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How to Leave a Job on Good Terms?
An anonymous reader writes "I've been working for a small development company for 6 or 7 years. My boss has always been a bit nuts but overall it hasn't been a bad experience. I recently accepted a great job offer for a technology position in a different industry. I gave my boss my notice this week, and while he initially was understanding, he has since starting making accusations of conspiracy, deceit, and has otherwise attempted to make me look bad in front of employees and long-time clients. (who, thankfully, also think he is nuts) I don't like to burn bridges, but I'm pretty sure he's already burned it to the ground, even threatening to withhold my final paycheck if I don't find a replacement before I leave. Is it worth sticking out the few weeks I already told him I worked, or should I just cut my losses and leave early?"
My boss has always been a bit nuts...
Been there...I sympathize.
There is no excuse for this sort of behavior. Period. Next time he tries to do it, confront him. Remember, at this point, he needs you a lot more than you need him.
I don't like to burn bridges, but I'm pretty sure he's already burned it to the ground, even threatening to withhold my final paycheck if I don't find a replacement before I leave.
You know, strictly speaking, it is his responsibility to find a replacement for your position, not yours. You should remind him of this in no uncertain terms.
Is it worth sticking out the few weeks I already told him I worked or should I just cut my losses and leave early?"
Just remember that giving a company notice before you leave is not a requirement...it is a courtesy you are extending as part of a positive professional relationship. Frankly, I'd ask him for a letter of recommendation up front, and if he refuses, or threatens to give you a less than optimal review, you simply do not owe him the courtesy of notice.
In short, don't devalue yourself, and don't let him devalue you, either.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
"Is it worth sticking out the few weeks I already told him I worked or should I just cut my losses and leave early?"
:)
:)
Easy. You don't have any losses. You have a job waiting for you.
Stick with it until you said you would. ALWAYS keep to your word especially when leaving an employer. If they want you gone now, they will walk you out of the building.
It is your bosses problem, not yours. This sounds like a me vs you thing. If it is so bad, talk to your HR. The odds are that if everybody knows your boss is nuts, they do to. If they don't know, they want to know.
Do you believe that you are responsible for finding your replacement? I don't understand how they could keep your paycheck if YOU don't find a replacement.
If your boss thinks that he cannot replace you, put some bait in front of him. Ask if they can match an offer or do something to change your work environment. Even if you have no interest in staying, it buys time and allows you to leave with a smile on your face when YOU say no.
Back to the original though. DO NOT QUIT EARLY! You gave your word and it is a small world. It would suck to have this bite you in the ass. In a few weeks it will be over and you will laugh at it.
Oh yea...
You insensitive clod! You have a JOB! You have an OFFER and a JOB! You have a 'soon to be X Boss' that you can &uck with? Quit bitching!
Get over it! Screw with the Boss and have fun. You are leaving, he has no control over you. You have an offer, you don't need his reference. Get prepared for your new career and forget the past.
I am curious what the "different industry" is. Did you take up Hindu?
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
This sounds legally dubious.
You need the advice of a solictor. Especially if he is withholding pay, and damaging your reputation.
Most sane and mature employers understand that as long as you give them notice of the termination of employment that the burden of employee replacement is on the employer, not you. The fact that your current employer is doing this proves how immature he is. Withholding the last paycheck may be something stipulated in documents you signed at the beginning of employment so you may want to look those over.
I have had previous employers that I have had issues with personally, but tried my best not to burn the bridge myself. If they had burned the bridge, I would definitely talk to their boss about this. If they didn't have a boss above them then I would gladly have had choice words for them. It's all a judgement call, but if you need this on your resume, definitely don't burn the bridge yourself.
I am a meat popsicle.
DO NOT write anything like the following in a slashdot article: My boss has always been a bit nuts.
Video Production Support
There's no "stricly speaking" about it. You have no responsibility on this point.
