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SWG Players - Comment on the Combat Upgrade
Since last week my inbox and submissions bin has been overflowing with complaints and rants about the Combat Upgrade put into Star Wars Galaxies last week. Players are speaking out all over the internet, and the media is responding. If you've had first hand interactions with the combat upgrade (either positive or negative) please leave a comment below describing your experiences with the changes, and pass on word of this thread to all the players you can. Think of this as a call for interview questions, because I'm going to formulate queries as best I can and see what sort of information I can get from the folks that I know at Sony Online. Here's your chance to be heard, folks. Use it well.
One other thing. I've seen theories that say that this was rushed out because the new expansion pack is coming out soon and they're expecting an influx of new players when Episode 3 hits theaters. They didn't want to have new players ltearn the "old" combat system only to have it replaced two weeks later with the "new" combat system.
I have experienced nothing that would give the lie to that theory.
I'm not sure what else can be said. We tried being constructive and giving feedback about what we liked/disliked during beta. (actually, I'd call that phase alpha... beta is in live now). They just ignored it all or gave replies like "only a small number of folks dislike the changes" and "that is not in the scope of the CU".
/con result.
Anyway, here's a short list of what kills me:
Dumbed down, slow, poorly animated combat.
Sound effects replaced with terrible alternatives (if Ben Burtt were to hear what they put in for effects they would probably be reverted ASAP).
Removal of interesting and diverse combat moves.
Removal of a one-of-a-kind skills based system.
Combat is essentially down to ranged and melee.
No care at all in regards to items people have been using and enjoying for 2 years which they can no longer even equip.
Devastation of crafting, entertainer and doctor professions (probably the best crafting system of any mmorpg)
Dismal customer relations. Complete lack of concern for their player base.
Removing constructive criticism from the forums and banning those who posted it.
And the list goes on and on and on.
The following post from the forums is probably the best summary of what has happened. It is not rude, doesn't really flame anyone, and is dead on. I'm posting it since it may be deleted soon.
Written by "Handsnake"
I think that this should be here, as it bears on the subject of this forum. Please take the time to read all of the points as well as the conclusions. Keep responses civil, please.
I have tested the CU since it hit Beta and have been following the CU since publish 7. There are a number of unexpected problems with the implementation of the CU as it stands in Live (and how it developed in beta) that do not track with the available information given over the year since it was announced.
The way the current implementation of the CU is made up has several glaring variances from the previously released info - in that there was one central item that I have identified has caused the majority of the imbalances and problems encountered with the CU.
Putting a 'level' system on top of a skill based system.
This was not in the original CU documentation released on 03/31/05, and data from public statements of sources inside the CU 'sandbox' scheme (without violating NDA) have confirmed that it was never discussed with them to the degree it was implemented.
Herein I will list the worst issues reported about the CU and show that they are all tied directly to the 'level system' implementation that was added to the functional design of the CU.
1. Crafter Death - Crafters are 1 shotted by every aggro mob on every starter planet. The fragility of crafter characters at 'combat level' 1 is extreme. Surveying alone is impossible since spawns will appear under vehicles in motion and mobs will kill crafters in less than 2 seconds.
The ability to at least run away has been removed - this makes crafters unable to function at a basic level.
The 'level' system has a damage multiplier. You will see this in further points. This damage multiplier makes anything higher level than you equivalent to instant death. Five levels above you will always kill you. Again, this point will be repeated. Since crafters will not have any combat rating unless they become a hybrid and drop pure crafting, they will always take max damage.
Furthermore, every animal will use the damage multiplier against a base value. There is no such thing, therefore, as a 'safe' enemy for crafters.
This is the result of the 'level' system.
Before, each mob had different resists and damage ranges. They had a "threat" level, which was based on how high their offensive and defensive values were. Under the old system, that was the basis of the
This threat level has NO relationship to the current 'combat level' system, no matter what the devs claim in the HOC chat. The threat level was an EVALUA
I don't think the problem is that he disgrees with the majority. The problem is that his post basically just said it's awesome, without any reason why.
After reading all the other posts, I know why the new system is bad, but from reading his post I have no idea why he thinks it's good.
