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Data Suggests Early Universe was Superfluid

Ted writes "Experiments at the worlds largest nuclear collider, RHIC, at Brookhaven National Laboratory reveal striking new features of the state of the early Universe. With RHICs enormous collision energy, the researchers can create matter that is composed of the fundamental building blocks of nature, quarks and gluons, in a state with temperatures of more than 1000 billion degrees. The Universe is believed to have been in this state in the first microsecond after the Big Bang. Later the quarks and gluons were trapped in the nuclear particles that the visible universe is composed of today. Until recently, researchers have thought that the quarks and gluons formed a gas. The latest results from RHIC, however, indicate that under the extreme conditions just around the phase transition from quarks and gluons to ordinary matter, the quarks and gluons behaved as a liquid - in fact an almost perfect liquid."

30 of 405 comments (clear)

  1. That's one interpretation by jd · · Score: 4, Informative
    The scientists themselves suggest that the liquid state is one of a number of states that quark/gluon soups can take, but that the early Universe was still most likely a gas.


    Of course, all their software is in CVS, so it shouldn't be too hard to check their calculations. :)

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:That's one interpretation by Raindance · · Score: 4, Informative

      Right. To clarify,

      Matter can be in a "superfluid" state when in solid, liquid, gas, and plasma form (this is a fairly new discovery).

      The term "superfluid" has more to do with whether various properties obtain than being an actual fluid.

    2. Re:That's one interpretation by jericho4.0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Superfluidity is the complete absence of viscosity, something kind of hard to visualize in a solid.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    3. Re:That's one interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yes, liquid helium becomes superfluid at sufficiently low temperatures.

    4. Re:That's one interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "If glass actually flowed at rates that were visually perceptible even after centuries, then optical telescopes that rely on massive lenses and mirrors to maintain accuracy to fractions of a second wouldn't last very long at all. This isn't the case."
      Exactly, because noone is so dumb as to use a non-crystalized form of silica in those lenses. The parent is completely correct. Please move along.

  2. Not much of a surprise by onyxruby · · Score: 2, Informative
    cosmic microwave background radiation pretty much dictated this three years ago. Rest of comment is a rip off an article I did for K5 a few years ago that dealt CMB.

    The big bang theory gained more credibility today with some news released by the National Science Foundation and collaborated by a United States team called Maxima with astronomers from the University of Minnesota and the University of California, Berkeley.

    The soundwaves that were found are an impression of quantum scale energy fluctuations carried to earth by cosmic microwave background radiation. Scientists were able to measure the waves by looking at cosmic microwave background (CMB). These early soundwaves are thought to have created super and giant clusters of galaxies with their travel. The soundwaves are actually contained in primordial plasma. They are effectively overtones or harmonics of the big bang explosion that is said to have created the universe.

    These soundwaves are important because they show two things that are important for understanding our universe in addition to solidifying the big bang AKA inflationary thoery.

    # First of note is that the study indicates that the universe is geometrically flat, not curved. # This study also gives credence to the thoery that most of the universe is composed of dark matter.

    The discoveries were made by microwave detectors in Antartica, using baloons. The study involved only about 3 percent of the sky, and looked at temperature fluctuations of only 100-millionths of a degree celcius in the CMB.

    1. Re:Not much of a surprise by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Informative
      You don't know what you're talking about. The material in your post was all known several years ago. The fact that nuclear matter at high temperatures can be a superfluid (not just a normal fluid) is entirely new and unsuspected, and has nothing to do with what you're talking about in your post.

      For anyone who wants to know something about this, from a source that actually knows something, you might want to start with the wikipedia article on the liquid drop model of the nucleus, and then this one on superfluids in ordinary matter (as opposed to nuclear matter). Nuclear matter in its normal cold state (as found in the nuclei in your body) is a fluid (known since ca. 1930), and is also a superfluid. The mechanism that causes superfluidity in the atomic nucleus is in some ways analogous to the mechanism that causes superfluidity in some types of ordinary (very cold) matter. It's also been known for a long time that if you heated nuclear matter up to high temperatures (on the order of MeV's per nucleon), the superfluidity would vanish. This is exactly analogous to what happens if you heat a superfluid like helium-3 beyond a certain point: it undergoes a phase transition and is no longer a superfluid.

      This new discovery is completely unexpected: if you heat nuclear matter even hotter (to on the order of GeV's per nucleon) it may somehow become a superfluid again (maybe depending on other variables, like pressure). This is the regime where everything is moving at relativistic speeds, and the quarks may actually be free to move around the whole fluid, rather than being bound in sets of three within individual nucleons.

  3. Re:I hate to sound like I'm trolling... by Harish+Rallapali · · Score: 2, Informative

    Obviously nobody profits from the fact that at one time, for a very brief period, the universe acted a little funny.

    However, this has important ramifications in terms of physics. We now know the "what" and "when" - now we need to learn the "why" and "how." Knowledge is never wasted. This may very well be the first baby-step towards warp drive and gravity guns :-)

  4. Re:Universe by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1, Informative

    Only if you stretch the definition of 'liquid' to the point where it loses any meaning at all. By the commonly accepted definition, no, the entire universe is NOT liquid.

    Liquid (defined by Education Outreach): One of the basic three phases of matter; characterized by free movement of the constituent molecules among themselves but without the tendency to separate.

    This definition precludes most of the real estate in the known Universe.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  5. Liquids and Gasses are Fluids by theblacksun · · Score: 4, Informative

    The term fluid applies to both states of matter. I'm thinking the proper term for the universe would be superliquid.

    --
    Ignorance kills, complacency kills, hatred kills, but usually not the ones guilty of them.
    1. Re:Liquids and Gasses are Fluids by RaffiRai · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed, the definition of fluid also includes Plasmas and some plastic solids.

      The simple high-school chemistry definition is matter with no definite shape.

      Wikipedia article here.

    2. Re:Liquids and Gasses are Fluids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      When in the article did it say that the Quarks acted as a liquid or were in the state of a liquid?

      The part where they say, "The truly stunning finding at RHIC that the new state of matter created in the collisions of gold ions is more like a liquid than a gas gives us a profound insight into the earliest moments of the universe", for instance.
      Qaurks can't make a liquid but they can form a gas. This gas happens to act like a superfluid.

      This is wrong. Quark-gluon plasma doesn't behave like a superfluid. However, it does behave like a low-viscosity liquid, in some states, according to RHIC.
      The correct term for this phenomenon is a superfluid. I'm not going to go find definitions for you because you can type them up on google yourself.

      A superfluid state occurs when you have condensation of a finite fraction of bosons (true particles or quasiparticles) into the ground state (Bose-Einstein condensation) in a way that leads to non-classical rotational inertia. The article is not talking about a superfluid state.
  6. This ain't superfluid, dammit. by caffeinated_bunsen · · Score: 4, Informative
    First the nanotube article, which made the mistake of thinking "really good conductor == superconductor" and now "really low-viscosity fluid == superfluid."

    Superfluid means more than low viscosity. Specifically, it indicates that the fluid is a degenarate Bose system, which the quark-gluon whateverthefuckitis is not. But the article submitter probably reads science articles in Wired and the NYT, and thinks he can throw the cool-sounding jargon around without anybody noticing that it's bullshit.

    --

    Bugrit! Millenium hand and shrimp!
    1. Re:This ain't superfluid, dammit. by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Informative

      Specifically, it indicates that the fluid is a degenarate Bose system, which the quark-gluon whateverthefuckitis is not.
      Some superfluids are degenerate Bose systems, e.g., helium-4. But some are fermionic, e.g., helium-3, or nuclear matter in its ordinary (cold) state.

    2. Re:This ain't superfluid, dammit. by Quantum+Fizz · · Score: 3, Informative
      The slashdot writeup uses the wrong terminology, but it's a similar concept. So whoever put the title as 'superfluid' was mistaken and should have written 'perfect fluid'.

      A superfluid refers to a viscosity-less fluid. The most common being He4, which is easy to produce, just cool liquid helium down to about 2.2K. This has to do with the quantum interactions between the helium atoms, and is similar but different to a Bose-Einstein Condensate. The He4 atoms have an even number of fermions (two protons, two neutrons, 2 electrons) and act like Bosons. Ie, they aren't restricted to Pauli Exclusion principle, and can all be in the same state.

