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How Much Respect Do You Get?
droidlev asks: "In our continually fluctuating economy I have seen a drastic change in the level of respect that I receive. As a technician I've grown accustomed to a heightened level of respect when I walk into a client's office. Not to say that I have a God complex, however, it feels good to walk into a room and be appreciated. I'm passionate for the computer work that I do; I'm 'GEEK' for it. People know that I'm there to help and solve their problems. There is good amount of value in this extra level of appreciation and respect. This is especially true when you are developing business relationships (and of course it never hurts to be liked). In recent times, however, I've been cast in a different light; actually more like a darkened shadow. I am now seen as a necessary evil instead of the 'all powerful technician.' So I ask what your experiences have been, either as a computer technician or another professional? Have you seen a change in the level of respect that you receive?"
"Businesses are trying to save every penny they have. Unless something significant goes wrong, they handle a situation themselves. This only compounds the severity of a problem. By the time I get there, everything has gone to hell and I get a look (the it's-all-your-fault look) from every cubicle and every office. In the past, exceptionally dedicated service translated to loyal clients that didn't mind paying a little bit more. Once I was the problem solver, now it seems I am yet another flame to burn their money."
Granted there are ups and downs in the industry at large and variations from employer to employer, but by far the most significant factor in determining the level of respect people show you at work is your own conduct. If you've noticed that the people at work suddenly seem to respect you less, IMO the first place you need to look is at your own conduct. Are you really working and behaving in a way that earns and demands respect? Overall, this shakes out into two basic keys:
1. Earn respect. Know your stuff, be willing to help people out and be someone that people can stand. Own your responsibilities. At the same time, don't try to be an expert in matters you don't really understand and don't try to force your big nose into other peoples' work. Be that guy that people want to work with and want on their team. It's perpetually amazing to me that such a high percentage of people in the professional world (not just geeks) fall down on one or more of these three and then act shocked when people hate dealing with them because they're either incompetent or impossible to work with (which amounts to more or less the same thing).
2. Demand respect. There are always going to be people who try to make you do something or bypass you or whatever by running over or around you. Don't stand for this -- be professional, be polite and (if it's someone up the foodchain from you) remember your place, but leave it crystal clear that in matters where you hold responsibility, you will not be cut out and you will not be strongarmed. This is an attitude, and it's not "respect mah authoritah!" attitude that I see a lot from geeks.
Competence and confidence are the keys to garnering and maintaining the respect of your coworkers. Really, they're the keys to success at life in general.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
We lived threw a change in the way that IT is viewed. It changed rather quickly too. Back in the late 90s early 2000 IT and Techs were seen as the bringer of new and terrific stuff that is supposed to make their life better. Now that most everyone has got all this stuff that supposed to make there lives better they found out it only allowed them to do more and harder (So except spending a day typing out the pay role, you are now Printing the payroll and managing benefits.) work for the same pay. So you are no longer the guy who will bring a company tons of money threw web sales, but the guy who needs to make sure the now built website doesn't crash, and if it did then there is lost money. So you are now considered an expense, or as best a long term expense to lower TCO. We are no longer money makers. That is why some "Programmers" with High school degrees who said they knew HTML got these 100k a year jobs, making crappy web pages because these web pages were to make the company money so they saw these web developers as technical marketing department. But now after the infrastructure is set up and they realized they didn't need Joe Smo "HTML is Frontpage right?" we became an expense. It is not that we personally lost the respect of people. But we are no longer looked upon as money makers. But more like a power bill, or a maintenance crew.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
How much do respect do you get OUTSIDE the office?
The sad thing is, you can save the day, but in the end, you're still a 'computer geek'
When the IT staff starts nailing hot secretaries and interns, instead of goldchain wearing middle managers, you'll impress us.
Really, the aura of godliness geeks had has been gone for years.
We're not really all that special, we never were.
