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NASA Proposes Ending Voyager
darylb writes "NASA is proposing ending the 28-year old Voyager program, which costs a paltry $4mil per year to operate. One of the two Voyager probes is approaching the edge of what can be thought of as the sun's atmosphere (where the solar wind bumps up against interstellar wind), a place where no probe has gone before. Canceling this project means saving almost nothing compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars spent so far. The craft will be out of juice by 2015 in any case, so the marginal cost for the extra, invaluable, data would be minimal." From the article: "NASA officials said the possibility of cutting Voyager and several other long-running missions in the Earth-Sun Exploration Division arose in February, when the Bush administration proposed slashing the division's 2006 budget by nearly one-third -- from $75 million to $53 million."
slashing the division's 2006 budget by nearly one-third -- from $75 million to $53 million.
Well, I guess every million counts. I wonder how that $4 million per year is spent? Could they go into a cost saving
mode (below the 10 full time staff they have working with the probe now) where they basically just collected data from the probe and stashed it for later study or does this thing need
to be actively managed to remain useful?
SPAM
So, this is part of the fundamental problem of moving NASA's focus to entirely manned programs. Scientific projects like Hubble, and robotic exploration are getting shorted because the current administration want to put man on Mars. This of course is right in line with their strategy to remove basic science funding from the picture in favor of projects that have immediate payoff. An unfortunate and ignorant way to view things, but in character with the POTUS. Do the analysis and actually look at the potential scientific payoff from basic science research like the Voyager program, Hubble, basic science support of computer science research that is being cut by DARPA, bioscience research that is being cut in favor of military research or moved into weapons research, reduction in NIH funding etc....etc....etc....
This crowd especially will appreciate the payoffs that basic science research provides. Without basic science research, we would not have the Internet as we know it, we would not have personal computers, and for those that like the games, we most certainly would not have computer graphics as much of the pretty graphics you rely on arose out of basic science mathematical research.
It worries me because in many places in American society (including Slashdot), I see an movement away from intellectual pursuit and a devaluation of those who we have relied on to make the United States a pre-eminent force in international science.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
How many millions has president Bush spent in the War vs Iraq? How many lives?
I've stopped trying to understand these decisions at the gvt. level. They're just not logical.
BUT, NASA has a lot they have to balance right now... the ISS, gettin gthe shuttle back up, replacing the shuttle, and now, thanks to Bush, look at getting back to the moon and Mars (I think they are worth while, just not the way Bush has laid them out)... let's not forget the rovers, too.
There is some amazing data that might get lost, but you pick some programs to cut from that budget, while being expected to further new programs...
Or maybe we could sell it to the ESA, or even GIVE it to them?
Fear sells in america. No one has vision anymore, it's purely politics and consumer spending that drive the U$A. Almighty Dollar, thy will be done...
Sad really, who knows if we would have become the world leader we (sort of) are today if previous administrations had been so blatant in repaying the people that put them in office (corporations, not the rural boobs that are losing their farm subsidies as we speak).
Why is this modded funny? It's not, it's scary. Because it's true.
I'm assuming that this is simple humour, or even a remnant from April 1st.
$22 million is pocket change for a huge number of private americans, let alone for thousands of corporations. I just cannot believe that a project with such a huge public profile (even non-nerds have heard of Voyager) could be axed to save crumbs.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Bush is trying to undermine government. He and his ilk want to reduce government to one tenth its size. They know they can't do that directly; as much as people like to rail against the government, it's always against the other fella's programs, not their own. So instead, he is doing his best to bust the budget and make things so bad that it will have to shrink. At least that's their thinking. It is, as you might suspect, just as flawed as all their other thinking.
Why the war? Not just to finish daddy's war and show how manly he is, but also to run expenses sky high and crowd out the popular programs. Who can argue for kid education or health when national security is at stake?
Why privatize social security? To preempt the small real reforms that would fix it, and to bust the budget.
