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3D Projection Rumoured to be The Revolution

Posted by Zonk on from the computer,-lights-up dept.

mars soup eel writes "Cube.IGN is reporting that Brooke Burgess (of Broken Saints) has let the proverbial cat out of the bag concerning Nintendo's new Revolution console. The big secret (assuming the rumors are true)? 3D projection." From the article: "At the core of the theory sits how Revolution will display games: through a form of real-time 3D projection. That's right folks, along the lines of a classic 50s monster movie. Nintendo itself has stated that what it plans to use on Revolution isn't all that unique, only that it has never been applied to videogames. Taking that into account, plus recent patents filed by Nintendo, and it doesn't sound all that far fetched, argues Burgess." As always, take this with a grain of salt.

32 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. Not a bad idea... by black+mariah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they can implement this and do it RIGHT then I'll be impressed. While this smacks of Virtual Boy 2, I'd really like to see something like this made to work right.

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    1. Re:Not a bad idea... by IorDMUX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Virtual Boy failed because it was too large to be a handheld yet not "console" enough to take it's place with the television.

      The problem with trying to express 3-D with video games is that the utterly ubiqtuous display device of choice is quite 2-D.

      It seems their options are:
      * 3-D glasses (not necessarily the red-blue type, there are many options nowadays; but would gamers really want to wear them?)
      * Head mounted displays (Virtual Boy again?)
      * Filter array displays (Average cost upwards of $1000)

      So what'll it be, Nintendo?

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    2. Re:Not a bad idea... by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I loved the Virtual Boy, but my worry is the glasses. My guess is wireless LCD shutter based glasses if all this is true. The problem is I wear glasses (basically blind w/o 'em). I have never seen any kind of 3D glasses system that works well for people like me. This would be the biggest problem to solve.

      As for gyroscopic controllers, I'm not sure how well that would work, but if anyone can do it, Nintendo can. The touchscreen controller idea sounds good, but reminds me a bit of the Jaguar's 12 button section on the controller you put button guides around. But the touch screen opens up MUCH more possibilities.

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    3. Re:Not a bad idea... by PhosterPharms · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, see, I can't stand the IMax3D glasses. I have horrible vision in one eye and fairly good vision in the other, so the whole thing is just a bad experience. Couple that with the fact that I can almost see the shutters blinking (it's enough to distract me, and give me a headache, even though it's fast enough to not actually see) and the whole experience is underwhelming. I hope Nintendo is planning a different sort of Revolution.

    4. Re:Not a bad idea... by Malor · · Score: 4, Informative

      IMAX glasses don't have shutters and don't blink. There is no blinking in IMAX at all. The IMAX system uses polarized light; one eye is polarized vertically and one is polarized horizontally. The light projected on the screen comes from two separate projectors and is also polarized. The glasses reject the 'wrong' light for each eye and allow only the 'right' light through. (If you take the glasses off, you will see two images projected on the screen.)

      That's the reason you can't quite see the flicker. It's imaginary.

    5. Re:Not a bad idea... by Nalgas+D.+Lemur · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even though this rumor is probably not true, I worry about this same thing with anything that does end up using 3D glasses. Not only do I wear glasses, but I have weird corneas, and almost no type of 3D display works properly for me at all.

      I could tolerate the Virtual Boy, but I haven't used it in a few years, and my vision has gotten a little worse since then. The last time I was in an IMAX theater, I completely couldn't make sense of the 3D previews while wearing the glasses. Not only did it not look 3D, it was very hard to even figure out what was going on. Luckily, the movie I was there to see wasn't 3D, so I was able to watch that fine.

      I'm a bit worried about where 3D displays will head in the future, because they could end up leaving out part of their audience if people with vision problems can't see them properly. I realize there's not really much to be done about making music listenable for deaf people or videos seeable for blind people (at least until those problems can be physically corrected in some way with implants or something), but there are probably plenty more people (compared to the number of completely blind and/or dead people) who can see and hear well enough to use the current output devices just fine but for whom some of the fancy new ideas won't work. Hopefully we won't all get left out in the future.

    6. Re:Not a bad idea... by CanadianBoy · · Score: 2, Funny

      What was wrong with the red and blue cardboard glasses?

    7. Re:Not a bad idea... by PhosterPharms · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was about to call shenanagans on this one until I found out that there are two systems for IMAX3D. The system you are talking about sounds like the one used at Disneyland with the pink glasses on rides like Captain EO, or the Muppets one or the Honey I Shrunk the Kids one, which I have absolutely no problem viewing and find very entertaining and convincing. They used to have an informative video before Captain EO that explained how they polarized the light and whatnot.

