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The Unemployed Working on OSS Projects

Roger_Explosion writes "In Australia the unemployed have to fulfill a 'mutual obligation' requirement in order to receive welfare payments. What this means is that recipients of welfare payments have to be involved in some sort of activity that improves their chances of finding employment. Until now this has included various types of community service and training and education programs. Recently an organisation called CommunityCode has been established to allow recipients to fulfill this requirement by contributing to OSS projects."

34 of 524 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds like a great idea by Thornkin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It sure beats community service. I've long maintained that the way to learn to code is by coding. As someone who does hiring into programming positions, I know I would look highly at someone who spent his downtime working on OSS projects.

  2. Bloody OSS Bludgers by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bludgers is such a great word

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    1. Re:Bloody OSS Bludgers by Pyr05x · · Score: 5, Informative
      Don't mod this flamebait, because its not.

      "Bloody dole bludgers" is an Aussie slang phrase describing people on welfare ('the dole' here down under... not sure why we call it that) with no intention of trying to find a job.

      And I agree... Bludgers is one of the coolest words ever :)

    2. Re:Bloody OSS Bludgers by !the!bad!fish! · · Score: 5, Informative
      ... not sure why we call it that
      Because that is what the word means.
      --
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  3. This is heaps good by log2.0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If I were to be unemployed, this is exactly what I would do! Imagine having all this spare time (since you have no job) to work on any OSS project you want.

    Having said that, the dole (what we call welfare here) is pretty low. I think its about 100USD a week? (for all those US people ou there)

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  4. fine code by hool5400 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Stoners and dole bludgers, what wonderful code they will create!

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    1. Re:fine code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I bet they'll just write a bunch of slack ware.

  5. REDS! by Jukashi · · Score: 4, Funny

    What happens when the aussie economy does better with a legion of state sponsored oss programmers? Awesome!

    1. Re:REDS! by MIcroswipe · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe the Aussie companies will keep more programmers employed since everyone you lay off will go out and code for your oss competitor.

  6. I think that it's great as an option by mph_az · · Score: 5, Insightful

    however, I think that if you make it mandatory (no idea if tfa says either way) then I think this could create some very serious damage to any open source unlucky enough to get coerced 'help'.

    also, bear in mind that before you drool over the prospect of conscripts to do the grunt work in X.org or kde that any program worthwhile would probably allow them to choose which projects to help out in; and if they all decide that the best way to spend their time is to develop and perfect a tcl front end to cdrecord, that's their choice.

    Frankly, I'd prefer that OSS help remain completely voluntary. Getting half-hearted help is worse than getting no help at all.

    1. Re:I think that it's great as an option by awful · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It wouldn't be mandatory - the way "mutual obligation" is supposed to work is that Centrelink is supposed to try and find you a position that matches your interests and skills. Of course if you have no skills or interests you run the risk of being put to work picking up litter by the side of the road.

      In my brother's case, he was interested in audio-engineering. Centrelink placed him as a volunteer producer in a community radio station, and from there he got a job at a mastering studio.

      So in the case of coding for OSS projects - it would be voluntary. And even if someone did provide half-hearted help (i.e. bad code) there's no obligation on the part of the project to accept the code.

  7. Maybe I can help by mister_tim · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work in the Government Department that manages that Mutual Obligation policy and the main programmes around it. But I'm just an average public servant with an interest in IT - not a programmer or IT professional.

    Since they're ask for help from people who are experienced in dealing with our Department, maybe this is a way I can properly contribute to an OSS project for the first time.

  8. Unemployed coders in Australia??? by crusty_architect · · Score: 5, Informative

    I would be surprised to see many takers for this scheme here. The IT job market is on the way up in Australia, we actually have a coding skills shortage. If you are thinking of getting involved, please look for a job instead.

    1. Re:Unemployed coders in Australia??? by kieronb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, this could be a great way to get people other than coders involved in OSS.

      For example, all those projects where ther's little to no documentation because everyone involved is coding, not documenting? I'm sure there are lots of unemployed writers around.

      Or projects that need to market themselves better, maybe need a sleeker looking interface or website or logo or whatever? Tap into the starving artist workforce...

    2. Re:Unemployed coders in Australia??? by Tannii · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Where is this shortage?! I don't see it and I've looked.

