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New Photovoltaics Made with Titanium Foil

Memorize writes "A company called Daystartech has released a new type of photovoltaic cell which, unlike almost all the cells currently in use, does not silicon. This is based on a thin titanium film. Given the current shortage of solar-grade silicon, and all-time high oil prices, maybe titanium solar panels are here at the right time. The questions are, will they release it as a consumer solar product, and what will be the price per kilowatt hour?"

16 of 346 comments (clear)

  1. To silicon or not to silicon, that is the question by eviloverlordx · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course, once we decide, we'll need to find out what 'to silicon' actually means...

    --
    'Loose' is when your pants are three sizes too big. 'Lose' is when you misuse 'loose'.
  2. I gotta say... by SparksMcGee · · Score: 5, Funny

    I confess I've always had a problem with power sources that do silicon. Snooty bastards, what with their made up verbs and their rock music...

  3. This is big news. by TheGuano · · Score: 5, Funny

    It could lead to some very promising developments. I was trying to collect solar energy today, but ended up siliconing so bad that I couldn't sit down for hours. It still smarts...

  4. Oh great... by Kjuib · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now I have to upgrade from my Tin Foil hat to a Titanium Foil hat... I hate expensive upgrades!

    --
    - Your stupidity got you into this mess, why can't it get you out? -Will Rogers
  5. Price per kilowatt hour... by MisterLawyer · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The way this question is posed demonstrates a common misunderstanding of the costs and benefits of investing in alternative energy sources.

    Obviously, the marginal price per kilowatt hour is $0. The difference between obtaining 100 kilowatt hours and 101 kilowatt hours is nothing. You would simply have to wait for enough sunlight to hit the solar panel to generate that extra 1 kilowatt hour.

    The true cost of investing in solar energy is in the intial cost of manufacturing and setting up the panel.

    Thus, the actual cost per kilowatt hour depends on how long you use the solar panel. The longer you use the panel, the cheaper each kilowatt hour becomes.

    1. Re:Price per kilowatt hour... by soupdevil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's assuming zero maintenance costs, and that waiting costs you nothing.

  6. Unobtanium foil, better still by winkydink · · Score: 5, Funny

    but I hear it's really hard to get

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  7. Solar cells from biology by Bifurcati · · Score: 5, Interesting
    At University of Queensland (in Australia) where I study, we're developing solar cells out of "solid solids" - flexible polymers/plastics. The hope is that as well as being even more efficient, they'll be easy to use - they're flexible, and can be bent, twisted, shaped, etc.

    One possibility is to use melanin - the skin pigment that gives our skins colour. Being in Australia, of course, researching melanin is of significant interest to us! It's yet another example of biology helping to make really cool physics - more details are available on UQ's physics blog.

  8. can't get something for nothing by kebes · · Score: 5, Informative

    Food for thought: if your solar sail is using photon pressure, then by coating it in a photoelectric, you're halving its efficiency as a solar sail. Why? Well if your solar sail is a perfect reflector, then the photons bounce off and reverse direction, so the momentum change is twice the initial photon momentum (yes photons are massless but they do have momentum). If the sail is absorbing the photons for electricity, then they are not reflecting, so you merely absorb their momentum, making your forward impulse half what it would otherwise have been.

    But, as we all know, solar sails work both by exploiting photon pressure, and solar wind (particles emitted by the sun), so the situation is maybe not that bad.

  9. Re:Slicon Shortage by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

    Slicon?

    The interesting thing here is that the fastest growing solar cell market is not silicon: it's organic solar cells. They're incredibly cheap, but currently inefficient. However, their efficiency has been growing dramatically. One company, nanosolar, claims to have achieved almost the efficiency of amorphous silicon cells. Their patent is rather interesting, and well worth a read.

    --
    I once listened to a Philip Glass record for an hour and a half before I realized it was skipping.
  10. Re:Slicon Shortage by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

    Monocrystalline silicon is incredibly expensive. Polycrystalline silicon (which has largely taken over in the solar cell market) is simply "very expensive". Silicon is common, but pure silicon crystals require clean-room conditions to grow.

    Titanium isn't that rare. The ore isn't the primary cost component (like, say, gold). Instead, like aluminum, the main costs are in refining. Unlike aluminum, however, there is currently no continuous production process - only an expensive batch production process. Even the inventor of the process, William Kroll expected to have it be replaced within decades of its implementation in 1940; no suitable replacement was found, however.

    Fortunately, it looks like there are some on the horizon. Most interestingly, it appears that electrolysis can be conducted directly on titanium oxide (this has huge potential applications for other hard-to-refine metals as well, and may allow for the creation of new alloys). There's also a aluminum-style molten-salt electrolysis process (FFC-Cambridge) in testing.

    Titanium isn't inherently hard to work with, persay; you just need to be properly equipped to work with it and experienced with it. You have to use *very* pure argon in welding, and you have to keep the argon going for longer after you take the heat off. You also have to avoid working it with aluminum tools, which can alloy with the metal and weaken it. Etc.

    There are some benefits, though. Impurities in titanium are very easy to spot, as they tend to discolor. Also, titanium is *very* fatigue resistant, and aircraft with titanium structural components have sometimes even been found to be stronger after being flown a few times than when they were built.