      The only IMAX3D movie I saw was at the Luxor in Vegas, and I had to wear these big, bulky grey shutterglasses. You had to push a button at the beginning of the movie to calibrate them if I recall correctly. I know the difference between shutterglasses and the polarized glasses from Disney. Just to reiterate, this shutterglass movie was horrible and I would never see any IMAX3D movie again for fear that it uses the shutterglasses. For linkage verifying that there are two types of IMAX3D, check out this page at IMAX.

    8. Re:Not a bad idea... by Elranzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have a feeling if Nintendo ever does go 3rd-party (and I do hope to a just and loving God that they don't), they'd more likely either be exclusive to Sony or equally develop for both. But I highly doubt they'd be exclusive to Microsoft.

      While it would seem to make sense since both Nintendo (of America) and Microsoft are next-door neighbors in Redmond, remember that Nintendo is primarily a Japanese company and more likely to side with the Japanese competitor (Sony) should this happen.

    9. Re:Not a bad idea... by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since a 3D-glasses rendering would basically be two independant 3D renderings, mixed in a post-processing phase, I'd image the console having a switch which would allow a plain 3D rendering like we have nowadays.
      Not just for people with disabilities like yours but also for party games when there's just not enough glasses for everyone to watch the fun.
      Since party games are a Nintendo-owned niche, they'd be stupid not to include the option.

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  2. Hm by FLAGGR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How would culling work? Does it like project a 3D scene out into your room, if so then it would have to be a pretty powerful machine, since you couldn't cull none visible polygons. What would the viewing distance on something like this be? Hmm I'm having a hard time imagining but major props to the big N if they pull it off.

    1. Re:Hm by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. This is not a hologram-like technology. Look instead for either 3-D glasses, or some other (more sophisticated, less red-and-blue) optical tricks.

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    2. Re:Hm by LordStraun · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sadly, I doubt the next N console is gonna have holo-deck type processing power.
      Most likely it'll be some sort of LCD-shutter glasses technology, as already used in '3D' movies.

      I find the claim "only that it has never been applied to videogames" somewhat misleading, as this technology has been available for PC games for many years (http://www.xforce3d.com/) It will, however, be the first time such technology has been natively supported by a game platform.

      As for culling, the use of this pseudo-3D technology isn't going to change a thing.. your POV will remain the same, just the illusion of depth will be enhanced. Also, consider that if the hardware is powerful enough, some forms of culling (such as back-face) are unnecessary. Take for example the PS2 with it's 2.56Kb graphics pipeline.. I've heard developers rarely need to do backface culling with it.

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  3. Re:I have no idea what this means by black+mariah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy

    --
    'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
  4. That's right by briancnorton · · Score: 5, Funny

    The revolution will not be televised!
    Well, at least not like normal.

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  5. Bogus Speculation by iridium_ionizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Nintendo itself has stated that what it plans to use on Revolution isn't all that unique, only that it has never been applied to videogames. Taking that into account, plus recent patents filed by Nintendo, and it doesn't sound all that far fetched, argues Burgess.

    The "argues" implies speculation. Furthermore, I say it is bogus because even if Nintendo doesn't want to remember Virtual Boy, certainly they remember 3-D World Runner for the NES.
    http://www.gamespot.com/nes/action/3dbattlesofworl drunnerthe/index.html?q=runner

    I think it came with glasses. And although the 3-D mode wasn't top notch, it was 3-D. You could also turn the 3-D mode off. Have fun by running around a planet in four directions (NSEW) fighting impressive sprite dragons (although they didn't look like real dragons they did look quasi 3D).

    1. Re:Bogus Speculation by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, my Vectrex, which is still in the basement, had great 3-d done with goggles with a spinning color disc in them.

      I have yet to see this 3-d gaming system, circa 1982, topped.

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  6. Behind and ahead of their time. by Fiz+Ocelot · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Burgess references several inside "sources" who claim they know Revolution controllers will support positional shifts as experienced in Kirby's Tilt 'n' Tumble.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who would jerk the controller all over the place when playing Super Mario Bros. on the NES right?... Every time I jumped I'd lift the controller up, finally they're catching on.

    As to the stereoscopic idea, I think doing it before theatres may hurt them, being slightly ahead of their time. If people get hooked on it by big budget summer blockbusters that's great for them.

  7. I just hope... by kryogen1x · · Score: 2, Informative
    ...if this technology is actually implemented into the revolution, then it won't cost an astronomical amount of money. I believe low cost was one of the selling points for the Gamecube, and it would be wise for Nintendo to keep the costs down.

    From TFA:

    If that's not enough, he goes on. During the ShoWest film conference, a panel featuring George Lucus, Robert Zemekis, James Cameron, Robert Rodriguez...

    At least it's not George Mucus.

  8. Already proven false by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Burgess's article has since been debunked. The patent he bases his speculation on is for an in-game camera system. There is absolutely no mention of 3D projection technology.

    The other support for his speculation was that Nintendo demo'd a new peripheral for the Gamecube behind closed doors at E3 2004, but this ended up being the microphone that shipped with Mario Party 6.