If everyone knows your current boss is a nut case, just try to live with it until you leave. If you can't stand it, just walk out. You already have a follow-on job, and you don't need this guy, if he's going to bad mouth you anyway, cut your loss and don't show up tomorrow.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I have no good advice for your general situation, other than this:
1) offer to go quietly immediately, and offer to stay for a reasonable period of time - 2 weeks after your initial notice is reasonable - and let him make the choice.
2) if he lets you go today, don't expect to get paid for time not worked.
If he actually withholds your final paycheck, take it up with human resources, his supervisor, or if necessary, someone higher up. What he is doing is most likely illegal. If necessary, remind him of his legal obligations and that the next step will be the court system, civil AND if applicable, criminal court. Don't threaten legal action unless all else fails, that will burn all bridges.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It's the same as breaking up with a signifigant other - when it comes right down to the marbles, you're leaving because there's something you don't like, and by collary, you think that you can find something better. In this case, you already have something better. The person on the other side of the equation is going to have a tough time with that.
It's worse if you're leaving a business on shakey ground - because it's the ultimate vote of non-confidence. I think it's worse in tech, because a lot of the time, the people ARE the company.
Don't worry about what your boss thinks. Do what you said you would, always, but at the end of the day the decision has already been made. Concentrate on making a good impression with your new employers.
..don't panic
I've been there, done that.
Had a couple bosses (especially, for some reason, small development and start-up companies) that lost it.
The easy answer is: do the right thing. You did the right thing by giving notice, you did the right thing by hanging in there. Go in to work each day and be the best you can. Help hand off the codebase. Give the best training you can to the others.
The more you do the right thing and your boss acts like an idiot, the better you are doing. Do the right thing and let the rest slide.
In both of my cases, the old boss felt sorry for acting the way he did. (But this took several months) People get upset when they don't know what to do. Sometimes they act very poorly. My advice is to be a bigger person than that.
Um...no. Respectfully, I must disagree.
It is not the writer's responsibility to find a replacement. That resposibility lies squarely with the manager.
If the manager still doesn't like it, tough. He's contractually obligated to pay that final paycheck.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Threatening to withold it is illegal, regardless of whether or not he actually does it.
I don't think it will be a big deal. He obviously got this new job without a reference from the psycho manager, so he will have the new manager (hopefully not a psycho) as reference for his next job. He can still list the old place, and if someone wants a reference contact in the future, give them someone other than the psycho manager, who hopefully would have been fired by that point anyway. In summary, you don't necessarily need a reference from your manager to be able to list a job on your resume. Some companies don't even allow managers to give references, so HR departments are used to encountering situations where they can't get a reference from someone's current or previous manager. Just use someone else.
First, it's not his responsibility.
Second, and more importantly, there are a ton of issues that go into a hiring decision, many of which don't have a thing to do with the specifics of a job. An applicant may have skills, but may not have the right temperament, outlook, or might not be a good fit for the company's culture. (Or a zillion other reasons...)
I've hired, and I've (thankfully rarely) fired. Bringing on the wrong person isn't good for anyone, and from a company's perspective, is tremendously expensive in time and money.
Finding your own replacement for a job is just a bad idea all around.
Actually, in this situation, it really could make things better for him. I suspect that if you document the harrassment (including the libel/slander he has apparently been committing) and bring it to the attention of your company's legal department, your boss will immediately be read the riot act and told to STFU.
If your current company doesn't have a legal department, they probably aren't well set up to defend themselves against a lawsuit. Remember, if you win (and it sounds like you probably would, but IANAL) you can recover not only damages but also penalties and legal costs.
Again, IANAL. But documenting everything would be a good idea at this point, if you are not already doing it.
Always dangerous to respond with limited details of a situation, but here are some basics that may help:
:-)
:-)
1. Put the onus of responsibility on him (management) where it belongs. Ask him to meet all the aspects of the new job you like (i.e. pay, benefits, responsibilities/tools, commute, working from home, etc). Note: He won't meet these requests, but, it puts focus back on the things for which you are leaving rather than his charactor assasiniation. Don't give him more time as he "works" to meet your needs either.
