SWG Players - Comment on the Combat Upgrade

Since last week my inbox and submissions bin has been overflowing with complaints and rants about the Combat Upgrade put into Star Wars Galaxies last week. Players are speaking out all over the internet, and the media is responding. If you've had first hand interactions with the combat upgrade (either positive or negative) please leave a comment below describing your experiences with the changes, and pass on word of this thread to all the players you can. Think of this as a call for interview questions, because I'm going to formulate queries as best I can and see what sort of information I can get from the folks that I know at Sony Online. Here's your chance to be heard, folks. Use it well.

Comments

It's just beta-testing.

[schild]

I'm far too lazy to actually post examples - So here's 3 pages on why. I will say that I'm surprised there's enough people who care that your mailbox is being "flooded" with complaints or anything at all.

SWG Upgrade Broken Again

[KeithGap]

I'm a rifleman in the game and while I have been subscribed to SWG since one of the later betas, I really haven't played since shortly after the release of Jump To Lightspeed. (I've been playing "World of Warcraft".)

I was excited to hear about the combat upgrade to SWG, because I thought it might finally make the game playable to me. Since the devs have made some of the changes in the last few months that I have been asking for since beta (PvE galactic civil war for one) I thought this change might make me want to play the game and maybe even buy the latest expansion.

Lo and behold, none of my Rifleman special moves appears to work. I was killed by a green (easy) creature my first time out. I went to the boards and discovered a bunch of posts about how, once again, as they have in the past, SOE is beta testing their "improvements" to the game in live.

I've decided I don't need to play this game anymore, and I'll be deleting it from my hard drive, finally. Goodbye SWG Beta. I've been paying for you for far too long.

Re:SWG Upgrade Broken Again

[Xaielao]

KiethGap your post is another of those who don't understand how the new combat system works. "none of my Rifleman special moves appears to work" Because professions have all new ones that are balanced and give each profession a 'role' to play. Trust me I was playing a Rifleman/Commando on test and the Improved Sniper Shot with a rocket launcher was freekin awesome fun. You can use skills between professions now :) It adds a lot of flavor and variety and lets you set up different combo's and stuff :) "I was killed by a green (easy) creature my first time out." Did you convert your armor? Were you wearing armor? Did you use any of the new specials? Did plan your attack? Unlike before combat isn't 'blam blam your dead' It takes time, lasts longer, takes planning. Even a green can give you a challenge if you aren't careful. Once you figure things out.. greens are cake. See this is what I'm talking about. Most the complaints are from people who just don't understand or know how to take advantage of the new system. You left the game obviously. Once things get smoothed over, bugs fixed, you may miss out on one of the best combat systems in the genre.

Re:SWG Upgrade Broken Again

[KeithGap]

Hmmm...well, here's the thing. I did actually try to do the "knee shot" ability to slow the creature I was fighting down. I saw the critter get +snared+, but it didn't slow down at all. I later checked the rifleman board, where it was advised that there was a bug where higher level critters weren't being slowed down any by the root abilities.

I also tried the sniper shot ability, which made a nice little yellow thermometer on my screen and did nothing. No shot. No damage. Nothing. Reading further on the rifleman boards, I discovered that there was a bug where this ability was only intermittently working.

I even gave them a second chance. Logged in today and tried again. The sniper shot never worked. The knee shot ability had no effect on the greens I was fighting. These abilities are bugged, and they just shouldn't be. Not on live. You can have these kinds of problems on test, but not on live.

I did try to play on test when the CU patch went live there. The seven or eight times I tried to play there, I was CTD'd. Never once could I stay in the game longer than about 5 minutes. I don't have this problem in live.

Pretty much every time they put in something I thought was going to kewl, it was broken. They rushed it in to keep me hanging around to wait to see if it was kewl when it fixed months down the road. Not weeks, mind you. Months. As in $14.95 per.

I'm not playing that game anymore. No more paid beta testing. I know MMOs are complex beasts, but even EQ and UO were better than SWG in terms of bugs.

All that said, I have to say I thought SWG was going to turn things around with the JTL expansion, I really did. I enjoyed that. And it kept me in the game for months, actually playing. But at that point I was ignoring the ground game. And the space game just wasn't quite enough for me.

Funny, you mention how combat is going to become slower after the CU. See, I hate that idea, too. This is Star Wars, and Star Wars really isn't about long, drawn out battles. (Well, except maybe the lightsaber fights...) I guess it just seems to me that Star Wars wasn't meant to be an MMO.