It's just a job, man.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
I found that the respect i get is a function of personal relationships with those individuals and not really a function of what i did. People who arent technical tend not to look at our craft as fondly as we tend to do, they dont see the things that we see in it, and therefore it often doesnt hold the same appeal or respect. Those who do show that respect often respect you as a person or have an affinity for technology and can appreciate what you do more than the norm. Either way, even if you sweep the floor, and you do it to the best of your ability and treat those around you with respect, youll tend to get it in return. And ask yourself, if you expect them to be in awe of you just for walking in the room, how much do you really respect them?
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
I found I get more respect when I loudly shout "frist psot" as soon as I enter the room
Or, at the very least, mod points.
I can hear the standup routine now:
"The other day I was compiling a program. The compiler said there were 2 errors, 16 warnings, and 1 moron behind the keyboard. T'm telling you, I don't get no respect."
RIP Mr. Dangerfield.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
I've noticed one big difference. When a geek asks me what I do, I've been able to give the same answer since 1998: "I work full time for a company maintaining their sites with ASP and SQL Server." Here's a chronology of the responses:
.NET these days. Besides, you'll be laid off in a week just like me. And Oracle's the bomb, it's worth every penny."
1998: "What's ASP?"
1999: "ASP sucks, man. It's too hard."
2000: "Wow, can I learn ASP? How hard is it? Because I've never done computer work, but I hear it makes a lot of money."
2001: "Ha! ASP? You suck, that's so old-school. You won't have a job in a couple of years. I got a job at Pets.com making twice your salary, and I'm just a receptionist."
2002: "ASP sucks, man. It's all about
2003: "ASP sucks, man. It's all about PHP these days. And MySQL's the bomb. It'll have stored procedures any day now." (Sorry, just had to throw that one in.)
2004: "ASP sucks, man. It's all about J2EE these days."
2005: "Wow, you have a full time job? Because I'm a programmer and I can't find a job to save my ass."
What's your damage, Heather?
Being tall helps, too.
Seriously... I'm 6'5", which means that I'm taller than a good 95% of the people that I meet. I think that something in the reptilian part of the brain tells people to be cautious of people/animals bigger than themselves. As much as I hate to admit it, it's a cultural advantage that I was born with.
But, if this alone doesn't get your respect, you can also hold tree branches above your head to appear taller to predators. This works great in an office setting, and most clients never expect it!
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
IT has changed from implementation to maintenence from the 90s to 2005. Not to be offensive, but when you're maintaining a system or installing updates, or making the network run smoothly, you're nothing more than a lowly technician, someone who has mastered a trade. Rather than bringing forth the unknown as technicians did in the 90s, they are just doing something that someone else doesn't want to spend time doing. When technology was new, there was a mystique in understanding how these computers run. But that mystique is long-gone. Just as in the early days of electricity, it seemed so new to commonfolk, and electricians were seen as magicians for knowing how it worked and how it can be fixed.
If you want more respect for what you do, do something beyond maintaining systems or technician work. Do something that requires intelligence to design the systems. Mystique fades quickly once everyone gets used to the technology and you're not the one propelling it forward.
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
The 1980s through to today have been a spectacular time for American business. The stock markets have grown like never before. Business people, managers, and financial folk have been praised for being the backbone of a growing economy.
But there's a sad truth, evident to anyone who has dipped into that world... and that is, except for their brown-nosing skills and personal connections, business people, management, financial/accountants are mostly useless. It's questionable whether they have any real skills. And now society is starting to question whether these people have any value in the real sense of the word.
The modern satires (e.g. Dilbert) exist for a reason. It baffles people how the "flapping heads" or "PHBs" can be the ones in control, earnings the high salaries. You see, in the past few decades everyone wanted to become managers. And my personal belief is that the business world is starting to crumble because companies overweight in managers and associated staff lack tangible manpower, the power to get real business done.
So you technicians, engineers, and other professionals who can actually do real things... never you worry. Ultimately, you are the ones who have the skills to accomplish what society needs. The market of yesterday - for idiot managers, corrupt accountants - is coming to an end (though it may take some time).
