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Fermilab Reports Dark Energy Not Needed

An anonymous reader writes "A Fermilab press release reports that the expansion of the universe may be explainable without the need for dark energy or a cosmological constant. Apparently, ripples from inflation in the early universe may account for the observed expansion rate of the universe."

27 of 416 comments (clear)

  1. But what about the Horizon problem? by mr100percent · · Score: 5, Interesting
    But what about the Horizon problem?

    From an earlier /.-linked article 13 things that do not make sense:

    The horizon problem

    OUR universe appears to be unfathomably uniform. Look across space from one edge of the visible universe to the other, and you'll see that the microwave background radiation filling the cosmos is at the same temperature everywhere. That may not seem surprising until you consider that the two edges are nearly 28 billion light years apart and our universe is only 14 billion years old.

    Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, so there is no way heat radiation could have travelled between the two horizons to even out the hot and cold spots created in the big bang and leave the thermal equilibrium we see now.

    This "horizon problem" is a big headache for cosmologists, so big that they have come up with some pretty wild solutions. "Inflation", for example.

    You can solve the horizon problem by having the universe expand ultra-fast for a time, just after the big bang, blowing up by a factor of 1050 in 10-33 seconds. But is that just wishful thinking? "Inflation would be an explanation if it occurred," says University of Cambridge astronomer Martin Rees. The trouble is that no one knows what could have made that happen.

    So, in effect, inflation solves one mystery only to invoke another. A variation in the speed of light could also solve the horizon problem - but this too is impotent in the face of the question "why?" In scientific terms, the uniform temperature of the background radiation remains an anomaly.

    "A variation in the speed of light could solve the problem, but this too is impotent in the face of the question 'why?'"

    Also, in the same article, Dark Energy is discussed:
    9 Dark energy

    IT IS one of the most famous, and most embarrassing, problems in physics. In 1998, astronomers discovered that the universe is expanding at ever faster speeds. It's an effect still searching for a cause - until then, everyone thought the universe's expansion was slowing down after the big bang. "Theorists are still floundering around, looking for a sensible explanation," says cosmologist Katherine Freese of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. "We're all hoping that upcoming observations of supernovae, of clusters of galaxies and so on will give us more clues."

    One suggestion is that some property of empty space is responsible - cosmologists call it dark energy. But all attempts to pin it down have fallen woefully short. It's also possible that Einstein's theory of general relativity may need to be tweaked when applied to the very largest scales of the universe. "The field is still wide open," Freese says.

    1. Re:But what about the Horizon problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the universe is 14 billion years old, and the edges are nearly 28 billion light years apart, what's the problem? It expands at relativistic speeds 14 billion years one way, 14 billion years the other. 14*2 = 28. So unless they're stating this wrong, shouldn't that be the way that it works?

    2. Re:But what about the Horizon problem? by bperkins · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But what about the Horizon problem?

      The work in this article assumes that inflation is right. People don't like inflation because they don't know how it happend, but something like it had to have happened in the early universe.

    3. Re:But what about the Horizon problem? by digitalchinky · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is all theory, but say you could instantly travel 14 billion light years to the horizon (as seen from earth)

      What would you see? Another horizon a further 14 billion light years distant? My personal feeling is yes, and that the age of the universe is wrong - I don't subscribe to the big bang theory, relativity, or any other convenient explanations for this 'anomaly'. Nor do I believe in God.

      I may be marked as troll, but I suspect there are many others with a similar view.

    4. Re:But what about the Horizon problem? by Y2 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      But what about the Horizon problem?

      Inflation solves the horizon problem. According to this latest calculation (see TFA), inflation also leaves some UBLW (unimaginably long wavlength) gravitational waves that account for the apparent acceleration of the general expansion, without the shamefully ad-hoc introduction of dark energy.

      --
      "But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
    5. Re:But what about the Horizon problem? by WaterBreath · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A few things:

      According to "accepted" theories of expansion, there is no epicenter. All space is expanding equally in all directions. So wherever you are standing, everything will appear to expand outward away from you.

