Slashdot Mirror


FCC Broadcast Flag Struck Down

An anonymous reader writes "CNet is reporting that the courts have struck down the FCC's broadcast flag requirement! 'In a stunning victory for hardware makers and television buffs, a federal appeals court has tossed out government rules that would have outlawed many digital TV receivers and tuner cards starting July 1.'" The EFF has details on the flag, the official ruling is online for examination, and commentary is available from BoingBoing and Ars Technica.

40 of 416 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah! by mrseigen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's about time the courts are on our side for something like this. Now if they can just do something about all the other idiots wanting DRM everywhere...

  2. Awesome! by stlhawkeye · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is great news. I don't doubt that illegal distribution of copyrighted materials is a problem that costs content-owners money, but this flag is not the solution. It's going to mostly penalize and restrict the rights of legitimate and honest viewers who don't do anything criminal with their recordings, they just re-watch them.

    The onus is on the industry to find a solution within technology and capitalism, not within politics and law.

    --
    "I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
    1. Re:Awesome! by drunkennewfiemidget · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...It's going to mostly penalize and restrict the rights of legitimate and honest viewers ...

      But hasn't that always been the issue with such nonsense laws?

      • They make it illegal to redistribute DeCSS code so people can't copy DVDs, when most people being hurt by it are the opensource people who just want to watch their damned DVDs in Linux.
      • They've suggested charging small amounts of money per e-mail to curb spammers, when the people most hurt by it will be those of us who e-mail a lot for legitimate, useful reasons.
      • They run those obnoxious commercials before movies at the theatres telling us why pirating is bad, and wasting our time, despite the people guilty of these acts are the ones at home watching the movies on their computers, not the ones who paid $11 so they can sit through the movie.

      One bad apple spoils the bunch.
      Either that, or the people passing these laws desperately need to give their heads a shake.

      At last, a win for you poor Americans.

  3. Won this battle but not the war by flanksteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So it's nice that this lost, but it lost because the court said the FCC has no jurisdiction. This wasn't a victory for fair use, nor is it the end of the discussion. The MPAA will return to hammering Congress to either make the rule itself or grant the FCC the authority to do so (which the article clearly states at the end). This just gives us more time to get the word out about why the flag is a bad idea.

    1. Re:Won this battle but not the war by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Good to see skepticism, but you missed what is significant here.

      The FCC has been extending its power significantly, with the broadcast flag being just a small piece of that. The courts telling the FCC that they do not have this power is huge. It eliminates the possibility of the FCC taking away citizen's rights without the democratic process being involved. At least Congress persons are answerable to their constituents. The FCC is not. (This is the whole problem with Congress creating agencies. It's a way to extend government power without making it answerable to the other branches.)

      Now is the time to start sending positive letters to justices and congress persons to prevent Congress from trying to enact the broadcast flag themselves.

    2. Re:Won this battle but not the war by MobyDisk · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I agree with all of your points. But you seem to think that I said all regulatory agencies are bad, and the someone else should do their job. I did not. Let me make that clearer by answering your question:

      Q: Supposing you were in charge, where would you place regulatory authority for wire/opticable-less communication and EM emmisions?

      A: I would put that in the FCC.

      If that is all the FCC did, I would be happy. The problem has nothing to do with the FCC performing simple regulatory actions. The problem is when the FCC thinks it has the power of Congress.

  4. Temporary until Congress acts by hirschma · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since the entire American government is owned by corporate interests, it'll take about 5 minutes for this to get passed by Congress.

    I'd hope that the consumer electronics lobby is stronger than the MPAA, but I fear it isn't so.

    jh

    1. Re:Temporary until Congress acts by SacredNaCl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The difference is, now everyone is mobilized & knows about it. Which is far more profitable for congressmen as each of the lobbyist can contribute money under the dual threats of "protect my business model" and "protect my business model" from both sides. Works out well if you are a senator.

      The fact that this might piss off the handful of voters who actually pay attention probably doesn't even enter into the equasion for most of them, sad to say.

      I just watched my own state legislature give away the farm to SBC under a similar model. He who paid the most won, only 3 votes against. It's not like the bribes aren't mostly out in the open, it's just no one pays enough attention for it to matter to them.

      --
      Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
    2. Re:Temporary until Congress acts by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No Congressperson wants to be on record as voting to take away TV.

      That's why they'll call it the Protection of Open and Free Television Act or some other Orwellian name and attach it to some other feel-good or must-pass legislation.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:Temporary until Congress acts by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How were the democrats the party of big business? Weren't they the party of labor unions?

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    4. Re:Temporary until Congress acts by bnenning · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah same here. The neo-republican party is about as republican as new coke is coke. Maybe it's time America went to a 3 party system of Democrats, Republicans and Ex-Republicans...

