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Dell Still Intel Only
wyckedone writes "Dell Computers has no plans to offer the new dual-core AMD Opteron even though it has been proven that "Opteron's integrated memory controller and multiple Hypertransport interconnects help it outperform Intel's Xeon processor on many benchmarks, especially those that measure the performance of memory-intensive applications.". HP, IBM and Sun Microsystems have all announced that they are going to release servers based on the new AMD chip. Why not offer customers an alternative that has better performance instead of risking the lose of those customers to another vendor that does? Intel has no plans to release a dual-core Xeon until 2006."
If Dell had a monopoly on PC manufacture, this would surely be big news. As it is, they're a company who've weighed both sides of an idea, and made a business.
Remind me why I should care?
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Dude! Youre not getting a dualcore!
FP
[sig]you really dont want the answers, trust me[/sig]
It's Dell. They use these rumors to get a better deal from Intel.
Or so I've heard.
Why not offer customers an alternative that has better performance instead of risking the lose of those customers to another vendor that does?
1. AMD can't produce enough chips to satisfy Dell's demands
2. Intel has proven a reliable platform for Dell
3. Most end user's don't care
Why not offer customers an alternative that has better performance instead of risking the lose of those customers to another vendor that does?
Because Dell looked at the numbers and determined that the exclusively-Intel price discount that Dell gets is more valuable than the potential revenue they'd get by offering AMD.
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Intel is paper-launching it's "desktop" Dual Core CPUs today ($1000+ desktop CPUs... Mmmm..) Meanwhile, AMD has supplied IBM, HP, etc with Dual Core CPUs for their server lines, which you can order today and receive within a few weeks.
This generation goes to AMD, pure and simple. The Opterons are going to swallow the Intel systems in performance whole. Maybe even price in some configurations.
If Dell used AMD , they probably could offer sub-200 computers because of their purchase power.
No matter where you go , there you are.
This means more business for HP, IBM and Sun Microsystems (if of course Businesses in the market for servers choose AMD).
Dell has chosen to stick with Intel which isn't the worse choice. It means lost profits but it also means less support for two distinct chips.
It is up to the above three companies to prove to Dell (and Intel) that AMD is a viable alternative by speaking with their dollars and buying Opteron servers
-Teiresias
If Dell decided to use Intel and AMD processors, they would have to dedicate resources to another product line. It's likely that for all their different models, Dell has a very limited number of motherboards and other such pieces of hardware. If they were to adopt AMD, they would have to dedicate development and support resources to a whole other set of product lines. It's just not worth it. They have their designs that work, they have their production lines in place, and they have their customer service set up. Adding AMD just makes things doubly complicated and eats into their profit margins. There is a huge barrier to adoption that they are just not going to be able to justify, no matter what the "demand" seems to be. People think AMD boxes would be cheaper, but for Dell to support them, they would not be.
Didn't something like this happen with IBM?
The i386 chip came out, it was faster, but IBM decided not to move right away - after all, who needed all of that extra speed? The i286 was fine!
If memory serves me right, I believe that Compaq came out within seconds telling anyone who would listen that they had i386 processors now - and made it their policy to always support the latest and fastest chips.
I wonder if this will hurt Dell at all. Odds are, with the enterprise vendors, not too much - but all it takes is a little mistake to give your competitors a chance to catch up. And as slim as margins on PCs are, I'm not Dell can afford to slip up in a situation like this.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
But if you are buying a Dell PC then you probably do not care to horribly much about the microseconds that AMD can buy in you in comparison to the Intel chip.
Which isn't to say your 12 year old doesn't, but that is besides the point.
This is another way of starting a sig with this and ending it with that.
Could it be that Dell's customers are not asking for AMD? Maybe performance isn't a big issue for checking your email and typing out that King Lear essay?
I think the disadvantage here is that Dell sometimes supplies companies with computers and they're the ones without a big choice. Home users tend to pick dell because it's the easy thing to do.
