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How to Leave a Job on Good Terms?

Posted by timothy on from the grass-is-greener-yonder dept.

An anonymous reader writes "I've been working for a small development company for 6 or 7 years. My boss has always been a bit nuts but overall it hasn't been a bad experience. I recently accepted a great job offer for a technology position in a different industry. I gave my boss my notice this week, and while he initially was understanding, he has since starting making accusations of conspiracy, deceit, and has otherwise attempted to make me look bad in front of employees and long-time clients. (who, thankfully, also think he is nuts) I don't like to burn bridges, but I'm pretty sure he's already burned it to the ground, even threatening to withhold my final paycheck if I don't find a replacement before I leave. Is it worth sticking out the few weeks I already told him I worked, or should I just cut my losses and leave early?"

20 of 755 comments (clear)

  1. My two cents... by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful



    My boss has always been a bit nuts...


    Been there...I sympathize.

    ...while he initially was understanding, he has since starting making accusations of conspiracy, deceit, and has otherwise attempted to make me look bad in front of employees and long-time clients.


    There is no excuse for this sort of behavior. Period. Next time he tries to do it, confront him. Remember, at this point, he needs you a lot more than you need him.


    I don't like to burn bridges, but I'm pretty sure he's already burned it to the ground, even threatening to withhold my final paycheck if I don't find a replacement before I leave.


    You know, strictly speaking, it is his responsibility to find a replacement for your position, not yours. You should remind him of this in no uncertain terms.


    Is it worth sticking out the few weeks I already told him I worked or should I just cut my losses and leave early?"


    Just remember that giving a company notice before you leave is not a requirement...it is a courtesy you are extending as part of a positive professional relationship. Frankly, I'd ask him for a letter of recommendation up front, and if he refuses, or threatens to give you a less than optimal review, you simply do not owe him the courtesy of notice.



    In short, don't devalue yourself, and don't let him devalue you, either.




    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:My two cents... by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 5, Informative

      ...while he initially was understanding, he has since starting making accusations of conspiracy, deceit, and has otherwise attempted to make me look bad in front of employees and long-time clients.

      There is no excuse for this sort of behavior. Period. Next time he tries to do it, confront him. Remember, at this point, he needs you a lot more than you need him.

      Speaking from a point of view of someone who spent years working with people in therapy, it sounds like this person has some issues that go deeper than the anger and frustration most people deal with. While I would normally advocate standing up for yourself (which isn't necessarily a confrontation), that fact that you start by saying he's always been a little nuts makes me suspect any confrontation will blow up.

      In simple terms, it sounds like he's in denial over what's going on and blames you. In his mind, he probably already sees you as disloyal and even out to get him. This is not a reasonable view, but everything you say fits with that possibility. If that is so, anything you do will be viewed as an attack, and only add fuel to his fire of hate. So if you confront him, there's a chance he could blow up, start calling you names, or just walking away, then burning you in some other way.

      Only you can decide what is and is not important to you. At this point, he's made it clear he considers it okay to withhold your paycheck. I can't tell if it's a bluff, or if he's serious (from what little we have here), but be aware that he is likely holding it hostage. Normally a boss thinks he has control becasue he can fire someone or stop paying them. With only a short time left, he feels he can no longer control you, so he's using that paycheck as his way to make sure you stay in line.

      While it sounds lame, you might be best to try to difuse the situations with humor -- just not at his expense. Or, if he trashes you in front of a crowd of employees or clients, and you feel a need to stick up for yourself, you can always say something like, "He's been treating me that way ever since I turned in my notice,' and try to make it into a joke. He won't take it well, though.

    2. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd also add that it might be a good idea to send letters/emails of appreciation to your co-workers and the clients of your company. Don't say anything negative AT ALL in the letter, focus only on the positives you believe you have experienced in the company. Go over your reasons for making the job change(don't mention money, focus on the positive opportunities you see yourself as having at the new company) and express your heartfelt gratitude for having gotten to work with and gotten to know such excellent people. Make sure everyone you have more than a "hi/bye" interaction with gets a copy. Including your boss.

