Senator Clinton Slams GTA

Joining the ranks of such luminaries as Jack Thompson and Governor Blagojevich, GamesIndustry.biz has the word that Senator Hillary Clinton has joined right wing advocates in decrying the gaming industry as a paragon of loose morals and corrupting influences. From the article: "Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them...This is a silent epidemic of media desensitisation that teaches kids it's OK to diss people because they are a woman, they're a different colour or they're from a different place." Commentary available at The Australian. Update: 03/30 02:22 GMT by T : Thanks to reader mantle_etching, here is a link to the entire speech as delivered, so you can judge its content for yourself.

Comments

Fantasy and reality

[fembots]

You think killing prostitutes are bad? Wait until you see soldiers team-killing each other in CounterStrike.

Re:Fantasy and reality

[CSMastermind]

http://www.apa.org/science/psa/sb-anderson.htmlFac ts versus Myths about video game violence The guy covers the main points about video game violence. In short, yes there are. But there are more studies that show that children are likely to become violent if their parents are negligent or violent.

Re:Fantasy and reality

[frikazoyd]

I actually did some research on this for a paper a while back. The one study that I saw that was of any interest goes as follows:

Two sets of children, same age, same geographical area, same school, kept separate as much as possible to prevent "polluting".

Set A: Given video games to play for X hours a day.

Set B: No video games.

I can't remember for sure, I'd have to dig it up again, but I believe that Set B also was limited on their television intake.

Results: Set A children angered more easily and were more prone to hitting each other in play. Set B children were more patient, hit each other less, and had calmer attitudes.

At best though, this is only one study, so it was careful to point out that this drew a "correlation" between more violent play, quick tempers, and Video Games. They didn't list what games were played, or any details on the children, so results are dubious at best.

When I find a link, I'll paste it.

Re:Fantasy and reality

[geekoid]

George Washington.
After that, it gets iffy.

Re:Fantasy and reality

[Skye16]

Do you at least know what age these children were? I could easily see a 5 or 6 year old being more violent after excessively violent video games and tv shows, but I'm not so sure about a 16 year old, unless they had completely horrible parenting.

Parents really need to be more in tune with violence in video games. My step brother was about 11 and was very prone to violence (not against people, but he was all about breaking things and punching holes in the wall). My dad had just married to his mom, so he didn't feel he was exactly in a position to put this brat in his place, but the point is, the kid was violent and got angry entirely too easily. For Christmas, he got a PlayStation 2. I talked to my Dad at some point before hand and told him "no matter what you do, do NOT get Matt any games that are rated M, it's probably not in his best interests". Then I find out a few weeks later, my dad or stepmom went out and bought him GTA3.

I do take exception to people saying video games are the root of all evil. But I completely agree when people say they could - in conjunction with other factors - cause a child with many more social problems (ie: violence and the like, or, at the least, improper anger management). I was infuriated that my father had bought this kid GTA3. Frankly, if you wouldn't trust them with a gun, they shouldn't be playing that type of video game. I honestly think it was the only time in my adult life I ever yelled at my father. I yelled so much my voice turned hoarse over it. Even aside from the problems Matt had with anger management and violent disposition, 11 year olds don't need to be playing video games where the purpose of the game is to drive around, steal cars, shoot people, kill cops and screw hookers. When you're mature enough, fine, but the kid wouldn't even brush his teeth or take a shower if you didn't make him do it.

Re:Fantasy and reality

[myth_of_sisyphus]

I love GTA and I'm in my 30s.

But, when I went to a friend's house and played it with my friend's 12 year old son in the room (we were just racing around vice city) and the kid yells "pick up the hooker! Give her money and run her over and get it back!" it made me immediately question video games, violence, GTA, and the future of America.

Needless to say, we shut off the game. Asked him where he heard about that (at school) and dad sent him to his room.

Re:Fantasy and reality

[robertjw]

Show me one parent that isn't absolutely mortified by GTA and I will provide you with a list of hundreds that will take the other side.

Well gee, maybe those hundreds of parents should get off their collective fat asses and pay some attention to what their kids are doing. Don't like? Fine, then don't play it, don't let your kids play it. Don't waste time and money to keep other people and their kids from playing it.

Re:Fantasy and reality

[Mr. Slippery]

She still looks like a socialist.

Conservatives like to throw that word "socialist" around. In the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

Or is Hillary working for a democratic society and economy run to meet the needs of all instead of the profits of a few? For the worker's democratic ownership and/or control of the means of production? For the end of capitalist oppression and exploitation?

