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Yahoo Fights Back in Battle With Google
ChipGuy writes "Om Malik has a great analysis of how Yahoo is fighting back the Google assault. 'A handful of blog-evangelists, a couple of key buys - (Odd Post and Flickr) have turned Yahoo from a dot.has.been to the new darling of the chattering classes.' Yahoo's new initiatives like Yahoo 360 are even apprently making Yahoo Web 2.0 compliant."
From TFA: "It is no surprise that many Yahoo insiders felt like the Yankee fans - no matter what they did, they were going to be overshadowed by Google."
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Does this analogy make sense to anyone? Are these the same Yankee fans that support the richest, most successful team in baseball history? (And I say that as a Red Sox fan.) Perhaps Mets fans would have been a better comparison -- or maybe there's another breed of "Yankee fans" out there that I'm missing entirely.
Sorry for the sports chat on
yahoo has a long history of buying interesting companies to let them rot on their site. they incorporate them but don't extend the features past what they were initially. even worse when they get an interesting new feature they don't take anything interesting from that new project and incorporate it site wide, which for example they could do with flickr.
the only real exception to this has been their email system, which i'm no longer that flattered with...
sure it's great they have all sorts of neat features but who cares when they don't bother to update them as time goes by and users tastes change? google seems to actually do interesting things with their new projects. i am very curious how these new purchases are going to work out for yahoo or if they are just going to add to the rot.
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
On a semi-related note, if you haven't checked out MSN Spaces yet it's well worth the look. There's a lot of cool stuff being done in there, like integration with MSN Messenger so you can instantly see when your friends have updated their blog/pictures space-thingy (for the inevitable replies about news aggregators, just think of this as an alternative with a different feature set).
No, but I used to work for Microsoft.
Yahoo's got a good chance if they continue promoting services that can't be solved just by throwing a bunch of computers at them (no offence to Google intended).
In my case, I teach English in Korea. There's a great webpage that has an English/Korean dictionary with phrases of the day, sound files for pronunciation, and a bunch of sample sentence translations for the common words in the dictionary. It's even smart enough to know whether or not Korean or English was the original language and spits out the opposite language accordingly. Granted, that type of feature is probably easy to replicate, but it's still smart thinking, and shows that they're working on services that make things easy for users.
That's not something that Google can offer, even with its translation services, which can be notoriously buggy for going back and forth between Western and Eastern languages anyway.
Now, THAT said, nothing Yahoo's got right now is going to keep me away from google.com for searches. But they still have a decent portal service that integrates with email, along with yahoo groups and games, they probably don't have to worry TOO much yet.
With all of their clout, sheer presence, and complete dominance over the Internet, these power players don't need to get into a pissing contest.
Now, this is a pissing contest.
...how wonderful Yahoo thinks it is? I'm not inclined to think they're "wonderful". I don't care about their image.
It isn't "wonderful" that yahoogroups, in changing their layout, have now made it difficult and frustrating to search message archives. Not exactly Internet 2.0 company style, is it. If they want "wonderful", give me "useful".
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
While Yahoo! have been pretty nimble recently, especially with the improved search , aquiring flickr, yahoo! API , firefox toolbar , their email service has to go a looong way before they can tempt new users. Some of the things that would make me use more of my existing Yahoo id, * So, you have increased the email space to 1GB. But whats killer about that ?. * Integrate y! mail, y! chat and 360 (whenever that's ready) so that i can search my emails, chats, my blogs ,external blogs i've syndicated in my yahoo! . ( Think of Gnome's Dashboard project here.)
* Integrate Flickr! into my Yahoo! mail search. For example, when I search for bangpypers , i should also get to see the photos of bangpypers meetups, stored in my flickr account or my contact's accounts. Its the RSS people...
* I'm very keen about seeing the chat session being saved as 'conversations' in my yahoo mailbox and being able read/search. No, saving sessions on to the disk some how does not work out.