Apologies for replying to the first FP, (I'll post this as a regular reply as well, for double the downmods!) Although this is probably too introspectively geeky for the regular Slashdot community, I feel it best to explain what's been going on with the Europe-Chimaera server. (One of the most populated servers.) As SWG is very much a social game, I have found myself as both head of a guild and mayor of a Player City. This is a copy of a mail I sent to both my guildmates and citizens:
---
Greetings all!
Apologies for the impersonality of this mail, I'm sending it to both my guild and the citizens of Moonlight Valley. Need to cover a lot of people.
In short, Europe-Chimaera has fallen apart. The Combat Upgrade failed on our server, specifically the item conversion. So the entire server has been rolled back to an earlier backup and the conversion run again. And again. Rather than taking a backup of the database before running the conversion in the first place, they've instead rolled back to a substantially earlier version. From almost two weeks ago!
That's two weeks of gameplay lost, because some idiot didn't bother making a backup of the latest data. Even _I'M_ not that stupid, and I'm hardly the person to be speaking about data integrity. I don't believe there's been a disaster of this magnitude in the history of modern MMORPGs. (I'd like to be proven wrong here)
This has also occurred, to a lesser extent, on the Bloodfin server, although it's disheartening to learn that they were rolled back to a more recent backup than ourselves.
The upshot of this unprofessional behaviour is that all the pre-CU preparation we've done has been for naught. Resources; Money; XP; even new characters have been removed. For a game which eschews enjoyable content in favour of mindless grinding, this has been an unmitigated disaster. Current conservative estimates from this server alone put the number of accounts cancelled at over 400 - a substantial percentage of the population. This includes quite a few 'big names' as well, not just the whiners of the month. And it may include me as well...
Naturally, there have been posts on the SWG Forums related to this absolute shambles. And yes, a few from myself pointing out the shoddy way in which the customers (i.e. the company's main source of income) have been treated. Unsurprisingly enough, we've had postings deleted left right and centre. And several forum bannings, _myself included_. The overall attitude from me and many other recently banned folk is that it's a deplorable way to run a business, but that we're still sticking around. So it seems nearsighted to start antagonising the few members of the community who wish to remain.
Despite all the good wishes spewed forth at the start of the year by various interchangeable figureheads in the SoE hierarchy, this is a return to a draconian 'Us vs. Them' policy. Failing to realise that the community can only thrive with co-operation from both developer and consumer, these mass bannings only serve to drive another nail into the coffin.
So I'm left in the unenviable position of considering whether or not I should carry on feeding money into the SoE propaganda machine. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, and have hopefully garnered a reputation as being a reasonably well-balanced fair speaking member of the community. However, these have been trying circumstances for all of us. Undue pressure has been placed on all of us, with very little feedback or response from the developers. Steam has needed to be blown off by both sides. To have a Customer Service Representative treat the community's rightful indignation as a joke is a dangerous precedent.
Compensation has been offered, which is an insulting 4 x XP earned for a week. This is lip service at best, and an insult to the people who are still in the game. Given the current issues with earning experience, all this will do is return 4 XP for each creature killed, instead of 1. It is no compe
I can only hope the game survives this and that it doesn't become even less playable than it is now. Currently it certainly looks like it turned out worse than it was before even though it really needed the improvements that the CU seemed to promise.
Ultimately the responsibility does rest in the hands of SOE. They have proven time and again that the spirit of gaming is nowhere to be found within their company.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
"I was playing a Rifleman/Commando on test and the Improved Sniper Shot with a rocket launcher was freekin (sic) awesome fun."
What kind of sniper uses a rocket launcher? It completely blows the whole concept of 'sniper' out of the water.
"Most the complaints are from people who just don't understand or know how to take advantage of the new system."
That's the chief complaint of everyone I've ran across: They didn't need a new system. Everyone I've talked to liked how the old system worked. Their problem was that the classes/weaponry/etc were unbalanced. The basic mechanics and ideas of the system, they had no problem with.
So instead of working with what they had and making the old system work, they've instead tossed in a system ripped off from Everquest 2. People were paying for Star Wars Galaxies, not Everquest2 in space. That's the major complaint I'm hearing.
"If Common Sense was so common, it wouldn't be such a valued trait."
