regards

Re:It must be a really slow news day.

[mjg59]

We're trying to help.

That's an interesting thing to say. You haven't posted to debian-project or debian-devel this year. There are only three Debian bug reports mentioning Userlinux - two are by the same person and turned out to be due to a bug in Vmware, and the third is from a Userlinux developer who wants some extra fields in the default Samba config file. He didn't supply a patch. In fact, I can't find a single case of a patch being submitted with a note stating that it came from Userlinux.

So, what are you doing to help? What solid technical improvements have Userlinux made to Debian? Will the money earned by offering certifications and support go into improving security support in Debian?

I'm already seeing Ubuntu gain adoption and support by commercial vendors. They've also put a great deal of code and money into Debian. What real, tangiable advantage will Userlinux provide over them?

A desperate plea to them both...

[gt_swagger]

I don't want to stray too far off topic, but they will probably go over how they do things and package their distros... this is a great chance for them to make a subtle but important change... PLEASE embrace LSB and try to make it stronger. If Linux could have a strong and comprehensive core platform it would solve ALOT of problems. LSB in it's current form is very very weak. I think many distros make it optional... only distro I've seen in awhile with it as an upfront option is Mandrake. A brief rundown of things a strong LSB would help: - Finding things. Where did distro X stick important app Y? No more! - Driver support. No need to greatly complicate engineering a driver for Linux by accounting for the various ways distros place and configure things. - Ease of use. Take a Linux newbie and swap distros on them. Odds are they won't be happy when some things are mysteriously gone or put elsewhere or changed around. I realize Linux by it's very nature tends to have endless variations... but driver support and familiarity would essentially "force by choice" many distros to comply if they want added userbase and drivers, etc.

Re:Ubuntu, as a desktop and a server

[AvitarX]

I strongly disagree.

I tried to use Ubuntu as a server and it was disasterous. We have a heavy use "workgroup" server at work that needs to run Netatalk 2.x (1.6.x did not play nice with OSX). I had to apt a whole bunch of packeges to get stuff ready, and some of them were from debian even.

In the end I was unable to get netatalk to compile, but I found an apt source for it (jones.dk). I install it and all is fine for about 12 hours, and then files turn into folders before peoples eyes. And everything someone clicked on would turn into the same folder. So someone decided to delete the duplicate and we lost it obviously.

Long stoy short, I went back to my Mandrake image where netatalk was hand compiled, but I am dying to have a distro where it comes from a package and I am not stuck with stuff in /usr/local and a custom init script. It is just Ubuntu is definatly not that distro.

The oft berrated Mandrake has been far better for me.

Also the only thing I do without the console is adding printers (never quite made sense to me, and they kept changing the system).

debian

[XO]

If it wasn't for the fact that I would have to spend a couple of entire days fixing a different distribution if i install it, every day I use my Debian box, is every day that I get more and more pissed off about how stupid it is.

apt-get sounded great, but if you don't use "unstable" or newer, you have basically unusable software, if you need to keep up to date on anything. And the package dependencies are a living farking hell. I love "apt-get install *someprogram*" and it tells me it needs to download 300MB of completely unrelated junk to make something work.