* Remove all the ads, make the interface really lightweight
* put POP access back; that was the reason I started using Yahoo! in the first place
* Add intelligent search to email ala gmail . This should be trivial to yahoo
After a long time, I'm rooting for Yahoo!. Perhaps, I look to yahoo! as being a competetive underdog.
Meanwhile, google is playing catch up in some areas and seems to be running into problems (302 page hijacking)
http://btbytes.com - bytes of Bangalore, Technology and open source
Yahoo seems to do a much better job indexing small websites and user pages than google. Google usually has a harder time finding sites that are not linked to often and can lead to trouble when you are looking for that obscure piece of information.
I've actually started using Yahoo's search again, something I never thought I'd do. The reason? Google's sandbox.
Many new sites are indexed by Google straight away, but don't appear in search results for up to 6 months. It seems to be an attempt by Google to counter spam sites, but it's catching a lot of legitimate sites as well. When I search I like to know that I'm getting up to date results, not just from sites that have been around for more than a few months,
I think yahoo will always be playing catch up in regards to search because google changed the basic assumptions of search with their PageRank algorithm. So much is driven by PageRank in regards to advertising revenue, that yahoo and msn.com must tailor their search results according to google's terms.
The other services that yahoo provides are really in different markets and not in direct competition with google. For example, hosting and DSL services with SBC isn't a competitor in the search market. One could conclude that because yahoo concentrates on so many things other then search, it may not be as dedicated to tuning its search algorithm.
Add the fact that yahoo's focus is to sell its search results, even if it means placing irrelevant results at the top of the page, only works in google's "do no evil" favor.
In a Google vs Yahoo war, the real loser is:
(mini-dumrol)(dum-da!)
Microsoft search.
Seems to me that Google and Yahoo are going to slug it out... Yahoo with their angle of providing numerious services, news, and such.. Being a general modern version of the 'Web portal', and Google leveraging experimental and search technics.
Bunches of features vs small amount of advanced features.
Were does Microsoft fit in? A small amount of non-advanced features?
You have 34% for Google, 31% for Yahoo, and 15% for Microsoft search. I wonder how they will fair within the next couple year.
The year 2005 could be another watershead year in search technology. If the new MSN-search can't make inroads within the next few months.. I don't see it happenning.. period.
That is changing with Linux OSes becomming easier to use. Such as Mandrake, Linspire, Xandros, Ubuntu, Mepis, Suse, etc. Autopackaging will also make it easier. I'd prefer a stable and secure OS than one that still acts as if it's in BETA.
Hold on here. Google is the upstart. Yahoo is the old man of the internet, the darling of the dot-com boom that survived the crash. Yahoo had all of these before Google existed or became important:
Web directory.
Web search.
Free web-based email.
Online organiser (calender and address book).
Free web hosting.
Online photo sharing.
News headlines and stories.
Movie times.
Maps.
Weather.
You can argue that Google has done nothing new. Their flagship product is nothing more than a better mousetrap - way to find stuff on the internet that's better than what came before. Yahoo was doing that a very, very long time ago - but mostly in the "digital directory" sense (creators of pages submit their page into the appropriate categories), not like Google's focused "digital index of everything" approach.
Put it this way: Could you still effectively use the internet if you could only access one company's web pages?
If I could only access *.yahoo.com I could basicly still do everything that I do on the internet. Check mail, read news (that's actually hosted on Yahoo's site), play online games, organise via online callender, watch music videos, participate in discussion groups. I could even look at porn - some discussion groups, refreshingly, have adult content. Yay for Yahoo treating users like grown-ups and allowing users to host porn on their networks!
If I could only access *.google.com - I'd be less pleased. Check mail, read news headlines (content is hosted elsewhere), read and post to internet newsgroups. But no porn unless it's ASCII because Google newsgroups ignore binary attachments. Dammit.