      Because of that, things farther away from you will be receeding from you faster, because every extra bit of space between you and them means an extra bit of expansion, and so an extra bit of recession speed. As the theory goes, superluminal recession speeds are possible because the distant objects are not actually moving relative to the stationary frame of space in their vivinity. Space itself is changing shape, and the "motion" we see is just a side-effect.

      Supposedly, there is a certain distance, which can be measured starting at any given point, beyond which every everything is receeding from the reference point faster than light, and so will never be visible from that point. This is called the Hubble distance. Related is the Hubble constant, which is a measurement of change in velocity of expansion per unit distance from the reference point. (Not the odd way to measure acceleration. Normal acceleration is m/s/s, or m/s^2, but this is m/s/m, or just 1/s, which is 1Hz. Weird, eh?) The Hubble constant is under contention, I think, and the value of the Hubble distance depends on the value of the constant.

      Anyway, this stuff is kind of where the idea of Star Trek's "warp drive" comes from (at least in the more recent series). If it were possible to create some sort of device that could cause the space in front of a ship to contract and the space behind to expand proportionally, the ship could move without moving through space. It would be space itself changing shape around the ship that causes it to "move". And hence the speed at which you could move would be limited only by the speed at which you could channel energy into the expansion and contraction of space. Of course, this might just happen to be limited by the speed of light as well, so maybe superluminal speed still wouldn't be possible!

      But if these guys' new idea is right, then none of that matters. =)

    6. Re: But what about the Horizon problem? by digitalchinky · · Score: 2, Interesting
  2. Difference? by Ender_Wiggin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can someone tell me, what's the difference between Dark Matter and Dark Energy?

  3. Re:Nothing for you to see here. by digismack · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It doesn't matter.

    --
    http://www.hollowdepth.com
  4. string theory Nova by Fox_1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nova did a great piece on the all of physics (a lot on the universe and big focus on Quantum Mechanics and String Theory). It's pretty good if you are trying to find commonplace explanations of some of the theories the article just mentions and doesn't explain.

    --
    The rock, the vulture, and the chain
    1. Re:string theory Nova by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Speaking of errors and misconceptions.. we still know very little about what caused the Big Bang (or even whether there really was one, as such). Inflationary models such as Linde's eternal inflation are one kind of explanation, but there are many others, including from diverse theories of quantum gravity. We don't know if inflation played a role in the Big Bang, or just after it.

      The proposal being discussed in this thread also has no implications for the search for the Higgs. We don't know whether the Higgs is the inflaton, and this proposal sheds no new light on that question. Perhaps subsequent observations might, but they won't necessarily be dark energy observations. And in any case, the LHC is likely to just see the Higgs before any cosmological models of inflation can tell us much more about it.

      The universe is not very possibly 2 dimensional. It is probably at least 4 dimensional, and maybe higher. In M-theory braneworld scenarios, our unvierse is (not "is attached to") a 3-brane (not a 2-brane). And no, open string don't have to be attached to branes; they can be.

  5. Re:Space beyond the edge of Universe by ari_j · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes, there is space beyond the cosmic horizon. The horizon on Earth is just the farthest you can see because of the curvature of the planet's surface. The planet keeps going beyond the horizon - the horizon is a function of the observer. The same applies to the universe, although I am not knowledgeable enough to tell you if the cosmic horizon is the limit of what we can see because of the distance, because of a higher-dimensional curvature of the universe, or because of something else.

  6. Gravity leaks by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've read another hypothesis recently: that gravity slowly "leaks" into other dimensions so that over long distances it's attractive force diminishes, and that is why the universe is flying apart. The average distances between the galaxies has now reached a threashold where the leakage makes a big difference, giving the appearence of a relatively sudden expansion speedup.

    1. Re:Gravity leaks by XanC · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even if gravity were zero, the universe would then expand at a constant rate. But it appears to be accelerating, implying some kind of negative gravity.