      As a single mum who may end up having to full fill some of this mutual obligation stuff if Little Johnny has his way, this sounds like a dream come true. Upping my coding skills, contributing to the community and actually having hope that this will help you get a job .... Wait a minute! This can't be right, since when has any of these things been involved in mutual obligation for people on government payments? Mutual obligation tasks are menial, pointless and soul destroying. I expect that this program will be barred from being classed as such very soon.

  9. Well.. by BrianGa · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe they can hire some of our unemployed (pre-India) tech workers.

  10. Good idea but... by DeathAndTaxes · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think it's brilliant, but I don't think it'd be too long before some software consortium/lobby group/group of "concerned citizens" pulls out the whole "don't use government resources to promote the anti-competitive forces of OSS" argument. I'd bet you can expect to see legislation drafted within a year.

  11. I don't think John Howard will approve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mutual Obligation has always been about punishment, not improving work prospects - unless the government knows there will soon be a massive demand for fence painters and tree planters.

  12. centrelink workers by boron+boy · · Score: 4, Funny
    Great, I can imagine trying to explain this to the centrelink workers (the people to whom you have to prove your mutual obligation).

    Centrelink: so what jobs have you applied for in the last two weeks?

    You: None, but i've been working on CommunityCode.org doing OSS development.

    Centrelink: what?

    You: I've been doing free software work to get experience and stay a productive member of society.

    Centrelink: That's all well and good but I've got a job available at a chicken slaughterhouse I think you should apply for.

    Groan.

    1. Re:centrelink workers by mister_tim · · Score: 4, Informative

      I know that you're being funny, but in all seriousness the way to do it would probably be get it set up as a Work for the Dole project, by becoming a WftD sponsor. For it to satisfy requirements for Mutual Obligation in its own right - that would be more complex and it would pretty much need to be an official Government programme.

      The other way to get ahead would be to apply for the project to apply for resources (i.e. money) through the Employment Innovation Fund. If it was accepted there, it would be a quick way of getting some official Government recognition and money behind it. Overall, it would go a long way if it could show that it had a training component as well as just extra experience for people who already know how to code.

  13. The problem with this... by wcitech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with this idea is that you will get the lower possible quality workmanship from the majority of people who contribute. Anybody who's ever done mandatory community services (and didn't get paid) can vouch that their heart wasn't in it. This might sound "fun" to an unemployed geek, but the quality of work is going to be signficantly lower than, say, somebody who WANTS to write OSS.

  14. Disturbing. by Sheetrock · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This might seem like an odd perspective, but if people are put out of work by the availability of open source competition and are contributing to the problem simply to remain 'on the dole', doesn't this system effectively screw professional programmers?

    It's like all the negative of outsourcing without the positive of improving someone else's economy.

    --

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    1. Re:Disturbing. by martinX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given that Aussie programmers would be more likely to be out of work because of (a) PHB buying off-the-shelf software (usually made in US) or (b) having their job outsourced to another country, I'd say that the number put out of work by OSS would be less than one. At a guess.

      --
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    2. Re:Disturbing. by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This might seem like an odd perspective, but if people are put out of work by the availability of open source competition and are contributing to the problem simply to remain 'on the dole', doesn't this system effectively screw professional programmers?

      That's a pretty big "if"... Statements like this betray a basic concept that there's a total of NN software that needs to be developed, and that any amount satisfied by OSS is that much less bread to eat by developers

      However, demand for software neither fixed nor predetermined. How many jobs have been lost as a result of the free availability of communications by the Internet? See, the cost of international, interpersonal communication dropped through the floor with the Internet - what about all those lost jobs in telecommunications?

      I'm sure the Internet has cost SOME people their jobs, but how many new jobs popped up out of nowhere, doing web design, Intranet sites, database work, RPC and "middleware" based on this "free" Internet technology?

      OSS works much the same way. Rather than create a condition of scarcity, it instead creates an environment of plenty - plenty of ideas to explore that otherwise wouldn't due to prohibitive cost, many of which will turn out to be very profitable.

      Commonly addressed needs get commoditized by OSS software - Mail servers, databases, web servers, operating systems are all or are becoming commodities. The value, then, moves up the food chain a bit to providing services on top of these commodities.

