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How to Leave a Job on Good Terms?

An anonymous reader writes "I've been working for a small development company for 6 or 7 years. My boss has always been a bit nuts but overall it hasn't been a bad experience. I recently accepted a great job offer for a technology position in a different industry. I gave my boss my notice this week, and while he initially was understanding, he has since starting making accusations of conspiracy, deceit, and has otherwise attempted to make me look bad in front of employees and long-time clients. (who, thankfully, also think he is nuts) I don't like to burn bridges, but I'm pretty sure he's already burned it to the ground, even threatening to withhold my final paycheck if I don't find a replacement before I leave. Is it worth sticking out the few weeks I already told him I worked, or should I just cut my losses and leave early?"

29 of 755 comments (clear)

  1. Be responsible for yourself... by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...he has since starting making accusations of conspiracy, deceit, and has otherwise attempted to make me look bad in front of employees and long-time clients...

    If you're being honest with yourself and the /. community as a whole, and if you didn't do anything to deserve the flamewar he is waging against you, then I have this to say about your soon-to-be-former boss: He's an idiot. My advice: Simply be respectful. Don't say anything bad about the boss or the job. If anyone asks (even in some sort of exit interview), tell them it was a good job and everything was fine, but you're leaving to make the next step in your career plans. Period. Believe me, in the future, when the topic comes up, people will know who was the wacky one and who was wise.

    At our company, we don't have the best possible wages and benefits. What we have is good, but there are certainly other companies out there that offer something better. Every so often, employees find a "better" job and leave. I've heard what the "big boss" here says when someone gives him notice. He usually bids them farewell, invites them to come back and visit sometime, and generally gives them some advice. For example, if an employee is known around here for something detrimental, the boss will usually remind him (not to rub it in, but rather to help him out) to pay particular attention to that aspect of his work, so he will start the new job on a fresh page.

    In 20 years, we only had one incident. A secretary, who was a complete wacko, got fired. She took customer lists and God only knows what other information with her, and she actually called all the customers and trashed us. She made threats, she did all kinds of stuff... Our boss, being the wise and learned man that he is, told us all not to worry about it. The ending of the story: Customers called and asked what was going on. We explained that we had fired this secretary. They all said things to the effect that, "You're better off without her." People are not stupid, and they understand who's on the up and up...

  2. It's only going to get worse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you don't need references, bail. If you need references but can get them from other people, bail. Basically, it's not going to get any better.

    A friend of mine went through something similar. A client who didn't understand the technology my friend was demonstrating freaked out when my friend said some code he wrote tricked the system into behaving properly. It was a way to explain a coding hack, but it turned out to be a poor choice of words. The idiotic client was so terrified she called and ranted to his boss, who instead of siding with his employee, gave him hell. Within a few days, the boss started questioning his abilities and treating him poorly, accusing him of various things, all of a sudden oblivious to the years of outstanding work he had done. It came to the point where my friend couldn't take it anymore and decided to leave. A few days before he was supposed to resign, a secretary overheard a conversation he was having with coworkers about why he was leaving. The secretary only overheard bits and pieces, and decided to tell his boss that he was talking behind his coworkers' backs. He got fired on the spot, after some three years of hard work, because of hearsay, unfounded accusations, uninformed clients, and an unstable vengeful manager.

    Simply put, you do not want to be around a boss that bears grudges and will abuse his position to express his displeasure. It's not worth it.

  3. Re:Get a Firearm by lheal · · Score: 4, Interesting
    N O !

    I'm a 2nd Amendment guy. I believe in the right to keep and bear arms, and I believe that the citizenry should be armed to the teeth and dangerous.

    But it's just plain stupid to bring one to work under these circumstances. It says "disgruntled employee about to go postal", and would give the nutty boss an excuse to have you arrested. You don't want that rep at all.

    I'd bring a lawyer instead, or at least have a lawyer make a phone call. Asking you to provide a replacement before you receive a final paycheck is defrauding you of your pay.

    --
    Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
  4. Re:Withholding pay by Apotsy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Exactly. You wouldn't believe how many stories along these lines I've heard from people. The victims are usually young, naive, and working retail. In nearly every case, the person does nothing because they don't know their rights. They just bitch about it to their friends.