  7. Re:How did the ripples get there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting


    Let's say we've reached the edge of the universe, what happens when we step beyond that boundary? What is out there that would possibly hold back further expansion of our universe?

    If you step beyond that boundary, the universe becomes couple of feet longer. You are part of the universe. The 'boundary' is because matter is moving only at a finite speed and beyond that boundary, no matter has reached yet!

  8. Seriously now by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The universe is expanding at an accelerating rate not because of some dark matter but because of the gravitational attraction of other universes in the local vicinity of our own. sheeshh why do folks want to believe we are special with our own little private universe.

    Just like at various times in history, humans believed that our tribe was the center of the universe, then the earth, then the sun, and now no one wants to think "outside the box" so to speak, and so they invent dark matter to account for observations that don't match up.

  9. Wish I understood Alpha by purduephotog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Saw this article a few days ago and it talked about Alpha- raised all sorts of questions for me (being a non-enlightened individual) such as

    a) What are the implications if Alpha is 'decaying' with time?
    b) What are the implications if alpha is variable with graviational mass?
    c) If enough photons were gathered in one location, would they have a 'gravitational' effect... and would that affect any known 'constants'?

    Tantalizing and interesting, but I know I lack the education to understand all of the ramifications.

  10. Re:How did the ripples get there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You still need something to push against in order to create those ripples. Unlike vector thrust which only requires a directed force, a ripple requires a reflection of an energy wave.

    Let's take a very simple example of a wave in water. It has a wave front and the energy contained in the wave form continues in a straight line until deflected or it runs out of energy due to friction. The only way to get a ripple is to reflect the energy back upon itself (like hitting a solid barrier). But even then, some energy is transmitted to the solid object because the reflected waves do not contain the same amount of energy as the original waves.

    So in space, the huge burst of energy at the time of the Big Bang generated ripples, but what was reflecting the energy such that there were ripples, and how much of that energy was transferred to that "external" universe? If we can measure the intensity of the pre-ripple energy and compare it to the energy of the ripples, we can judge how much energy was lost to that "other" universe. But what is that external universe and how can it absorb that energy?

    Ripples in our space mean a breakdown in the conservation of momentum, N's 2nd Law. It means that there is a net loss in energy for our single universe. However if we postulate that there is another universe that was able to absorb that lost energy we can trust that our natural laws are still in effect.

  11. Is Dark Energy the New N-Ray? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    See http://www.rexresearch.com/blondlot/nrays.htm and http://www.spectrometer.org/path/nrays.html for details on N-Rays.

    In 1903 a French professor of physics, Rene Blondlot thought he had found a new form of radiation. He and many others did experiments and published papers on these new rays until an American physicist, R.W. Wood, came by and proved that N-Rays did not exist. Some what like cold fusion, but in a less media crazy time.

    It would be funny if dark energy was another example of too little data and too big a theory.

  12. Interesting? by MustardMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seriously, how did this get a mod as Interesting? He bitches about the arrogance of humans thinking we are the center of everything, then is INSANELY arrogant in stating his own theory as if it were an indisputable fact, while providing NO evidence to support it.

    The whole POINT of the term "dark energy" is to say "there's something funny here and we don't know what it is". I'd say that's one regulation shitload less arrogant than camel pilot's claim.

    By the way, I'm far from a cosmologist, but the poster clearly has no grasp on the difference between dark matter and dark energy, and therefore has proven he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

  13. What if Dark Energy Wasn't Required by nimblebrain · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's a decent amount of evidence that has been mounting over the past few years that a large component of redshift is in fact intrinsic, i.e. not attributed to the Doppler effect.

    In some ways, it seems related to the much-glossed-over "K Effect" of a few decades ago, where it was found that bright, bright blue stars seemed to be systematically redshifted.

    Researchers like M. B. Bell are of the opinion that the intrinsic redshifts are superimposed on a Big Bang flow (reducing the actual velocity we should be measuring). Others, like Arp, believe that the Hubble Flow is an illusion, and that the universe is actually relatively static once you take away the intrinsic redshifts.

