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Cable Equal Access Case Goes to Supreme Court

DCTooTall writes "The FCC has ruled that Cable High-Speed Internet is an Information Service, and therefore not subject to the same equal access regulations that govern DSL. Brand-X Networks sued the FCC for equal access to the Cable Networks and won. The FCC appealed the decision and next Tuesday the case goes to the Supreme Court. The Telco's have repeatedly used the current FCC stance on Cable Broadband in their fight to get the same monopoly on DSL. This case has the potential to not only open the Cable networks to competition, but also prevent the Telco's from further attempts on limiting DSL options."

23 of 351 comments (clear)

  1. That'll learn 'em. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    DSL is theft anyway. I don't know what insane trickery is involved in allowing voice AND data go over the same medium, but I don't like it. It smacks of devil-worship.

    1. Re:That'll learn 'em. by charon69 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, time for like my 3rd comment on Slashdot ever...

      I realize you were joking, but, just in case nobody knows, here's how DSL works in a nut shell.

      Your typical POTS line (Plain Old Telephone System) is just an analog connection to the phone company (yes, this is a generalization). The human voice and ear can only cover certain ranges of frequencies, so there's really no point in attempting to do voice communication beyond a frequency limit. But the higher frequencies can still go across the line just fine. As such, a DSL modem just modulates the data to correspond to frequencies higher than anything that you can say or hear and puts it on the same line as your voice traffic. To further ensure that there's no overlap between your voice traffic and the data modulations, you put a low pass filter on all your analog phone lines to make sure that they can't interfere with the data portion. At the phone company, they just strip the frequencies back into two separate systems and demodulate the data to get the 1s and 0s back.

      Yes, actually, I do work at a company that makes this stuff. Why do you ask?

    2. Re:That'll learn 'em. by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


      Well, time for like my 3rd comment on Slashdot ever...
      Liar! That was your 6th comment on Slashdot! I demand the mod strip of you of all karma! You will be taken outside the city walls at dawn where you shall be buried up to your shoulders when you will then be stoned until dead!

      Or maybe not.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
  2. Competition by mfh · · Score: 5, Insightful
    What cable competition really means:
    • Better prices
    • Better service
    • More jobs
    • Alternative services
    • Fresh thinking
    • Offspring markets
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    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Competition by Mercano · · Score: 5, Funny
      What cable companies want you to think competition really means:
      • Communism
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      #include <signature.h>
    2. Re:Competition by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Communism CANNOT COEXIST with competition.

      That's only if you use the correct definition. What the word has apparently come to mean is that the goverment regulating businesses in any way (even forcing the very un-communism quality of competition) is communism. That is a modern trick. Take a word with negative connotations, assign it to something you don't like even if not appropriate, then watch as everyone begins to associate the word and the thing.

  3. the real problem by eobanb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    is the FCC. They started this new philosophy of "let's deregulate, and all our problems will go away," and look what happened. The media sources are consolidating, and the telcos are consolidating. Did the FCC WANT this to happen? Sometimes I think so, since it seems so damn obvious that it would. Why would you EVER want to monopolise the cable and telephone lines? How is DSL NOT an information service? The FCC has to recognise that whether it's IP over coax or fibre or phone line or WHATEVER, it's still internet service. They've just really turned the wrong way in the last few years, and it's hurting us all.

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    1. Re:the real problem by igjeff · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, you're suffering from, apparently, the same lack of understanding that the FCC is.

      There are two services in play, here.

      The first is DSL or cable modem service, which are clearly telecommunications services. These are the actual DSL or cable modem signalling over the wire.

      Then there's the Internet Access overtop of the DSL or cable modem service. This is correctly classified by the FCC as an information service. Their problem (and apparently yours as well) is that they/you don't realize that DSL and cable modem service isn't *inherently* Internet service. DSL has, quite successfully, been used for non-Internet services, and cable modems could easily be used in the same ways. The FCC's stance on DSL and cable modem service, however, has made most of these uses uneconomical. A more reasonable stance, that takes into consideration of the layered nature of networking technologies, would much more realistically align the regulatory environment with the real world...both technically, and wrt competitiveness. (Internet service is competitive, DSL transport service is notsomuch).