    In most cases, merely threatening to call the labor board will scare an employer into complying with the law. If it doesn't, then proceed with the actual call to the labor board, and for good measure call an employment attorney as well. And don't whine that you can't afford one -- you can always find one who will consult with you for FREE. Just call the local bar association for a referral. (And no, a free consultation does not mean the lawyer is shady/crappy; it's a standard part of their services.)

    It's a LOT harder for employers to screw you over when you know your rights AND take steps to see that they are enforced.

  5. I do not think it means what you think it means by Safety+Cap · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A contract cannot override the law.

    --
    Yeah, right.
  6. no for another reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you find a replacement you'll be responsible for that replacement going forward into the future. You need to make a clean break. Your boss needs to find someone else to form a relationship with, what's he going to do if anything goes wrong with the new person, track you down and get you to solve that problem too? No way, if this new person were to have problems are you going to find yourself in court? What if there's a leak of company info, you want to be on the suspect list because your 'plant' is still working there? Forget it.

  7. Re:Easy Answer by kabdib · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I once left a company that tried to reduce my final check by "negative sick hours" or something like that. Legally they were allowed to do this. However...

    I politely pointed out that I had gotten sick as a direct result of working 80+ hour weeks for them, that they had gotten a good deal out of it, and that reducing my check was unacceptable. I was firm, but very polite.

    I waited in the lobby for 30 minutes and they came back with a check for the full amount.

    If they hadn't . . . well, I had no real plans. Probably would have told all the employees that I knew "socially" there, and then just left it alone.

    [Earlier the previous day, the CEO of the company pulled me off to a lunch meeting where he started bawling and tried to get me to stay. A good place to be out of; their "technology" could have been replaced by 1,000 lines of Perl]

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is insufficiently documented.
  8. Been there (almost) by ashridah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had the unfortunate position of being forced to call in the Victorian state level (Australia, btw) employee relations resolution mob when I was leaving a company a few years ago.

    My employer had withheld 4 weeks of pay, even though I was there AND WORKING for the entire month(!) of notice I gave (a month sounds crazy, never signing a contract like that again). They tried to claim they couldn't afford to pay me. i knew that was crap, although they had a history of not paying debtors, they did have assests they could sell, to people who were actually willing to buy them.

    Fortunately, in my case, using the state-based resolution system means I didn't have to pay anyone anything to get my money. After my ex-employer stuffed them around for 6 months, they finally drove over, had a chat, quietly offered to write them up for fines, and I got the cheque in the mail.

    It was a nice christmas present when it came. :)

    Now, all this said, particularly in the initial article poster's situation, it won't hurt him to stick it out. That gives him a much stronger position if he *DOES* get shafted.

    Also, i'd be inclined to not worry about doing work outside the job description during that time. They can't hold you to that, particularly if you've got other duties to attend to that you DO have to do.

    That said, DO NOT under any circumstances, badmouth your previous employer in any way at any time. That's just asking for trouble, and can come around and bite you in the butt really quick.

    ashridah

  9. Re:Hello Mcfly, Suck it up! by sevebal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The craziest situation I have ever been in was when I was laid off from a small company due to horrible financial mis-management. I filed for unemployment (which ends up raising the employers premium) and next thing the guy was offering me a short-term contract to train my replacement which he hadn't started looking for yet. When I told him to screw off he contacted the unemployment people and told them I had refused a job offer which in turn, stopped my checks. I got a lawyer and went to a hearing which I won. He then rewords the contract to get rid of one of the reasons it was invalid, sends it to me, I refuse and again contacts the employment commission which stops my check. Another hearing, and another victory for me. Soon after I had an offer.

  10. Replacement Killers by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Won't someone think of the replacement? Just think of the bad karma you'd receive for fixing the replacement up for a term with psycho-boss! Imagine if the replacement was actually someone you knew or even a friend? Come to think of it, why can't they find at least a semi-suitable replacement in today's job market?

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  11. Re:My two cents... by saltydogdesign · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Speaking from a point of view of someone who spent years working with people in therapy, it sounds like this person has some issues that go deeper than the anger and frustration most people deal with.

    It's called "boss-itis." I think all bosses are required to suffer from metal ailments.

    I used to work at a magazine. Our editor in chief would call the entire staff into a conference room and harangue us for up to four hours because he found a typo in an article (before it was printed). One typo could cause him to say that we were "worthless," "useless," "unprofessional," "shit," and many other such fine terms.

    Meanwhile, our work would not be getting finished, leaving us more pressed for time and more likely to make mistakes.

    The guy was a lunatic, and it extended beyond work. When he first met my wife, I introduced her and said she was an opera singer (she is). The first words out of his mouth were, "I don't really like music with women's voices." What an ass.

    --
    // This is not a sig.
  12. Re:I think he needs it on the resume... by ComputerSlicer23 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Past employers cannot legally give any information beyond "This person worked here from xx to xx".

    You are going to have to cite a statue for that one. I'm incredibly dubious of the claim that I'd be in violation of the law to say more then "this person worked here". I'm unaware of any legal princepal of "Employee-Employer Privacy". Heard of it in the case of laywers and doctors, but never in the case of my boss. I'm fairly confident they can say if you were terminated with cause or not (that's got a legal definition, I'm unaware of all of the details).

    As a general rule, most employers will not say any more then that out of fear of legal retaliation if you fail to get the job. There is precedent for suing former employers due to bad references. Employees have one such cases. I'm unaware of the details, but I see that it is making things harder for interviewers to get enough information to get such an assessment. Hence as a general rule, there's a bit of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge going on during some reference calls to employers who want to say bad things, but don't want to face the legal repercussions.

    I know that it's in our hand book that if I am called as a reference for an employee who worked at my company, I can be fired for discussing past employees. However, that's because I'm creating a legal liability for the company and have no formal HR training to know what the laws and repercussions of what say.

    As a general rule, always say: "I didn't give that person permission to use me as a reference". Anyone who asks who you would not be a good reference for inform them that shouldn't be using you as a reference. Thus what you are saying is honest and true. Anyone you want to say good things about give them permission. Then say only really nice things about them.

    Kirby

  13. Notice by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I find it hard to believe that this guy would treat someone who's leaving an IT job this way. I have found more than one manager who preferred to pay me for the two weeks and hustle me out the door when I give them notice than so they can secure their networks against me, which is something that I consider a wise move.

    Not to say that you should sully yourself and your reputation with backdoor hacks and retribution, but it's a dumb manager that leaves you in a position to do so then provides incentive to do so by acting like a jerk. Your boss needs to be hit with a clue stick... there aren't too many ppl that can fuck up a business like an IT guy with inside knowledge and a chip on his shoulder.

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  14. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Who cares if the boss blows up or not? It's not within the writer's responsibility to find a replacement *or* cool off his boss's temper.

    Yeah, well, getting started on that next job is going to suck when you're sitting in jail for stealing office supplies. Of course after you're let out, the boss will be doing the accounting and it turns out that the ledger's off by a bit over $500, back into the court system you go. What are you going to tell your next boss "sorry, man, I know I just started here but I need a few days off to defend myself in court?"

  15. Re:My two cents... (A Bosses Point of View) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You do not have a legal obligation, and he can not withold your final paycheck for any hours you actually worked-- that is against the law. And there is no excuse for his behaviour and lack of professionalism.

    That said, you say this is a small development company. I do not know how critical you were to the operation or what mutual expectations you may have created. Looks like you were interacting with the clients.

    This is not specific to you, but in general for anyone who works for a small development company for a long time.

    At some time in the past, you started looking for a job. At some time prior to that you must have thrown a mental switch that you were going to start looking for a new job. At some time even prior to that, something about your work ceased to be rewarding. I am sure all of this did not happen overnight. You did stay there for 6 or 7 years. That is a long time in the software development business. Given your boss's reaction, you are likely a key member of the team. Did you catch your company and your customers by surprise when you announced you were leaving ? Did you discuss the events that were causing you to be unsatisfied when you threw the mental switch? Yes, your employment is likely at-will and your boss could have terminated your employment without much notice too -- but after 6 or 7 years at a small company, as a boss I would normally appreciate a transition time, specially when an employee is interacting with customers.

    Heck, this is a very incestous business with lots of M&A activity and paths do cross again and again so it is just good advice to show professionalism all around. You may run into your customer contacts again.

    Looks like you did offer to stay some extra time after you told the boss you were leaving. At this stage the environment seems fairly poisoned, so you should confront him about his behaviour and insist that you would to leave immediately if it does not improve. The couple of weeks of salary isnt going to mean much, and given the environment you would have no motivation to give your 100%.