Why throw out $4M programs producing invaluable results? To show that when tough choices have to be made, he can make them, and to put on a show of trying to cut the budget while the billion dollar wastes continue to bust the other end wide open. It's like a stage magician, waving one hand around to distract the audience while the other hand quietly goes about its nefarious work of switching things around unnoticed.
Infuriate left and right
We can already build something that would do a better job than voyager and overtake it. If we put something together with an Ion engine it would zip past Voyager in a couple years. Save the money from voyager and put it towards something newer and better.
The problem is that we're not going to build anything newer and better. We know where this $4m is going - to help cut the deficit caused by a two-year Iraq occupation and trillion dollar tax cut.
Tristan Yates
The question becomes, how is the 4 million being spent? I can't see there being a lot of equipment upkeep involved, just some receiving equipment. I wonder how much course correction if any is being done. I guess what I'm getting at, is could this be something that could be run like open source with the exception of the receiving equipment? If there is no data being sent to voyager, then maintenance of the receiving equipment could be the only cost. Suppose this equipment could be maintained, and setup in such a way as to provide the data being returned in a free and open matter (XML, raw data, etc). Like the pics that were published first by amateurs not that long ago (I believe from Titan, but I'm too lazy to search for it), the interested people on the interent would surely spend time analyzing and releasing reports/images/summaries for the scientific community, including NASA.
Just a thought, but I think the real question is, if a fund were setup, would NASA and/or the US government let this equipment be run by the public, and what are the real costs.
They're thinking of giving up on Voyager before it runs out of juice to save a few mil? That's like getting nearly to the very bottom of a deep dungeon or cave - you KNOW there's good treasure at the bottom to be had. Giving up right before you get there is madness, pure madness! Hand in your +1 ring mail underoos boys, because you're killing the adventure.
Thinking of a future date when we all have to bite our knuckles and wonder what we all could have discovered if we'd gone a bit farther is a bitter thought to mull over.
Starkle, starkle, little twink.
is alone worth $4 mill/year. It is not in the location they expected it to be. Might be a new cosmic force at work. Who cares - just flush the program.
This fact is neither funny nor scary; it's simply disgusting.
Crunch!
Perhaps, but Voyagers is BEYOND the solar system and it has a 30yr. headstart!
But I still say FUCK Bush. If he thought that the privite sector would pay for it then the next thing we know is everything would go privite and then it would become worn out. People would loose interest and the sexy stuff would get funded, basic stuff that is not sexy (or beyond Jow Sixpack's vision) would not get funded.
It's time. Let it go... I'd rather have the budget money re-allocated to keeping the Huble in orbit for another 4 months - its far more useful.
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
Why is this modded funny? It's not, it's scary. Because it's true.
Don't be a troll. Moderators why is this insightful ?
Instead of making snide unorigial political claims why don't you do some research. People who don't want to see this cut should tell their politicians that a paltry $4 million could be removed from the $121.264 million budget of the NEA.
- "Never let a computer tell me shit." - DelTron Zero
Unfortunately, the Orion Project, although quite probably feasible, would be a direct violation of several treaties our government has signed prohibiting above-ground nuclear detonations.
sigh.
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
They should make the spacecraft data and analysis tools freely available as part of an open-source project. Get the large amateur astronomer contingent involved and save $4M.
What do you think they were hoping for when they gave us tax breaks and massive budget deficits? This. This is what they were hoping for. Now we have a fiscal problem where none existed before, and must destroy valuable federal programs. This is their long term plan coming to fruition. Social security, medicare, and welfare are all going to die, and it's not because they're too expensive.
They also have a long term plan to stop individuals from using the court system. They do this for two reasons. One, they want less accountability for corporations, and second, because the lawyers that work for these individuals are some of the most significant donors to the Democratic party in Texas. So they can simultaneously destroy corporate accountability and the Democratic party in Texas.
The Bush administration is way, way more farsighted than you think. They just have different goals than you do. You want a stronger America. What do they want?
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
The amount of money spent so far has nothing to do with whether we should spend more money. Spent money is gone, no matter what we do. New expenditures should be evaluated on their own merits.