      I'm in. A party that *actually* stands for limited government and individual freedom and is less insane than the LP could do quite well.

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
    5. Re:Temporary until Congress acts by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You do realize that if all the ex-Republicans would just join the Libertarian party instead of calling them "insane" they would dilute the extremists and make the whole party more moderate, right?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  5. It's not over yet by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And it never will be until the slimeballs behind this (movie industry) get what they want. They are willing to pay more and wield more influence than the electronics makers. Watch for some legislation to be bought soon.

    1. Re:It's not over yet by illumin8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And it never will be until the slimeballs behind this (movie industry) get what they want. They are willing to pay more and wield more influence than the electronics makers. Watch for some legislation to be bought soon.

      Let's be a little bit realistic about this. The movie industry brings in ~$9 billion a year in revenue. The consumer electronics industry brings in over $100 billion in revenue a year. For now, the consumer electronics industry has been like a sleeping giant. I think what happened here is that the sleeping giant has finally been awakened.

      I expect the MPAA to be soundly bitch-slapped by higher-paid lobbyists and PR firms that work for the consumer electronics industry any minute now.

      When it comes down to it, these battles are simply all about money. Remember the golden rule: Whoever has the most gold, makes the rules.

      The consumer electronics industry is not going to let the MPAA dictate how they make products.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
  6. Death to Television by jamienk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    p2p distribution of video over the Internet is the future. The airwaves are being wasted on obsolete technology. We should figure out what the TV spectrum would best be used for (wireless Internet? Cell Phones?) and then dismantle the whole shebang. Would this exceed the FCC's authority? Maybe. But it would be smart. The "broadcast flag" was dumb.

    1. Re:Death to Television by Dizzle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bad idea. That requires everyone to have the internet, even if it's not available in your area. Imagine trying to download shows over phone line instead of just over the air TV? Sounds a little farfetched. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather p2p the shows ANY day (no commercials, watch it when i want, etc) but there is a role for over the air TV.

      --
      -Dizzle
      "I most likely AM so interested in myself."
    2. Re:Death to Television by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bad idea. That requires everyone to have the internet

      So make sure everyone who wants high speed internet access can get it. This will not only allow us to free up spectrum, but will have many other ancillary benefits. While it smacks of media hype, the "digital divide" is a real problem, and maybe we need a good public works program.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  7. Makes no difference by overshoot · · Score: 2, Insightful
    By now, all of the designs have been changed and all of the product in the pipeline has been switched over. Even if the manufacturers are legally allowed to do so, they won't take the expense of switching back.

    What's more, they won't take the risk. Now that the BC has become a "standard" feature, building anything without it is almost certain to be attacked by the MPAA under the DMCA.

    If you have a BC-free tuner card, treasure it. They ain't making no more, ever again.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:Makes no difference by jbstafford · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a massive amount of interest in Broadcast Flag-free equipment. The market loves a vacuum, so even if we don't see equipment from major producers, somebody will manufacture or continue to manufacture this type of equipment. It just may be an outfit like Elgato rather than a Motorola.

    2. Re:Makes no difference by endeitzslash · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is utter baloney. There are "region-free" DVD players that are very popular. Sony never got anywhere with its more restrictive mp3 players.

      I think there will always be a market for the less restrictive technology. Especially when you consider that a large segement of HDTV and PVR users are more tech-savvy than the typical consumer.

      Also, how is ignoring the flag a violation of the DMCA? Seems like a stretch to me.

  8. Unfortunately, this will not stand by keraneuology · · Score: 3, Insightful
    What are the odds that Congress which is openly in bed with RIAA and MPAA will wait longer than a few months to tack on a rider to some wildly popular (or arcane and unreadable) piece of legislation allowing this sort of restriction to proceed as planned?

    So long as the following tweaks to the system are not implemented Congress will be able to ignore the wishes of the people and grant any and all favors to their lobbyists.

    No representative or senator should ever be allowed to vote on any piece of legislation which they personally have not read

    Any vote on anything that involves de facto laws, rules, regulations or monetary impact of any kind must be by roll call vote

    The name of the legislator who introduced or modified each line of text in each and every bill must be fully disclosed

    The 17th amendment must be repealed

    --
    If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
  9. Yes and No. by Qwerpafw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The courts struck down the broadcast flag because the FCC was getting too big for their britches. They got all up in there, and the Judge was like "no you didn't." Judges do that a lot--watch Judge Mathis to see what I mean.

    The courts didn't say that the broadcast flag was illegal because it interfered with fair use rights. While the effects of this ruling are to encourage consumer rights, that hardly seems to be the intent of the judgement. The fact is, the FCC was never supposed to make these kinds of rules--and someone finally called their bluff.