Dell has never offered AMD. Yet they have grown to be the largest PC company in the world. HP and Compaq can combine and Dell still outperforms them. IBM decides to sell off their PC division. Sun is fighting for its life.
I'm a big fan of AMD, but the "everybody else is doing it" argument has always been a stupid one. It is more stupid when "everybody else", even combined, have withered against the "not everybody else" competition.
Verily, I hear the propaganda spewing from the mouths of the less computer savvy: Somehow they've been brainwashed through the years, I assume by Intel's Blue Men.
"B-b-but, it's Pentium 4 EXTREME Edition with HT Technology!!1one"
"B-b-but, Intel's better for gaming!"
"B-b-but, If it's not Intel Inside(tm), then it's not worth a damn!"
"B-b-but, Is Windows XP even compatible with AMD?"
Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. -- Larry Wall
Why is this news? Dell using AMD is just as possible as MS embracing Open Source methodologies and freely giving away all of their sourcecode.
Both are a possibility, but until either company is losing significant marketshare by staying the course they have traveled for so long... It won't happen.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
We used dell hardware (windows enviornment) for 2 years, and switched right back to HP.
The hard drives constantly crashed, raid never worked, and restoring from tape during production time was constant. Parts were never available, and the constant response from their help desk was "flash the bios" or "flash the firmware" when it pertained to nothing that was going on.
At one point they were just sending us new servers for free to fix the broken ones. Note: Those new ones then broke constantly as well.
I think there are plenty of other reasons to switch from dell than a lack of an AMD chip in a server.
(note: I do like dell workstations and home PCs and laptops... just not their servers)
Victory is gained, not in knowing your opponents next move, but in preempting them.
One thing you can all bet on. Dell does its numbers. If it didn't, it wouldn't be where it is now.
:)
:)
In the end it ALWAYS comes down to numbers. Intel probably gives Dell quite a discount for having Dell's exclusivety. Most corporate customers don't mind the performance difference, since they will never get fired for buying Intel... on the contrary, in the corporate / server world, Intel has a great reputation.
The press fanfare generated by such announcements probably is beneficial to Dell. Remember, (almost) any publicity is good publicity. Everyone that read this thread now remembered Dell exists
Don't worry, one day they probably will conclude its more profitable to also sell AMD - probably when AMD manages to give them a nice discount too
Dell Computers has no plans to offer the new dual-core AMD Opteron
Also in the news:
- Ford has no plans to offer the new Honda engine.
- Suse has no plans to offer the new SP2 patch.
- Cadbury's Roses has no plans to offer the new Quality Street fillings.
Unfortunately, I am not Wil Wheaton
Any number of reasons come to mind, all pulled from my posterier based on what little I know about Dell's business model and relationship with Intel, but try any of these on:
It could be any combination of the above or something else entirely. Maybe Dell is just making a horrible business decision, but I'm guessing that they've run the numbers and decided that its in their best interests to stay the course. Decisions that seem to be perplexing to us almost boil down to money. Their financial analysts have convinced management that the company is best served this way.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
Why not offer customers an alternative that has better performance instead of risking the lose of those customers to another vendor that does?
Why not allow a hugely successful company figure out what's best for it's customers rather than assuming that they would want to please an AMD fanboy.
It's a bit trollish, I know, but Dell isn't hurting. They're doing a great job, even without using AMD. Perhaps doubling the number of configurations would increase their stock on hand, and that would cost more money and cut down on profits. Perhaps it would add complexity to the orders, which might result in poorer customer service. Perhaps the number of customers on a given hardware platform would change, decreasing the amount of testing and QA they could perform per platform, resulting in a loss for customers and vendor alike.
Why not accept the fact that there is more than just a one line blurb, and that maybe Dell actually knows what they're doing...
...is still Indian only.
Not to be a pessimist, but I've dealt with Dell Tech Support 23 times this past year, every time with India, and I had only 2 positive experiences.