    This is the most halfassed "next generation console" rumor ever perpetrated. Burgess was too lazy to do thirty seconds worth of reading and now he's being rewarded with lots of hits from curious fanboys.

    *sigh*

  9. Fruit flies like a banana by cliffiecee · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's right folks, along the lines of a classic 50s monster movie.

    You mean, the games will be created in Japan and feature people in rubber monster suits?

    Wow...

  10. Not likely by PhoenixOne · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Unless I'm missing something, I'm thinking this isn't real or it will be the last console Nintendo ever makes.

    If the 1990's VR craze has taught us anything, it is that most people do not like wearing things on their head and I doubt they have come up with a way to "beam" these images into thin air.

    More power to them if they want to innovate new gaming technology but this is so out of left field that I doubt any developer outside of Nintendo would try to do anything with it.

    --
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    1. Re:Not likely by simcop2387 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's actually an OGL wrapper that does exactly this, i've played with it a bit but i didn't have even any red-blue glasses with me so it was kinda moot, its got linux support also. worth checking out

      its called VRiser
      http://futurelab.aec.at/vrizer/

  11. Didn't they try this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Gpod help me if I could only find the links but...

    I think around E3 2000, or 2002, or somewhere in between then and now (vague enough for you? sorry), Nintendo had a large snow-globe-looking 3D projection system they were going to unveil at E3 that year. It was an add-on for the N64 if I recall correction, and I remember seeing pictures of it (probably mock ups?), but when E3 finally came around the device was a no-show.

    It sounds like this is just a repitition of where they were headed then, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned it yet. It honestly looked like a flop to me, but was so "out-there" that I thought it would get more attention or at least be remembered with this latest post.

  12. Let's think about this practically by briancnorton · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There are many ways to greate 3D images. I think it's a safe assumption that you won't have to buy a new TV to participate in the revolution, so there are limited options as to how this can work.

    One way is to interlace offset frames and wear shutter glasses. You lose part of your horizontal FOV and they give people headaches, and is only really practical on CRTs. Another way would be the REAL way that 50's movies worked with an anaglyph. (blue/red seperation) but that usually looks like crap.

    That all said, Call me a skeptic.

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  13. The journalistic pillar! by focitrixilous+P · · Score: 3, Funny
    It comes from IGN! Surely this is truth.

    Wait. IGN is right on par with supermarket tabloids.

    In other news, Princess Peach is pregnant with Master Chief's child! See page 11!

    --
    SAILING MISHAP
  14. Calm Down Everyone by Elranzer · · Score: 2, Informative

    Who the hell said this was set in stone? This is a rumor. I highly doubt that Nintendo is going to make a mistake when they know what the people want. These are the same people who made Link older in the upcoming Zelda 2005 because it's what the people were crying about. I also doubt Nintendo is going to bring to the attention anything that even slightly resembles Virtual Boy.

    Please give Nintendo more credit than claiming that they're gonna put some ancient 3D gimmick effect in their new console that will scare off consumers and 3rd-party publishers. These are the people who (currently) have been in the business longer than anyone else has (can't claim Atari now, they're gone). Everyone needs to stop preparing for Nintendo's funeral, it's not coming any time soon.

  15. Re:What does this have to do with revolution? by Elranzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone realize that the terms "Revolution" and "360" (degrees) are related? I wonder if Microsoft and Nintendo know something that we dont...

  16. Bullshit by ThePolkapunk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is a load of crap. Nintendo has repeatedly said that this will operate conventionally on the television, and that the "revolution" for the system is the method of control. This guy has no idea what he's talking about. Just tossing out more fud that slashdot is gleefully snatching up.

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  17. ..okay, so no goggles.. by jx100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Way back before the release of the DS, I ran across a story saying that Nintendo licensed some sort of 3d LCD display technology from Sharp. I guessed it was going to go with the DS, but it seems it might've actually been headed for this system.

  18. No glasses display? by dnixon112 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems like bullshit but perhaps if they incorporated this 3d display technology (as reported here) or at least have those screens on the market in a bundle with the console at launch there could be an outside chance Nintendo is this crazy. If those screens work well it could be an amazing experience, but many forces would be working against Nintendo even if they did adopt this 3D display technology. The commercialization of virtual interaction and 3d display? It certainly would fit the name of Revolution.

  19. One good reason by tprime · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can think of one really good reason why a major VISUAL change will not be what the "Revolution" is all about.

    How do you port titles from the xbox2 and ps3, which regarless of what MS and Sony say are fundamentally similar, to a system that will require a totally different setup. This especially is true for a console that has recently been trying to mend fences with developers. Nintendo would need Sony-like power over its developers to even think about trying something this drastic.

    On the other hand, 1st party titles would be impressive.

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