You're accurate about genuine respect.
There is however displayed respect. That special kind that gets displayed whether you're actually deserving of it or not.
This is the kind that gets displayed to an utterly incompetent CEO (to his face at least) because, well, he signs the checks and, whether you respect him or not, if you piss him off, you're screwed.
During the dotcom boom, most IT people got the displayed kind automatically. I remember being outright told, "You don't need to worry about HR and viewing unsafe sites. In the current economy, we can't replace you. You piss them off, they recommend you're fired, we refuse to do so because we can't lose you. End of story."
If a client pissed you off and you quit - or refused to work for them - it was [perceived as] way too hard to get someone else in. Thus they sucked up and displayed respect whether they felt like it or not.
It's a logical OR statement:
Genuine and Displayed: Respect is shown.
Genuine only: Respect is shown.
Displayed only: Respect is shown.
Neither: You're screwed.
What sucks for many in the IT field is that they were never really deserving of genuine respect, they just got the displayed kind because IT salaries were so nuts. Now the boom has burst and starving developers are [perceived as] a dime a dozen, they no longer qualify for the displayed kind. Thus, if you were genuinely deserving of respect, you continue to gain be shown it. If you were only ever getting the displayed kind - well, you don't merit it anymore.
Of course there's one other aspect to it. Scott Adams calls it the way of the weasel. Genuine respect still requires genuine people. In the typical workplace, many people will show respect if you genuinely deserve it - but there are still plenty of cretins who will screw anyone over, deserving or not, if it suits them. For them, whether you warrant genuine respect or not, they'll only ever show it to you if you warrant the displayed kind as, otherwise, you're not helping them directly and they can, therefore will, screw you.
We have gone from the guy who saved them from their ignorange, since everything was so brand new and they felt stupid, to the equivalent of the plumber or phone guy.
:)
Since the technology isn't that new anymore, they don't feel dumb anymore when it breaks. Everyone "knows" that it's Microsoft's fault and nothing they did could ever cause this much distruction.
How many times did you hear customers belittle themselves while you tried to defend their dignity: "No, no, it's nothing you could have prevented. Oh, no, you're not that stupid. This is hard." It's the only time I've ever heard so many millionaires and businessmen call themselves idiots.
And now? They don't even want to know how it works, "just fix it" is the reply. No more apologizing for their stupidity.
Maybe everyone finally realized that they're not stupid after all. Or maybe, they're tired of software breaking when it's not their fault. Parhaps this is OUR fault for telling them for years that, no, they didn't do anything, they're not stupid. Perhaps it's time to go back to confirming a person's insecurities.
Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
I also find that banging pots together and lighting fires will usually keep fellow office workers at bay as well. I'm just getting tired of having to tie my lunch to really high trees to keep them from bothering me in the first place.
You can get great respect for performing your job brilliantly, or you may be ignored. Yet it will not really change your position substantially.
Suppose someone at a fast food restaurant does a bang-up job of serving your food - gets the order right, the food is prepared perfectly. You respect him. But do you think he's now in the same tier as you? Maybe you'll give him a few extra bucks, but you probably won't invite him to your parties and you'd feel pretty weird if your graduate-school educated sister went out with him.
Well, that goes in both directions. Your B-school educated manager, or PhD-awarded engineer or researcher, is going to give you respect for a job well done. But if you think that translates into access to a new tier of status and esteem, think again. A lot of IT geeks think that their mastery over one piece of infrastructure should translate into general esteem for their intellectual prowess, but that's as much driven by resentment and an inability to understand what's really going on around them as anything.
The are no more Priests of the Temples of Syrinx (obscure Rush reference).
That's not obscure. If you called us all Narpets, or said that Rocinante finally made it through the other side, THOSE are obscure Rush references.
sorry for the nitpick, please carry on...
