Pi: Less Random Than We Thought

Autoversicherung writes "Physicists including Purdue's Ephraim Fischbach have completed a study comparing the 'randomness' in pi to that produced by 30 software random-number generators and one chaos-generating physical machine. After conducting several tests, they have found that while sequences of digits from pi are indeed an acceptable source of randomness -- often an important factor in data encryption and in solving certain physics problems -- pi's digit string does not always produce randomness as effectively as manufactured generators do."

Comments

This just in:

[falzer]

PI is exactly three.

Re:This just in:

[g-san]

you must be from Indiana...

mmmmmmmm....

[TheDefenistrator]

Pie....oh, wait! Pi! Sorry :)

because it ain't random

[frovingslosh]

Gee, they found that pi wasn't random. Imagine that. Maybe someday we'll even be able to predict the value of pi.

Re:because it ain't random

[mobby_6kl]

That's only because they forgot to randomize first!

Re:because it ain't random

[Anonymous Coward]

" "The" value of pi is theoretically unknowable. An approximate value is calculable"

And drum roll please:

3 !

Re:because it ain't random

[Gloggy]

Yes, you're obviously right. And to prove your point, you can find my online poker game at a 10 digit sequence of numbers taken from the decimal expansion of Pi...

Re:because it ain't random

[Doc Ruby]

Yes, an economic argument for pi's value would choose 3 because, though wrong, it's at least cheap to learn.

Re:because it ain't random

[gtkuhn]

Three factorial? Six is way too high.

GOD HAS 16 FINGERS!

[Colin Smith]

Y'know I would have thought this fact would have made it into at least some religious text books.

There must be a bug in my implementation...

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

...of pi. It's not random at all, I always get 3.14159....

Re:There must be a bug in my implementation...

[LiquidCoooled]

I didn't think calculators needed Pentium cpus to run?

Did Sagan See This?

[NOLAChief]

Calculate it in base 11. Eventually you'll get a sequence of zeroes and ones that when arranged into a square raster form a circle.

Or so I'm told... :)

Re:Did Sagan See This?

[Bishop]

I hope pi is normal. One of my computers is calculating the digits of pi. I am hopeing to find the blue prints for an infinite inprobability drive.

Re:Did Sagan See This?

[KI0PX]

Calculate it in base pi. After one digit, you'll get an infinite sequence of zeroes.

10.000000......

Re:Did Sagan See This?

[SeanAhern]

But which end is first? The end closest to 3.14 or the other end? :-)

Re:Did Sagan See This?

[earthbound kid]

Be careful! Pi also contains an infinite number of blueprints that look like an infinite improbability drive, but actually explode and kill you.

Re:infinitely improbable

[Jozer99]

I wrote a Pi calculating program, that worked in base Pi. It didn't take long at all to compute pi, and it is a great source of random binary. The answer I got was "10". Now, simply take one of those digits 8 times, and you have a completely random byte.

Re:infinitely improbable

[Avenger337]

OMG!!! You mean Pi knows my SSN??? It must be a terrorist! We have to do something! (Maybe it knows where WMDs are, too)

Re:Why pi has no exact value

[OOGG_THE_CAVEMAN]

Value of pi not depend on coordinate system. pi simply transcendental number with certain value.

Polar coordinate can also use pi: circle of radius pi, arc length of arc subtending angle of pi radians, etc.

OOGG recommend you not change major to math. Otherwise, GPA likely much less than pi.

Re:Computing any digit of pi

[cperciva]

Not only that, but the five trillionth, forty trillionth, and the quadrillionth bits of Pi are all zero... I did all that work, and it all came to naught.

In other news .....

[ded_si_luap]

Physicists have completed a study comparing the randomness in Darl Mcbride's brainwaves to that produced by 30 typing rats. After conducting several tests, they have found that while sequences of digits from Darl are indeed an acceptable source for randomness, Darl's digit string does not always produce randomness as effectively as rats if the rats are using unixware.

and thus God disappears in a puff of logic

[TrekkieGod]

be careful what you prove next or zebra crossings might become dangerous.

In school

[gsasha]

I had a teacher who insisted that Pi is exactly 3.14, and that the radiation after nuclear explosion decays by a factor of 2 in exactly 5 hours.
Admittedly, he wasn't a math teacher though...

Re:I'm not too suprised

[Glonoinha]

Even quantum physics, although theoretically 'random', is generally predictable and reliably recreatable for a large T distribution over time.
If you want truly unpredictable, unrecreatable, random numbers - let my wife balance your checkbook.

Re:Wow: a spoon isn't a good fork!

[erktrek]

Unless of course it was migrated from the open source "stick" project.

Are you sure it's random?

[waynemcdougall]

Accounting Troll: "Over here we have our random number generator"

Number Generator Troll: "Nine Nine Nine Nine Nine Nine"

Dilbert: "Are you sure that's random?"

Accounting Troll: "That's the problem with randomness: you can never be sure"

Re:Are you sure it's random?

[Lars T.]

http://www.angio.net/pi/piquery

"The string 999999 was found at position 762 counting from the first digit after the decimal point. The 3. is not counted."

Re:Computing any digit of pi

[amehra]

Sorry to be picky; I'm just trying to be complete

Can't we have a decent talk without someone bringing in analysis?
Yikes!

Re:Al-Kashi, a cool mathematician

[cryptor3]

Problem solved, next problem. ... Here's to Al-Kashi, a sane man and a pragmatic!

Lazy bastard.

Re:Computing any digit of pi

[Rufus88]

Assuming by "fractional" you mean "rational", the ratio of two whole numbers

No, he means fractional. It's exactly equal to 1.0 in base Pi.