    --
    I once listened to a Philip Glass record for an hour and a half before I realized it was skipping.
  11. Re:Slicon Shortage by Qzukk · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, actually. This isn't just some sand scooped off a beach. Solar panel grade silicon comes from the leftovers after semiconductor grade silicon users have picked through their crystal wafers, which is why there is a shortage in the first place, since there is a narrow range of quality ("almost" good enough for semiconductors). As for titanium, my 30 year old encyclopeda says its one of the 10 most common metals on the planet. Titanium Oxide is cheaply produced and used liberally in paint.

    Titanium is malleable when hot (meaning you can flatten it into foil). So producing titanium foil is probably not a difficult task, depending on how hot "hot" is. (Though the article mentions that the titanium foil used is thinner than household aluminum foil. The process looks like it would be easy anyway, but time consuming.)

    As for your post on waste products, the most common smelting procedure in use works without catalyst or flux to produce pig-iron and Titanium Oxide, though this process is common because of its use in paint. This process was recently developed for producing metallic titanium, its outputs are salt (NaCl), titanium, and whatever impurities get washed into the liquid sodium stream and removed later.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  12. Re:This has all been gone over before... by TFoo · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Umm, I could be missing something, but your initial statement that "Photoelectric won't work, won't solve even a small fraction of our power needs, not remotely" seems to be completely wrong.

    A quick Google search shows that on earth every square meter receives about 4.2kwh of energy per day over a 24 hour period.

    A quick look at my electric bill says I use about 20kwh/day as a rough average -- another Google search suggests that the average US household uses approximately 25kwh/day

    ...So, finishing the math: using 15% efficiency solar cells, the Average US Household needs only 40 square meters (430 square feet) of solar cells to cover all its energy needs. Heck, I could use 5% solar cells on my roof in downtown San Francisco, and STILL have 2x extra capacity to sell back to the grid!

    Don't get me wrong: Solar won't solve everything, particularly in applications like transportation where energy storage is an issue --- and cheap Fission IS something we should have figured out a long time ago --- but please don't resort to misinformation to make your points, it only weakens what you are saying.

  13. Re:Slicon Shortage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've achieved self-replicating organic solar cells in my back yard. Some of them are even tasty.

  14. Re:Slicon Shortage by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 5, Informative
    They don't use sand to produce silicon, they use quartz rock. They reduce (redox reaction) the SiO2 using coal and charcoal to produce the initial Silicon metal(oid). Or to put it in layman's terms, it is smelted in a reaction similar to reducing iron in a blast furnace (except with silicon, it is done in a three phase AC powered arc furnace). The reactions happen in the gas phase at over 1400 degrees C. Chunks of quartz are more suitable since the gases can move between them. Sand just clogs things up... kind of like smothering a fire.

    Si02 + 2C = 2CO + Si

    Once this silicon is produced, it is refined into super-pure semiconductor grade silicon, or more usually, into silicone rubber pre-cursors. I used to work in silicon smelting R&D and so I have some idea about what I'm talking about. (We built and ran the worlds largest direct current arc furnace during a series of pilot runs in the early 90's to research making lower cost silicon. That was before Russia opened up. After they did, they flooded the market with cheaper silicon, and there was no point trying to create lower cost silicon.) The biggest use of silicon is in making silicone rubber (but not so many boobs any more). The raw material for ultra-pure silicon is taken from the raw material (not so pure silicon) used for silicone production.

    Anyway, smelting silicon creates large volumes of CO. CO (carbon monoxide) is highly flammable, on the order of natural gas, and usually burns off to C02 at the top of the furnace bed. (CO could be used as a fuel like natural gas, but it is so poisonous it is not really safe to do so.) Since coal and charcoal are used in the process, other carbon by-products are also released, mostly in gaseous form. E.g. like the stuff that makes up tars and such... a little nasty... but quite small relative to CO and CO2 since the high temperature tends to atomize them. However, some of the coal and charcoal does burn away in the upper part of the furnace (where it is relatively cooler) and before it gets a chance to react. As well as producing some not so nice gases, it is a very energy intensive process. Silicon is never found in elemental form in nature. It must be separated from SiO2, which requires a lot of power, which in turn needs to be produced at generating stations.

    As far as silicon used in semi-conductors goes, I'm not sure if they use electrolysis to refine it to ultra-pure levels. Maybe in some sort of deposition process from a gasous phase, but I am just guessing from what I have read in general chemistry related articles. The details of that type of processing are usually very top secret so I am not sure who could or would comment on that. And I mean either industrial secrets and likely in a military sense as well (it is probably of strategic value).

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    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  15. Re:Slicon Shortage by K8Fan · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Took some serious hitting with a sledge hammer and a vice to put any kind of a bend in the metal. Impressive stuff.

    Want to see something really cool? Check out "Liquidmetal". It's an alloy of titanium and other metals and has some really amazing properties. For one, it can be cast and does not form crystals like titanium, has a low melting tempature compared to it's component metals - it can actually be injection-molded. It's twice as strong as titanium by weight and much more flexible. There's a bounce-test video on their web site that it a hoot.

    Right now it's being used for the hinges in that new Motorola Razor phone, various sporting goods and military applications. Cool stuff.

    --
    "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb