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Going Beyond Fermat's Last Theorem

amjith writes "An Indian mathematician, Chandrashekhar Khare, is poised to make a significant breakthrough in the field of number theory with his solution of part of a major outstanding problem in algebraic number theory. He is currently an associate professor in Mathematics Department of University of Utah. "

58 of 357 comments (clear)

  1. Papers by Khare by yodha · · Score: 4, Informative
  2. And being Indian ... by ggvaidya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    is in any way relevant why?

    1. Re:And being Indian ... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, they did practically invent Algebra, so I guess it's of interest from a historical perspective.

    2. Re:And being Indian ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      And being an associate professor and at the University of Utah. Why oh why do they flood us with these details? :(

    3. Re:And being Indian ... by viscount · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's extra information about the guy that made the breakthrough. It explains why the article that describes the achievement is The Hindu - an Indian newspaper. Obviously you are trying to make a not-so-subtle 'it's racist' comment. Would you have been quite so quick to jump on your high horse if the mathematician was of a different nationality - say American or British?

    4. Re:And being Indian ... by fatmonkeyboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe it's not, but then neither is the fact that he's an associate professor at the Mathematics Department of the University of Utah.

      It's pretty common to mention where people are from when giving a news story. It's part of the human interest.

      I mean, look at the "Science" page RIGHT NOW:

      "First hypothesized to be possible 30 years ago by Russian physicist Victor Veselago, meta-material..."

      See? Russian physicist.

      Are you trying to imply there's some sort of racial overtone to the article? I don't get it.

    5. Re:And being Indian ... by lawpoop · · Score: 4, Informative
      I thought is was muslims who did the most work on it in the western world.

      From the wikipedia article: "The word algebra itself comes from the name of the treatise first written by a Persian mathematician Al-Khwarizmi 700 AD, who wrote a treatise titled: Kitab al-mukhtasar fi Hisab Al-Jabr wa-al-Moghabalah meaning The book of summary concerning calculating by transposition and reduction. The word al-jabr (from which algebra is derived) means "reunion", "connection" or "completion"."

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    6. Re:And being Indian ... by ggvaidya · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Okay, point duly noted :).

      It does just seemed to me as if the point'd been made gratuitously, though. Associate Prof (his current job status in the field: it would've be much more interesting if the breakthrough had come from a full Prof, or a grad student) and University of Utah (if you were interested in following up on it) seems to be more relevant than the country he was born in.

      When was the last time Albert Einstein was refered to as "that German professor", or Isaac Newton as "that English scientist"? It's just not relevant.

      Maybe it's just me.

    7. Re:And being Indian ... by Mantorp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      not according to Wikipedia. They got Babylonians, Greeks, Egyptians, Persians and Chinese in the summary. Maybe their outsourcing contracts required that the credit goes to those other countries.

    8. Re:And being Indian ... by jea6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It was relevant in the context of the original article, published for an Indian audience on hindu.com.

      --

      sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
    9. Re:And being Indian ... by tjstork · · Score: 4, Informative

      Muslims borrowed heavily from India when they invaded India. The Islamic role in the sciences tended to be more about preserving the best of what they had conquered. As traders, they acted as a point where that knowledge could be disseminated to Europe.

      --
      This is my sig.
    10. Re:And being Indian ... by zzz1357 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Because Indians are naturally better at higher math than other ethnic groups. Which is why, incidentally, that the early settlers in America tried to wipe them out.

      --
      You can't add pianos and telephones.
    11. Re:And being Indian ... by greenplato · · Score: 5, Funny

      That may be true, but you'll never truly understand Algebra until you read it in its original Klingon.

    12. Re:And being Indian ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      They're trying to prove that there is at least 1 non-white guy in Utah.

    13. Re:And being Indian ... by Xoro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, it's just you.

      The phrase you find so objectionable is *the first paragraph* of the the linked article in The Hindu, written by one " T. Jayaraman".

      "MUMBAI: An Indian mathematician, Chandrashekhar Khare, is poised to make a significant breakthrough in the field of number theory: with his solution of part of a major outstanding problem in algebraic number theory."

      http://www.hindu.com/2005/04/25/stories/20050425 06 530100.htm

      One suspects that The Hindu wrote it that way because The Hindu takes a special interest in Indians around the world and their achievements -- does this make them racists?

      Only to you.

      --
      Kill, Tux, kill!
    14. Re:And being Indian ... by Omega1045 · · Score: 3, Informative
      That is a really good point. In Muslim control Spain, the Jewish population enjoyed a "Renaissance" of sorts. At that point, Hebrew was an almost dead language. Under the rule of the Moors, the Jews regained much of their cultural identity and created many works of art and literature.

      http://www.fiestasiesta.co.uk/history/jews.html

      --

      Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

    15. Re:And being Indian ... by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Informative

      you got the wrong indians there buddy.

    16. Re:And being Indian ... by say · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When was the last time Albert Einstein was refered to as "that German professor", or Isaac Newton as "that English scientist"? It's just not relevant.

      Uh... every textbook I've ever read refer to them that way, until the author of the textbook assumes that you know them and their history already.

      I checked my introduction to philosophy textbook, which almost exclusively refers to philosophers by nationality in the first paragraph they're mentioned.

      I think it's just you, yes.

      --
      Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
    17. Re:And being Indian ... by greatmazinger · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's a reason it's called the Hindu-Arabic number system.....
      http://scitsc.wlv.ac.uk/university/scit/modules/mm 2217/han.htm

  3. Somebody give that man tenure, quick! by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have a feeling a lot of excellent math departments will be looking to hire this guy from Utah.

    1. Re:Somebody give that man tenure, quick! by DrewCapu · · Score: 5, Funny

      Too late, the San Francisco 49ers already drafted him.

      Oh wait.

  4. But... by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
    > An Indian mathematician, Chandrashekhar Khare, is poised to make a significant breakthrough in the field of number theory with his solution of part of a major outstanding problem in algebraic number theory.

    503 - Service Unavailable. There is insufficient bandwidth in the server room to supply you with a copy of this paper.

    1. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I have discovered a truely remarkable proof for this theorem which the bandwidth of the server is unable to contain.

  5. Isnt everybody? by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know I'm poised to make a huge breakthrough, unfortunately I can never seem to make it over that last hurdle, which is, you know.. to make the actual breakthrough.

    1. Re:Isnt everybody? by Timesprout · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm the same. The problem with number theory for me is that they just dont add up.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:Isnt everybody? by wfijvvz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is that unproffesionalism on his part? Or on the part of the idiotic journalists picking up a story before it was ready? Science works because scientists communicate. "Hey I plan on attacking this problem using this two part method. I'll let you know how it goes!" "Here is what I've done so far. That's part one. It looks like it's going well, but it might not work. I'll let you know how it goes!"

  6. Re:Another one? by rdwald · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At least this Indian mathematician is still alive. :)

    Even better, at least this Indian mathematician has a name.

  7. Fast Tenure for him by afstanton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If htis pans out as well as it looks like it will, this guy will be a full professor in no time flat.

    --
    Reject Fear - Embrace Hope
  8. What is it about? by ghoti · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could somebody explain what this is about, and what this would mean? There isn't any concrete information on that in TFA ...

    Besides, this is kinda vaporware. Why is this even news? Why not talk about it once it's done?

    --
    EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
    1. Re:What is it about? by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Funny

      This proof will be the final step in achieving a 10x performance increase in the DNF rendering engine. We can expect to see DNF released shortly after this guy completes the solution.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
  9. Poised? by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Funny

    So he's involved with outlining a two-part solution... and he's completed one part of it. That's sort of an actual accomplishment, isn't it?

    I mean, I'm poised to win the lottery. He's actually doing things.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Poised? by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 4, Funny
      So he's involved with outlining a two-part solution... and he's completed one part of it.

      So, he's involved with outlining the first part of a potential two-part solution to something that is only a theory?

  10. Actual info by vossman77 · · Score: 4, Informative

    He has proved what is known to specialists in the field as the `level-1 case of the Serre conjecture.' In earlier work done with the French mathematician, J.P. Wintenberger, in December 2004, Dr. Khare outlined a two-part general strategy to prove the Serre conjecture fully. The present result is a first key step.

    Wikipedia page for Serre conjecture

  11. you might want to change the URL by neye_eve · · Score: 3, Informative

    the underline appears all the way through " to make a significant breakthrough in the field of number theory with his solution "

    even though the word "solution" leads to a different link than all of the preceding words.

  12. Serre Conjecture by 00squirrel · · Score: 4, Interesting
    More info about the Serre Conjecture can be found here.

    Pretty exciting stuff! (Relatively speaking, of course :-)

    1. Re:Serre Conjecture by tbjw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Somebody mod the parent '-1 Misleading'. There are two problems commonly known as the "Serre conjecture", and the parent happens to point to the wrong one. This problem has very little to do with number theory.

      It's probably best to refer to the conjecture that is on the verge of being solved as "Serre's reciprocity conjecture".

      The other conjecture was solved in 1976, and ought to be called "The Quillen-Suslin Theorem", except that that also could refer to another related but different result.

  13. Re:Explanation needed by vossman77 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It was proved in 1995 by English mathematician Andrew Wiles.

    Wikipedia page of the theorem

    I don't follow the field close enough to know its relation to Serre's multiplicity conjectures.

  14. I thought... by Stalyn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    that Serre's Conjecture was already proven?

    --
    The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    1. Re:I thought... by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 3, Informative

      umm.. no.. 3 of the 4 conjectures have been proven.. positivity of R/p and R/Q is still in question.. and no.. showing that it is non negative is not a proof of positivity.. 0 is not positive.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  15. Every day... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...hundreds of new mathemtical theorems are discovered by people around the world. Many of these become peer reviewed and published. So why is this particular one on the front page? It's basically unknown outside of mathematical circles and is posted on a web site where any crackpot can post. Shall we start having stories about JSH on sci.math?

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  16. Re:encryption by tomstdenis · · Score: 3, Informative

    Um ... the only one related to crypto would be the theorem that a^p mod p == a if p is prime and a is co-prime to p.

    That's not only not the famous Fermat Last Theorem but it's also trivially provable with basic number theory.

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  17. The Inevitable "What Use" Question by DumbSwede · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just to speculate on a possible "what use" question that might arise, I can't help but notice the line This is one of the central themes of modern research in number theory and is devoted to the study of the relation between the symmetries of number theory and geometry. . If I may be so bold, anything that ties the study of pure math to geometry probably has implications for quantum mechanics. These objects may lie embedded in higher dimensions, and probably settle into stable configurations from near infinite possibilities. But they still have to satisfy some allowable mathematical model. This is just the type of thing that may allow us to better predict what those allowable states could be.

  18. Beyond Fermat by amightywind · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is the real problem beyond Fermat

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
  19. If it's Fermat's last theorem.. by HungSoLow · · Score: 3, Funny
    How can you go beyond it? Is it not the last?!

    *ducks*

  20. Is there a webcam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because I love to watch hot math action.

    No! no! Introduce a Lemma!
    Ya that's it, Proof by Counter-Example, that's the way I like it.

  21. Incredible!!! by Aumaden · · Score: 3, Funny
    Wow, and to think, Utah's Net Porn law has only been in effect for 4.5 weeks.

    With this kind of progress, we should have FTL engines by the end of next year.

  22. Don't be so PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Being Indian is totally irrelevant to the story

    *sigh*

    But the story isn't using "Indian" in a racist way. It's merely an addition, perhaps to shed some "interesting" light on his background outside of his area of research. Not everything that mentions somebody's ethnicity is racist.

    You sound like one of those overly-PC people who make things difficult for everyone, just for the sake of trying to live up to some misplaced "holier than thou" moral code.

    Person1: "See those kids playing? One of them is my niece."
    Person2: "Which one?"
    Person1: "The black-haired one."
    Person2: "There are six of them."
    Person1: "The one in the blue shirt."
    Person2: "That leaves four..."
    Person1: "Ummm, the one with the sandals..."
    Person2: "Three..."
    Person1: "...and the red ball."
    Person1: "Oh, you mean the black girl? Cute kid."

  23. Re:GO UTES by Lovesquid · · Score: 2, Funny

    All your football coach are belong to us.
    Go Gators.

  24. Hmmm... by MrByte420 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Waiting on a math major to give a long-winded set of analogies to make this somehow releevant to the masses....

    --
    If religous zealots don't believe in Evolution, then why are they so worried about bird flu?
  25. Re:Explanation needed by saforrest · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can any expert confirm this or explain why this is relevant?

    Yes, Fermat's Last Theorem was proven by Andrew Wiles in the early nineties.

    This result would (apparently) supply another proof. Like the first, it would rely on quite complex and modern mathematics, but a slightly different sort than before.

    The thing is that Fermat's Last Theorem is not especially important to mathematics; it's mostly a historical curiosity. However, it is a simple enough equation that anyone with a smattering of mathematics can understand: all you need to understand is exponentiation and addition operations, what an equation is, and what integers are. Plus, the story about Fermat's boast makes good press. These things make the equation famous.

    So, the fact that this may prove Fermat's Last Theorem is icing on the cake, but for mathematicians the importance of the result is in its major implications for a vast field of research (algebraic geometry).

    If it is actually proven, that is. I have seen enough popular accounts of some mathematician "on the verge of proving X" to not put much trust in such things. Wiles was wise to work in secret.

  26. Serre's Conjecture by ThosLives · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I went hunting to find out what the Conjecture is since it appears to be so important, and stumbled across this It appears that this was already proved in 1976 and is now known as the Quillen-Suslin Theorem.

    I wonder, is there a second Serre's Conjecture, or do people not do research any more to see if their work has already been done? Every link I can find for Serre's Conjecture or Quillen-Suslin Theorem indicates that it has already been proved (Quillen got the Fields medal in 1978).

    --
    "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
  27. Re:erm by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a pure mathematician and I think this story is both uninteresting and irrelevant. It's not nerdy at all. It's a parochial feel-good story for Indians but unfortunately, because it's available over the world, that's to the Web, it's been mistaken for relevant story about something interesting.

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  28. Re:More importantly by NarrMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    We need to find some Weapons of Math Instruction...

    --
    That's right. All your base.
  29. Slashdot and mathematics breakthroughs... by hanssprudel · · Score: 5, Informative

    This site does not have a very good record with mathematical breakthroughs that it runs on the front page. Just to give some examples:

    1) A year and a half ago Slashdot ran a story (along with most of the MSM) about a Swedish girl having solved the 16th Hilbert problem. That turned out to be a completely bogus claim - she had, in fact, proved nothing.

    2) Slashdot ran with there being infinitely many twin primes. The proof was flawed.

    3) No, the Riemann hypothesis (the most coveted result in all of Mathematics) has not been proved.

    Those are just the examples I can remember off hand. There have been several more, and I cannot think of a single one that has turned out to actually be true. So please take vague stories about being "poised to make a great story" from local press with a pretty hefty grain of salt...

    1. Re:Slashdot and mathematics breakthroughs... by avandesande · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Methinks that mathmatics is a fertile ground for boondogglers who are willing to do *anything* to get a story submitted on /. I think that if the editors can't figure out WTF the article is about they shouldn't post it.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  30. A story by Carthag · · Score: 4, Funny

    I heard a better story, but I have no idea if it's true or not.

    There was a guy from Jamaica who had to go to the hospital for some reason, and he was driven there by his friend. When filling out the forms, he neglected to fill out the race field, and the receptionist nurse told him that he should check African-American.

    He tried to explain to her that he was neither African nor American, even showing her his passport. Eventually he had to point out his (white) friend, who as coincidence has it was of South African descent and an American citizen. An African American, so to speak.

    Regrettably, I don't remember how the whole thing ended.

    1. Re:A story by spuzzzzzzz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So is Mexico. Are Mexicans Americans? What about Chileans?

      --

      Don't you hate meta-sigs?
  31. A little exposition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Glancing over the responses so far, I've come across several links to "the" Serre conjecture. Of course, since this is Slashdot (Land of the Karma Whore) it also looks like not a one of those referred to the conjecture relevant to this discussion.

    The particular conjecture of Serre that matters here focuses on the two-dimensional representations over a finite field of the Galois group Gal(Qbar/Q). Now since that's not particularly illuminating, let me say a bit more...

    First, Qbar denotes the algebraic completion of the rational numbers -- that is, all the stuff you need to add to the rationals so that you can do stuff like factor polynomials with rational coefficients. So things like sqrt(2) are in Qbar, but transcental numbers like pi aren't.

    Gal(Qbar/Q) is the group of symmetries of Qbar over Q -- the ways you can map it to itself while still preserving multiplication and addition, and leaving the rational numbers inside Qbar alone. For instance, complex conjugation gives an element of the Galois group.

    Now one way to understand any group of symmetries is by looking at its "linear representations" -- basically, ways of assigning matrices to each of the symmetries so that matrix multiplication matches up with the composition of symmetries.

    The conjecture talked about here claims to describe (in some sense) all such (irreducible) representations of Gal(Qbar/Q), at least if you limit yourself to 2x2 matrices and coefficients in a finite field.

    This is similar to the Langlands Correspondence, which (among other things) deals with representations of Gal(Qbar/Q) by complex matrices (though not just 2x2).