This post from SOE's forums was originally posted by "Handsnake".
/con result.
I believe it gives excellent insight into not just what is broken in the new version of Galaxies, but also why:
I think that this should be here, as it bears on the subject of this forum.
Please take the time to read all of the points as well as the conclusions. Keep responses civil, please.
I have tested the CU since it hit Beta and have been following the CU since publish 7.
There are a number of unexpected problems with the implementation of the CU as it stands in Live (and how it developed in beta) that do not track with the available information given over the year since it was announced.
The way the current implementation of the CU is made up has several glaring variances from the previously released info - in that there was one central item that I have identified has caused the majority of the imbalances and problems encountered with the CU.
Putting a 'level' system on top of a skill based system.
This was not in the original CU documentation released on 03/31/05, and data from public statements of sources inside the CU 'sandbox' scheme (without violating NDA) have confirmed that it was never discussed with them to the degree it was implemented.
Herein I will list the worst issues reported about the CU and show that they are all tied directly to the 'level system' implementation that was added to the functional design of the CU.
1. Crafter Death - Crafters are 1 shotted by every aggro mob on every starter planet. The fragility of crafter characters at 'combat level' 1 is extreme. Surveying alone is impossible since spawns will appear under vehicles in motion and mobs will kill crafters in less than 2 seconds.
The ability to at least run away has been removed - this makes crafters unable to function at a basic level.
The 'level' system has a damage multiplier. You will see this in further points. This damage multiplier makes anything higher level than you equivalent to instant death. Five levels above you will always kill you. Again, this point will be repeated.
Since crafters will not have any combat rating unless they become a hybrid and drop pure crafting, they will always take max damage.
Furthermore, every animal will use the damage multiplier against a base value. There is no such thing, therefore, as a 'safe' enemy for crafters.
This is the result of the 'level' system.
Before, each mob had different resists and damage ranges. They had a "threat" level, which was based on how high their offensive and defensive values were. Under the old system, that was the basis of the
This threat level has NO relationship to the current 'combat level' system, no matter what the devs claim in the HOC chat.
The threat level was an EVALUATION of an existing mob.
A 'combat level' is a MODIFICATION of a base value mob "angry bag" put into whatever 'skin' is appropriate, i.e, a level 34 dune lizard is the same as a level 34 peko peko.
The new COMBAT LEVEL defines the offensive and defensive values - not the other way around.
This is an important distinction, and is critical to understanding the conclusion about the combat level system and why it was added to the CU at such a late date.
2. XP gains and lack of same: A significant number of people are finding odd results from attacking mobs slightly below their level and higher - as in getting little to no XP. The response of the devs is to have people focus on just fighting even leveled mobs.
The real question is: Why was the XP variance put in the CU in the first place?
XP gains or rates of gains was NEVER addressed as a concern in the Combat Upgrade. It did not affect combat in any way, shape, or form in PVP, nor were there "problems" about the flavor of combat that were caused by XP being gained by anything you defeated.
It was never an issue at all.
However, in 'level' based systems, the paradigm is that LEVEL DETERMINES
I've been playing on the Tempest server for 2 years. I've had 2 accounts that whole time and I have unbelievably loved the game.
Sure, it had it's flaws and bugs but it's appeal was that it was unique. The combat, skill trees and crafting were different than anything out there.
Things need to be balanced though. Nobody denies that. What SOE has done is not balance. It is a complete replacement of the current system and it screws long time customers over. I would say that abotu 75% of everything I own in game is now garbage. That is alot of wasted time.
I don't know what happened at SOE that could get the CU to be changed like this but I think that some head of the company came along and said "WoW is the most popular MMO out there. Make our game like it NOW"
Anyone who has played WoW knows that it is not the combat that makes WoW fun. It is the Content and Polish of the game. 2 things that SWG lacked (and even more so now)
If you check out http://www.swgpetition.com/ you will see that 12 thousand people have signed it. Factoring in trolls and people with more than 1 account, I would guess that 15 thousand people have cancelled. That's alot of monthly income for a company.
It is just idiotic that SOE has treated their customers this way. We've been telling them for 2 years about what is wrong with the game and they have decided to just go in the other direction.