1980s--> Ridiculed Computer Nerd
/. love to romanticize about our geekiness, only us geeks appreciate it. Nobody else gives a shit about you or me except you or me.
1995 --> Socially Defunct Internet Junkie
1998 --> All-Powerful, Universally Loved and Admired Icon of Intellectual Prowess and Thinkgeek Humour
1999 --> Profit!!!
2000s--> Returning to Ridiculed Computer Nerd / Socially Defunct Internet Junkie
Sorry man... as much as we all here on
do() || do_not();
This only makes sense. An increasing proportion of people who use computers come from the general population. In relation to computing professionals, their position is increasingly that of consumers rather than colleagues. The traditional respect for a professional which is based on an informed recognition of ability is bound to suffer.
That's one main factor, as I see it. The other is that our culture is going through a characteristic phase of technology change in which adoption is followed by social disruption. The same process happened as agriculture transformed social structure, and again during the industrial revolution. This time around, we have other major forces of social disruption at play as well, including globalization, the inversion of market and social values, and the accumulation of ecological effects which began with the previous two revolutions.
Some of these forces are pretty abstract, even though their effects are not. But the force of technological change is manifest in an unprecedented flood of new artifacts into people's lives. As bearers of that change, we make a very visible target for frustration not only with the artifacts and their mysterious technology, but with disruptive forces in general. Our very competence can become a liability.
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
So my boss tried to console me with some lip-service: the engineers are more valuable than the managers. You see, the company can find a new manager without too much trouble, but replacing an engineer, someone who can come in and pick up the hardware and the code, is much more difficult. This led to the obvious question: if the engineers are so valuable, why don't we get the huge bonuses and stock options?
I'll let you guess at his answer, but here's a hint: I updated my resume that night.
-paul
Pistol caliber is like religion: everyone has their favourite, and theirs is the only right choice.
Your statement is very true. I want to point something out though: Disrespect is also earned. _Every_ human being _deserves_ a measure of simple human dignity. To treat someone with less than simple human dignity is uncalled for unless that person has wronged you. (Please not I'm not implying that the statement you made [respect is earned] is in any way in contradiction with my statement [dignity is universal, disrespect also being earned])
This subtle distinction seems lost on so many people I have dealt with. This isn't courtesy, it's basic.
<rant> This is the one thing I wish I could have impressed upon my peers and teachers and principals in grade school: that although respect is earned, DIGNITY is INHERENT. Until someone steps on your toes, it is wrong for you to attack them. Treating someone with dignity doesn't detract from how tough or cool or whatever you are. Treating anyone without dignity when you have no reason just makes you an ass.</rant>
This may be a little OT as I am referring to ALL social interaction and not just that with techs and geeks, but I have seen the statement "Respect is earned" abused so commonly to mean "dignity is earned" that my emotions just go nuclear every time I see it remembering childhood injustices. The sentiment may seem obvious, but alas it appears not to be. It would be worth my life to see it codified, at least socially.
Keep the R-E-S-P-E-C-T, all I ask is dig-ni-ty. Is that so wrong?
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
I thought about posting a story like this many many times since 2001.
Yah, we're no longer cool. It was happening before 2001, anyone working in a dying dot com could tell you that. More recently however it just seems like folks do not want to pay for my services.
Back around 98, I had no problems negotiating a good salary. If a company wasn't treating me right, i'd simple put my resume out on monster.com or fax it out, and i'd have 1/2 a dozen job offers within a week.
Some of the first few companies I worked at were great. My opinions were valued, and I was often given enough freedom in my job to do what was needed for a smooth running network.
Then around 99-2k things started falling apart. More and more my job function was being scrutinized. It felt like I was in constant competition with my managers to prove my worth.
2001, 9/11, massive layoffs, I just sort of got lost in the sea of resumes that were being pumped out by people not even in IT trying to get a decent paying job. I think this is where folks really started losing respect for IT as a whole. It wasn't the whole phony plumbers with a MCSE making it bad for us, it was the accountants, MBAs, former executives, and salespeople getting these positions, simply because they could put on a better face to HR and hiring managers than most of us socially inept geeks could. They were taking our jobs, and making us look bad with their lack of understanding for the role.