Not really. There are concepts of "cost of entry" and "sunk costs". The fact that it has cost us this much to get a probe out there suggests that it would be very expensive to get another probe out there. That informs our decision as to whether we should continue supporting this probe or sending another one in the future.
Bush, spends so much for war then cuts in science.
The US look more and more like the schollyard bully, no brains, all muscle. that work for a while to dominate ( schoolyard or world) but it the long run you get outsmarted.
It's also (essentially) the crux behind Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Say what you will about it otherwise, that part was spot-on.
"The Power of Nightmares" was an excellent documentary, btw. Some of it seems almost Davinci-Code-ish (ie: tinfoil hat), but let's face it:
When exactly will these "terror alerts" end? Or has the USA resigned itself to living in a perpetual state of terror forever? I guess my rock DOES keep tigers away...
No neo-con has ever been able to explain this to me - and sadly, this sort of thinking is moving into my country (Canada) as well. If we ever have our own 9/11, I shudder to think what this country will do. We've traditionally allowed our governments far more control of our lives than the USA as it is.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
The amount of money spent so far has nothing to do with whether we should spend more money. Spent money is gone, no matter what we do.
Yes and no.
The hundreds of millions already spent got us a half-decent probe out to the heliopause. A small amount of money more might bring us some pretty cool data. If NASA cancels this, and we ever again want to explore the heliopause, we're looking at hundreds of millions *more*, and decades of waiting, just to get another probe out there.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Currently the Federal Government has alot of problems getting the average tax payer to want to spend money on research of any kind. It isn't interesting and most people equate it to spending $115.00 a hammer or research into the medicinal properties of Timber Owl pellets.
Manned Space Exploration in the early years of NASA and the Soft Science of the Apollo Missions was seen as exciting and worth the expense. Support is seriously lagging for any science experiment that doesn't provide great video captions or pictures for the newspaper. Unless you support Soft Science on a Large Scale it is eventually going to be impossible to get money for anything but a better bullet or bomb.
To use a business analogy "You have to spend money to make money." Big Science can only make money by providing a supporting role and then living on the coat tails of Soft Science.
That said Bush is solely show boating the Manned Space Exploration in order to appease Joe Taxpayer's apprehension on spending any money on science. Truth be told unless it means immediate return of investment I doubt 10% of the administration (or the U.S. government) desires to spend money on "Big Science." They spend enough to keep the academics and educated placated.
It is my belief that in that 10% of government who actually care about science research someone decided that the best way to get more research funding in the long run is to get the polarized public interested in space exploration through the Moon, Mars and Beyond program. Without it they understood that thier budget would continue to shrink as the government invested more in the care of aging baby boomers.
--"Sorry for the inconvience." Gods Last Words to his Creation
DNA, So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
NASA's full budget is $16.4 billion -- a 2.4% increase from last year. See it here.
;-)
No offense to you, but how did your post get modded +5 Interesting? I guess the Washington Post does cause illiteracy.
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Bush doesn't care much about knowledge for the sake of knowledge. Heck, he is massively ignorant on just about every topic, and look what it did for him? He has his finger on the button, and you don't.
As far as Bush (or more accurately, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney) are concerned, the purpose of the space program is to dole out dollars to campaign supporters, and that means large aerospace and defense contractors. Progams like data acquisition from Voyager may be good for scientists, but it is chicken feed for Boeing, so funding can safely be cut. Instead, we get SDI, a Maginot line for the 21st century, and the 'man on mars' program both of which guarantee billions of dollars of profit for years to come with no likelihood of any tangible benefit.
In my view, the fundamental problem is that there are significant fears to be faced in the world. But these fears are not new, nor imagined. People look back on older times with a view of the "visions and dreams" that inspired people they ignore the fears they faced. This fear is supposedly newly minted, but in reality, it's ancient.
For example:
My early ancestor (great great great great grandfather) was a reporter who covered the cross-border raids by Panco Villa in the Southern US. My family archives contain sketches and copies of early "photographs" of the carnage of a raid which killed dozens of civilians.