  16. Re:My two cents... by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was making the assumption that this manager, while superfically unreasonable, is fundamentally capable of rational thought, while you're reminding us that that assumption may not be valid.

    That's about it. Thanks -- you summarized it MUCH better than I did.

    It's also important to remember a person like this may show rational thought in many areas, but still be emotionally unbalanced in others.

    Yes, I agree about a reputation being important, and this boss can hurt it, but from what we have, it seems most people around him are aware that the boss has issues. I would also think that people who worked with him for a while would easily know the score. Yes, the manager does have a weapon, but if everyone is aware he is toons (no, that was never a term we used technically!), it is less effective.

    FWIW, in the job I mentioned, the firm had been around for over 20 years. At one time it had a good reputation, but over the past 10 years they had earned a reputation in their area (which was a poor area of houses as old as pre-civil war and was undergoing gentrification) as being cheap, cheating the tenent, and even abusing their authority. My boss, and his boss (the owner) were largely responsible for that. There were only the three of us in the company, and about 6 months after I started, the owner died. About 5 months later, with my boss running the company and the executrice (sp?) of the will still not having sold the company, I found out I would not get a paycheck that week -- legal problems, the estate being in debt, etc. While they admitted owning me, they did not have the money to pay. I asked how much they were selling the company for, and got on the phone. I seriously considered talking to my family, getting the backing, buying the company, and firing my boss.

    This is appropos because my boss was largely responsible for the bad reputation of the company and many people in the area had dealt with him and specifically cursed him in public (and quite often!). I made a lot of calls and found out that in the 11 months I had been there, I had developed quite a reputation. I never bragged or badmouthed my company or boss, but the whole area basically had the attitude of, "Don't deal with the company, but if you have to, deal with him -- he'll treat you as fair as you can, unless his boss won't let him."

    In less than a year, while I was working for a company with a crappy reputation, everyone in the area basically knew I would stick to my word and they could trust me, while nobody trusted my boss (who, at almost 50, was known to run out of the front office and literally hide in a closet when certain tenents or property owners came in to handle business).

    So, while I'm bias, and speaking of a unique situation, would I would think most people will know the score and separate the boss's anger from the employee's responsibility. They've already had a lot of time to see what's going on. And, if he maintains his dignity, often it is possible to make sure you act properly as the other person gets more and more irrational, then, without saying anything negative, you've held up, and the other person has ruined their rep by getting angry because he wouldn't play their game.

  17. Re:Can't withhold pay by sfriedrich · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Honor your committment but expect nothing in return.

    Old fart story to follow --

    I was working for a -very- small company when I got hired by Apple in '86. I gave them 2 weeks notice and told them that I wanted to make sure that we had a good transition. The next morning I got a phone call from the boss and was told not to come in that day and, "oh, by the way; your last paycheck has been cancelled". Wow, I was a young father and the loss of even a single paycheck was deeply painful to my family.

    I'll never forget the advice that the Apple recruiter (John Boring) gave me when I related the story to him; "Yes, you -can- take this to the labor board and you -will- win... however, you can spend your career looking forward or looking backward... it's up to you where to concentrate." I took his advice, forgot about the offense and the past and had a -GREAT- career at Apple and afterwards. I'd advise you to do the same.

  18. Re:My two cents... by SeventyBang · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree completely - and will add more:

    What would you do if you had a girlfriend you were trying to break up with who started doing this stuff [to you]? This is separation anxiety[1]. It's being done to manipulate you. If you start feeling wishy-washy or give any indication of it (including telling anyone else there, you're going to encourage it because he'll know it's working.

    [1] toddlers have the same problem when Mommy, whom Timmy has relied upon being there all of the time, is stepping out for the evening.

    Talk to your co-workers about everything after you've left over drinks some night. After you'e had a week or two to jump into your new job and your old office has settled down a bit. And if you are part of a herd departure (en masse), you can form a support group between those of you who have managed to get out to another job and supporting those who are still caught in the tar pit. Eventually, you can routinely have a "survivors' meeting" and keep an eye on what's going on - how many ads they've run and how long they've stayed open, etc.

    If he's going to trash you in front of everyone, it's like the old philosopher whose students come in and say, "Teacher! You won't believe the things they are saying about you on the streets!" "What are you going to do?" "Nothing. I live such that no one will believe it."