      This way, no matter what he says, people get to hear from you your reasons and get to hear from you the positive experiences you're taking away from the position. This will foster "warm fuzzy feelings" among many who might only ever hear "his side".

      Let me stress, don't be negative in that letter/email at all. It is imperative that you not be negative at all.

    3. Re:My two cents... by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OK...let me be a little clearer here. I never advocated that the writer challenge the manager's sanity. In fact, personal attacks like this will most certainly only make the situation immeasurably worse.

      Maybe not, but it all depends on how the boss perceives it. For example, soon after I left teaching in treatment programs, I worked as a property manager for someone in serious need of therapy. He was an alcoholic in denial, as well as gay and in denial (he had relationships, but went to absurd lengths to hide them -- it would have been comical if this person wasn't so sick). One time a property owner called up, asking me a ton of questions about a problem with one of his properties we managed. It turned out later that the problem was caused because my boss (the drunk) had not done his job. I didn't know that at the time, so when the boss (who was in the room listening) didn't hear me take full blame for everything immediately, once I hung up, he started yelling at me, saying I screwed up and was blaming him -- and that I was out to get him and his job.

      If you want to analyze it, he knew he screwed up, but couldn't accept it, so since he "knew" it was his fault, even without me knowing it -- or accusing, or anything, in his eyes, since I did not just roll over and take it, he assumed I knew it was him, and was trying to blame him. To you and I, it doesn't make sense, but to him, it did.

      I'm not trying to argue with you, but I am pointing out that there is enough to make me (a former pro in dealing with people who need treatment) suspect there is a problem with this boss. What you and I see as a challenge, the boss very likely will see as an attack. It doesn't have to be an attack, it doesn't have to look like one -- all it takes to set a person like this off is for him, in his twisted mind, to see it as an attack. I've seen many people in treatment (or in need of treatment) who have lied through their teeth, and all it took was one person even vaguely suggesting one of their lies was not 100% correct to set that person off.

      Yes, he's making false accusations, but in the post, the writer made it clear the clients and employees knew the boss was nuts. If he can gracefully difuse the situation, and continue to act with integrity, none of them will have any question who is professional and trustworthy. Don't act under the assumption that because someone is calling names, those names reflect at all on the "callee". More than anything, and this seems especially true in this case, they make the boss look unreasonable and unprofessional, and as long as the person being insulted acts with dignity and integrity, he will look better (especially in the long run) by not attacking.

      It's like if a kid attacks you -- if you deck him, you look terrible. If you maintain your dignity and do as little as possible to fend him off, you look much better. That's because we all know the kid is at a disadvantage, and here it seems quite obvious the boss is like a kid -- at least emotionally.

      Normally I would agree with you, but this boss seems unstable, and with such a person, as I said (and it bears repeating), something that, to you and I, seems not only reasonable but also appropriate could be perceived as an attack by him -- especially if it comes anywhere near threatening his twisted perception of reality.

    4. Re:My two cents... by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is only one of MANY posts about the last paycheck. Some go so far as to say sue him. Some say talk to HR, but the company might be so small the boss might own it.

      Since the boss is emotionally unstable (I mentioned that earlier in this thread), it might be unwise to mention anything about the check ahead of time. Go by to pick it up at the regular time, as you always would, as if nothing were wrong. If it's not there, ask him about it. If he tries holding it back, then it is time to take action. You're best off being understated. Just shrug and say, "Okay, I'll take it up with the Labor Board, under section xxx" (if you can cite a section, that might help).

      If there is an HR department, go there first, if not, or after HR, then go to the state (or other appropriate authority) and file a complaint. Make sure you have a copy of the letter or form. It might help to show it to the boss, and that may be all you need, but if he is volitile, just stay away and wait until the authorities handle it.

      If he "officially" tells you ahead of time he's withholding it (instead of just threatening), ask him why and see if you can get it in writing. In either case, document it clearly, write up a letter to complain to either HR or the labor board, and, on the last day, bring it up before you leave. Again, be understated, but know that you WILL get the check, it's just a question of when and whether he gives it to you or has to deal with HR or the authorities. Don't be cocky, just sure. If necessary, tell him what you've been told by HR or the labor board. Don't be a know it all, but say just enough to let him know you have resources.