      Another superfluid can come from He3, a rarer isotope of helium. The He3 atoms themselves, now having an odd number of fermions, act like fermions, and obey Pauli Exclusion. However, at cold enough temperatures (a few mK) they can pair together, thereby acting like a Boson, and can also form a superfluid. This is a process fairly similar to the Cooper pairing of two electrons in a superconductor (in the superconductor the normally repulsive electrons are paired through a phonon interchange mediated through the material's lattice).

      Now regarding the quark-gluon soup, the physicists are talking about a perfect fluid. I just saw a physics colloquium by one of these researchers a few weeks ago, and unfortunately I don't remember the details. But basically if you take a ratio or some other mathematical function of the viscosity and another hydrodynamic parameter I can't remember, like surface tension or something, in a perfect fluid these approach some standard value such as unity or zero or some such. (this confuses me now because the ratio in question is either zero or infinity if a helium superfluid viscosity is exactly zero, so this is why i am hesitant to say anything definitively about which mathematical function or quantities are measured).

      No such perfect fluid is known to exist, and of all known fluids the closest one can come to it is a cryogenic superfluid, which has a value like 4 or 4pi or something like that. All other known fluids have this value substantially larger.

      Regarding the quark-plasma soup, I believe the speaker said this wouldn' necessarily display the same properties of a quantum superfluid, maybe not perfect viscosity, I really don't remember exactly. I was trying to talk to him a bit afterwards, but I didn't know enough about the physics of superfluidity to really get into the details.

  7. Re:light travel problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'll bite.

    The universe is not 6.8 billion years old. It's far older and the proof is our sun. Sol is a third generation star, its makeup is proof in that it's a meager yellow dwarf which will grow large then collapse into a white dwarf. Its parent and grandparent detonated in an amazing supernova which led to the ignition of Sol.

    The fact that our solar system is full of heavier elements is proof of our sun's age and lineage. Each atom of lithium, carbon and iron was created in the heat of a supernova.

  8. We call it a Trillion by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, thousands of Billions, because people are too stupid to know that the word Trillion exists?

    Well, now I know why nobody is worried about the US national debt. 7 Trillion is, like, practially nothing. Let me know when we get to 7000 Billion and I'll start getting worried. And don't tell me that millions of millions crap - it just gets confusing. Besides, a million isn't as much as it used to be. Inflation, you know.

    Hint: after Trillion, the next is Quadrillion, and then (hold you breath) Quintillion. Gosh it's, like, a pattern!

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:We call it a Trillion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not to us brits. Our have a different naming scheme, that counts by factors of 6 after a factor of 18, as opposed to by factors of 3 after 3.

      109 - millard (billion)
      1018 - billion (quintillion)
      1024 - trillion (septillion)

      And so forth.

      You insensitive clod!

    2. Re:We call it a Trillion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Trillion. See Names of large numbers..

    3. Re:We call it a Trillion by sbryant · · Score: 3, Informative

      10^9: Millard (not commonly used)

      Not in English so much, but very common in German. A billion in Germany is always 10^12, and never 10^9.

      Damn those 17th century Frenchies for changing the 200 year old long scale to the short scale, I say! Well, the Germans may not be known for their humour, but they are very good engineers, and they don't like their mathematical standards being changed. Actually, the Americans only changed because they were on better terms with the French than the British after their revolution.

      I wasn't aware that the official scale in the UK and Oz had been changed, but when I did physics and maths at school, we never used "million" or "billion" as terms - we always had to specify large numbers like this: 1.234 * 10^12.

      Here's a link with more info on the subject.

      -- Steve

  9. Re:Universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Friedmann equations which form the basis for standard cosmology in general relativity, treat the universe as a perfect fluid, a non-interacting medium characterized by only its density and (isotropic) pressure (the Weyl postulate). Basically, it treats whole galaxies as "particles" in a "cosmological fluid".

  10. Re:Universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Yes your are correct but he was refering to the fact that the word liquid was being used. Liquid and fluid are to completly different things despite common belief. So technically you both are correct in that the univerise is not a liquid but can be explained by fluidics.

  11. Supersolids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    However, it may well be possible for solids to exhibit superfluid flow. How? Imagine the flow of a liquid, except that all the atoms in the liquid have a crystal structure, and that entire structure is flowing in lockstep while maintaining a rigid crystalline structure. When Bose-Einstein condensation comes into play, you can have macroscopic coherence of atoms across the entire bulk of material.

    Kim and Chan at Penn State claim to have created a supersolid state of matter in helium (and now, hydrogen). It's arguably the biggest experimental result in condensed matter physics right now; if confirmed, it will probably mean the Nobel Prize. However, theoretical studies have so far failed to unambiguously predict the existence of such as state of matter; there are arguments for and against, and the dust hasn't settled. If other experimental groups can replicate these results, we'll know for sure, regardless of whether theory has caught up with nature.

  12. Re:Black holes also being created at RHIC? by Baatezu · · Score: 2, Informative

    Tiny black holes couldn't be earth devouring. A black hole is a mass that has shrunk to the point to where escape velocity is greater than the speed of light. So a tiny black hole that was, say comprised of 200kg, would have no moure earth devouring ability (gravitationally) than a 200kg person.

    if the sun instantly shrunk to a black hole, there would be no change in the earths orbit, or any of the planets, the gravitational pull would be _exactly_ the same as before.

    Just some clarification on what a common misconception of blackholes being 'devouring' objects.

  13. Re:Question? by TheBurrito · · Score: 2, Informative

    Entropy. Over cosmic scales, clumping together becomes the lower energy state due to gravity's small but extremely wide-ranging effects.

  14. Mod parent down - incorrect. by dr.+loser · · Score: 4, Informative

    The parent comment is a non-sequitor.

    The CMB results have very little to do with the Brookhaven RHIC results. The CMB uniformity tells you nothing about the hydrodynamic properties of the quark-gluon plasma. The CMB does tell you about the electron-nucleon plasma that happened later.

    And yes, I am a physicist.

  15. Get the papers here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The papers from the RHIC collaborations. The "liquid" state of quark-gluon plasma being discussed is called a color glass condensate.

  16. 1 trillion by doppe1 · · Score: 4, Informative
    From trillion

    We are all agreed that 1 million = 1x10^6.

    In the world (Britain, France, and Germany) where 1 billion = 1 million million (1x10^12), then 1 trillion = 1 million billion (1x10^18) or another way 1 trillion = 1 million million million (tri-million), or million cubed, to the power of three, as in tri.

    In the parts of the wolrd (US & Canada) where 1 billion = 1000 million (1x10^9), then 1 trillion = 1 million million (1x10^12) so 1 trillion = 1000 billion.

    As it is an American lab, it will be 1x10^12.
    Personally, i feel the Americans just like their numbers sounding bigger.

  17. Re:Black holes also being created at RHIC? by evanbd · · Score: 2, Informative
    Hmmm. I'm pretty sure that there's a (theoretical) limit - once your black hole is smaller than an atom, well, it doesn't really bump into too much.

    You're halfway there, but for the wrong reason. A tiny black hole just bumps into atomic nuclei less frequently, since it is sitting in a big pool of them (the Earth, since it fell out of whatever created it).

    The problem with all this, however, is that tiny black holes evaporate, and therefore won't stick around very long. Physics collider ones don't stick around long enough to leave the vacuum chamber, let alone fall through the floor. See also Micro black holes.

  18. ...Not The biggest Collider by polemon · · Score: 2, Informative

    The statement "The biggest collider" is not correct, a simmilar installation, but by ways larger is the CERN in Genf (Switzerland). The LHC (Large Hadron Collider) measures about 7 Kilometers, or 4.34 Miles in Circumference. According to the CERN Website, a new gigantic collider is planned, that will measure incomprehensable 49 Kilometers in circumference. Another new hadron collider is the TESLA Installation in Hamburg (Germany). It will be a Tandem linear Collider, with it's origin in the DESY complex, wich is a pretty large Research installation itself, check their Website.

    --
    EOF