2. If you were so horrible (as it sounds like he is accusing you of) then why did he (management) keep you for 6-7 years? It begins to look pretty strange to anyone (peers or other management types) once that logic emerges
3. Continue to be professional, in spite of his lack of professionalism. Keep a journal of things said to you for potential legal action later should he follow through with his threats to withold pay. (Please tell me you did not send this message from work, which would fall outside this "professionalism" suggestion... calling a boss names in open forum that can be traced to you would be a bad thing...)
Best of luck to you, sorry you are having a rough path out to bigger and better things...
CS
This is a great idea...oh wait...no it's not....it's the opposite of great....what's that word...oh yeah. TERRIBLE. Yeah, that's it.
Seriously, though, you really need to establish yourself firmly as the sane, sensible party here. It's unfortunate, but you really do have to go out of your way to insure that you are never percieved as irrational or unreasonable.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
One thing you might want to think about doing is a status report that you can give to your boss and either the HR department or your boss's boss. That way, you have in writing the status of projects and any major issues still open and your boss can't "blame" you for things that he may not have done correctly.
Also, don't think it's legal for them to withhold your paycheck and the things he is saying could be grounds for slander...I'm sure the HR department would be very interested in that.
It's pretty obvious what's going on here: the boss is out of his depth, his own job is in jeopardy, maybe his personal life is also in the toilet, and he's blaming everyone but himself for his woes. Under those circumstances, confrontation of any kind is unlikely to help things, and could easily make things worse. What do I mean by "worse"? Maybe just a few harsh words, but this is a classic formula for workplace violence. One should step carefully.
The threat to withhold the final paycheck is, of course, illegal. The way to deal with this is to politely remind the boss of that fact. If that produces more outbursts, then you should take it to the HR department, and maybe your boss's boss, both of whom will be quite concerned at the legal exposure such a threat creates. Or, if the boss is also the proprietor, you should talk to the state employment commission.
And you should probably depart as soon as your statutory two weeks is up. There are many good reasons to remain longer: you want to act professionally, you don't want to leave your co-workers in the lurch, etc. But they just don't apply when you're being abused and threatened in this way.
Seriously - don't sink to his level, make threats or do anything unethical - he will just use it against you.
Keep records of anything they accuse you of and what you are doing your last few weeks.
If, after you leave they try to withhold your last paycheck just file a complaint with your state deptartment of employment. Every state I am familiar with has strict laws about requiring that you get paid for time worked. The state I work in has a law stating that the only reason an employer can withhold wages is if there is a court order in place.
Later, if you feel that your former employer is trying to do something to damage your reputation, talk to a lawyer. This sort of slander is viewed very dimly in the courts.
There's something called "labor law" (hope that's the correct term in English) which is there to protect employees from threats (and actions) exactly like the ones your boss seems to be making. At least in Europe, but I am very sure there's an equivalent in the US, too.
All you need to do is to look into your contract and be sure to have complied with the terms of notice (again, hopefully the correct term in English). If you did then you are entitled to your final paychecks, dismissal pay (correct term?), etc.
Your boss has no rights whatsoever to withhold any of your paychecks or to talk badly about you or your work if you quit your job in accordance with your contract. Of course there's nothing to keep him from opening his mouth and being "a bit nuts", but he may not do anything which would be to your disadvantage.
If you are in doubt you might want to contact a lawyer or look into the code yourself. You do not need to take shit like that from him (or any other supervisor).
And which parallel universe did you crawl out of?
Whether or not it is important to leave a job on good terms is a personal issue for you to answer, not a question for the community. It might make a difference in your future career but it is much more a question of personality, and whether you would regret the bad blood.
If you decide you do want to leave on good terms, best approach IMO is to talk to the nut directly, don't go behind his back or get anyone else to intervene on your behalf. Try to be the hurt pal, let him know how you want to be remembered as a good worker, that you were there a long time, that it bothers you he could think you were causing trouble, and so on. It might not work right away, or at all, but if so you'll know for sure there was nothing more you could do. You may have every right to be angry (we can't know for sure, but it seems you do) but acting angry does no good if what you want to accomplish is to calm down the paranoid.