      Now, on the other hand, if at any time in this process he starts to act unstable, GET OUT. Your goal should be to get the check, not to confront him, piss him off, or prove to him you're right. If you can keep your ego out of this, you'll do great. If you let your ego lead you, you'll end up in a blow out with him, and it'll make it even harder to get the check.

  2. Solicitor's advice , not slashdot's! by norfolkboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This sounds legally dubious.

    You need the advice of a solictor. Especially if he is withholding pay, and damaging your reputation.

  3. We all understand... by MoonFacedAssassin · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The main question you have to ask yourself is "Do I need this job experience on my resume?" If you are compelled to answer yes, then your best bet is to leave as cordially as possible, but explain to any other interviewer, if necessary, that you left to pursue an advancement of your career and your supervisor resented it. I say "if necessary" because there's no point conveying that if the interviewer doesn't contact them for reference. Granted, it's tough to find out whether or not they will be contacting them.

    Most sane and mature employers understand that as long as you give them notice of the termination of employment that the burden of employee replacement is on the employer, not you. The fact that your current employer is doing this proves how immature he is. Withholding the last paycheck may be something stipulated in documents you signed at the beginning of employment so you may want to look those over.

    I have had previous employers that I have had issues with personally, but tried my best not to burn the bridge myself. If they had burned the bridge, I would definitely talk to their boss about this. If they didn't have a boss above them then I would gladly have had choice words for them. It's all a judgement call, but if you need this on your resume, definitely don't burn the bridge yourself.

    --
    I am a meat popsicle.
  4. He may be in violation of the law by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have no good advice for your general situation, other than this:

    1) offer to go quietly immediately, and offer to stay for a reasonable period of time - 2 weeks after your initial notice is reasonable - and let him make the choice.
    2) if he lets you go today, don't expect to get paid for time not worked.

    If he actually withholds your final paycheck, take it up with human resources, his supervisor, or if necessary, someone higher up. What he is doing is most likely illegal. If necessary, remind him of his legal obligations and that the next step will be the court system, civil AND if applicable, criminal court. Don't threaten legal action unless all else fails, that will burn all bridges.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  5. Easy Answer by DanielMarkham · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been there, done that.

    Had a couple bosses (especially, for some reason, small development and start-up companies) that lost it.

    The easy answer is: do the right thing. You did the right thing by giving notice, you did the right thing by hanging in there. Go in to work each day and be the best you can. Help hand off the codebase. Give the best training you can to the others.

    The more you do the right thing and your boss acts like an idiot, the better you are doing. Do the right thing and let the rest slide.

    In both of my cases, the old boss felt sorry for acting the way he did. (But this took several months) People get upset when they don't know what to do. Sometimes they act very poorly. My advice is to be a bigger person than that.

  6. Re:Don't publically call your boss 'nuts' by Fyz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, I did submit as an anonymous reader...

    Whoops.

  7. Use Google! by CypherXero · · Score: 5, Funny

    You could have risked it and put in your name, his name, and the company's name. Then, wait about a week or so, and then tell him to search Google for either of those 3 terms, and watch his face in horror as the number one result is a bunch of geeks are talking about kicking him in the nuts.

  8. Act in a professional manner by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously - don't sink to his level, make threats or do anything unethical - he will just use it against you.

    Keep records of anything they accuse you of and what you are doing your last few weeks.

    If, after you leave they try to withhold your last paycheck just file a complaint with your state deptartment of employment. Every state I am familiar with has strict laws about requiring that you get paid for time worked. The state I work in has a law stating that the only reason an employer can withhold wages is if there is a court order in place.

    Later, if you feel that your former employer is trying to do something to damage your reputation, talk to a lawyer. This sort of slander is viewed very dimly in the courts.

  9. Re:Withholding pay by Apotsy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Exactly. You wouldn't believe how many stories along these lines I've heard from people. The victims are usually young, naive, and working retail. In nearly every case, the person does nothing because they don't know their rights. They just bitch about it to their friends.