SOE even had an "alpha team" of players and correspondents that were setup to help them figure out what the biggest problems were and how to fix them. Basically a bunch of brainstorming between the Devs and Users. 2 months ago they shut that all down and went with the current CU. It was a major slap in the face to the correspondants that were trying to help. The Devs ask for all this input and then severed all ties. Most of the correspondants quit after that. And when I say most, I mean 90%.
I won't get into the CU too much but it is a completely new system. You get to "respec" your character and your items were automatically converted. The respec is full of bugs and takes a good pre-CU character and turns them into a gimp. Uber legendary items have been converted into garbage that a novice craftsman can make better versions of. I have never been big on loot and items but I know of ALOT of people that spent millions on items that are not worthless.
What else? Combat is now boring as hell. And bugs... oh, so many bugs.
Here is an analogy of what has happened. Say you bought a tire from a company. It's just a tire and does the job. You let the company know what can be better about the tire; you spend hours with them in meetings and on the phone explaining that maybe the tred needs to change a bit. 2 months later the tire company send you a square tire. What are you supposed to do with a square tire?
SOE, this is not how you treat customers. Idiots.
Interleaved revisionism? How exactly do you consider my post, which discussed in detail my actual experiences with the new system, among other things, to be devoid of substance? Disagree if you like, and I realize you are incapable of civility, but your disagreement doesn't render all other opinions invalid; neither does it erase others' words from existence. A reference to revisionism here is absurd; certainly not all disagreement is revisionism. Those words would at least stand as an impressive display of your vocabulary, if they had not appeared as part of the truly regrettable phrase "the biggest crap of interleaved revisionism."
You've chosen to reply to my post specifically, surely to display your poorly executed personal attacks, but you would be well advised to constrain the content of your reply to subject matter which is clearly related to the original post. In other words, how do weapon caps and certifications or crafting achievements relate directly to anything I said? I'm sure you had a good reason to mention them, but rather than demonstrating the relationship, you chose to simply rant maniacally. I very clearly discussed how functional the game appeared to me upon playing it. If you had specific grievances with my account of my experiences, you should have aired them, but it is beyond useless to simply say you don't understand how any sane player could say that the character level system doesn't ruin the game; such statement is a waste of your time in writing it and a waste of everyone else's time in reading it. Certainly my experience with the new system is limited, and I conceded as much in my original post, but the fact is, and I found it surprising myself, SWG is very functional with regard to my character at least.
You've cheated yourself in saying that it took you two years to achieve your padawans, as I don't think SWG itself is that old. Regardless, I understand it's taken you a long time, and if I had to guess, I'd say the reason for the delay was some combination of the attitude on display here, directed at the original system for unlocking, and your own ineptitude. I realize "[your] game was building communities," but that's a thin excuse. Really, it's not as though you had to sit in meetings with developers on a daily basis, or take calls from utilities, zoning boards, etc. Perhaps you had to respond to an unsually, even extraordinarily, high number of tells and emails, but given the simplicity of the old combat system, I cannot imagine that any amount of simultaneous conversations would interfere with grinding combat professions. Oh, and 12 out of 480 people remaining? Apparently your community-building game was as effective as your Jedi-unlocking game. Blame it on the CU, though, by all means.
Easily my favorite part of your post is when you chastise me for "running away because a 'revamp' affected me." What are you doing here then? I did not like what was done with SWG in publish 9, so I walked away. You don't like what's being done with this publish, so you shriek and weep, and attack those who disagree with you, and you find this behavior not only acceptable but actually superior. Does the hypocrisy not register at all with you? You have dared to presume to criticize me for a more stable variation of the same sort of reaction you were exhibiting even in typing out your insults. You are fighting for the game you love though, I'm sure, which gives your drama-queen antics a righteousness that my reaction lacked, I suppose. I must admit, I find this fascinating even taking into consideration the overtly juvenile nature of your post. I'm also curious as to whether you've told your 468 AWOL friends how you feel about them running away because a "revamp" affected them.
I also enjoy the overall self-destructiveness of your post. I almost regret mentioning it, on the slim chance that you will give these words any consideration whatsoever, but hostile, flame-strewn, essentially rambling posts like yours are rarely if ever taken seriously, even when they contai