    Ever hear the phrase, "Wrestle with a pig and win-or-lose, you get dirty." ?

    The other thing you're doing is showing everyone else they can leave on their own as well. If you buckle under, they're going to feel as though they can't leave, either. Be a good example for everyone else. (unless you hate their guts)

    All but two or three states (sorry, I can't tell you which they are) have employment at will laws. This means they can walk in and can you sans notice and you can do the same to them. The issues of bias & discrimination then come in when you have to figure out if it was because of something they shouldn't have used.

    Counter-offers.
    These are worthless. You've made a commitment to someone else for a particular amount of money, etc. Backing down on that only shames you. And when your current employer finds you can be bought, you know what they think about you:

    A man walked up to a girl and asked her, "Would you sleep with me for $1M?"
    "Yes!" she said.
    "Would you sleep with me for $25?"
    "What kind of girl do you think I am?"
    "We've already established that. Now we're arguing price."

    Now. If you're ever in the driver's seat with your current employer and they make you a deal you can't resist, what's going to happen to you when they don't need you anny more?

    Oh, one other thing: exit interviews. Depending upon the circumstances, they can serve different purposes. If they've taken your feedback and general ideas over your time there and put it into effect, then an exit interview is a time to open up and provide feedback. If, however, you're getting out of there because you are getting out while you can before the pr%ck you are working for goes postal, an exit interview will largely be used to let you blow off steam and let you vent, hoping you won't air dirty laundry in the future, as that goes two ways: how they function as a company (business-wise) and how they work internally (employee-wise) - both can hurt a business' reputation in the public eye...horribly. If they are suddenly so interested in your feedback as an ex-employee, why weren't they routinely soliciting it as an employee - particularly once you start[ed] showing yourself to be a source of good ideas?

    All-in-all, it's a small, small world. You never know when something good or bad is going to come back and benefit or haunt you. It's as if the movie cameras are always running. I've had placement services contact me asking if I was the one who {did something good because someone passed good words} and they've contacted others because I've told them about {someone I know who has done well with...}

  19. Can't withhold last paycheck by imnoteddy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Simply point out to this idiot that if they withhold your last paycheck that you will go to a lawyer who is an expert on employment law in your state who will love to take on your case and totally ream the company for potentially a hundred times as much money as your last paycheck.

    Unless you signed an employment agreement that requires you to find your replacement (which you probably didn't and which wouldn't stand up in court anyway) they don't have a leg to stand on.

    --
    No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
  20. Stick it out. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just because your now thankfully soon to be ex-boss is an unprofessional jerkoff, doesn't mean you need to sink to his level.

    I got forced to resign under threats of BS lawsuits (which I couldn't afford to fight) by a guy who was pushing me out specifically because I told him, when asked, that I believed our company problems stemmed from bad marketing tactics.

    Since he was in charge, and since his son was head of marketing, I pretty much figured what the outcome was going to be, even saying it as politely as I could. But he went seriously overboard, and really screwed me, when it wouldn't have cost him anything to act like a professional instead of a child.

    Even so, I told him I'd enjoyed working for his company, dealt professionally with the last few of my responsibilities and cut my losses. I did this to a degree that he's been trying to hire me freelance for the last two years, even after that company went Chapter 13.

    I say "trying" because I'm professional, not stupid.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  21. Living well is the best revenge by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Reminds me of a young guy I once knew who worked for an outfit I did some consulting for. He'd worked there a couple of years while finishing up and defending his Phd dissertation, but was doign work well below is capabilities. After successfully defending his thesis, he landed an excellent job at a prestigious intitution.

    His boss at first was OK, then one day suddenly turned on him in the kind manner you describe, trying to humiliate him and doing everything short if cutting the buttons off of his blazer. The young guy was very cool about it, a total class act, but everyone else around was appalled. I asked the young guy about it later, and he shrugged, and said it didn't bother him too much because he was going places in this field, and the boss wasn't doing himself any favors in his future employment prospects.

    Of course, this kid was thinking in terms of years, but it turned out his prediction came true a lot faster. Some of the people who were remaining behind began quietly looking into the boss's Phd, and discovered it was fraudulent, and spread the information around where it would do the most damage.

