Slashdot Mirror
Commercial Exoskeletons
FalconZero writes "For those of you with superhuman aspirations, your dream may be a step closer; New Scientist (recently) and the Japan Times (last year) covered Yoshiyuki Sankai's work at
the University of Tsukuba in Japan developing powered exoskeletons
with commercial versions expected soon costing between $14,000 and $19,000
(£7,500-£10,000). Other work with exoskeletons previously covered
here(1),
here(2) and
here(3)."
Berkeley has some videos of their BLEEX (Berkeley Lower Extremity Exoskeleton) Project on their web page.
Video
I swear that guy in the video is the Star Wars kid, if was making robot noises with his mouth he would have me convinced.
The first step to real life Halo
Welcome our new "bio-cybernic" overlords.
So when do we get mounted guns?
So I was trying to find one *good* Exoman site, and I couldn't find any. (It was a short-lived 1977 TV series about a paralyzed scientist who created his own exo-suit in which he would fight crime yada yada yada).
God, exoskeletons have been done to death -- see one giant bipedal forklift, you've seen them all.
Get back to me when we have commercial powered endoskeletons. Preferably with the razor-like claw add-on.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
With one of these and a perl script, I don't even have to work at masturbation.
If I can only incorporate that roomba into this...
Never play chicken with a passive aggressive.
I'm pretty sure that only reason why they're even devising these things is because of Japan's robot anime. You know, some guy jumps into a huge robot and control it through sensors all over his body.
There is some guy here in Japan who is that crazy about the anime that developed his own exo-skeleton to move his toy Mazinga robot around. They had him on TV wearing his Mazinga get up and fighting other geek's toy robots on one of the TV shows here. Apparently there are a lot of these robot hobbyists as well as uni students building these things.
Mazinga, BTW, is a really old anime, but not far removed from the likes of say Gundam, Voltron and a billion and one other ripoffs.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Alas, for Robert A. Heinlein's vision of Powersuits in Starship Troopers, exoskeletons, like those giant Japanese Mechs, are very cool in fiction, but probably not terribly useful in reality compared to more mundane alternatives.
Lawrence Person, Science Fiction Writer
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
I mean really, of all people...the Japanese coming up with something like this? No way.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
As noted in another thread:
Neogentronyx is currently in the process of constructing a Bipedal Exo-Skeletal Robotic Vehicle [neogentronyx.com], known as a Mech and designated NMX04-1A. The purpose of the NMX04-1A is proof of concept and to make the first bold step towards full production of Mecha vehicles, affordable to civilians and not just commercial entities. There are plenty of pretty pictures and info here [neogentronyx.com]. See also these larger more recent pics [coasttocoastam.com]
Another fine product of Alaska, approximately 18 ft tall (7 meters)
As someone noted:
Bring a few cans of WD-40. Looks like they are assembling this thing out in the open! No building to put it in!
Do you think that he's any competition?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Anything that is bi-pedal is not eneregy efficient. It is more difficult to conserve momentum with it. Without incredible specialization it would also be extremely difficult to obtain any sort of precision of movement or manipulation. Perhaps the biggest problem: balance. The more control given to the "pilot" the less they could regulate balance and weight transfer in the machine. These things, I am sure work well for the disabled and old people, but they aren't going to be used by technological super heroes or anything like that anytime soon.
Create an event which is half Battle Bots and half Ultimate Fighting Championship!
Now the fall of Oscorp is just one successful test away!
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
"Get away from her, you BITCH!"
A lot of wear an tear is from load bearing, and perhaps these powered suite address this to a degree, but I suspect in many cases they would exacerbate the problem for arthritis sufferers by adding to the weight load on joints, even while enabling superhuman lifting capabilities.
Even if they address the load issue on joints, it is overkill from what is really needed by tens of millions. I have not seen such a thing, but does anyone know of some kind of lightweight synchronized brace system? Something that would distribute the body's load to the hips directly and lock when the joints aren't moving? I have seen leg braces before, but not articulated ones that auto-lock. One thing that my father believed contributed to the breakdown of his joints were the long periods he spent standing doing his job as a chef. Again, a locking brace system would seem the answer for people that need to be on their feet long periods, but may have the beginnings of joint break down.
Letter To Iran
I called my politician and asked that he demand that the name "HAL" be banned. He said that he was sorry, but he was afraid he can't do that.
This seems a lot more appropriate for applications in construction than in the military or in medicine.
Digging/moving/lifting/mixing/carrying machines are generally designed to do jobs that humans can do, but on a larger scale and with more power. It seems to me that a person in a powered exoskeleton could perform such tasks pretty well, given the right tools or attachments.