Re:Fantasy and reality

[lsdino]

I'm amazed with the number of comments in this article that no one's really picked up on this.

I find it hard to agree that this teaches that "it's OK to diss people because they are a woman, they're a different colour or they're from a different place." is accurate.

The common argument against this is that did playing super mario brothers make us all want to jump on and throw turtles around? Did playing tetris make people obsessive about placing blocks in tightly packed configuration? If you played Monopoly as a child are you bound to end up trying to corner a market in your adult life? It's obvious that the things we do as a child have affects upon who we become when we're adults. What isn't clear is what effect playing a violent video game will have on the developing mind. Maybe it causes more violence, maybe it causes LESS evidence (as it serves as an outlet), or maybe it's just a wash... We really need multiple case studies in order to judge this, and I don't believe we have these multiple case studies.

Now let me come back to some specifics on Hillary's comment. First I think if killing a prositute is a diss on all women, isn't jailing prositutes also a diss on all women? I mean after all in both cases an external party is depriving the women of her rights to treat her body as she wishes. Is Hillary for legalized prostituion as well?

Next I haven't heard of any overtly racist portions of GTA or other equally popular games. I think it would have made a pretty big stink if there were racist elements to the games, so I'm not sure where this comes from. I would say the US public has a pretty low level of tolerance for overt racism and you usually hear about it when it occurs anywhere in mainstream media.

Finally, we're allowed to discriminate against people from a different place. We can hate the French all day long for example (American Fries anyone?) and for the most part this doesn't spark outrage. We have a long history of hating different countries for different reasons. Russia, Cuba, etc... We hate the people of a country all the time. It's hating them for their race that's bad! And the US government continues to discrimate against those from foreign countries today. We see it overtly in the form of immigration laws and more recently in the treatment of people siezed during Bush's little war.

On a slightly different note I don't see why this is an issue for the federal government. Do you not want your kids to play GTA? Fine, don't buy them GTA. Oh, but one of their friends might have it! God forbid that as a parent you might need to get involved in your childs life, talk to their friends parents, or even have to say no to your child once in a while. This is just the government pandering to lazy parents who aren't willing to take responsibility for how they raise their children. The more the government does this the lazier parents are bound to become as their responsibilities (and along with those rights!) are taken away from them.

So to sumarize: No one needs to admit anything's true. Saying that without providing any facts is a really lame. Just like Hillary you're playing off the fears of people without any hard data. Where's the problem? As video games have become more and more popular crime rates have been going down. It seems to me that video games occupy teenagers time and cause crime to go down. Perhaps you could get your head out of your ass and admit that this is true.

Probably hits too close to home...

[grub]

... but did you ever notice that not a single politician slams Thief?

Campaign Tactic

[ackthpt]

Discussion is a good thing. If you read further into the Australian article this appears more a political tack than anything substantive. Even so, I've seen some of the GTA footage and wonder where we're going. Fantasy is OK, to what point? Discussion is important because while people are forced to defend opinions rather than simply bully the opposing view, options are open. I've thought Free Speach, regarding the content of video games to be a pretty tawdry use of constitutional protection. But years ago I could sacrifice the corpse of a @ at an altar in NetHack, granted it was very graphic, but I haven't tried that to anyone on the street lately.

I remember reading about how wonderful alcohol was, while in Jr. High and Highschools. Never Cry Wolf, by Farley Mowat, painted a lovely picture of something called "wolf juice" which was (IIRC) half whiskey and half beer. This book was required reading for some classes. Should I blame Mr. Mowat for how much I spend on ales, porters and stouts these days? I suggest a few million to conduct a meaningful study. If it's approved, I'll see you all down at the bar, first round is on me.

diss?!

[JazzyJ]

Hilary Clinton... used the word 'diss' in a sentence? Hilary Clinton?!?...

Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse???!?!

Are we sure it wasn't George Clinton?....

Re:diss?!

[BlueMud]

I'm not so concerned with 'diss' as I am 'colour.' When did she stop using American-English? Last I knew, we banned the letter 'u' about the same time we dumped all that tea in the harbour. CRAP!! There it is again!!! Please save me from the extraneous U's!!!

Young Republicans

[onyxruby]

Is Hilary Clinton trying to swell the ranks of the Young Republicans? Whatever happened to Democrats sticking up for things like civil liberties? When do I get my Deomocrat party back from the corps and self righteous? Yet another disillusioned Democrat that desperatelhy want a middle of the road party to balance things out in this country of mine.