    The lesson is that sometimes you really do create a kind of karmic force that affect your destiny. Take no action to harm your boss or your current company in any way; it's pointless since they can' harm you in this situation -- only you can harm yourself. Act with dignity and professionalism and everybody who can see this situation will remember all the more clearly for the contrast with your boss's actions.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  22. NO! work it out or get the police by bluGill · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any situation where you cannot work until your last day and they have not told you to stay home with pay is a situation where you need police protection.

    Even if your next job is lined up, work out your last days. (Or work out a deal to leave early, often they will let you leave earlier than your required time, but be willing to work it out) You only think you have the next job lined up perfect, there are too many things you don't know.

    I have had jobs that seemed great for 3 months and then the funding fell through and I was on the street without a job in less than an hour. (the CEO basically said I could work next week, but he had just enough money to cover this weeks pay and no hope of enough to pay me for next week so I should file for unemployment)

    I've known others who discovered that the job was great, but traffic was worse than they thought, so the new job wasn't worth it.

    I've known some offers to be pulled after someone gives their two weeks. (This is a legal blurry area, they have some obligation to you at this point, but not much)

    I've known people who took jobs that seemed great, only to discover it was a terrible abusive company that could hide it well.

    Most people who switch jobs end up with a situation about like they expect, and they work there for a few years. However all of the above bad situations have happened, and they will happen again. If you are the unlucky person who it happens to you may have to fall back on the older job as a reference.

    Remember too, your former co-workers are you best source of reference. If I was actively looking for a job today (I'm always looking of course), I do not want those I'm working with to know, so I cannot use them as a reference. All that are left is people who have left this company before, and people I worked with at the last job. So keep your references.

  23. Very Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Its all very simple since he has given you an
    out with the paycheck comment.

    You don't work for free. You tell him that
    such a condition (working with the possiblity
    of not getting paid) is not acceptable and
    that you must now leave. (You will have
    previously packed up all your stuff and
    brought it home at lunchtime right?) You
    tell him that you are available to work as
    a paid consultant for $300 an hour, billable
    weekly. This amount covers the possiblity
    of not getting a last paycheck (as soon as
    he misses one you are gone or the rate doubles)

    You have a huge opportunity to use this guy's
    fear to raid his walet. This is what makes
    the good old USA great. Don't miss out.
    You will regret it later.

  24. Re:And now: My two cents... by Rorgg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    >

    Heh, I know one of these who needs a job. Guy came in as a consultant on a huge db conversion project we were insanely understaffed on, so as a highly paid contractor, they gave him a part of it and left him alone.

    Naturally his part got delayed and whatnot, and as it became clear toward the end of the main body of the project was nearing an end, he was hired on by management in a senior admin position, despite some vague warnings from those in the trenches.

    Once his part of it got finished, well behind the rest, all the rank-and-file admins realized he was a complete incompetent, who would just drone on and on based on bad premises to anyone who would listen. To anyone who didn't know better (read: management) he was a brilliant admin with biting analysis. To everyone with a clue, he was a clueless idiot doing pointless busiwork to hide it.

    Of course, management loved him, and he stayed with us for nearly THREE YEARS before finally there were enough documented cases of him destroying stuff for management to give in and restrict his rights -- whereupon he used what access he did still have to let himself back in under someone else's ID. At that point, caught red-handed, and finally confessing after denying it, he FINALLY got canned because there was simply no other option.

    So, yeah, hire him. Your boss deserves it.

  25. Re:And now: My two cents... by TheMCP · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In regard to cutting your losses and leaving... if you already have the new job lined up and the current job started mistreating you after you gave your notice, just call the new job and say "I know I told you I wanted to give two weeks notice at my old position, but it turns out that won't be necessary. Would you like me sooner?"

    If they're pros, they'll understand, really. And if they do say they'd like you to start immediately, just pack your personal belongings at your old office, then inform the old manager that since he's clearly "concerned" about having you around this will be your last day, and does he have any further questions before you depart? He'll be angry. He may tell you so. If he asks, it's okay to tell him honestly that you've felt mistreated since you gave your notice and have no desire to remain further to experience more of it. (After all, he asked.) He may be angry about that too, but that's not your problem.

    Then as long as he's reasonably sane, answer any questions he may have about your job (he may want passwords for stuff etc), and spend the rest of the day politely providing final information to aid their transition to your replacement.