    David Russell's paper that just came out supports either view, and shows that other explanations (like Tully-Fisher Relationship errors or rotational velocities) are far too small to account for the large discrepancies.

    (Some more hubbub on the topic.)

    In either case, intrinsic redshifts will take a lot of pressure off researchers to find 'dark energy', because the discrepancies of speed/distance are much reduced.

    Then, perhaps, we can stop looking for something that isn't there? :)

    --
    Binary geeks can count to 1,023 on their fingers :)
    1. Re:What if Dark Energy Wasn't Required by nimblebrain · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's the summary of the story that's been put together so far :)

      The redshift they describe is 'cosmological redshift'. It is true that it would be technically incorrect to call it a Doppler redshift if the currently-held accelerating universe view is actually true.

      There are Doppler redshifts on top of this as well - rotations and movement add to or subtract from the cosmological redshift.

      What the papers I quote have been finding is that cosmological redshift (whether Doppler or not) isn't enough.

      Intrinsic redshifts are statistically important. They do not, however, get rid of the cosmological component.

      The current 'accepted' value of the Hubble Constant, which reflects the age of the universe, is 72 km/s/Mpc, giving us an age of about 13 billion years.

      Taking the instrinic redshift from that gives us a Hubble Constant of 50-60 km/s/Mpc, which gives us an age of about 18 billion years, so that theorists might have time to deal with the 'vegetable soup' phenomenon, to quote a sound bite.

      (Looking back to 1-2 billion years after the Big Bang, the universe still doesn't look very young. Of course, the revised age will also alter back the ages of some of the objects.)

      There's some reason to believe that even the remaining cosmological component may not actually represent expansion, and it was presented in one of Edwin Hubble's later lectures, "The Observational Approach to Cosmology".

      The premise, basically, is that a redshift would give a corresponding decrease in photon density, if due to expansion, but it doesn't.

      We'll see what happens over the next few years, though :)

      Thanks for the link!

      --
      Binary geeks can count to 1,023 on their fingers :)
  14. Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    [1]
    When his own Theory of General Relativity clearly showed that the universe should expand or contract, Einstein chose to introduce a new ingredient into his theory.
    [2]
    His "cosmological constant" represented a mass density of empty space that drove the universe to expand at an ever-increasing rate.
    [3]
    "We realized that you simply need to add this new key ingredient, the ripples of spacetime generated during the epoch of inflation, to Einstein's General Relativity to explain why the universe is accelerating today," Riotto says

  15. Would this mean the universe is closed? by JoeGee · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or do physicists still think everything is doomed to continue flying apart until the heat death of the universe in the distant future? Is the Big Crunch back in the picture?

    -Joe G.

    --

    Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
    1. Re:Would this mean the universe is closed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      My impression is that these guys are trying to preserve an old theory (inflation) that was recently discredited by adding a new, kludgy "unseen ripple" idea to the theory.

      You're wrong. Inflation has not been discredited; in fact, it now has good experimental support (WMAP observed the acoustic peaks in the angular power spectrum of the CMBR). These guys are trying to do the opposite: explain the observations without introducing a new idea (some kind of new "dark energy field"); rather, they are arguing for a previously unnoticed implication for the existing, standard inflation theory.

      The latest perterbations of M-Theory have some elegant and intriguing explanations for the origins of the big bang

      M-theory? Don't make me laugh. M-theory can produce about a billion different scenarios for the Big Bang, including most of the inflationary scenarios that you were just deriding. (Most M-theory models of cosmology include inflation, you know.) We have no way of narrowing things down to get M-theory to predict which one of these speculative scenarios may apply to our universe, we have no evidence for all of the new physics that M-theory requires (strings, extra dimensions, supersymmetry, etc.)

      If the CMBR spectrum and dark energy can be simultaneously described by introducing one simple new field (the inflaton), parsimony gives that the win over M-theory. And when you get down to it, inflation is not inelegant either. Now, if there is some actual experimental evidence for M-theory, which doesn't also support existing theories, we might have a reason to take M-theory cosmology seriously.