      Jeff

  4. "Naked Cable" by jm92956n · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If the cable companies are forced to open their networks, it would hopefully allow one to eventually obtain "naked cable." I'd like cable internet access, but the price for non-subscribers is $20 over their already inflated price.

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    1. Re:"Naked Cable" by justforaday · · Score: 4, Funny

      Doesn't your cable provider offer Cinemax?

      --
      I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  5. Competetion is good by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hope it happens. It'd be nice to finally be able to get better than 2mbit down and 256kbit up.

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    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  6. Re:Competition is good by DCTooTall · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Technology exists for the Telco's to improve DSL, such as ADSL2 and ADSL2+... not to mention Reach Extended ADSL.... The big problem is the Telco's have been slow to upgrade or really take full advantage of the available technology. They have repeatedly gone to the FCC crying that Cable doesn't need to share their lines, and that being forced to abide by the Equal Access rules it is holding them back. As a result, there have been many cases (such as the recent Anti-muni FCC ruling, or even Bellsouth's recent "Naked DSL" victory) in which a Bell has used the fact that Cable doesn't have to share in order to have a ruling in their favor, allowing them more in the way of monopoly control over DSL technology.

  7. Re:In Plain English? by Ironsides · · Score: 4, Informative

    Local telephone companies (who own the wires) are required by law to sell allow other companies access to their wires (whereby the other company can supply local service) at below market costs. Sometimes around or below how much it costs them to maintain the wires as well. This way we can have competition between multiple local phone companies on the same set of wires. This was extended to DSL some years ago.

    Now, Cable companies (who sometimes own the wires and sometimes don't, in my are the county officially owns the wires and we still only have one cable company) are not required to open up their cable lines to competing companies.

    --
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  8. Re:government involvement? by NormalVisual · · Score: 4, Informative

    In almost all cases, yes, there was some form of government subsidy, whether it be by allowing only one cable company for a given locality, or giving free right-of-way for the lines to be run, or other such consideration.

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  9. Techinal Problems by steve6534 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While this could be a good thing for customers there are several technical considerations to look at. 1. There is not enough upstream bandwidth in a typical cable plant for several providers to provide their own service over a seperate cmts. 2. If multiple service providers try to offer their brand of "service" over the same cmts there wouldn't be a difference in service from what there is today (Except content) If one provider tried to sell a higher bandwidth package it would affect customers from all different providers on the same cmts. 3. Who pay's to maintain, power, and house the cmts ? The way that dsl ir provided (Each ISP installing their own DSLAM) works great because there is a seperation of where the last mile to the customer terminates - The only leased telco facilty is the copper from the service address to the CO. If service providers had to share the same DSLAM and had a limit of bandwidth that could be provided dsl would be a huge disaster.

    1. Re:Techinal Problems by BumbaCLot · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wrong, they actually do.
      Not all ISPs have to supply DSLAMs to share DSL with telcos. I work for an ISP and we sell Verizon and SBC DSL. We are charged for lineshares by both companies. With Verizon we provide them with DLCI numbers and have static IPs for our customers. With SBC, their Redback routers look at the username and route to our system based on that.

  10. Interesting trade-off... by Giant+Space+Hamster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The FCC is basically offering the cable companies a de facto monopoly on cable internet in order to ensure that more people can get connected and the size of the network is increased. After all, if the cable company has a monopoly, the only way it can really grow is to hook up more people.

    But if, on the other hand, other companies are permitted to use the network, the cable companies may feel that expanding their network is not worth the cost, thus preventing people from ever getting high-speed internet.

    Personally, I think it's a relatively hard decision to make. Allowing the monopoly screws over those people who already can get cable internet, but offers the greatest incentive to extend access to more people. Not allowing the monopoly gives cheaper prices to those with cable internet, but pretty much ensures that the networks won't get expanded, especially to more rural areas.