So anyway, my point is that Yahoo has more features and more stuff than Google. Google is slicker in some areas (like the clown-colored email client and the gee-wiz map javascript scrolling), but Yahoo is broader, more integrated and streamlined (try printing a Google map - it's messy). If you look at overall features - Yahoo kicks Google's ass. Yahoo's been bigger and badder than Google for a very long time. They're probably the most experienced company still on the internet when it comes to providing personalised content. And I've a feeling that Yahoo 360 is about to completely own Blogger.
I think a lot of people don't realize the immense difference between Yahoo and Google. And sure Yahoo may be a little upset about how little press it gets, but it's really not in an all out brawl with Google. Sure they're competing in the search engine field, but Yahoo's a complete media portal where Google's all about the technology. That should really be recognized.
the toothpaste is frozen
I'm just waiting for someone to snatch up www.i2hub.com, www.connectu.com, www.stallscribbles.com, and www.jungalu.com. They're all run by the same company, and they target the college market. All the sites are popular with students (different segments). ConnectU has one of the best social networking technologies. i2hub, one of the most popular desktop tools for college students just recently released i2hub 2.0, which ties in ConnectU directly. Pretty cool stuff these guys are releasing. Their founder is featured in Current Magazine as the technology leader for his generation.
I don't relate to personal blogs, either. But I see who does. There are freshman and sophmores at my Univ. who were blogging in highschool, and now that everyone has gone different directions to school, its the *main* way they keep in contact. Consider your life as that of a Soap Opera star, but you have to write the script. It ain't none of it true *until* you've blogged it, then its what just what you've blogged that's *true*.
mail. It is a hold over from when I was younger. I only got the account because MS terminated my hotmail account( thankgod looking back). I suppose I am only with Yahoo still because they work well, spam is small and it takes 2 clicks to get my mail. I have even bought things offered by Yahoo. They must of had $80 off me.
Whats Google got off me even though I use their search engine all the time? A couple of ad clicks? I even have a gmail account but hardly use it at the moment. The
I recently registered for a Flickr account and use it. I might even upgrade after the beta. More money for Yahoo.
Google on the other hand have had very little off me yet I prefer their search and mail. Apart from the fact it picks up keywords. Yahoo's only annoying feature is that it forces me to sign in every day now to get my mail. I think every 24 hours it forgets you.
Why am I telling you this? I suppose its because I use to be a computer geek who was going down the path of linux and learning computer courses. But Yahoo isn't a geek site, google is. Yahoo have got my money, but I still favour Google because of its clean and simple design.
Jonathanjk.com
Hailing "blogging" is effectively like hailing paper - it's just a way to get your word out. Independent writers and publishers, like John Gruber (http://daringfireball.net/) and Joel Spolsky (http://joelonsoftware.com/) as well as the personal thoughts from people that are inside different industries - like Om - are what you like, the gems of which you speak. Sure - "blogging" as a media sure has its upsides, and I'm not sure we would have seen these writers without the rise of it. But hailing "blogging" - as some people here do - is no more correct than saying that all comments on Slashdot ought to be rated 5, Insightful. The opposite - degrading something for being based on the "blogging" format just because kids use it, too - is in essence no different than degrading the New York Times because the New York Times publishes on paper, and kids draw stupid stuff on paper. I hope we'll finally get away from all the hype on the particular media.
Then again, we're yet to see the sort of buzz around these APIs that Google was able to muster. Where are the Yahoo equivalents of GoogleBrowser, Googlism and GoogleAlert? Guess there's still something more emotionally exciting about Google, at least for now...
Like I've stated before, I work at Best Buy's Geek Squad service. No need to reiterate. When I'm "off duty", I do free-lance computer repair for people, referenced-based only. I was recently at a lady's house in the middle of Bumblefuck, and she's having me install her computer (it was relocated for insurance reasons after a fire and she'd just got it back) back into it's spot. Had to reinstall Windows, she had ME... so I did her a favour and gave her XP Home. Anyways... the only 3rd-party software that I'd installed on her computer AT ALL was the Yahoo! SBC dial-up deal so she could just get online. That's all she wanted. Nothing else, just online capabilities. It turns out that the disc that Yahoo! sends you comes bundled with some "Easter Eggs" (quite convenient given the time of year) like MSBlast and some trojan with the process HWclock.exe (interminible). I ruled out the possibility that it were some OTHER software that gave her the virus, simply because the second after the XP tour deal ends (she was enthused to watch that mega-boring thing), I installed the Yahoo! SBC crap. Nothing else, just Windows and Yahoo! on that lonely hard disk, and she's already got a pair of viruses. Plus a few other things that I'm yet to get at becuase they disable access to regedit and task manager.