"It's the wrong trousers, Gromit, and they've gone wrong!" ~ Wallace
Roboshark vs. Land Walker vs. Exoskeleton
Who wins? My vote is on the Exoskeleton. But the Roboshark equiped with laser eyes might pose a challenge.
Did anyone else notice that his "venture firm" is called cyberdyne??? How was this not harped on at length? Are we actually tired of allusions to skynet's infamous creator?
Your name is Dave, isn't it.
These would be better suited for the classic "gate guard" with 100-200lb payload you could put quit a bit of armor on that guy. That and a 30-50lb weapon. The intimidation factor would be very high.
i think the military application for exoskeletons is to help soldiers carry more supplies while marching extended distances. not fighting. marching. and i'm pretty sure we didn't have the tech for load-bearing exoskeletons back in WWII...
if i'm not immortal, what's the point of living?
...te?
It used to be that instability in aircraft was bad. Now unstable fly-by-wire fighters are very manouverable. Unstable is great if you can deal with it.
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
Its all a tradeoff. Lose efficiency for increased flexibility.
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
The most obvious weapon I can think of would be a .50 caliber heavy machine gun. Currently it takes several men to carry one(or else a vehicle like a Humvee), a suit might allow one man to carry and use a weapon capable of taking out light armored vehicles. You could also add some heavy body armor- in short, create a mobile machine gun nest.
It's going to have its limitations, but any technology- aircraft, trucks, tanks, ships, foot soldiers- have their limitations, the trick is recognizing the limitations and advantages of each and using them accordingly. I suspect we will see something along these lines eventually. If it can help us kill people more effectively, you can be sure the Pentagon will employ it.
Then there's the logistics end of things, where it might play an even larger role- loading bombs onto aircraft, loading munitions and supplies onto supply trucks and aircraft, that kind of thing. If you could use this kind of technology to make your supply train smaller, faster, and more flexible that might have a much bigger impact on warfare than allowing a guy to carry a bigger gun.
We had the technology to build them back then??? Wow, that's news to me. The Japanese must seriously be SO behind in terms of technology that they are still building things from the 1950s.
On another note, I'm beginning to fear the impending rise of Japan's technological skills. With their recent attempt to amend their constitution to allow for a standing army along with their recent changes to their textbooks that make their actions during WW2 seem honorable instead of atrocious. I mean, sure there are some good uses for the new exoskeleton technology. But wouldn't the BEST way to help disabled people would be to research stem cells and how to regenerate nerves and muscles??? This exoskeleton that makes you twice as strong and straped to a computer which allows wireless hook up sure does make me think more of war than it does of helping old ladies. But hey, that's just me, I'm paranoid.
I think balance is starting become a solved problem. Look at the Segway for starters... plus previous Slashdot articles have linked to some very impressive videos of (small) robots doing handstands, ballet, etc. So it appears that balance is just a matter of having a fast enough computer running a clever enough feedback algorithm.
I think a more difficult problem will be energy: how does your exoskeleton carry enough fuel/energy to be useful without adding too much weight or compromising the user's safety?
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
I can honestly say to someone: "Kiss my shiny metal ass!"
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
But you know they're going to regulate it to death with things like requiring a license, etc. I'm fine with that, but I really do hope they let this be as commercial as other modes of transportation and disability assistance.
I can't wait for the import tuners to get their hands on this and make it look GOOD. Although it would probably have 5 tv screens, 900W stereo, and neon lighting all over...
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
An exoskeleton would be potentially useful for urban combat (punching through doors, knowck down walls, etc.)
Man, I'm just waiting for the exoskeletons with the built-in spellchecker and "Typing Assist" feature.
SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
Interesting thoughts, but a highly mobile one-man machinegun nest.
:)
If theres three things I learned playing various mechwarrior games, its that vs ground opponents a mechs strength is mobility.
I also played apache longbow sims and learned that the mech is not just a 'hog' on legs; its an infantryman with a punch. A mech can loiter to set up an ambush or to defend an area.
In the games they were severely limited by munitions; the missiles were appaling. I always wanted to try a loadout of winchester hellfires and sidewinders
In the real world, mobility isn't just about being able to clamber over obstacles or duck down shuffle along and pop up. Its also about endurance.
Those overgrown SUVs the yanks call 'High Mobility Vehicles' have very short range. Their mobility is limited by the mobility of their supply train.
The civilian ones get 10 miles per gallon on sealed roads. Offroad? 5 mpg?
One must ask the Battle Mech sales guy "Does your mech need a fuel truck following it around?"
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
I disagree.
Take a squad of 25 men, and put them in suits (albiet suits somewhat more advanced than these). Like Heinlein's, to a large degree. Making them nuclear powered might be practical, to some degree, if they were to give a significant edge in battle.
