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NASA's Plans for the Future

FleaPlus writes "ABC News, Pasadena Star-News, and Space Politics report on a recent statement by NASA chief Michael Griffin on NASA's plans for the future and how it will be reflected in their annual budget. Griffin has ordered preparations for one last shuttle servicing mission to the Hubble Space Telescope. He also plans to greatly accelerate development of the Crew Exploration Vehicle to have it ready when the Space Shuttles retire in 2010, stating that the CEV 'needs to be safe, it needs to be simple, it needs to be soon.' Some other highlights include $34 million for the Centennial Challenges prize program and the possibility of completing the space station with unmanned rockets after the shuttles retire. However, due to budget limitations, the cost of returning the Space Shuttles to flight, and over $400 million in Congressional earmarks, a number of other areas will see delays, including space station, aeronautics, and exploration research. NASA also plans on restructuring Project Prometheus to focus on developing space-qualified nuclear power systems for use in human and robotic surface operations, instead of a probe to Jupiter's moons." The Washington Post has a look at NASA's future as well.

20 of 219 comments (clear)

  1. Nukes are the way to go by ghoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Chemical rockets are just not cost efficient enough.
    also people are studying nuclear engineering all around the world . its better these people are kept busy designing power plants for on earth and off earth applications than nuclear bombs. Just my opinion.

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
    1. Re:Nukes are the way to go by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Chemical rockets also have a limited practical top speed, research into nuclear propulsion is definately required if we are to make travel to the outer reaches of the solar system a regular occurance without waiting years for the results (how long did Cassini take to reach Saturn? How much more science can be done if we launch a probe a year and they get their within 6 months?)

    2. Re:Nukes are the way to go by sznupi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My opinion is that the ones working on it should coin a name NOT including the word "nuclear". The public is so brainwashed on the matter that whenever they hear ir red lamp in their mind turns on :/

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    3. Re:Nukes are the way to go by ghoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thats true. The conventional bombing raids killed far more and destryed much more property than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki fircrackers(relatively speaking) Also a lot more people died in the Bhopal Gas leak in India from a fertilizer factory than from Chernobyl but people are shit scared of Nuclear plants. I think its a kind of hysteria created by the nuclear powers to scare the non nuclear powers. Frankly I think nuclear weapons are overrated. They are really useless for war as when used they irradiate the territory so you can make no use of the territory. Thats only marginally better than the enemy holding the territory. Wars will continue to be fought with conventional weapons. Only terrorists would ever think of using nukes (Hmm wonder what that says about Truman)
      Nuclear power is on the other hand the road to freedom from oil dependence as well as the key to space. Take the example of a country like India which imports 70% of its oil. If even 40% which is used in power plants is replaced by nuclear power India would become a developed country instead of a developing one. Witness the French. As most of their electricity is nuclear generated they are not hostage to oil and dont need to get sucked into the middle-east. This gives them the advantage of taking the moral viewpoint on these issues instead of the national security viewpoint. People blame the neocons for starting the Iraq war but given the state of the US economy there really was no other option than to get control of some oil reserves. The same liberals who blast Bush about going to war in Iraq are the one shouting NAMBY when nuclear power is discussed

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    4. Re:Nukes are the way to go by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why are the timetables inconveniant? Surely instead of sending off what are essentially one off probes that cost many millions each time, it would be more cost effective to develop a cheap adaptable frame, with a set propulsion method, a set guidance system, and custom packages on board. Send off one every 6months to a year, have them get there within 6months, that way you know there and then if your probe has failed for whatever reason, theres no waiting around 8 years just for the probe to fail as it unfurles an antenna or whatever?

      Space exploration should be cheap, disposable, mass produced probes, the space equivilent of sonar bouys or weather balloons. We should be able to say 'Hmm, we need a closer look at titan, this pictures a bit blurry', and dispatch a probe with hardly a second thought of the matter. We should be able to pull a probe out of storage when we need one, rather than wait years for the damn thing to be built. There should be a base standard for scientific packages to interface with the probe itself.