Yahoo! has nothing to be proud of really, and they should really check themselves before they get themselves into trouble for something like this. The lady I was servicing the computer of was almost going to publically boycott Yahoo! for it.
But in relation with the Google battle, I think they're just trying to cover the ground that Google's gaining on Yahoo!. Remember that Google is now a massive corperation who fires bloggers and gives "exclusive" memberships to their email services, and Yahoo! is so big they can only afford 2mb per box.
This whole thing was probably off topic...
They do have pop access, but you have to pay for it.
I use Yahoo mail to download my email from two external accounts and read it online (neither account has shell access). This is a feature Gmail DOESNT have. Then I can POP the mail from yahoo to my local machine. Its all part of Yahoo Mail Plus
Lots of those people don't expect you to care about when they got up in the morning. Instead, they expect their *friends* to be interested in such posts.
Some people use blogs as a convenient way of broadcasting things. I might have say, 10 people available on my favourite IM service, and not want to have an identical conversation about what I did today with each of them. Especially because maybe 4 of them don't care today about what my cat does. Instead, I just post it in the blog. Then they once in a while check their LJ friends page, skim the posts and read anything they like.
Now, there are indeed people who use blogs as an attempt to try to be a journalist, but there are also lots of them that use a blogs as a pretty and convenient mailing list.
See, the thing here is that a blog is simply yet another system with its advantages and inconveniences. If I want to have a group talk, I use IRC. If I want to ask a question right now I use IM. If I want to leave a message or to slowly discuss something in private, I use email. And when I want to broadcast stuff like "I'm feeling ill, so I'll go lie on the bed and read a book" then I post on the blog. You might not be in the slightest interested in that, but it's not for you.
It always seems like google engineers its own programs, while yahoo has to buy it from other companies... and it never turns out to work quite as well as google's webware...
Yes, those stupid blogs are getting very popular, but you really need to read Slashdot, Sun's blog, CNET, eWeek, The Drudge Report, Jasoncurious.com, I Cringley, f**kedcompany (ok that one's dead),... but there are tons of blogs that are
a) columnists from other media,
b) New guys who get a quick following
THOSE are the new media. Not the guy who talks about his dump that was a floater.
Take a look at the link to my JE in my SIG. Last week I complained about Wired magazine jumping on this retarded new trend. Why all the Google bashing all of the sudden? It's certainly not coming from people who actually know anything about how to design decent free web services that mean anything. Yahoo has had nothing but a useless search engine, crappy web mail and a useless bunch of junk on their portal for as long as I can see. Google, on the other hand has begun offering much better services and they do it by spending less money and having a smaller staff than Yahoo. They make extensive use of mostly standards compliant protocols/web design tools. And they use a Linux cluster to do it all. How much better can you get than that? In my view, all Yahoo had during their boom was a bunch of venture capital that they squandered foolishly. All they are trying to do right now is get more venture capital. Witness the STUPID notion that by upping their Yahoo mail quota to 1 gig, that they somehow compete with GMail. Bzzt! Wrong. They don't "get it". It's not the storage space stupid. It's the archiving, mail search and threading features that make GMail a cut above the rest. GMail almost makes mail as quick and easy as IM, but with the permanence of e-mail. Yahoo messenger blows chunks. Yahoo search engine is completely useless unless you're in the first grade and can't do a proper search. Sorry... Yahoo is nothing but a bunch of losers who focus more on money than technology. Technology is what this is all about, leave the money grubbing to the suits.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o