Re:Young Republicans

[garcia]

Whatever happened to Democrats sticking up for things like civil liberties? When do I get my Deomocrat party back from the corps and self righteous?

At the same time I get my Republican Party back from the New Aged GOP that has started supporting Big Government, Business, and Big Spending.

Re:Young Republicans

[sjwaste]

At the same time I get my Republican Party back from the New Aged GOP that has started supporting Big Government, Business, and Big Spending.

I'm wondering the same thing. Where'd all the real republicans go? The ones who don't pay subsidies to big business (and would've let some of the major airlines fold, to be replaced by more competitive ones) and don't spend needlessly on programs that aren't working or entire departments (the IRS could be mostly cut out in favor of a VAT, for example). Oh well, on the other hand, at least we're not as bad as most of the european countries in terms of the tax rate, spending, or unemployment (this isn't a swipe at europeans, many of your nations DO tax and spend more and have higher rates of unemployment).

GTA definitely had no effect on me.

[The_Rippa]

I was murdering prostitutes WAY before GTA came out.

Bullshit

[op51n]

It doesn't make you kill prostitutes. Just something you are free to do, as in real life. I choose not to in SA, for various reasons.

Also I think with SA they have been more consistent with who is racist/sexist &c. You're character isn't overly either, yet the more dislikable people are, as in films for instance.

I bought it, and it had an 18 label on it. Moral of the story - DON'T LET YOUR KIDS PLAY IT IF THEY'RE NOT INTELLIGENT, FREE THINKING INDIVIDUALS. Jesus!

Re:Or...

[Golias]

The key part of the sound bite:

"Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them..."

Wow. Sounds like those children have some really crappy parents. My brother would never let his daughter play a game like Grand Theft Auto.

Perhaps, Senator Clinton, this is what comes of trying to get the "village" to raise a child. There are a lot of jerks in any given community who will happily sell violent soft-core pornography to children at $60 retail.

Re:STAY OUT OF OUR PERSONAL LIVES!

[garcia]

You seem to be forgetting that there was a period of ten years between the two events...

It's not up to politicians to determine the morality of music, video games, or any other communication. Politicians are always trying to get an angle on something to better their own political gain.

Their constituents shouldn't be admonished for "bad morals" because they have free thought while they strive to cheat, steal, lie, and sneak around to get higher up the political food chain.

Re:Some Perspective

[stonedonkey]

Completely out of context.

Context:

"Headlining an appearance with other Democratic women senators on behalf of Sen. Barbara Boxer, who is up for re-election this year, Hillary Clinton told several hundred supporters -- some of whom had ponied up as much as $10,000 to attend -- to expect to lose some of the tax cuts passed by President Bush if Democrats win the White House and control of Congress.

"Many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," Sen. Clinton said. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

Re:Slashdot Translator

[govtcheez]

Kids don't grow up to become prostitute-murdering psychopaths because they played a videogame that "taught them it was cool."

But my mom said I could be whatever I wanted when I grew up!

This link says it all :

[isotope23]

Look here

The best quotes :
"Serious violent crime levels declined since 1993. "
"Firearm-related crime has plummeted since 1993."

The most amusing thing is Doom was released at the peak in 1993. Perhaps people are taking their frustations out in violent video games instead of real life?

The answer:

[zCyl]

When do I get my Deomocrat party back

Where'd all the real republicans go?

It won't change until you find a way to convince the general public to stop voting people they don't really want up through the primary elections just because they think they can win, and find a way to convince the general public to stop believing fabricated rhetoric from the "news" telling them what to think about a candidate's character.

It's a much bigger problem than just finding a new candidate. It's a systemic problem involving the distribution and control of information, and it has hit both parties.

Re:Or...

[Some_Llama]

"My brother would never let his daughter play a game like Grand Theft Auto."

I let my 9 year old daughter play it, guess what she did?

She drove around in the taxi giving people rides or the fire truck/ambulence helping people...

When she watched me play it she kept telling me "No don't shoot the people!!! Don't drive on the sidewalk!!! You're not supposed to be the bad guy!!"

Maybe this can be taken as one of the "its a tool and depends on how you use it" arguements?

Not everything is inherently bad or evil...

So...

[geekee]

Hillary believes it's ok for a teenage girl to have the right to have an abortion without parental consent, but she can't play a video game with simulated sex and violence.