And if it doesn't work, *then* calmly make sure you've covered all your bases: dot your i's and cross your t's, keep proof of everything, and don't say anything stupid.
In my own experience I've felt sometimes it was worth going the extra mile to make someone happy, and sometimes it wasn't.
Talented individuals rely on their marketability. The mediocre masses need unions.
Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
Yeah, like you won't be the first suspect in any subsequent investigation. You could get several years in jail if you fuck up their network. Don't do it.
All we have to do is start choosing to regulate our own environment. You don't like it? Fine, quit; find another environment, create your own enivronment. You'll probably be more successfull in either case.
A girl I know keeps working in bad jobs for unfair bosses doing project management for the construction trade. She provides exceptional customer satisfaction and competency. She just switched jobs again; what she should have done was started her own contracting company and buried the competition.
Again, I'm now stupified as to why we persist in maintaining bad relationships. Are we that desperate to obtain our validation and self worth from external sources? (And yes, I used to in a variety of relationship types. At least I fixed the career.)
Regulate yourself; don't count on anybody else to do it for you because no one else (Except maybe your mother) has *your* best interests as their agenda; nor do they accurately know what you need. (And I would argue that your monther doesn't either.)
I will never live for sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
I was working at a smallish outfit a few years ago when someone recommended me to a VoIP startup. The position came with enough stock options to choke a horse and a nice bump in pay, so I took the gig on the condition I could finish my current project at the original company. They accepted, I did, and when I resigned from Company A the boss told me I was welcome to return any time. The guy didn't take it personally at all, so the whole thing was quite civilised.
Well, the startup did what startups tend to do, and once the paycheques stopped I phoned up my former employer. It turned out he had a great pile of pending projects which needed an experienced DSP engineer, and here comes this ghost from the past who also happens to be familiar with the code base. It took us somewhat less than a minute to reach an agreement.
If he had freaked out and pulled the above crap, I would've never called him up again even if I were so poor I had to eat cat food, but because the guy was a consummate professional we're both ahead of the game.
Francois.
Here's my advice. Take what you will. I've been somewhere similar once. I didn't follow this advice entirely, but if I had to do it again, I would. Hopefully you can learn from my mistakes.
Do the time from your notice there. You aren't obligated to find a replacement, but tell your boss that you're happy to spend your remaining time looking for one and training one up if you find one. Be polite, even though the prick doesn't deserve it. Do not let yourself be intimidated. Let him dig his grave in front of the other employees. Politely disagree or ask for clarification when you are attacked or discredited. Do not work one extra minute beyond what notice you've given, do not work one extra minute overtime. You owe your boss nothing due to those threats. But make sure that any potential future employer can look back and see that you delivered 100% on what you owed, and that the employer was the one who fell short. You need to be 100% in the right because your employer will trash you when a future employer calls up to confirm your employment there. You need to show you did nothing wrong.
Expect nothing in return. You probably won't get the pay. Move to your next job and concentrate on that. If your pay doesn't show, consult a lawyer, and write a polite but firm letter stating exactly what you are owed, with a due date, sent by registered mail. Take your time, discuss things in writing only. If he calls by phone (likely) and offers anything, ask for confirmation in writing (unless it is money, in which case ask when it will arrive). Don't let yourself be intimidated. If they won't play ball, after you're settled and have a steady income, then weigh up legal action. Do not fight this without a stable income behind you, it will be one of the most miserable experiences in your life. I've been there. Get a position of strength whilst attempting to be "reasonable", and if you feel it important to crush the prick afterwards, do so. Don't go light on them because they "might" give you a bad reference. Think about what they are going to do if you let them off. If they'll trash you anyway, you've got nothing to lose, assuming you can show you've been reasonable through the whole process.
I could go on, but you've probably got the gist.
Another 2nd Amendment lover here. Your post is the *best* advice I've seen. I agree with every word...