    In most cases, merely threatening to call the labor board will scare an employer into complying with the law. If it doesn't, then proceed with the actual call to the labor board, and for good measure call an employment attorney as well. And don't whine that you can't afford one -- you can always find one who will consult with you for FREE. Just call the local bar association for a referral. (And no, a free consultation does not mean the lawyer is shady/crappy; it's a standard part of their services.)

    It's a LOT harder for employers to screw you over when you know your rights AND take steps to see that they are enforced.

    --
    Free Hans!
  10. Re:And now: My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    > If you can't stand it, just walk out.

    Fuck that.

    Next time he gives you some lip, you make your move. Prepare your revenge by eating nothing but Taco Bell, bran muffins, and cheap whiskey for the next three days. Then you wait until you're in the next board meeting and someone asks if there are any comments. Jump up on the table and say "Yeah! I got a comment!" Then you whip your cock out and smack him in the face with it. He'll freeze out of shock, and while he's standing there bugeyed 'cause he's just been cockslapped you whirl around and go all Tubgirl on him! With any luck he'll slip in the poo and fall down, and finding himself face down in a steaming puddle of whiskey-poo he'll most likely hurl like a 90-pound freshman cheerleader at her first frat kegger. The combined smell of poo and hurl should cause a chain reaction around the boadroom as the entire staff voids their stomachs and bowels in a cataclysmic emetic eruption of Biblical proportions. While everyone's flailing around in a growing lake of filth, you slip out the side window.

    As the coup de grace, you run to his house and tell his wife he's been busted for child pornography. She'll run screaming to her mother, which will leave you unfettered in his home. Get his daughter *and* the dog pregnant, burn down the house, and create a huge upside-down pentagram on his front lawn in weed killer.

    "Just walk out?"

    Feh.

    That's not the kind of talk that got us through Guadalcanal, you know?

  11. Re:And now: My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The parent post was childish, offensive, and disgusting.


    Mod parent UP, baby!!! Yeah!!!

  12. Re:Can't withhold pay by sfriedrich · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Honor your committment but expect nothing in return.

    Old fart story to follow --

    I was working for a -very- small company when I got hired by Apple in '86. I gave them 2 weeks notice and told them that I wanted to make sure that we had a good transition. The next morning I got a phone call from the boss and was told not to come in that day and, "oh, by the way; your last paycheck has been cancelled". Wow, I was a young father and the loss of even a single paycheck was deeply painful to my family.

    I'll never forget the advice that the Apple recruiter (John Boring) gave me when I related the story to him; "Yes, you -can- take this to the labor board and you -will- win... however, you can spend your career looking forward or looking backward... it's up to you where to concentrate." I took his advice, forgot about the offense and the past and had a -GREAT- career at Apple and afterwards. I'd advise you to do the same.

  13. Re:And now: My two cents... by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Since he's acting so irresponsibly, there's no reason to stay:
    1. Document it (use one of those mini-mp3 players with the built-in mic)
    2. Quit, and let him know why you're quiting, and that as far as yuo're concerned, his actions are harrassment and constructive dismissal
    3. Demand 5 weeks pay in lieu of severance (1 week per year). If you don't get it, sue
    And before everyone starts whining about how you can't record a conversation without the other persons' consent - YOU'RE NOT ON THE PHONE!
  14. Re:And now: My two cents... by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 5, Funny

    No, much better would be to FIND him a replacement. Surely you know someone who's even a bigger pyscho asshole as your boss. Hire him.

    With a little luck, they will kill each other.

    Other choices:

    - Really Smelly Homeless Guy
    - Seriously, Seriously Flaming Gay Guy (best if boss is a homophobe)
    - One of those guys who is SUPER nice, but a TOTAL fuck-up (they are very hard to fire)

    Use your imagination.

  15. OT: fingers by dubl-u · · Score: 5, Funny

    What shocks me is that people always forget the old addage that when there's one finger point at something, there are four fingers pointing back at the person pointing.

    Try as I might, I can get at most three fingers pointing back at me. Am I doing it wrong?

  16. Re:And now: My two cents... by cnoocy · · Score: 5, Funny

    I knew that Wil Wheaton was a Slashdot reader. I must admit I'm surprised to see that Jason Mewes is. Welcome to Slashdot, Jay!

    --
    This sig is not the Zahir. Lucky for you.