Slashdot Mirror
Work Samples and the Non-Disclosure Agreement?
ahowl asks: "At my previous employer, I signed a traditional NDA, and when I was laid off, I signed another agreement stating I wasn't taking anything with me that belonged to the company. This included all the scripts, stored procedures, and anything else that I had created while employed. However, most of the subsequent jobs that I was looking at wanted work samples. If this continues I could have a ton of work I've done that I can't show anyone, so what can I do?"
Do some work on the side and use that as work samples.
When I want your opinion I will beat it out of you.
Show it to them and then kill them.
Is there no computer related work you do as a hobby? For example work on open source projects etc... If there is then you could use this as evidence. Perhaps whilst job hunting you could work on a small project just to show your capabilities. Also, surely a company would understand this situation and be sympathetic? Especially if they have a similar N.D.A? Another point to consider, surely just detailing the projects you've worked on, what you did and how you did it could be enough evidence of your capabilities without actually showing them the code you made. Plus I'm sure you can display qualities to them such as your ability to work in a team etc... which are just as if not more important than the code you create, so if you appear strong in these areas and explain why you can't show past work then you could still be in the running for the job. Just my tuppence, Regards, Grant
Isee Stars Astro Image Hosting.
Start an open source project! Help yourself as well as help the community.
Sig
I have never been asked for "work samples." I seriously doubt they are even asking for examples of work done at previous companies. That would be insane (releasing another companies IP?!).
Usually they go by the interview and stuff like that.
They probably are asking for code samples that you have written outside of work. If you haven't written any... well, write some! Especially if you're not working anyway, you have plenty of time available, no? Consider it part of the job searching process.
Still seems a little bizarre to even be asked for code sample in the first place though. I have to think that this only happened at one specific company and now you think all companies are like that.
Speak nicely to your old boss and ask permission to show samples to your new prospective employer. Let old employer and new employer work out the legal details between them (and in the mean time they might both learn a thing or two about the ludicrous nature of "intellectual property" laws). The fact that you've shown the initiative might count for something, and also might demonstrate that your inablity to produce said evidence is not due to its non-existence, but rather beurocracy not of your making.
Stick Men
Plan A:
Assuming you still have the work you did saved somewhere acaccessible.
Put together some work samples that you believe present no possible harm to your previous employee, Do whatever you have to to make them safe (perhaps print them out, draw permanent marker over sensitive parts and scan them back in!)
Email/mail the samples to your previous supervisor, and write the same message you wrote to slashdot here, but more emotional. Say you want to run your work samples by her to make sure they're ok. (emphasize how careful you'll be not to let anyone keep them or make copies)
If he is reasonable then he'll ok, at least parts of your work samples.
If not go to plan B:
Plan B:
Write some new samples! Spend up to a week writing a quick application that highlights your skills. It's time well spent and shows an employer that you program on your own time, and that you're self-motivated.
Keep up all updated, we're all wishing you the best of luck!
when I was laid off, I signed another agreement stating I wasn't taking anything with me that belonged to the company.
You are in a difficult position, my sympathies.
Why did you sign? Did they offer a greater severance if you signed? You have no reason to sign or agree to anything new when you're being terminated unless there is a benefit to you. You've already lost your job...
But even if you didn't sign, that wouldn't help much, since you're still covered by the orignal NDA.
You might show a copy of the old NDA to the new company and explain that's why you can't show them examples. Or ask the old company to allow you to show the new company a few things.
C'mon, people, just because you signed an NDA
doesn't mean you can't get a variation agree-
ment for a small, useful bit of code that you
are proud of...
I'd make it a habit of getting such an agree-
ment (ie, variation) as early as possible, eg
even during the signing of the NDA itself.
Why not try adding a write-in clause (do it a
bit professionally, eg, by sticking-on a pre-
printed label, maybe) that says something like:
"... small work sample(s) may be shown,
but not left in the possession of other
organisation(s), exclusively when inter-
viewing for other positions.
Such samples will not include 's
trade secrets, etc."
You lawyer should be able to help you with
the details...
I've gotten several employees to use _my_ code, while making sure beforehand to establish that while they can do what they want with it, so can I. Kind of a simplified version of the LGPL, under which I license the code.
Of course, I haven't worked for jerks, at least in this regard, that there was never a problem over it. The license is clearly stated and the code (or at least a really old version... gotta update that) is available on Sourceforge.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Show them work you did at your former job, NDA be damned.
NDAs are there so companies feel comfy and secure - don't let it impede your quest for a better job. Your company doesn't want to sue you, and they have nothing to gain by doing it, even if they know you're doing this. Now if you're giving up company secrets, that might be something else, but a straightforward work example isn't going to hurt them and isn't going to be worth their time to care about.
...I would request that they give you a programming challenge. Maybe some application that could be written in a day or two. Even if this company decides not to hire you, you'll have some sample code for the next company you apply at.
Or you could ask them if they have some code laying around that you could work with, you could then spend a little time improving or adding to a project that they are working on, there's nothing like actually demonstrating your usefulness.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
The guy I use charges $150/hour. Reviewing a standard NDA takes about ... 1 hour. As a result, I've avoided signing things that would make a paper smeared with pig feces more attractive.
Before you sign anything consult a lawyer
Think about how much money you could potentially lose because you can't show your potential future employer any samples. Is that work 150 bones?
So.
Before you sign anything consult a lawyer
Yeah, right.
So they laid you off, and asked you to sign another agreement, and you agreed?
WTF?! You allowed them to damage your resume and job search for no reason. Too many people are allowing corporations to control them by contracts. If you are out of school, dont sign your future away, they will let you go when times get tough, look after yourself first.
Sheesh, maybe after everyone realizes that 100 hour weeks, no vacation, and NDA's are not worth after you are laid off and alone.
I, too, have been wrestling with this situation. I am being paid by my current employer to write complex software, but should I wish to leave, I want to be able to showcase the work I do to others.
Enter Open Source (Select "Redundent" now...)!
I started about a year back by just subscribing to the devel lists of about 15-20 different open-source apps that I used regularly (and a few that I didn't... but that interested me).
My initial motivation was "Lets get my name somewhere on the 'credits' list and then I can add that to my resume", but that wore off quickly. I discovered that there was an incredible number of people who were far more capable at writing code than I was. So I took the opportunity to learn from them.
Books, college classes, on-the-job learning and experience are all thrown away...if you find a good complicated project dealing in programming languages you don't understand and concepts you haven't explored, you'll eat it right up and it will have a ripple effect throughout your entire skillset (no matter how unrelated the project may be to your current work).
So my advice (and point): Find some projects that are appealing to you, subscribe and read the devel mailing lists: you'll benefit. Even if you don't get the opportunity to "showcase your work", you'll become far better at your trade... and that might be obvious enough to an interviewer to make providing examples of your work irrelevant.
"God is dead!" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead!" - God
And you'll QA that bandit easter egg how exactly? ;)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
They probably tied the severance package into it somehow.