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Mac mini as Embedded Development Platform

Posted by timothy on from the one-for-each-passenger-in-my-car dept.

Ohreally_factor writes "Peter Seebach has written a paper over at IBM developerWorks on the potential use of the Mac mini as a high-end embedded development board. Quote from the article: 'Comparing it to other embedded systems, you'll find that it's not much bigger, and it's smaller than some. It has a broader array of connectors, a faster processor, support for a very large amount of memory, and comes with self-hosted development tools. In short, if you look at it as an embedded development platform, it's a competitive one.'"

80 comments

  1. When I first saw the Mac Mini by ciroknight · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...I thought of the DARPA project. Or how cool it would be to have a Mac in a car anyways. One button mouse makes it easy to while in a figity car.

    I for one welcome our new Mac Mini overlords.

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    1. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One button mouse makes it easy to while in a figity car.

      More importantly, an interface designed to work with a single button makes specialized interface devices much easier to implement.

    2. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by argent · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Unfortunately the Mac OS interface is not designed to work with a single button. There are a lot of thing you need to use control- option- or command- click to do, and shift-click is often nearly as critical.

      Really, the Mac has a 5 button mouse with 4 of them on the keyboard.

    3. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      Name one; I'm using my iBook as of current, and I can see almost anything I would need to use a second click for in a menu somewhere.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    4. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apart from a few games, I can't think of anything I need a second button and/or meta key for. Every last aspect of the entire OS can be operated without ever using control-click or right-click.

      Saying the interface needs multiple buttons is like saying it needs a scroll wheel to operate it. You're just being silly.

    5. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by argent · · Score: 4, Informative

      Name one; I'm using my iBook as of current, and I can see almost anything I would need to use a second click for in a menu somewhere.

      You need control-click to bring up contextual manus in many situations. Click-and-hold doesn't work.

      You need command-click or shift-click for multiple selections.

      You need command-click to move or remove menu-bar objects.

      You need control, shift, and option-click all over the place in Photoshop... long one of the "killer apps" for the Mac. In other apps I've run into as much as 2-keys-chorded-plus-double-click.

      In OS 9, which was more consistent about this than OS X, you needed option-click to move the control strip.

      That's just off the top of my head.

    6. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by dbrutus · · Score: 1

      In the Finder the contextual menu is available via the "action" button for those who stick with one button ever since 10.3. I'm not quite sure what requires multiple buttons/modifier keys anymore. Since UI scripting became available as an OS function (10.2.3) I've had access for assistive devices on so that might be making more things than normal accessible.

      In short, the list of things you can't do without a modifier key or a second button has dropped to either zero or near zero in the recent past, at least at the OS level.

    7. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Your 3 first items are all shortcuts.

      Contextual menus are just shortcuts to actual menu bar menu items, or items accessible otherwise.

      Multiple items can be handled in one by one.

      Menu and toolbar items can be removed by other means. Menu apps can be removed from their folder in the file system to keep them from loading. The 'Customize toolbar' mode in applications does not require command-dragging.

      But yeah

      The design of Adobe Photoshop® isn't that great. Many third party apps take privileges that defy accessibility and break standards.

      Critisizing them for that would be a good thing to do.

      J

    8. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by remahl · · Score: 1

      Every action in a contextual menu should be available by other means. Yes, you need modifiers for multiple selection in most programs. Menulings can be removed from the preferences of respective program / preference pane. That holds true for all Apple-provided menulings. Yes, many third-party programs require modifiers to perform certain tasks, but in many cases there are alternative ways of achieving the same thing. Yes, option was used to move the control strip. Using modifiers is not the same thing as requiring a second mouse button though. Very few programs do that.

    9. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by argent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In the Finder the contextual menu is available [...]

      The Finder is not the only application on the Mac.

      In short, the list of things you can't do without a modifier key or a second button has dropped to either zero or near zero in the recent past, at least at the OS level.

      In short, there have always been things you can't do, and more things you can't easily or conveniently do, without a modifier key, and while there are workarounds that make many of them easier if not more convenient... the Mac user interface supports and encourages them.

      The Windows user interface style guidelines actually do more to discourage dependence on the right mouse button (for example, contextual menus are supposed to be mirrored in the main menu) than the Mac HIG discourages use of modifier keys.