Requiring the finding of a replacement, unless it's written into his contract, does seem fraudulent. A lawyer and/or small-claims court (unless the paycheck is too big) are certainly the way to go.
Packing heat will just make things far, *far* worse.
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
And I bet that old boss is still fucking people out of their wages.
And your old boss went on to fuck over the next dozen people who walked through the door, totally unpunished. Hooray.
So, if I break into someone's house and steal $500 from his dresser drawer, what is my punishment? Let's compare, shall we?
"Is it worth sticking out the few weeks I already told him I worked, or should I just cut my losses and leave early?"
[Trollmode="off"]
It depends on how you want future employers to see you. Do you want to be known as the guy who stuck with a tough situation and honored his obligations, or the guy who "cut his losses" (as other people are suggesting) and ran?
I'm not sure it's actually illegal (though it may be) because in some way, the employee is commiting fraud. If I get hired pretending to be a lawyer and I'm not, I don't think I can expect to be paid for the time it took my employer to figure out.
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
I called the BSA on a job after they refused to pay my last check. Not sure what happened but considering one of my last tasks had been an internal software audit I had more than enough evidence to satisfy the BSA guys when they got back to me about it. They basically pirated everything at that place.
In 40 years of employment, I found there were some times that it was impossible to leave without burning bridges. Sure, it's best to avoid this if you can, but it just isn't always possible. You simply cannot control the actions of another individual; you can only influence them. My advice would be to keep documentation on what has happened, just in case you need it later. Meanwhile, you have no obligation to find a replacement, etc. You've given reasonable notice. You already have another job waiting. There is no reason to do anything else - unless you just want to leave early to avoid additional harassment. Don't blame yourself, or do anything silly because of someone else's actions. Best of luck!
Remember that it's not just your boss you are trying to maintain a professional relationship with. If you just "walk off" you might be screwing over people other than him. Do what you can to maintain a good relationship with as many people as you can. You'll be suprised how that can help you in the long term. Most places don't want references from just your boss, they want people you've worked with too. Now might be a great time to go over his head and let his boss know that you are trying to help.
M@
Krispy Cream is people
I've been in similar situations. One employer got into a fistfight with an employee who was leaving. You should 1. Turn in any keys, security cards, etc. NOW. If you have high security access to servers or other resources relinquish them NOW. Tell your boss why you are doing this (so that there won't be a possibility that you can be accused if something is missing, stolen, etc.) Do this publicly. 2. Do NOT tell your current employer who your next employer will be. Sometimes the nutzo employer will call your future employer and bad mouth you. If your next employer is smart they'll ignore him, but sometimes people lose job opportunities to this. 3. Contact your next employer and see if you can go ahead and start work now. 4. Don't confront your nutzoid employer, but do tell him (quietly and civil-like in PUBLIC) that you're uncomfortable with his hostile behavior and would he mind if you left now? 5. If he indicates that you may leave now-GET IT IN WRITING. if he says no, and continues to threaten you then report him to your local labor authorities. Don't leave until he's been contacted by the labor folks or your notice is up. 6. Do not agree to anything he requests, demands, etc. in private. ALWAYS be in public or have someone accompany you to any meetings with him. Back up any agreements with a formal memo detailing the agreement and copy someone else in the department as well as your boss.
I am not a lawyer, but unless you have an employment contract that says you are responsible for finding your own replacement, the boss cannot hold your final paycheck for that. Play it clean and to the rule to the end, and document, document, document. If you aren't paid promptly and in full after you leave, check to see if there is either a state labor board, or an arm of the U.S. Dept. of Labor (I'm assuming you're in the U.S.) having to do with wage complaints. Failing that, just file suit in small claims court. I'm betting he cuts the check for you the day he gets the summons.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
I was in a similar situation a few years ago, when I was wooed by a competitor offering a superior position, but only a modest salary increase. I gave my then-current employer the opportunity to match the salary and open up an avenue for advancement (my position at the time was a dead end, and I had risen to the top of the salary matrix), but they declined. So I gave them the customary two weeks' notice.