      Probes should be customised after they are pulled out of storage, not one offs.

    5. Re:Nukes are the way to go by thermopile · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Similar to a comment posted above by Matt Edd ...

      As currently designed, nuclear engines in no way enable faster travel to the outer planets. They just allow a lot of energy packed into a small space.

      Voyagers 1 and 2 made the trip to Jupiter in a handy two years. Galileo did it in a little over 3. Cassini took about 4.5 years to get to Jupiter.

      As planned now, the Prometheus reactor, if one is ever sent to Jupiter, is not allowed to use gravity assists. This means it will take about 8 to 9 years given current ion propulsion thrusts to get it to Jupiter. Using a nuclear reactor to provide high voltages to spew xenon out the back end does not provide a whole lot of thrust, but it sure can be efficient.

      The biggest advantage of putting nuclear reactors in space is the availability of lots of power on station for a fairly long period of time. It enables things like high-gain antennas, wide aperture arrays for surface mapping, or who knows what else -- if you build it, they will come. Give a scientist 200 kW (electric) to play with on Europa, I'm sure he'll find a good use for it.

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      "Diplomacy is something you do until you find a rock." --Richard Pound

    6. Re:Nukes are the way to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      uhhhh do you even comprehend the distance these probes are traveling. Do you know the amount of fuel needed to get them there in 6 months would be to expensive and large to even launch. You talk about making them cheaper but with the amount of fuel you would send you would increase the price by a 100 fold. See it works like this:

      more speed = more fuel
      more fuel = more weight
      more weight = more money
      more weight = a ridiculus amount of money to launch

      thus to get more speed means a hell of alot more money. So it is gonna take along time to send probes great distances unless you want to spend a hell of alot more money. Thus your idea of cheap and really fast probes is not possible. THey ae either cheap and slow or fast and expensive.

    7. Re:Nukes are the way to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You said "Since a nuclear engine can run on any fluid, what more efficient method exists than pulling oxygen from the atomosphere?

      Amazingly, we already have the engine to do this. Pratt & Whitney's TRITON engine is the perfect solution.
      "

      I didn't see anywhere in that article linked where it said that the oxygen would be pulled from the atmosphere. As long as no air is sent through the reactor, there will be no problem (and in the design linked LOX is sent downstream of the reactor). Once you send air through a reactor the radiation released from the rocket will go up by orders of magnitude due to neutron activation of Ar-40 to Ar-41.

      It should be noted that just because it is tungsten clad doesn't mean that no radioactive material will be released. Very small uranium impurities very close to the edge of the cladding in the reactor will allow fission products to travel into the effluent hydrogen stream. This will not allow a significant amount of radiation released (nowhere near what a air cooled reactor would generate--around 2000 rem/hr on contact at full power not including radiation from the reactor), but it will be detectable.

  2. Man with a plan by DARKFORCE123 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Griffin sounds like a man with the kind of aggressive plans we need to make things like the shuttle replacement finally a reality and make US space efforts relevant and significant again.

    Wonder who in the US bureaucratic nightmare pool is going to put a stop to his plans ?

  3. Re:Let's get this straight. by Rakishi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why does it matter? So you get to spend a week on a largely-US funded space station for $20mil? Humanity doesn't gain anything and most people can't afford it anyway. Hell the launch costs alone are probably around $300k+ per person, and that won't go down without either a space elevator, nuclear rocket or a lot more space travel (and I mean a lot). And the only reason Russia is even sending ordinary peopel into space is because they're broke.

  4. The Real Reason Chemical Ship Can't Cut It by reallocate · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cost efficency has nothing to do with it.

    The real reason we need to use something else to move about the solar system is that chemically fueled ships can't go fast enough.

    We need to go from LEO to the Moon in well under a day, and to Mars in less than one month. Chemicals can't do that.