      In short, describing the Mac mouse as a "five button mouse with four buttons on the keyboard" (not my phrase, though I may have come up with it independantly... it was originally used by someone in support of the Mac one-button design) is not unreasonable.

    10. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by argent · · Score: 1

      Using modifiers is not the same thing as requiring a second mouse button though.

      It's an extra button. Whether it's on the mouse or not, it's an extra button, and something else to memorise.

    11. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by feloneous+cat · · Score: 1

      You need control, shift, and option-click all over the place in Photoshop... long one of the "killer apps" for the Mac. In other apps I've run into as much as 2-keys-chorded-plus-double-click.

      Dude, he is IN HIS CAR. Why would you need photoshop IN YOUR CAR?

      --
      IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
    12. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by argent · · Score: 1

      Why would you need photoshop IN YOUR CAR?

      So that you can clean up the pic you took on your cameraphone before you upload it to your iPod Photo to impress the member-of-the-appropriate-sex next to you BEFORE THE LIGHT CHANGES!

    13. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by aryaabraham · · Score: 1

      I have nothing against the Mac. In my experience with embedded platforms (which is not a lot), I've noticed that the issue with them is to find a platform that fits your specification like a glove without any extraneous features to bloat your price point. Very often we spend a lot of time making the hardware cheaper.

      Now this is not true of defense related projects, where cost is never an issue. But in manufacturing even a few dollars can shave a whole lot off your price. So just having a platform with oodles of RAM and processing power is does not qualify the device for an embedded application.

      You need a real time clock, a watch dog, non-volatile RAM (instead of hard-drives which depend on moving parts), no fans, etc.

      Does the Mac mini give you these? Remember most embedded applications are generally computers that have been programmed to do a few tasks and to do them very well, with minimal failures and no human interaction.

      -- Arya

    14. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      If you are doing Photoshop while driving, I think you have more to worry about than the number of buttons.

    15. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by dbrutus · · Score: 1

      We're talking about an embedded platform, right. In that case, the applications that will be run will likely not be the same as you would run on a desktop machine. Embedded applications run their own stuff, designed for that particular embedded application. In that case, only finder independence of modifier keys really matters. Everything else is going to be independently developed and created with the unusual input device environment in mind.

      The fact that Photoshop or Maya, or Quark may be dependent on modifier keys means nothing for embedded developers if they're not going to run any of those applications but rather just build their own custom apps on top of the Finder.

    16. Re:When I first saw the Mac Mini by argent · · Score: 1

      We're talking about an embedded platform, right. In that case, the applications that will be run will likely not be the same as you would run on a desktop machine. Embedded applications run their own stuff, designed for that particular embedded application. In that case, only finder independence of modifier keys really matters.

      Finder still needs modifier keys for extended select.

      Besides, if you're going to write your own applications, then you're better off using one of the flash-booted Linux or BSD based "cigar box" computers instead of something running a general purpose desktop OS. Apple doesn't run mac OS X on the iPod, after all.

  2. Makes sense.... by GregAllen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For quite some time, we've used PowerBooks as embedded platforms. They are typically cheaper, faster, lower power, and easier to get than similar VME solutions with a PowerPC. Packaging is a bit of an issue, but the benefits have outweighed the problems. There's a large market for embedded x86 PCs, why not PPC with AltiVec?

    --
    Please help find my missing daughter: FindSabrina.org
    1. Re:Makes sense.... by SA+Stevens · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In most instances VME form-factor hardware is rated to a very high reliability. Likely more than a consumer-grade Powerbook.

      Probably a useful cheap-and-dirty solution, though.

    2. Re:Makes sense.... by trixy_1086 · · Score: 1

      There's a large market for embedded x86 PCs, why not PPC with AltiVec?

      The OEM cost of a PPC chip is prohibitive compared with that of the x86. At least, that's what comes to mind at first.
      Check out this link from about a year ago, though.
      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/14/ibm_powerp c_sale/

      --
      College Humor at it's best
  3. it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by FidelCatsro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The machine is great , small, compact , silent , powerfull , has a unix with full driver support for all included components ,Excelent development tools and a price that is unmatched in the area .
    I use my mini as a general purpose slim line as well as a digital hub.
    Whilst i read through this , i cant help myself saying "Exactly" out loud , Apple has one hell of a commodity/general purpose computer on its hand in the mini .
    seriously how many other mainstream computers can equaly compete in the Digital hub and embeded development market, OS X allows me the power of a unix system which I use daily and allows the system to be so easy that an adult with no experiance ( children pick GUI navigation up too easily to be worth mentioning) could use it quickly .
    Bravo apple , this machine made me break out the wallet the minute it was announced ,Ive used apple computers for a long time but never have i found an apple that was this versatile .

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    1. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Come on now, you can get all of that on a PC labtop. If you like the MiniMac design, that's great. But don't make it seem like a Sager labtop or a souped up Alienware can't be a digital Hub either.

    2. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by FidelCatsro · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes for about double the price , ;) i do own an IBM thinkpad from 2003 and i love it to bits , however it realy is not in the same market .The mac mini is no games device granted , but for my needs its a god send

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    3. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by peragrin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      your right you can.

      of course in order to do so with similar performace you need a machine weighing at 7lbs veruses the 15" power book at 5.6

      You need to carry a spare battery to last roughly the same amout of time on the battery.

      And unless you are running Windows your Driver support is flaky at best.

      Linux is ready for the desktop & server, just not for the laptop.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    4. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One would expect that such a wonderful machine could help you use punctuation somewhat like the rest of the world does. But alas, even a mac is not sufficiently idiot proof for the newest line of idiots coming off the lot.

      And, to be on topic, I'll add I am an embedded systems developer at times and the mac mini is simply not attractive whatsoever to embedded developers. I'd like to see what Apple's response would be when I try to rebrand their machines and replace the operating system. I imagine the result might include Steve Jobs' face turning beet-red, his hat flying off and the words "ONE POINT TWENTY -ONE JIGGAWATTS!" coming out of his mouth.

    5. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by dbrutus · · Score: 1

      I think you might find that he'd have more of a problem if you replaced the OS and *didn't* rebrand the machines. Since the HP and motorola deals have demonstrated that he's willing to make a deal if you're not actually competing with him. Creating sales for him in a market space he's not operating in is exactly how he's talked about desirable partners in the past.

    6. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may be an embeded developer of some kind , but guess what else you are , a troll :O and a farily crap one .. come on Ive seen better 12 year old trolls on irc shouting "GAY MEN" and running off

    7. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I am wondering if Apple might come out with a Mac Micro next. A Mac mini without an optical drive or hard drive set to boot from one of Apples servers. For Schools and big companies it could be just the thing. The users could keep their data on the server or a USB drive. Less to break or steal. It could be made very simple to manage as well. Sort of a thin client done right.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    8. Re:it's part of the reason i bought one (kind of') by nicolas.e · · Score: 1

      of course in order to do so with similar performace you need a machine weighing at 7lbs veruses the 15" power book at 5.6

      Thinkpad T42p
      OK, it is 5.9 lbs instead of 5.6, but the powerbook doesn't come to its foot.

      You need to carry a spare battery to last roughly the same amout of time on the battery.

      I can't find the spec, but it is about 4 hours. With the extra battery (which stays in the ultradock bay (and you don't have to "carry")), the battery life is 12 hours.

      And unless you are running Windows your Driver support is flaky at best.

      And unless you are running OS X your Driver support is flaky at best.
      By the way, check this out.

  4. OS X "Lite" by bhima · · Score: 3, Interesting
    One of the things I've been coveting since the MiniMac came out is a OS X Lite sort of thing. I thought Win98Lite was probably the most interesting windows thing going when it was current. I really do think a MiniMac could be a great, really cheap reference platform.

    Having said all of that I'm looking forward to PART II!

    --
    Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    1. Re:OS X "Lite" by BeerCat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with a "lite" version is what do you take out? Two different people might both want a cut down version (especially if it cost less), but person A might want to retain a certain feature that person B thought was not required.

      An alternative would be a "what do you not want / need" installer which would run when the machine was first powered up. It would have to include a short sentence or two to explain why you might want to throw out feature X.

      At present, an OS X custom install has a few options (like foreign languages, printer drivers, X windows, BSD subsystem and so on), but nothing as radical as "don't need this - remove"

      --
      "She's furniture with a pulse"
    2. Re:OS X "Lite" by forkazoo · · Score: 1

      If there was a hack for the window manager to turn off rounded windows and drop-shadows, I think that would be nifty. I generally run 3D type things that reall would run better if the general UI wasn't using a significant amount of the video card's power...