    1. Re:Yes and No. by badasscat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The courts didn't say that the broadcast flag was illegal because it interfered with fair use rights.

      And this is important because what the court in essence did was throw the issue back to Congress - where copyright issues constitutionally belong. If you think the broadcast flag is dead, think again - all the court said was "this is unenforceable as an FCC rule - only Congress can make such a rule."

      So you can bet the MPAA is on the horn right about now to every senator and representative they've ever donated money to trying to call in a favor. And you can bet they'll get that favor, probably sooner rather than later. There are still almost two months before that July 1 deadline - it is not just possible, but probable that the broadcast flag will still take effect on that date, this time enacted by congress and signed into law by Bush himself.

    2. Re:Yes and No. by bnenning · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you can bet the MPAA is on the horn right about now to every senator and representative they've ever donated money to trying to call in a favor. And you can bet they'll get that favor, probably sooner rather than later.

      I'm not so sure about that. Certainly we should continue to be vigilant, but FCC commissioners don't have to explain to voters why they made it illegal to record Survivor.

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
    3. Re:Yes and No. by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have generally been satisfied that my congressmen care about what the constituents think all the time, even when they are in safe seats. I can remember when Carl Snow (as a Democrat) became Rep in the most republican state in the Union (Utah) because people didn't really much like the Republican candidate.

      The larger problem is that most people don't *care* about the broadcast flag. So it is up to Congress to do what they think is best. This is the way it is with most issues in Congress. Therefore if COngress only hears from the MPAA, guess whose side they will take? We must do our best to tell our congressmen *why* the broadcast flag is a problem. Not just for us as individuals but for the country as a whole (and the economy).

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  10. Re:To all those "activist judges" out there by lax-goalie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ermmm, these judges actually took a "strict constructionist" approach. Congress didn't give the Executive Branch the authority to regulate, so the Court properly slapped the FCC down.

    Ain't nothin' "activist" about this.

  11. Corporations can't vote by notcreative · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can be unhappy with the way your fellow citizens vote, but corporations aren't electing these people into Congress. Other people in your community are. If you don't like that, don't sit on your beanbag and complain about how corporations are destroying the country. Go out and tell people why they should vote the way that you want them to. Money is just a megaphone. If you're spouting garbage, it will just make the garbage stinkier.

    It's funny how the things that are beyond our control are the things that we'd otherwise have to get off our buns and do something about.

  12. this gives us more opportunity by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    as citizens. We have more power with congress then the FCC.

    AS always write, fax, email. Maintaining freedom takes regular work, few hours per week.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  13. warm and fuzzy ... by for_usenet · · Score: 2, Insightful


    That's how I feel after donating to the EEF last year and this happening now. Looks like I'll be sending them another cheque this year ;-)

    Good work folks! Now, let's make sure this never sees the light of day in any of the law-making branches of the legislature!

  14. Hiding the goose that lays the golden egg by crovira · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In effect the xxAAs are trying to rope the FCC into making all broadcasting a synchonous pay-for-view service without any recourse for pay-per-view-later (that would kill ALL recording, nevermind TIVO)

    They are essentially trying to rewind the calendar to before they xxAAs lost the 'fair use' trials against those pesky player pianos. (And radio and TV and restaurant juke boxes and sheet music.)

    They are against anything that makes a noise and they aren't getting paid. And fair use doesn't enter into their vocabulaty.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  15. Re:These Activist Judges by KenSeymour · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just imagine the chaos that would result if television/radio transmissions were regulated at the state level.

    Maybe you would send one delegate from each state to the ITU.

    Or better yet, let each individual decide on what frequencies and how much power they will transmit.

    --
    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
  16. Re:These Activist Judges by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    . . .it doesn't need constitutional authority.

    Every legal authority needs constitutional authority. It is the law of the land and the only source of federal authority.

    Agencies created by Congress to have legal authority by beaureaucratic code writing are Congress's attempt to bypass those parts of the Constitution that say "Congress shall pass no law. . ."

    The courts are saying that Congress doesn't have the authority to do that. If they wish federal law, they need to pass it through Congress. Which is both, good, proper and about time.

    KFG

  17. Re:These Activist Judges by rjh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Check the United States Constitution, wherein all executive power is vested in the President. Like it or not, all executive power is vested in the Oval Office. If the president wasn't ultimately responsible for the actions of the FCC, the FCC would have no authority whatsoever.

    You could just as easily say that the powers of the United States Treasury are delegated to it by the Treasury Act. That doesn't mean the Secret Service is a Congressional authority.