Re:SWG Upgrade Broken Again

[frayedends]

No, not everyone was "gung-ho". The initial reports were greeted with anticipation and skepticism, but by and whole people wanted to test them. The inital review of the docs didn't prepare even the most hardened veteran for what came next: The EQ-ification of SWG. Instead of a combat upgrade, we received a GAME REMAKE. Big difference. If they had left it to just the combat changes, without the level system, cooldown timers, stupid cartoon icons, magical particle effects, ruined sounds, broken con system, and destroyed professions, then we might have had something worthwhile. But no, after ditching the CU they _had_ been working on in sandbox testing with the sandbox testers, someone at SOE made some decision that the only way to do it was to change the game into Everquest 2 using Star Wars graphics. We have been screaming for a combat upgrade, and no one - none of the sandbox testers, and none of the profession correspondants - asked for, or even suggested 3/4 of the crap we got in this pathetic pile. I know, because i was a sandbox tester, and this isn't anything close to what we were working on. Not only that, the player correspondants were all against these changes once we actually saw what was done. Opposition was high, so high the armorsmith correspondant was FIRED over his objection to that SOE told everyone they were doing. They had the audacity to code the EP3 Wookiee expansion in the new system, effectively forcing this crap live. The objection of a LARGE portion of the players is this: Immersion is ruined, and if we wanted to play Everquest, we would be playing Everquest. But we're not, so don't screw with the game itself. Sure there are people that like it, you could release the worst thing in the world and somebody will stand up and say it's great. But by and large, those who call themselves supporters are only taking into account what CU fixes, without acknowleging what it destroys. Sure, it's nice to go out without buffs, it's nice to take the defense stacking out, and it's nice to remove DOT weapons....but is it worth what you got in the long run? All that was achieved by the CU could have been implemented in the old system, without destroying what was a very original and exciting system that differed from the run of the mill MMORPG's out there. Now it's Everquest with f*cking ewoks. My suggestion for prospective players: Don't waste your money - cause there isn't much left anymore. Not to mention the empty servers. www.swgpetition.com has almost 13,500 sigs now, and if you figure 2 accts per person, that's close to 27,000 subscriptions. I know a ton of people still playing because they bought 1yr or 6mos renewals a few months ago, and now they're stuck with it and SOE will not give refunds. Instead they delete all forum posts in opposition, ban players who protest in-game, and outright lie to players at events with developers, like the recent breakfast meeting that was held.

My thoughts...

[lasmith05]

When I played SWG, I got it just for jump to lightspeed. I wanted to be a pilot. But in the end I was disappointed by the gameplay I was hoping it would be similar to the x-wing/tie fighter games. The xp system was boring too, grinding away blowing up pirates. After blowing up 25 identical pirate ships in a row the game got old really fast. Content or different missions to keep it interesting was definetly needed. I can't believe I have to pay monthly on top of what the game and expansion cost just for the privelege to play. :(

sad

[theworldsucks]

to those who say it brought back enjoyment to the game:

a. how did removing the many melee animations and replacing them with generic one punch or one kick animations bring any enjoyment?

b. to those who say groups are important again: they were always important, you just didn't know how to make friends before.

c. How is turning hundreds of medications that took me months upon months and hours upon hours to gather and make into useless nothings make the game better? How is wasting all my hard work making YOU happy??

d. How is a new found joy in your gaming experience when they tunred mine and alot of people's very expensive weapons into fly swatters?

e. how is it joy when they took my bio-engineer pets which took me months to accumulate and perfect into soemthing that forced me to delete them?

Bottom line is, anyone who likes this game, obviously played it very little before CU. They see CU as a different experience and new game. But to people who actually play the game, the CU destroyed their characters and hard work in many many ways.

The CU was promised to be a fast paced arcade type action with a more Star Warsy feel. They failed, it is a terribly slow paced game with a fantasy feel now, adding all those gawdy particle effects and implementing a root and nuke system of combat from EQ.

They also made a huge mistake with the icons, love them or hate them you still now have to stare at them, and not what you are fighting so you can always know when to use the next special.

Star Wars galaxies went from unique to hidesouly boring and common with the CU.

They try to mimmick WOW and EQ, but they do it all wrong, Star Wars wasn't meant to be a lvl game, and it shows! Because if you are a master in one skill, novice in another, you will have a supremely boring and tedious task to raise the novice skill to master. Trying to fight level 65 mobs with a novice skill just is not cutting it.

I can go on and on here, I haven't even scratched the surface, suffice to say I canceled my accoutn which was started on day one in 2003. SOE are the single worse mmorpg company to exsist, and that is saying alot cause I really hate OSI. Not only for the CU, but for their treatment of players. They are straight up liars. They are censors. They are unreasonable. They are cracked out of their gourds.

I am hoping I witnes the first cancelation of a popular MMORPG. I really want to see it fail, to send a message that there is a line Game companies can cross. Sure they can abuse us all they want, they can nerf us all they want, but if you are going to change the game into one that is completely different, make sure it is good!

My favorite quote by them is "Stay positive through the chaos" lol! Translation = Ignore the outcry and hope it all turns out ok!