    And if he yells at all, just say good bye, walk out of his office, go get your box of personal stuff, and leave. You have no further need of him and no obligation to stay if he's going to act hostile and threatening. Make sure to say good-bye to at least three people on your way out, including people who don't have your (now ex-)boss as their boss, so they can verify the time and date of your departure in case it becomes an issue regarding pay.

  26. Re:And now: My two cents... by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Honestly, unless the boss is the CEO, it's probably worth escalating this up the chain to your HR department. The boss in question clearly should not be employed, and if you play your cards right, you might end up getting the job... assuming you would even want it....

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  27. Just Burn Them by amemily · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My personal experience in these matters, may not be applicable since I work in an entirely different world.

    A few months ago, I was given my choice of IT positions with three diferent state agencies and a half-dozen well-paying urban school districts. At the time I was working for a rural class A school district with a boss who is the sterotypical school teacher dumped into an IT manager position - basically he couldn't manage his way out of a paperbag. His brillant idea was that I was going to stick around until the end of the school year and look for a job than. Yea right, I really wasn't going to stay, if I wasn't "importaint enough" to be paid a decent salary and to be treated with some basic respect, I wasn't "importaint enough" to stick around that long.

    For that, his and some of my collegues's attitudes over the past years, and other reasons I rather not get into....after negoiating my start date with my new boss, I handed in my notice to the supt timed so that I was gone days before semester changeover when the place turns into a clusterfuck with pissy schoolteachers demanding the world.

    Five months later, my ex-collegues in my old department still will not speak to me...personally, I think they got what they deserved. Just because I am female doesn't mean I'm an instant secretary, nor does it mean I'm physically unable to pick up a computer and move the damned thing....there is a fine line between being nice and being an insulting asshole.

    It is nice when you can escape a workplace that causes you to live on antacids.

    And karma can be a bitch sometimes....that district is on the verge of imploding on itself with their new superitendent coming onboard who is not well-liked enough by both the old-guard and younger staff members that they are looking at leaving.

    Hi Steve Z if you are reading this, we all know you hang out on ./

  28. Been in a bad situation myself and learned from it by ks5d · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can defintely sympathize with your current predicament -- my first full-time job was for a small software development company that turned out to be a real sweat shop. I got hired on because a friend of mine for years -- I'll call him Jim -- was working there and they needed someone else. I knew I'd be working for him, but we got along fine so I wasn't worried. Big mistake.

    In short, I didn't know Jim except as a peer and as a manager he micromanaged and browbeat everyone, including me. I realized soon after starting that I couldn't talk to Jim and reason with him -- he just was completely closed off about it. So after a while, I spoke to the owner and explained why I couldn't work there anymore since it was what I considered to be a hostile work environment. Rather than listen to me, he called in my about-to-be-former friend and made me explain to his face why I couldn't work there. I did it, and as a result the two weeks notice I offered I wound up having to retract after Jim punched his fist through the drywall in the office.

    Moral of the story? First, never mix friendship with work -- it never works out, especially if you were friends in some other context first. And second, if faced with a constantly hostile work environment, you owe it to your own sanity and self-worth to remove yourself from the situation. Remember, hostility in the office is grounds for litigation.

    I don't think he can justify holding back your paycheck; if he feels differently, I imagine that a phone call from your attorney would clear that up in a hurry. As for finding a replacement for you, if he actually feels like that is your responsibility then you should get out of there before he goes further over the edge than he already is. Don't confront him directly about the paycheck if he refuses -- the cost of an hour or two of time for an attorney is worth the freedom from the hassle and the rest of that paycheck.

    Just my two cents' worth -- others' mileage may vary. Best of luck with your dilemma...these things are why life is hard. Just remember to be honorable about what you do and say but don't take crushing abuse because you think you have no alternative. It's the battered wife syndrome applied to the workplace...

  29. Department of Labor will handle it all for you by cliffpeaslee · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I ran into a similar situation, and the DOL sent a threatening letter to my boss, and he complied about as quick as he received it. I considered small claims, but that would have taken months and I'd have to pay for lawyer. DOL is quick (at least in NH). I filed on Saturday, he received the letter on Thursday, and he had to pay by Monday (10 days). If he refused, then the state would defend me. Oh, it is all actionable if he misses the pay period. Good luck.