It was like pushing the "nasty behavior" button. They immediately confiscated my company truck and tools (did they think I would take them with me to the new job?), then asked me to serve out my final two weeks assisting another engineer (stripped of responsibility as punishment... vindictive bastards, they were). I guess they figured I'd quit and forfeit my accrued vacation. Fat chance!
I took the high road, politely explained that I had important support tasks scheduled at other engineers' facilities (I was a roving specialist) and offered to use my personal vehicle and tools. Of course, I submitted vouchers for mileage, which they were required to pay per company policy. At the end of it all, I was paid everything due me, including vacation time, and had the satisfaction of leaving on a high note, with the respect of my peers and associates.
I'd advise you to do the same. Take the high road, be profesional, and stick it out. If they give you any crap over compensation, haul them before your locale's version of the National Labor Relations Board.
This isn't the sig you're looking for... Move along.
As somebody who doesn't like confrontation and a keen awareness of how delusional this person may be I'd go with the following:
Read your labour law. Being educated is the best defence. Then write a polite letter containing the relevant sections of the law, and outlining your reasons for wanting to change job, obviously not referring to him a major reason. Print the letter (always looks better on paper for some bizarre reason) and put it on his desk.
This may work in making him aware that you're not a walk-over, that you know your legal rights and may even come as a surprise / reminder to him. You might both walk away with face saved and he may reconnect with reality and the limitations on his power.
It's a small world and you never know when you're going to run into the same people again. It's worth almost every decent effort to be cooperative and helpful, to try to end your current job with a good conscience.
Confronting your boss is very risky. There's only one way I would recommend if you have to - insist on a meeting with your boss AND his boss to plan how you will best use your remaining time (and while you're at it, make your case that you're being a good employee). Bear in mind that as a departing employee, you are actually providing your company the service of being able to blame things on you rather than look in the mirror. As a consultant I've faced this a lot, and I just regard it as one of the things I'm paid for (see below). Don't let it get to you.
NEXT time you change jobs, here are some pieces of advice:
(1) Don't tell anyone at work about your new job until you start it and decide how you like it. (2) Give as little notice as you decently can, rarely more than two weeks. Longer notice opens you up as a longterm target.
(3) Think about negotiating a "reciprocal notice" clause, something I've managed to do for 20 years. The idea is that the amount of notice you are required to give the company is the same that they are require to give you, be it one hour, two weeks or whatever; the more security they give you, the more you give them.
(4) Since we always sign agreements about proprietary property (which tend to be vaguely written in favor of the employer), it's a good idea when you change jobs to change to a somewhat different field, to avoid charges you are taking knowledge with you. Your boss of course has no right to withhold your paycheck for any grounds whatsoever. If you're worried about a real problem here, get copies of all relevant company policy BEFORE your last day. It will be much harder after you leave the company. Make it gently clear to the company president, if they actually try to withhold your paycheck, that you will be contacting your senator, a lawyer, and the relevant state regulatory boards (even though such boards probably do not exist) and that the time they spend dealing with you will be a much greater waste than paying you. E.g., "If you try to illegally withhold my paycheck, you're going to wind up spending an awful lot of time responding to queries by the government and all the relevant regulatory agencies I find. Heck I might even have to get a lawyer if we part on bad terms, I'd to do that. Why not pay me now instead of wasting all that precious time?"
If they try to make you sign something before you leave, you almost have to insist that you show it to an intellectual property lawyer before you sign; believe me, the stakes will be too high. If they are offering your $50,000 or more, take it or leave it, to sign without a lawyer, it might be worth it.
Finally, here's an example of how I was paid to be the "dumped on" person in one job. My main responsibility was to write the user documentation telling the customer how to operate the system. For years after I left this job, I ran into people who knew I had "failed" in this. The reason I wrote no user documentation at all was that there were no specs for this system, it never got out of the design phase, there was no running software, and no one could tell me what the user screens were going to look like! When told I failed to document this system, I just smile.
http://precision-blogging.blogspot.com/