    3. Re:OS X "Lite" by CameronGary · · Score: 1

      What the frack is a MiniMac ? This reminds of people who say "American Online" instead of America Online ...

    4. Re:OS X "Lite" by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 4, Funny

      What the frack is a MiniMac ? This reminds of people who say "American Online" instead of America Online ...

      That's not so bad. I work in retail, and I have to put up with people who say "98 Windows" on a regular basis. Also note that "Lexmark" is frequently mis-pronounced as "Lensmark", "Lamar", and, inexplicably, "Linux". Were it not for my Jedi training, I fear I might do something rather violent to these people.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
    5. Re:OS X "Lite" by biglig2 · · Score: 1

      It's called FreeBSD. Enjoy!

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    6. Re:OS X "Lite" by grunherz · · Score: 1

      OS X "Lite"

      Not sure exactly what you really need, but 'Simple Finder' came instantly to mind when i saw "OS X lite."

      We use it for a lot of the Graphic Artists here who can't be bothered to learn the new OS after upgrading their systems from OS 9.3.

      You create a new user and under 'Limitations' set up a "Simple Finder"

      Viola ... OS X Lite.

      --
      Four weeks, Twenty papers, that's two dollars ... plus tip.
    7. Re:OS X "Lite" by Draoi · · Score: 1
      One of the things I've been coveting since the MiniMac came out is a OS X Lite sort of thing.

      Well, you can download it right here!

      Just download the Darwin sources, strip out all the bits you don't need from the kernel (not that difficult, as much of it is modular). You don't necessarily need a GUI for embedded, either.

      --
      Alison

      "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein

    8. Re:OS X "Lite" by mah! · · Score: 1
      after upgrading their systems from OS 9.3.

      Wow, 9.3! Do you have access to some unpublished version of the Classic Mac OS?

      Viola ... OS X Lite.

      Viola? I thought music was more related to that other Apple company ...or were you thinking of et voilà?

    9. Re:OS X "Lite" by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

      Ahh, it's called 'Darwin' and you can download it for free. Instead of Quartz you can use the included framebuffer or standard X11.

      Esentially, Darwin is a super-modern BSD with a totally revamped device driver structure, more modern multithreaded startup scripting, a high-performance balanced-tree filesystem with journaling and metadata, included compiler, fantastic hardware support, advanced networking with configd, OpenDirectory for LDAP and AD integration, and self-tuning performance features.

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    10. Re:OS X "Lite" by grunherz · · Score: 1

      Wow the thread police is out in full force today.

      9.3 was a typo dude, get over yourself.

      --
      Four weeks, Twenty papers, that's two dollars ... plus tip.
    11. Re:OS X "Lite" by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1

      Check out ShadowKiller from Unsanity.

      --

      Constitutionally Correct

  5. And with the price... by jnetsurfer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And with the price of the Mac Mini, it's a great way for Unix/Linux developers to test ports of their software to Darwin/OS X, or a great way to learn Cocoa or Mac programming in general.

  6. How does it go again... by iluvcapra · · Score: 5, Funny

    No 9 pin, less space than a Cappucino. Lame. :)

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  7. BRIQ by vasqzr · · Score: 5, Interesting


    What happened to the briQ or whatever from YellowDog?

    1. Re:BRIQ by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 5, Informative
      What happened to the briQ or whatever from YellowDog?
      They priced themselves right out of the market. They were asking about $1300, if memory serves, for a 400Mhz G3, and about $500 more to upgrade it to a G4. And that was after their "big price drop." It reminded me of the old joke about trying to make a profit from each of your customers, as opposed to from all of them.
  8. that would make it by b17bmbr · · Score: 3, Funny

    the world's biggest wristwatch

    --
    My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
  9. not written by a Macintosh expert, and that's cool by javaxman · · Score: 4, Interesting
    You know what's most interesting to me about this article? The fact that it's written by a guy who is clearly not actually very expert on things Apple. I find the fact that he's not seriously an Apple guy very cool, and very indicative that Apple's really done something different with the introduction of the Mac mini.

    Don't get me wrong, he knows what's up, but... it's not clear he's an expert in some of the more subtle areas, like Open Firmware- the 'zap the PRAM three times' function is supposed to clear the Open Firmware password, as an example. He seems to be more of an embedded systems guy rather than an Apple hardware geek, that's all.