      How much money do they want to "test" this crazy idea, anyway? Is this really a productive way to spend our research tax dollars?

      The tests of this theory would be done anyway, because they test all the competing theories at the same time.
    2. Re:Would this mean the universe is closed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Inflation predicted that the expansion would be slowing by now, not accelerating.

      Inflation is largely a theory of the early universe. It is not generally considered to have anything to say, one way or the other, about the later expansion (accelerating or not). The authors of this paper think that inflation does influence the later stages of the expansion, but even if it didn't, the need for dark energy does not in any way imply that inflation's predictions have failed; a later accelerating expansion is in no way incompatible with early-universe inflation.
      Not ones that produce mathematically sound models.

      Ha. You name it, M-theory can produce it. It's got braneworld scenarios, pre-Big Bang string cosmology, eternal inflation, and a pile of other models, dimensional decompactification, and a whole pile of other proposals floating around, with no way of telling which is better than any other.
      It doesn't provide any clue to the cause of the big bang

      It's not supposed to. Inflation is a theory of what happens after the Big Bang. Unless you subscribe to Lidne's eternal inflation, which is a theory of both.
      and the conditions that could cause inflation aren't explained

      Wow, what a hypocrite. You claim that the conditions that could cause inflation aren't explained, and then turn around and promote the ekpyrotic scenario. I hate to break it to you, but that scenario doesn't explain the conditions that could cause a Big Bang. It just ASSUMES the existence of branes of the right dimensionality, hitting each other in the right way, with the right gauge fields coupled to them, in a cold, flat, and empty space, in a state close to a BPS state, and so on and so forth. This is no more elegant than postulating an inflaton potential (and is in fact more ad hoc, as there are at least various plausible candidates for an inflation that make specific predictions for its potential). Inflation is in fact very elegant, because inflation can occur in a way that's largely independent of the initial state, rather than having to make all kinds of ad-hoc assumptions. The only "freeness" in the theory is the functional form of the potential, and there are plenty of theories that make
      concrete predictions for that.
      And, once again, I remind you that even many (and I would say most) string theorists support inflation. It's just extremely easy to have an extra scalar lying around in your theory -- be it a conservative exension to the Standard Model, a GUT, string/M-theory, or whatnot -- that acts as an inflaton. In fact, it can be hard to produce interesting new theories that don't have inflaton fields running around. The moduli fields in string theory are a good example. Even among string theorists, the more exotic proposals like ekpyrotic, PBB, etc. are regarded as extremely speculative, not as something that holds any real answers as yet.
  16. It's not dark matter... by Biomechanical · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's fire.

    In the beginning was nothing right? Then a Bang.

    I'm thinking about this Bang. Nothing, not absence of something nothing, but Nothing. Nothing exploding.

    Fire. An explosion is fire, burning combustible materials and releasing hot gases that expand.

    In the middle of Nothing, there was an Explosion.

    Is it possible that our universe is bounded, instead of Nothing, by Anti-Energy? The quantum equivalent of reverse-charged light?

    Could a single, "mutated" quark, quasar, or thing, become charged the wrong way from subtle interaction with it's surrounding particles?

    Matter and Anti-Matter. Touch one to another, and stand well back.

    The universe is expanding, and it encompasses all space and time as we know it.

    Could it be like a big sheet of paper (paper == anti-energy) and someone (rogue element) "ignites", switches polarity, triggers a "burn"?

    When you light the centre of a sheet of paper, it expands, sometimes uniformly.

    Are the boundaries of our universe a massive bluish-white of fire? Masses of matter reacting against the inverse Nothing of anti-matter, burning, accelerating like a brush-fire on a hot day.

    If the universe is all time and space then it doesn't necessarily have to be planets and stars out there on the boundaries.

    It could be the Burn, already moving faster then light from the instant it started, expanding constantly, releasing energy that is recycled back into matter in our own space-time.

    --
    His name is Robert Paulsen...