      You don't make much money selling tomatoes, but you might do very well selling food cooked with tomatoes at a restaurant. Same ideas with OSS software.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  15. Microsoft Beware! by D_Lehman(at)ISPAN.or · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Bill Gates is pushing for more H1-B's, even with the US computer engineer unemployment rate higher than the national average (which is the real reason colleges are seeing fewer apply for CS degrees). Beware Bill and every other software company out there, if the US ever followed suit. They might just get paid by the state to code your competition.

    I wish I could fill out an application to be an (oxymoron) paid/unemployed OSS worker. :D

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  16. I for one like this idea by inflex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a small business developer, I would love this sort of thing.

    Quite often it's very hard to get people to do some work without forking out large amounts of money and you're not always sure about the end results (I've had some really terrible code handed in by contractors - worse than even mine).

    I have quite a handful of projects, all openSource which would definately gain from this sort of interaction.

    Paul.

  17. Seems like a plan by jonno317 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems that the comments thus far have been centered around the idea that the unemployed are being forced to work on OSS. I think it is more the idea that working on OSS is an acceptable form of community service and the like. I don't think that the arguments against the idea because of the lack of volunteering hold much water because of this. Those who choose to work on OSS to fulfill their community service responsibilities would be just as much volunteers as the rest of the OSS community. It's no different from an OSS person putting their development onto their resume. It's just using the volunteer work on the software for dual purpose.

  18. Does it have to be code? by Noviota · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Could the volunteers write documentation, design web sites, graphics etc. There is a lot more to an OSS Project than just the pure code!

    --


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    De Novo. Iota.
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  19. State sponsored OSS by jesterzog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What happens when the aussie economy does better with a legion of state sponsored oss programmers?

    I think it's worth considering that for any company that produces closed source commercial software, there will probably be many others that could benefit from and improve their productivity with good open source software, but can't necessarily afford to pay for the developers themselves, nor the commercial counterparts.

    Before jumpling to conclusions that it's state-sponsored competition, I think that this angle should be considered. The economy is made of more than just the commercial software production industry, just as the IT industry encompasses more than simply commercial software development.

    Is this worth state sponsorship? Perhaps, or perhaps not, or maybe it's at the very least a good place for interested people to be while they're between paid work, as the article suggests.

    Keep in mind that contributing to OSS while on a benefit doesn't release someone from their obligations of getting off the benefit, nor should it. It does give the appropriate people an activity in which they can maintain their skills whilst they're looking for other work. I think this organisation is mostly trying to formalise it, to make it a credible and understood activity for government agencies.

  20. Sysadmin and systems for the poor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I used to do something like this, in Australia. I did my "mutual obligation" (slave labour for dole payments) at Computer Bank Victoria.

    The goal of the project was to provide cheap (free) hardware and software to underprivledged people in Australia. We used Debian for single installs, and the KDE wm.

    It was a fantastic experience - I learnt all about the insides of computers and how to put them together, com ports, (seemingly) thousands of types of cards (video, audio, nics) and how to configure them, etc etc - all common knowledge ot people here, but you need to start somewhere...

    We started a project to give thin clients away to poorer groups (libraries/community groups/refugee action collectives or whatever) which we built from the ground up using common knowledge and the wonderful xserver. I think they have since expanded the project, but now use Mandrake/driva.

    A lot of the forced vollies didn't want to be there, but for those of us that did, it was great - I spent my first month testing printers, mice, speakers and doing the last check on systems going out the door...

    There are plenty of these things around, and it sure beat weeding public gardens....

    1. Re:Sysadmin and systems for the poor by Kylie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      :)

      We still use Debian and run 'work for the dole' projects. We can also help people looking to do community work.

      See http://vic.computerbank.org.au/

  21. Code by Phidoux · · Score: 4, Funny

    if (unemployed) {
    dole = dole * 2;
    }
    printPayslip();

  22. When they say 'coding' by Trogre · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hope they also include options for writing documentation and proof-reading.

    That is an area that is often lacking in OSS projects.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  23. It helps to keep your sanity by PenguinBoyDave · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was unemployed, working on OSS projects gave me a purpose. After spending hours a day for nine months and slipping into depression, OSS gave me a new purpose, and a hope. I was keeping my skills sharp. I was contributing to the community. I had a reason to get up in the morning. OSS kept me sane when I thought I was going to go nuts.

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