The company I work for has a lot of sales folks, who like to break laptops and all. So, I usually end up calling Dell for replacements (fulfill warranties and such) and guess what, I ALWAYS have to talk to Tech Support first. Every single time it's "reboot the machine". Come on! And good luck trying to let them know all you need is a replacement part, they just ask you a bevy of questions first and THEN transfer you when they can't understand you anymore.
They should just automate the damn tech support, it's pretty much the same effect. Those folks cannot understand you, and you end up either with a dropped line or worse, a transfer to another tech support person. BAH!
IGB: More fun than eating oatmeal!
These announcements have shocked the geek community so bad that highly intelligent virgins all over the world are committing suicide.
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I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
AMDs consume less power, and run much cooler.
I don't know how many people are thinking about the cost of infrastructure to host servers, but that is another reason to use AMD based systems.
v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
At a conference, Michael Dell spoke about this issue, indirectly. He argued that if Dell can satisfy most of the demand with a smaller number of parts, it will do that. I've heard other Dell managers speak and the magic number is usually 3 -- 3 graphics cards, 3 HD sizes, 3 speed levels, etc. Although Dell's factories are amazing in their ability to pump out customized PCs, each added part variant adds costs to the entire system.
Dell would rather lose a few percent of sales that drive the costs of the entire factory higher.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Well when you have a company that ships its own lame MP3 player instead of one people might actually want to buy (and I'm not even saying that would have to be an iPod!), then you realize that not all choices they make are really in thier long-term best interests - though Dell thinks they are I'm sure.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I know that Intel will subsidize your advertising budget if you go all-Intel. I wonder how much of it is a matter of mindshare through advertising... get Intel to pay more of your marketing costs, you can cut margins on your servers.
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The odds of them not offering AMD chips hurting their business might as well not exist. The fact is Dell and Intel spend more on Advertising then most the other manufacturers combined. How many of you have seen AMD commercials? This is why AMD is SO much cheaper. They lack the marketing cost that Intel does. I doubt the Blue Man Group comes cheap.
As for Dell they have always thrown tons of money at Advertising and I would dare say more than most other PC manufacturers with maybe the exception of IBM, though they typically target more business users in the ads it seems. In the end stupid commercial get stupid people to buy stupid things. The smart ones know what they are doing and will buy the best performance for the price.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
Its definately true that Dell gets cpus from Intel for cheap. Really cheap. Some of the systems listed on Dells page you look at and think "I couldn't build a system for this price myself". They just have a major discount. They also tend to get certain products first, and have them guaranteed.
This is also coupled with the fact that AMD doesn't have the customer recognition that Intel does. Dude I'm getting a Dell is followed by a man in a bunny suit. thats the way things are. On top of it one of AMDs strengths is the enthusiast market (which much of slashdot is). This market runs counter to dells market.
However where this decision doesn't make sense is in their server line. I doubt Intel gives dell a massive price break on Xeon chips (like they tend to with p4's), and I doubt Dell having Opteron chips would lose dell too much of the costs dealing with Intel, but I could be wrong. Basically with the performance of the Xeon relative to the opteron for servers the Opteron looks highly attrractive. From speed, memory performance, heat, and price standpoints. Not selling those chips seems crazy, but who knows. Maybe dell has something up their sleeves.
Phil
We have been using Dell for the last 8 years and my experience has been just to opposite. I have had a Dell field service tech fly in at midnight with parts in hand to help fix a bad Array Enclosure. I have also had their tech support guys stay on the phone and help rebuild a Domain controller when a drive went bad. On the HP / Compaq side if the house (about 50/50 these days) I have had more problems with bad drives, power supplies, etc. Their support is OK but I have to call them more often. This is in a server room with about 75 servers. We use their Dell) Desktops as well and almost never have hardware issues. Ian
I'd buy HP's ProLiant line, but not their PCs.
Dell is all about low margin *parts assembly*. Works fine for destops.
When we had a drive fail in a PowerVault 220S, Dell sent out a tech to replace the drive, and the entire RAID-5 volume got hosed. That's just simply not supposed to happen. Doesn't happen with the Sun boxes we have here, nor the CPQ/HP ProLiants. The Sun and HP boxes are engineered as systems. The Dell relied on a rebadged Adaptec card, a rebadged copy of Volume Manager, and tech support who don't know anything about how the parts work together.