  10. TAMS 3011 MOAB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I would have loved to use a Mac Mini for this home-brewed embedded project I have. Unfortunately, the Mac Mini has no PCI support. Instead I'm now using a TAMS 3011 MOAB. It's not as good of a value as a Mac Mini and has some limitations, but it does have PCI.

  11. Oh well... by curious.corn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    very true, a mini is a hell of a cool device but I only wish for someone to discover an unfinished header port on the mini's logic board and find out it's a JTAG. Now, that'd make the mini the most 'leet toy ever (it makes debugging a live OS the same as with your user level app... but you can mess with the ram, chipset, CPU, rollback contexts, like the CPU light panels on '70 room sized mainframes... wet dreams... wet dreams ;-) )

    --
    Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
  12. Not to rain on the parade, but... by Space+cowboy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ... it's a bloody expensive embedded system - most of these are $1-200, not $500. The popular ones are $100 (Rabbit, Arm, AVR, PIC)

    Don't get me wrong, I think the Mac mini is just fabulous, but you'd have to have a damn good reason to pay the premium over more traditional embedded systems...

    Simon

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
    1. Re:Not to rain on the parade, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ummm... PIC, AVR, dude, those are pee shooters, of course they are going to be cheaper, they aren't even in the same league. You cannot find a single board computer that runs at 1.25 Ghz, has 256 MB DDR, 32MB Graphics, firewire, USB, 100BaseT, etc. for the same price as the mini. Freescale has their MPC5200 Lite board with a 400 Mhz PowerPC processor for $1000.

    2. Re:Not to rain on the parade, but... by Space+cowboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      And a huge percentage of the embedded market is done with those 'pea shooters' . My point is that in the embedded market, speed/RAM size, whatever isn't anywhere near as important. Cost is.

      If you wanted a consumer-grade device, there may be an argument, but embedded is (very!) rarely such a resource hog. There is also always a mini-itx type for $100->$200 depending on what you want. Ok, add $40 for 256 MB RAM, and it runs a little slower at (up to) 1GHz but you do get firewire, USB, 100-BASET (up to 4 of them IIRC), TV out, MPEG hardware decoding, LVDS i/o, general purpose i/o (important in embedded), FIR, CIR, audio jacks, and access to more disks...

      Or you could pay 2-5 times the price and get a mini (with a DVD-ROM bundled).

      Simon

      --
      Physicists get Hadrons!
    3. Re:Not to rain on the parade, but... by feloneous+cat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      it's a bloody expensive embedded system - most of these are $1-200, not $500. The popular ones are $100 (Rabbit, Arm, AVR, PIC)

      Yup. I've done all of them but AVR. Different type of embedded.

      For example, for $250 we have a Geode running at 233 Mhz. For similar footprint (and faster clock) we are talking in the $500 range or more.

      Rabbit runs like a pig compared Mac.

      --
      IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
    4. Re:Not to rain on the parade, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless of course...you shop around
      http://www.orbitmicro.com/

  13. How fast does it boot? by bergeron76 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the major draws to embedded boards is the boot time.

    Unless it beats my current 3 second embedded solution, I won't be investing in it as an option.

    --
    Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
  14. OSX == OSX Lite by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Informative

    OSX is built on Darwin, the BSD/Mach core.

    But drop to a shell and look around - everything is Unix, you can tweak the text-based config files, specify which extensions load, which daemons start, whatever you want.

    There's no voodoo here - so no need for Win98Lite style utilities.

    If you want a simple GUI use X11. If you want Aqua, set autologin and remove all the apps that shouldn't be there.

    For embedded, the cost of Aqua over X11 (OSX over Darwin) may be too high, especially if you can source Mini motherboards directly.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  15. Re:Nope by bussdriver · · Score: 2, Insightful

    HIGH-END embedded systems.
    they are NOT cheap.

    --
    Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
  16. Re:http://OCx4Free.PocketPCs4Free.com/index.php?re by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uh-huh, so do you guys like it? I think Im pretty sexay!

  17. How about as a embedded development host? by Onnimikki · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the nice things about doing embedded development on Windows boxes is the availability of cheap parallel-port BDM/JTAG interfaces, like Macraigor's Wiggler. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an easy way to connect these to the USB ports of any Mac (the parallel port to USB converters that are used for printers reportedly don't work). I'm looking forward to the day that I can buy a cheap USB-compatible Wiggler that GDB can talk to.