  18. But seriously folks by technoCon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Elected legislators like to avoid responsibility for hard decisions.

    In addition to the broadcast flag, politicians would like to avoid responsibility for voting for or against abortion or gay marriage, so they hide in the weeds and let unelected judges or bureaucrats take the heat.

    Laws are often written in a vague enough way that responsibility for unpopular consequences can be dumped onto the bureaucrasy and sorted out by the judiciary.

    If elected officials abdicate their responsibility, a tyranny of the judiciary or of the bureaucrasy is possible.

    The bad thing about this broadcast flag matter is that neither the villains in the bureaucrasy nor the heroes in the judiciary were elected officials directly accountable to the electorate.

  19. Re:Sliding my donation over to the EFF by Little+Pink+Bunny · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I appreciate the fact that we now have enough powerful rights organizations that you can reasonably hand-select the ones that defend the rights most important to you. The EFF covers the free speech cases that I support, and the NRA fights for the amendment that the ACLU hasn't heard of. I'm a proud member of both, and am reasonably sure that neither will take positions that I personally oppose.

    I suppose the ACLU had its place back in the day, but I much prefer the Unix-style "each tool does one thing" approach of the EFF and NRA.

    --
    I am a
  20. Re:These Activist Judges by quarkscat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh, yeah. Right!

    Just like the FDA is an independent agency. The last time I checked, it was the Executive Branch that selected appointees to the management positions. And considering the current "rubber stamp" state of the Congress, the only truly "independent" division of government is the Judicial Branch, and that is quickly eroding into yet another "political plum" for the current regime in power.

    At the current rate of Executive Branch dominance over all branches of the US government, by the time 2008 rolls around, national elections could get cancelled (like the FEC's "trial balloon" in 2004), and the USA will have King George I, and a very British looking (albeit more subserviant) Parliment to contend with.

  21. Re:Loss for words by mobby_6kl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Buy more. Now that everybody else is selling their cards, buy more, cheaper. Next week, when the Congress passes a similar law, sell!

    Let me sum this up in four easy, complete, steps:

    1) Buy low
    2) Congress passes law
    3) Sell high
    4) Profit!

  22. Bah... by Krater76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm tired of all the /.'ers who think this is insignificant. The fact is that these judges said that this would infringe on a consumers ability to time-shift HDTV.

    Don't be stupid and talk about DRM on DVDs because this isn't the same. I can watch a DVD over and over but with this flag I wouldn't be able to record 'Lost' and watch it later.

    You may think that the average american, namely my father who was born in 1945 (yes, he's 59), wouldn't care about copying a DVD and you're right - he doesn't. But he sure as hell won't let anyone mess with his time-shifting ability, via TiVo (which he doesn't have but wants) or a VCR.

    And when HDTV drops a little more he will get it and if he can't control it 100% like he wants he'll sick the AARP on them. And old people actually write their congressmen and complain until things get done.

    --
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  23. Joe Wal-mart by Kaenneth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I believe the Broadcast flag would have killed HDTV adoption in the US; If my brother-in-law couldn't record his NASCAR to watch after work, what good would HDTV do him?

    HDTV equipment couldn't be made in the US for export, because no other country would want broadcast flag equipped products, ensuring the ongoing death of manufacturing in America.

    It would raise the cost of, and decrease the desirability of better HDTV, increasing the time until we can turn off the old signals.

    The airwaves belong to the Public, and private interests should not be allowed to run rampant over the limited useful spectrum, all of the FCC's decisions should have a statement explaining exactly how it is expected to benifit the public, with respect to the spectrum used; just as with the EPA and Environmental Impact statements.

    private encrypted tranmissions have a place (cell phones, military, wireless networking), and it other areas a balance can be struck (TV networks using satillites to send shows to affiliates should be protected) but government angencies should not profit from, or pander to business interests. (except from taxing their profits)

  24. I'm a liberal, and I find the Dems insane by hirschma · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why?

    * They're as owned by special interests as the Republicans. The bankruptacy bill? Everyone voted for it, even very liberal, Hero Of The People Democrats. I mean, SCHUMER voted for that turd, and dude really wants to be a liberal working-class savior. That's insane behavior.

    * They are becoming Republican Lite. Look at Hillary. She's starting to get awful cozy with the right-to-lifers. The goal of the Dems is to actually become ok with the Fundies. And that is totally insane, because it can never happen.

    They need to grow a spine, start leading, and actually stand up for something. Sure, they may take some hits for a while, but the tide will turn. Kerry lost because he was a flip-flopper, much as I hated the Republicans using the stupid term.

    I mean, isn't a defintion of insanity to perform the same acts and behavior over and over again, and believe that there will be a new outcome?

    jh