Another one " There are only 50 outspoken people who hate the CU" LOL LIARS.

Another" " Don't force your dislike of the game on soemone who is just trying to express their opinion and who like it. You just dislike change." (paraphrase). LOL, chnage rocks, WHEN IT IS GOOD. Also, I'd like to note, that only people with positive opinions are allowed to express them, those with negative are banned no matte rhow gracious they are about it. So SOE are hypocrits as well.

Thats it for now.

Not finished=not live worthy

[jpd75]

Here is a quote from Developer Blairs Blog, it was posted on the 16th of April 2005. Finally, it is worth repeating that even when Combat Upgrade goes "live" it is not finished - we will continue to refine and polish the experience for some months to come. So, please take comfort in the fact that we are listening and working hard to bring you a game that meets or exceeds your expectations - and we value your insights, passion for the game and your continued patronage. I am worried by this trend of game companites to push unfinished products on us to in essence beta test. I am sick of it and hope the SWG community sends a loud and clear message to SOE on this. The true problem with the CU was taking a unique skill based system that needed balancing and converting it to a level based system that is just as unbalanced. The developers just aren't listening to the testers, not listening to the community. It's gone from making a good game to making a quick buck. My final account is active until May 26th if I don't like what direction the game is moving by then I will not be renewing.

The Europe-Chimaera server is dying.

[darylp]

Apologies for replying to the first FP, (I'll post this as a regular reply as well, for double the downmods! Feel free to mark this as Redundant, but at least you've read it! :) )

Although this is probably too introspectively geeky for the regular Slashdot community, I feel it best to explain what's been going on with the Europe-Chimaera server. (One of the most populated servers.) As SWG is very much a social game, I have found myself as both head of a guild and mayor of a Player City. This is a copy of a mail I sent to both my guildmates and citizens:

---
Greetings all!

Apologies for the impersonality of this mail, I'm sending it to both my guild and the citizens of Moonlight Valley. Need to cover a lot of people.

In short, Europe-Chimaera has fallen apart. The Combat Upgrade failed on our server, specifically the item conversion. So the entire server has been rolled back to an earlier backup and the conversion run again. And again. Rather than taking a backup of the database before running the conversion in the first place, they've instead rolled back to a substantially earlier version. From almost two weeks ago!

That's two weeks of gameplay lost, because some idiot didn't bother making a backup of the latest data. Even _I'M_ not that stupid, and I'm hardly the person to be speaking about data integrity. I don't believe there's been a disaster of this magnitude in the history of modern MMORPGs. (I'd like to be proven wrong here)

This has also occurred, to a lesser extent, on the Bloodfin server, although it's disheartening to learn that they were rolled back to a more recent backup than ourselves.

The upshot of this unprofessional behaviour is that all the pre-CU preparation we've done has been for naught. Resources; Money; XP; even new characters have been removed. For a game which eschews enjoyable content in favour of mindless grinding, this has been an unmitigated disaster. Current conservative estimates from this server alone put the number of accounts cancelled at over 400 - a substantial percentage of the population. This includes quite a few 'big names' as well, not just the whiners of the month. And it may include me as well...

Naturally, there have been posts on the SWG Forums related to this absolute shambles. And yes, a few from myself pointing out the shoddy way in which the customers (i.e. the company's main source of income) have been treated. Unsurprisingly enough, we've had postings deleted left right and centre. And several forum bannings, _myself included_. The overall attitude from me and many other recently banned folk is that it's a deplorable way to run a business, but that we're still sticking around. So it seems nearsighted to start antagonising the few members of the community who wish to remain.

Despite all the good wishes spewed forth at the start of the year by various interchangeable figureheads in the SoE hierarchy, this is a return to a draconian 'Us vs. Them' policy. Failing to realise that the community can only thrive with co-operation from both developer and consumer, these mass bannings only serve to drive another nail into the coffin.

So I'm left in the unenviable position of considering whether or not I should carry on feeding money into the SoE propaganda machine. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, and have hopefully garnered a reputation as being a reasonably well-balanced fair speaking member of the community. However, these have been trying circumstances for all of us. Undue pressure has been placed on all of us, with very little feedback or response from the developers. Steam has needed to be blown off by both sides. To have a Customer Service Representative treat the community's rightful indignation as a joke is a dangerous precedent.

Compensation has been offered, which is an insulting 4 x XP earned for a week. This is lip service at best, and an insult to the people who are still in the game. Given the current issues with earning exp

Get a better game

[Falconoffury]

I suggest packing up and moving on to a company that cares more about the game than the money. I recommend Turbine. They are making D&D online, and Middle Earth Online. They have an Asheron's Call 2 expansion pack coming out on May 4. If you want to read about it, here's the homepage. http://ac2.turbinegames.com/ It also is having upgrades to some major game systems, but player testers have generally shown approval for the changes.