    1. Re:How about as a embedded development host? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I totally agree. There is a whole mac-hosted-embedded market out there waiting to be tapped. I've been waiting for embedded tools on a mac since I first started useing 0S X a couple of years ago. Maybe metrowerks will come out with something...

  18. Re:not written by a Macintosh expert, and that's c by David+Leppik · · Score: 1
    You know what's most interesting to me about this article? The fact that it's written by a guy who is clearly not actually very expert on things Apple.


    He's not exactly a novice. He does mention that zapping the PRAM three times is supposed to do extra things, but claims that might be superstition-- he does mention that he hasn't had to do that on a "modern machine," I don't know exactly what that means, but I suspect the last time he zapped the PRAM was when his G3 tower was high-end.



    A little background about Seebs: he's been on Usenet since junior high (the mid-1980s), which in this case means using Unix on a VAX. He's used Macs for decades, though his primary machine has typically run Unix. (Even though OS X is BSDish, he still does a lot on straight FreeBSD.) And lately he's been doing a lot of embedded work. For the record, I'm the one who gave him the news about the Mac Mini, and I did have my pinky in the side of my mouth and called it mini-mac.
  19. The mac isn't limited to one button by arete · · Score: 2, Insightful

    MacOS has supported _12_ mouse buttons for years - it might be more now. Of course, this is assuming the application has something to do with 12 mouse buttons.

    Here's what you do: Buy a mac mini. Buy a USB mouse with more buttons. Plug it in. Done.

    Apple specifies that basic application functions should be available with a single button - so that novice users can always use the apps, and to discourage arbitrarily hiding functions in context-menus.

    Generally the context-menu (right-click) is ALSO mapped to ctrl-click. The middle click is mapped also, but I can't remember if it's mapped to option/alt or to cmd/appl.

    As to Photoshop - compared to PCs, I think they're essentially even, because Macs have an additional modifier button - shift cmd/appl, option/alt and ctrl

    --
    Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
    1. Re:The mac isn't limited to one button by HiredMan · · Score: 1

      Here's what you do: Buy a mac mini. Buy a USB mouse with more buttons. Plug it in.

      Step three? There is no step three!
      Umm.... I mean four.
      There's is no step four.

      =Tod K

      --
      Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
  20. Dual Ethernet Ports by eluusive · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd buy one if it had two ethernet ports. Think of what a leat--yet small--router you could have. My current webserver/router/firewall/dhcp/dns/etc server is a 466mhz celeron I found in a dumpster and replaced the hard drive on. heh. At least it has two NIC cards though.

    1. Re:Dual Ethernet Ports by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      I'd buy one if it had two ethernet ports. Think of what a leat--yet small--router you could have. My current webserver/router/firewall/dhcp/dns/etc server is a 466mhz celeron I found in a dumpster and replaced the hard drive on. heh. At least it has two NIC cards though.

      Consider a USB NIC. I wouldn't want to rely on one for anything mission-critical, but for home use it should be fine.

      Of course you can also run multiple IPs on the same NIC, plug your DSL/cable modem into the LAN switch, and trust the switch not to broadcast all your LAN traffic to your ISP (don't try this with a hub).

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    2. Re:Dual Ethernet Ports by feloneous+cat · · Score: 1

      Consider a USB NIC. I wouldn't want to rely on one for anything mission-critical, but for home use it should be fine.

      Do you know of one that works? The one that I have at the house doesn't.

      --
      IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
  21. Re:not written by a Macintosh expert, and that's c by j!mmy+v. · · Score: 1

    Zapping the PRAM doesn't reset the OF passwd. Assuming a password is set, you need physical access to the mainboard.

    A four-key-at-boot workaround would make OF passwd sercurity a bit useless, wouldn't it?

    --
    -- often wrong; never in doubt
  22. Re:not written by a Macintosh expert, and that's c by javaxman · · Score: 1
    Oh, yea, like I said, he knows his stuff... and has been using Macs for a long, long time. I was just trying to point out that it's not his area of expertise per se- he actually reads like more of an embedded systems guy, or, as it turns out, a FreeBSD/*nix guy, and my point was that, hey, cool, the Mac mini has him and other like him looking at Apple hardware again. Which is good for Apple.