If your IT stuff is done right, desktops are essentially disposable. Servers, not so much. Restoring a terabyte from tape is still a slow proposition, especially with network-based backup.
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If you work at a place like that, it's a tough sell (if not a bureaucratic nightmare) to get hardware from a "non-preferred" vendor.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
I was agreeing with you until I saw I do like dell workstations and home PCs and laptops
Dell laptops are the worst brand of laptops you can buy. They break constantly. I go to school with 200 people who own a Dell laptop. Without fail, everyone I know with a Dell laptop has had very big problems.
If you're not buying a Mac, you're much better off with an IBM or Panasonic or a lesser-known brand
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
Becasue consumers do not care about this technical pissing contest that is going on in the industry. They don't care, because they don't have to. The performence difference is squat in the real world.
Keeping that in consideration, why spend the extra dollrs supporting another chip that doesn't have brand awareness amoung Dell's customers?
People don't want faster computers anynmore, they want computers that work and that they don't have to worry about. The want their computers to be the next generation TV. Some may scoff, but the technical challenge of making a computer that worry free is far more challenging then another 10% speed increase that can only be measured running certian programs in lab like conditions.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
by adding AMD systems across the board, Dell would double overnight the number of motherboards that they have to support and troubleshoot. Even if AMD sales were only a small part of their overall revenue.
Would there be enough new revenue from selling AMD systems to justify that? It has to be NEW revenue, because if it's just replacing one revenue stream with another at a greater cost, why would you bother?
Dell probably does not see enough additional revenue from AMD sales to justify the increased support costs.
Unfortunately not. Ramping up CPU production takes a very long time, because you have to build big, complex, factories. Ramping up demand can happen extremely quickly, because it just requires someone selecting the 'amd' dropdown rather than the 'intel' one on the Dell site.
That is (one reason why) Dell isn't going AMD.
For those who hadn't noticed (all geeks, apparently) Dell is not a computer company. It is a manufacturing company. It has made great, innovative strides in extremely efficient manufacturing. They just happen to be doing it with computers. The choice of CPU in the box means as much to Dell as the choice of compressor in a Siemens fridge means to Siemens. And the CPU means as much to most consumers as the compressor in their fridge.
Sure, some compressors are probably more efficient, reliable, quiet, whatever. But if you have n million invested in robots that can install one brand of compressor and not another, are you going to switch? What if you have a huge set of automated hardware tests all of them based on Intel motherboards - are you going to switch? What if you have hundreds of call center scripts based around diagnosing known Intel related problems?
The actual capability of the processor is NOT RELEVANT. Dell don't sell PCs because they make the best ones. They sell them because they make them very cheap, and can deliver huge orders on time, even when those orders are semi-custom. Dell does not achieve this impressive feat by switching components every time one of them becomes slightly better than another. If you want that kind of thing, there are many PC makers who will do it.
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Athlons are rock solid.
Opterons are rock solid.
Both are GREAT chips.
Via makes some GREAT motherboard chipsets.
Via makes some mediocre motherboard chipsets.
SiS makes some pretty good motherboard chipsets.
SiS makes some crap motherboard chipsets.
Not-well-known manufactures take some of the crappier parts, and put them on even crappier boards. Then you get instability.
With an Intel Chip, and an Intel Board, you know everything is going to work.
With an AMD Chip, you have to select a motherboard. You've got to do a little bit of research to make sure you aren't buying crap.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge AMD fan. I've got ~7 systems in my home, and several at work, and they are ALL AMD systems. But I've been burned in the past by poor quality motherboards, so I know that they do exist.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
...the fact that Slashdot has run about 30 "Dell might maybe possibly be thinking about considering using AMD processors" only to run a "Never mind Dell denies it" stories. How about holding off on running another pair of these stories until Dell officially confirms they're using AMD processors?