Eventually, I went into private consulting. Started my own company and picked up a few clients here and there. At first my rate was $75@hr, then $60, then $50. I went as low as $30 for one of my clients (They would pre-pay 10 hours a month) Even there, I got myself into a contract that was definetly more benificial for the client than it was myself.
The last client I dropped had 5 offices spread around the bay area, with one all the way in Redding. God damn, what a mess though.
The owner of the company insisted his employees had administrative access to their own machines. Every month those 10 hours of support would be eaten up by running ad-aware on thier spyware laden machines. Originally the contract was just for 3 offices, but when the new offices were brought online, their employees would call me for support. Being I'm a nice guy, i'd happily do what I could over the phone for them.
Things really fell apart when the Redding office came online though.
I had an injury that made me immobile. The office manager for the Redding office, and the owner of the company kept calling me up saying it needed to be done that week, and they were threatening to bring in another tech if I couldn't get that office online that week. I asked many times, "Hey, are you sure that office is ready?" I didn't want to lose that customer, so I told them I would subcontract another tech to go up there and be my remote hands.
Part of their setup is homebuilt routers and freeswan VPN's. Despite my debilitating condition, I spent the night before sending my tech up there preparing the client machines. They had no data for me on the DSL. The office manager LIED and told me they had DSL ready to go up there, but she just pretended to be a ditz and couldn't click start>run>cmd>ipconfig. She just kept telling me it wasn't working but she could browse the web just fine.
Well, Redding is about 500 miles from where I live. Did I mention that yet? No, I guess not..
My tech gets up there and the building has no power. There are no phone lines set up. Construction guys are working on generators. The floor was still bare uncarpeted cement. No furniture, No DSL, no desks to set the client PC's up on, nothing. Just a bare building. My tech called me up freaking out. There wasn't anything he could do.
So he did the best he could, even staying an extra day to wait for the DSL company (frontiernet I think) to get out there and at least get us a dial tone into the building.
Again, just t
In the words of johnathan frakes: "Good god it's JUST A SHOW!"
Read jack phelps dot net
I wish to coin a phrase, if no one else has done so.
We are now "Janitors of th Microsoft Plumbing"
And why are we viewed with such disdain? Imagine how you would feel about your plumber if you had to call him in two or three times a week to unclog your stopped toilet.
People expect computers to be a consumer appliance that "just works". We get a share of the blame for the appallingly low quality of shrink-wrapped software that is barely beta-test status when shipped to production users. (Test the software?- that's what users are for; Configuration Cotnrol? - that would dip into profits, let the DLLs crash, they can always reboot)
You want respect - install OSS software that doesn't crash, and get paid for adding value in the design process, instead of billing hours for reaming the t3rds out of the M$ toilet.
"Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
There's one problem with explaining things nicely. It's really, really hard to do.
...
Prepare for huge blanket statements
Why are programmers usually geeky properllerheads with little social skills? Probably because they stare at code all day. Did you hire them to smooze?
Why are sales guys finger shooting suits? Probably because they sell things to people who don't want to spend money, smooth out issues and network all day. Did you hire them to be introverted and shy?
Sorry to generalize but IT people are bitter because the job is fighting fires all day. Make a sales guy code for a year and most will start watching Star Wars and have little to say at parties. Make a developer sling deals and pitch to high powered VPs and I bet people think he's greasy and fake. I'm stereo-typing in a major way but I've seen really happy people turn sour in a position like helpdesk/desktop support.
It's just a thankless job where you only can dump on your PC/desktop vendor. People seek power and bottom rung is no fun for most.
What we have here is a model of authority that is culturally implanted in each of us.
That's why I wear black SWAT BDU's, combat boots, and mirror sunglasses to work.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Can I have a +5 insightful?