    You guys are not alone on the desire to call it a mini-mac. I have to try really hard to type "Mac mini"... I think "big M-a-c little mini" or I get it all wrong ( including the capitalization, it's branded to match the iPod mini ). Steve and company wanted to brand it like that for some sort of reason ( they don't want it to be percieved as a joke, I guess ), but it'll always be the mini-mac to us, eh?

  23. The Apple Newton "Right Click" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the Apple Newton, to draw a contextual menu, one needs to do a "tap and a half." The user taps quickly, and then taps again holding the pen to the screen.
    I suppose that this could be interprited as a "right click." Although, whether that is an option-click, apple-click, or control click... is anone's guess.

  24. Better than a self-hosted web-cam by JawzX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Mac Mini (w/ airport) + iSight + Darwin Streaming Server = Kicks any self-hosted web-cam's ass. As matter of fact we just did one of these for a local bar. It was a little more expensive than a self hosted cam, but it does synched audio, supports simultanious streams at different bandwidths, and can handle more than twice the user load. It sits headless on a shelf high on a wall, the iSight right next to it, it connects to the network wirelessly and we VNC into it... it's a perfect comodity device!

    --
    A Call For A New Slashdot Moderation Level!
  25. I have to authorize purchases, and... by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 3, Informative
    The only problem with using an Apple box as an embedded platform is this: By the time you release your product, based on the Mini, Apple will discontinue it and start developing something else.

    The iMac got replaced. The Mac Cube is long gone. The lampshade is on its way out. Apple constantly innovates and comes out with something new. In embedded systems, you need something that probably isn't as exciting as an Apple system, but that will remain stable and available for years to come, with no or minimal changes. Otherwise, you are asking for trouble.

    As NASA said, test what you fly and fly what you test. You can't design something, change the computer at the last minute, and expect it to be fine, even if all the software still works. There are electrical noises, temperature considerations, EMI, RFI, and all kinds of other fun things that will keep you chasing shadows for months. Embedded projects fail over this kind of thing.

    I would LOVE to use some Apple box in an embedded system... but Apple would have to release such a box as one that is INTENDED for embedded applications, and they would need to promise continued production for a number of years.

  26. Jedi training? by game+kid · · Score: 1

    Tell 'em "These are not the names you are looking for."

    Better yet, screw the Jedi training and slash 'em. Then give their families a free printer two days after.

    (If Yoda asks, blame it on those midi-chlorians.)

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  27. Re:not written by a Macintosh expert, and that's c by seebs · · Score: 1

    I own about a half-dozen macs. I know what zapping the PRAM officially does. I also know that people in comp.sys.mac.system will recommend it for anything from "machine won't boot" to "SCSI termination problems". I don't know whether it has side-effects that we don't really know about.

    I'm not exactly a Mac expert, but I do write about 'em a lot.

    --
    My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
  28. after years with 2 and 3 buttons, by circusboy · · Score: 1

    I have come to appreciate using key chords. it keeps my left hand busier and has cut way down on the tendinitis pain I had with 2 and 3 button dependency.

    it does get ridiculous in 3D applications though where with things like houdini and maya etc. you have chords with both the mouse AND the keyboard.

    oddly, one of apple's own products, (though only recently purchased,) shake, REQUIRES the use of a 3 button mouse. this if nothing else should convince people that macs and apple are fully conversant with multiple button mice. (this does make it a pain to run shake on a laptop, but the 3 buttons on your average Wacom tablet are better.)

    and to the grand parent, as far as I know, multiple selections on windows with a 2 or 3 button mouse still requres the use of shift of control. has this changed

    --
    -- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
  29. About using a "Happy Hacking Keyboard" on this by rfc1394 · · Score: 1

    In one of the articles for this small computer it was noted you can get a "Happy Hacking keyboard" to use with it instead of a regular sized one. I looked at the price of the Happy Hacking keyboard and was shocked. Can anyone explain why someone would pay upwards of US$125.00 for a keyboard which is slightly smaller than usual ones when a typical regular size keyboard, brand new, sells for US$3.95? (That's what I paid about a month ago at Micro Center for the brand-new keyboard I am using right now and that they are still selling.) Are the esthetics of a smaller keyboard worth 30 times the price? And why someone would pay over $125.00 for a keyboard for a machine that costs $495.00?

    --
    The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.