    Chemicals are fine for launch to LEO, and there is no particular reason, I think, to launch nuclear ships from Earth's surface. Build and use them in space.

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    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    1. Re:The Real Reason Chemical Ship Can't Cut It by grumbel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While those numbers sound truely cool, this little sentence from the Wikipedia article sounds a little less nice:

      ### There were also ethical issues with launching such a vehicle from the surface of the earth; calculations showed that between 1 and 10 people would die from each takeoff from fallout. ###

      Unless they got that problem solved you won't see those 8000000 tonns launch anytime soon.

    2. Re:The Real Reason Chemical Ship Can't Cut It by reallocate · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >> No particular reason? How about beeing able RIGHT NOW with our current technology to launch an object that weights at least 8000000 tonns?

      Well, first, because we have no current or forseeable missions that require putting 8000000 tons into LEO.

      Second, Orion is all talk. We have no way of knowing the damn thing would work as advertised.

      Third, we'd have to abrogate several treaties, including the one that bans open-air nuclear explosions. Unless a hostile alien craft the size of the Moon has passed Neptune, no President would commit political suicide by embacing that notion.

      Fourth, if you wanna use Orion, build it in orbit or on the Moon. You can't seriously be arguing that exploding hundreds of nukes in Earth's lower atmosphere is a good thing?

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      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  5. NASA Does Exploration, Not Charter Bus Services by reallocate · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because NASA is in the exploration business, not the charter bus business. My tax money should not be spent to figure out how to send fatcat millionaires on joy rides.

    Meanwhile, don't forget the Russians are doing the tourist bit because they need the money, not because they're blazing a new trail for "ordinary people".

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    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  6. Re:If America and Russia only would cooperate ... by greypilgrim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead of building an International Black Hole (ISS), the world's space faring nations should join forces and build one common launch vehicle. The combined knowledge and experience of all of these space faring nations could build a new ship far superior to the space shuttle. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, national pride on both sides will prevent this from ever happening.

  7. 3rd Shuttle Blows up: What happens to Priorities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Having worked on half a dozen Space Shuttle Safety projects for the late great Rockwell International Space Transportation Division, and found each of them dysfunctional to the point of criminal fraud; and having given testimony to the Columbia Accident Investigation Board; and having spoken at length to the NASA Inspector General's office -- when the 3rd Space Shuttle disater strikes, what happens to all these objectives?

    The CAIB gave clear direction on how to reform NASA. But their only Nobel Laureate Physicist (Feynman being long buried) gave a press conference to say that he does NOT believe that NASA can effectively change its "corporate culture."

    I've praised Mike Griffin in slashdot, but he can no more change NASA's style than Eric Raymond can change Microsoft.

    -- Professor Jonathan Vos Post

  8. Re:Going UP by Martin+Blank · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Technological issues. Unless and until someone can demonstrate carbon nanotube-based cables, even Congress won't buy into it.

    --
    You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  9. Re:Funding is a Joke by Buckaroo+Bonzai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You need to supply a better business plan on the profit there bud. I think you are suffering from the "Field of Dreams" syndrome -- 'If you build it, they will come.' Doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

  10. Re:They could do worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Actually as someone who has worked at JPL - NASA's unmanned missions are getting screwed (and along with it JPL) in order to make way for a mission to mars. When it comes down to it unmanned space missions produce A LOT more science and are cheaper than manned ones do, and thus it would make more sense to focus on those when the budget it tight. The opposite is happening though it seems and I really fear for the US space program because of it.

  11. Re:If America and Russia only would cooperate ... by FleaPlus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the world's space faring nations should join forces and build one common launch vehicle

    I'm sorry, but that makes about as much sense as saying that the nations of the world should join together and build one common airplane. Design by committee generally doesn't work too well, especially if the design has to be made such that it siphons an appropriate amount of money into each of the involved countries.