    Perhaps a compromise of a limited-time monopoly would be best. Cable companies get a 5-year monopoly on new networks, and afterwards must open them up to competition.

  11. DSL was guaranteed in the Constitution by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Funny

    Here, let me download you a copy.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  12. I hate subjects by weavermatic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I always hate how aprtment complexs always try to tell people that only one type of broadband service is available in their buildings. Liek where I live now, they told me I would have to go through Qwest. Meaning I would have to have Qwest phone service plus shitty Qwest DSL. Instead I called Speakeasy, had Covad come out and install some sort of bypass so I dont' need a phone line, and now i have 6mbit down 768 up with tons of extras for $100 a month, and I can resell the bandwidth on a wireless access point. Screw telcos.

  13. Is the cable company a common carrier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The deal with a common carrier is that a common carrier has to accept anyone's traffic. ie. If the railroad ships wheat for company X then they can not refuse to ship wheat for company Y.

    Cable did not start as a common carrier. It started with small providers grabbing signals off the air and stuffing them into the cable to sell to their subscribers. Since they weren't charging the TV stations to get their signals to the subscribers, they weren't acting as common carriers. They weren't charging people to get their signals somewhere.

    Telegraph started out as common carrier in that if they sent messages for company X, they had to send messages for company Y.

    Telephone is a common carrier because they were forced to be one. I think that will happen to the cable companies too. The minute they started dabbling in internet services and telephone, they opened the gate and they won't be able to shut it.

  14. I Don't Get It by bleckywelcky · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The FCC is supposedly there to help the public out by regulating phones, internet, RF, etc ... Why would they appeal this sort of thing? It should be blatently obvious to anyone that opening up cable lines to outside companies is in the public interest (even if the cable companies gripe and do a half-ass job at it). I mean, sure, they can defend themselves in the first suit just to defend themselves. But why appeal it? This is ridiculous. The operation of the cable companies as monopolies is obvious ... with their erroneous fees here and there, their slow service, the whole "wait 60 days until you get service again", bundling services so you can't get internet unless you have cable, etc, etc. None of this stuff would be as bad as it currently is if there was true competition, because they would be out of business at the drop of a hat! I think the FCC positions need to be elected or something, so at least there is SOME pressure to serve the public interest.

  15. Re:Competition is good by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Having both, I can say that they both have their advantages.

    DSL - static IP address, more upstream bandwidth, liberal use policy

    Cable modem - more downstream bandwidth, and in a few cases about 2 hops closer to key backbones

    Would I give up either? Not unless I can no longer afford to. They're both down up to 3 days a month, and thankfully those 3 days haven't overlapped yet. Plus, since I use a real linux router, and not some lameass linksys piece of shit, I can make use of both simultaneously. Not just failover, mind you, but round-robin connection marking through both. Can I download a single large file, making use of both? Not yet...

    But supposing I scrape together enough talent to patch wget, I might be able to download a piece of the file over each, simultaneously.

    So, let's just stop with the cable vs. dsl bullshit already, folks. Whichever you can get, or if both, whichever suits you, is best. It wasn't so long ago that we were all struggling along on 28.8k modems anyway.

  16. Sillyness by Sc00ter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is silly.. if you don't like the cable company, work to change it.

    EVERY cable company must have a contract with the local city/town to operate.

    I worked at a public access TV station in a small town during this. They are usually 3-7 year contracts, the cable comittee is usually made up of people from the town/city.

    Our managed to get MediaOne (at the time) to give free cable modems to all the schools, as well as free cable service, on top of what they were required to give the public access TV station. They also had to agree to offer high speed access across the entire town in 2 years or less.

    It came VERY close to dumping them and going with Adelphia.. if that happened then everybody in the the town would switch to Adelphia and MediaOne (now Comcast) would have been OUT.

    Also, you can get Earthlink service over cable via Comcast..