If the suits were 8' fall or so and had thick (ie, tank-level reactive) body armor, the squad of 25 could very likely out-maneuver most tank/armor batallions of the world, and most certainly out-gun all but the most intense infantry. They'd be able to withstand multiple RPG-type hits (possibly, provided the soldier isn't injured due to percussion), and would be harder to hit than a vehicle by far. With the assistance of advanced machinery and electronics, they'd likely be able to do a better, faster job sniping than most snipers, and be able to carry much larger guns than an unarmored soldier - though probably not quite as big as a vehicle-mounted weapon.
Think of them as something between a soldier on foot with a troop rifle (M16 or BAR) and a HV with a 100mm cannon. Maybe they'd carry a 30mm cannon with a couple thousand rounds, a decent sniper rifle, and a 20mm grenade launcher with plenty of ammo for it - significantly more power than even a squad could dish out, but not as much as an armored vehicle.
I don't imagine such suits being used to replace, say, foot infantry or even advanced groups like 1st Recon USMC or Navy SEAL. I think they'd largely be used in support capacity for those squads, or for the troops with less prowess. They'd likely get carted around on a transport truck, just like any other piece of specialized machinery - only deployed when needed (such as, say, for guard duty).
I obviously don't think such things are near to implimentation or deployment, but provided things don't tank in the near future, I suspect something similar - or at least a step in that direction - will be coming to the US Armed Forces within a while.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
An exoskeleton isn't a mecha, and doesn't have to be nearly that big. From a military point of view everything has limitations. Tanks are great in open country, but not so good in built up areas. If exoskeletons have a militray application it would more likely be urban areas and rough terrain where their greater mobility would be an asset.
Funny that we barely have the technology to build them now but could build them in WWII.
i just LOVE the fact that you are all sweaty for enormous battle robots, leaving a trail of death and destruction in their wake, but you are frightened of RFID.
I'm beginning to fear the impending rise of Japan's technological skills.
The impending rise? Where have you been for the last few decades? As a country their technological skills and drive have been cutting edge for a long time now.
With their recent attempt to amend their constitution to allow for a standing army
If my country was that close the North Korea and China I'd really want it to have a standing army too. I guess they could rely on the Americans for ever, but they have a lot of other commitments and what if you don't always agree with them?
changes to their textbooks that make their actions during WW2 seem honorable instead of atrocious
Now that's a massive generalisation, assuming you are talking about the same thing as the Chinese have been protesting about. A textbook, not all, done by a company not the government referred to the rape of Nanking as an "incident". Now that isn't good, it was a massacre and a war crime, but you may be generalising just a bit from it.
But wouldn't the BEST way to help disabled people would be to research stem cells and how to regenerate nerves and muscles
It would be another way. We don't know it would be the best way until we tried both. Even then, best how? Cost? How quickly it is available? Quality of life for sufferers? Percentage of sufferers it works for?
It's pretty rare with medical conditions that one treatment works for everyone. Researching multiple ways to deal with it is generally a good thing, that saying about all you eggs in one basket.
Yes, exos could have military applications, (a lot of tech can, if it can it usually gets used) the US army has already said it is interested, and researching. Given their military budget they would almost certainly be the first to use such technology if it becomes practical.
Why isn't every Marine in Iraq, etc not wrapped in 6 inches of Kevlar from head to toe? Because Kevlar is HEAVY. The real advantage of a Mech type suit is that you can make the average Soldier harder to kill. You don't need to make it superhuman strong, and able to punch through walls, just make it able to handle a normal range of motion / speed, and then wrap enough Kevlar on it to make a person immune to small arms fire.
They said in the article that the HAL 5 would be smaller (about 11lbs lighter, bringing it to about 37 lbs) and that it could be used to pick up nearly 90 extra lbs. That's pretty decent, that shouldn't have too much bulk to it. The problem now isn't hardware (though power will be an issue...) its going to be programming it to be able to move around like a normal person (right now it only stands, walks, and does stairs.)
This is very doable, and certainly in the near future (Marines are already working on a set of legs to help them carry more, further.) but it won't be like the anime you're used to, and it won't be replacing tanks any time soon. What it will do, is make the life of the average Army grunt a lot better. The USA is way ahead in terms of Air Force and Navy tech, (think aircraft carriers... No one else has even close to 12 fully functional aircraft carriers.) But on the infantry side, we don't have nearly the same kind of lead. With all the tech money out there, some of it should go to the "grunts".
when the machines start drilling down to Zion.
Until then, I'll wait till they work out the bugs and add the guns.
GET FREE APPLE STUFF!