My great grandfather was a military advisor who helped calibrate and tune and build the Maginot line which, during tests, made him virtually deaf in one ear.
My grandparents lived on the east coast of the US, and my grandmother spotted - with a group of about 40 others - a German U-Boat off the coast close enough that a co-worker at the navy yard threw a rock and hit the hull of the ship. Her sisters worked on a farm in rural Maine where the Army brough by German POWs to pick potatoes during the growing season. A farm town with no farm boys isn't much of a town, you know.
My great uncle Joe fought and died in Italy just after Operation Husky, while invading Sicily. Before his death he fought the dreaded Afrika Corps headed by Rommel, and was nearly killed in the first battle of El Almein. He participated in Operation Torch, where he won a Silver Star.
My father grew up a few hundred yards from where a German spy/Nazi party offical landed on the coast with plans to infiltrate the country and court subversive elements inside the country. He lived through the Cuban Missle crisis, huddled in the basement of the newley constructed church which was amoung the first in the nation to have a fallout shelter built in. He volunteered for both Kennedy campaigns (Jack and Bobby). He was outside the draft age when Vietnam heated up, but most of his cousins and nephews ended up going over, and some, not coming back.
My oldest brother was alive when the iron curtain looked to be an indomitable force in the world, and when Reagan was shot, and when the Holy Father was shot.
I was alive and looking skeptically on as my friends and family poured blood money into stocks that they didnt know from scrap paper during the booms times of the 1990's. I was painfully aware to see the fallout - minimal retirement accounts and hard times, joblessness and addiction - that followed throughout the late 90's and early 00's.
What's the point? The point is that if you look retrospectively at history you'll see lots of good memories, and good feelings, and smiling faces. The roaring twenties, the national unity of World War II, the golden age of the post-WWII US economic powerhouse, the space race of the 60's and the promise of better living through technology. The fall of communism and the rise of the investor class throughout the last decades. Prosperity, and economic growth raising all boats. The restoration of American innovation and economic might.
But through all the good the fear was always there. The fear of the Germans, the fear of the Japs, the fear of the Chineese, the communists, the fear of nuclear annihilation, the fear of a silent spring - it was always there. The air-raid drills, the personal crisis, it's always been there.
We look back with the freshness of a new generation, and zero-in on the greatness of our ancestors. We look past their distasteful characteristics, their incredulity on certain matters, and recognize them for the purity of their ideals and the pristine dreams they laid out for their children and grandchildren.
Well, I can say this: I have my dreams. Dreams for economic and personal security for my wife, my unborn daughter, and myself. I have dreams of being part of a great nation, who shares its bounty with those who share our liberal values. I have dreams for a system and nation dedi
Not to complain about my own posts being modded up, but INFORMATIVE?!
...here http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq .audit/
Fantasy and superstition should be used for entertainment purposes only.
I do or have paid taxes. I support the funding of NASA. Bush made a big press conference about going to Mars and all of a sudden he is cutting NASA's budget. Private citizens shouldn't have to pay a separate fee to keep things the government shouldn't be cutting.
Euphemism, what is that a euphemism for something.
Private companies aren't expected to serve the public interest. The government is.
Of course, it often fails in that role, but that's not a reason to abandon public works entirely.
If I wanted to get modded up quickly, I wouldn't have said "theo-fascist corporatist". It makes me sound like I'm foaming at the mouth. But if I hadn't said it, it wouldn't have been as honest. And sometimes I am foaming at the mouth.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
hurray, more money for bullets! Bush has his heart in the right place, more guns, more bullets. stuff science, bugger the poor, there is no need to educate, and why spend money on sick people, when you can buy more bullets.
US Military Investment, keeping the US strong!
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Canceling this project means saving almost nothing compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars spent so far.
:)
So? Priorities have to be established, and by whatever criteria were used, this was a low one. It happens all the time.
I bet this thread was submitted by one of those sci-fi fans
The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton