Cuba Switching to Linux

Tony Montana writes "According to several news sites the government of Cuba is dumping Windows in favour of Linux. Cuba's director of information technology, Roberto del Puerto, says that Cuba already has approximately 1500 computers running on Linux, and is working towards replacing Windows on all state owned computers."

Comments

Lets start counting

[__aahlyu4518]

how many people will make a comment about communism and linux....

this is 1

Re:Lets start counting

[myc_lykaon]

It is ironic that the real communists want to use GNU/Linux because it is free as in beer.

I think you'll find they are wanting to use it as it is 'free' as in 'not produced by a company in the country that has maintained a remarkably schizophrenic attitude to Cuba, attempted numerous coups and asassination attempts against the leader and is currently forcing the general populace to live below the poverty line by punitive trade embargoes all based on misplaced ideology' :).

Re:Lets start counting

[BasilBrush]

Speaking from a third party country, Britain, if you think that the US holds the moral highground over Cuba, you are sadly mistaken. For example, if my company were to trade with Cuba, maybe to import Havana cigars, then the US, who is not party to the trade, and supposedly believes in free trade has a law whereby they can apply sanctions to my company. The way America has bullied Cuba for years, simply because they disagree with it's political system is appaling. During the cold war it was understandable, especially the missile crisis. But this many years after the cold war has ended it is ridiculous.

Re:Lets start counting

[gowen]

A democratic nation, any democratic nation, will always have moral highground over a non-democratic one.

Which is why the USA chose to overthrow Democratic Socialist Allende and replace him with Fascist Dictator Pinochet, right?

Look, however much governments (US or otherwise) wish to pretend that their foreign policy is based on morality, it isn't. OK? Foreign policy is solely about protecting your national interests : in terms of finance and security, and the sooner you recognise that, the more sense you'll make of it.

It's not about good guys vs bad guys, and it's especially not about democracy vs. dictatorship. A dictator friendly to US interests (the House of Saud, for instance) is always going to treated more favourably than an unfriendly democrat (say, the President of France, or "Old Europe" as we like to call ourselves).

Re:Lets start counting

[gowen]

one that is slowly turning itself into a democratic monarchy - very much like the (gasp) British government.

Oh, do fuck off. Both the US and the UK have undemocratic and unaccountable institutions at the heart of public life. The difference is ours is almost entirely ceremonial, and yours gets to decide the outcome of elections, despite the fact that every member of the Supreme Court is a political appointee (Here's a shock : on that most important issue, they voted on party political allegiances). Here in the UK, we stick to our old fashioned ways of democracy, like actually counting the ballots.

The difference between Cuba and Saudi Arabia is that Saudi Arabia is willing to work with the US on making changes

Err. No. Don't believe the hype.

The Saudi's are still appalling violators of human rights, and the latest Amnesty International reports suggest they're not about to change. The difference between American treatment of Saudi Arabia and Cuba is based on two things :
i) Cuba is near, and the spectre of a communist boogeyman still plays well with the US electorate.
ii) Access to one of the world's largest reserves of oil is of more strategic importance than access to the world's best cigars.

Re:Lets start counting

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on, cut the hypocricy.

Fulgencio Batista was a ruthless dictator, but that was all fine and dandy with the US because he was friendly with them. Not so with Cubans, which why Castro et al managed to overthrow him starting off with only 16 people.

And in Chile, Salvadore Allende was democratically elected, yet the US helped to overthrow him because he wasn't right-wing enough for them, and so that bastard Pinochet got run run roughshod over Chile for the next few decades. And that was all okay.

And in the Dominican Republic, Rafael Trujillo ("he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch") ran a brutal dictatorship all with the help of the US. So why was he okay?

And in Nicaragua, Anastasio Somoza ran a disgraceful dictatorship all nicely sponsored by the US for decades. But once again, somehow that was okay but Sandinistas were not.

And let's not forget that good buddy of the US, Saddam Hussein, who received assloads of military equipment because it suited the interests of the US.

US history is so overrun with embarassing stuff like this it's depressing. But the worst part is that it keeps happening, and most Americans just don't seem to give a damn.

Re:Lets start counting

[GodfatherofSoul]

Hell, you don't even have to go *that* far back. During the 1st Bush term, we helped stage coups against Aristide in Haiti (sp) and Chavez in Venezuela (both democratically elected). What's so hilarious (in a depressing way) is what happened afterwards. Chavez was brought *back* into power by the people and Aristide simply said in effect "Well, if you Americans claim I left the country voluntarily, then I should be able to go back..."

Mind you I'm American, but a lot of us are complete fools scarfing down whatever propaganda our leadership feeds us. I've seen the lie become truth so often in the past few years that I've developed a completely new respect for the foresight of George Orwell. The guy looks like a damned prophet today.

whoo hoo 1500 !

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah 1500 computers !!, eat that AMIGA !!

Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba?

[shoppa]

I'm assuming that all Cuban installations of Windows are pirate copies anyway, because it's illegal for US companies to sell to Cuba (very stiff penalties).

And that children

[Timesprout]

is how the Bay of Penguins incident began...

Positive Image

[datadriven]

That's great Cuba has such a positive image. This is bound to make people switch to linux in droves.

So much for spying

[jocknerd]

How are we ever going to spy on these countries if they stop using Windows?

Great...

[ooze]

All we need is another multi billion dollar company with a reason to lobby for invading Cuba...

Re:You consider this a win?

[brontus3927]

I think it might not be a bad idea to amend the GPL to insist that no Communism or politically misaligned countries / organizations should be able to use it. This would help combat some of the negative sterotypes facing OSS.

But that is the "great" thing about the GPL and similar OSS licenses. Its free to anyone dispite ideological differences. If it wasn't, a F/OSS advocating developer could bar me from using their software because I also use non-Free software. A staunch pro-life developer of a scheduling package could bar an abotion clinic from using their software. If something is going to be free, it needs to be free, not "kinda-free, only when you agree with us"

Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba

[CommunistTroll]

If Cuba is using copies of Windows in a legal fashion under Cuban law then they are not pirate copies, even if that use would be illegal under US law.

It's up to Cuban copyright law to decide whether you should have to pay Microsoft to use copies of their software.

Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba

[ergo98]

Microsoft obviously also has distributors outside the United States, and it's perfectly legal for them to sell to Cuba.

Or even Microsoft Canada. We don't buy into the isolationist argument up here, and we don't get our knickers bent out of shape trying to "prove" that communism doesn't work but undermining Cuba at every opportunity.

Re:That's cool...

[PaxTech]

Yep, that "stability", it's a wonderful thing. Especially when it's maintained by imprisoning librarians.

But oh, I forgot, this is slashdot, where the US is a horrible fascist dicatorship and Cuba is a magical wonderland of sharing and human kindness.

Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba

[Saven Marek]

What worries me is importing what is made in cuba into the US.

What happens when cuban sysadmins start submitting patches into linux? is this not then code that is a product of cuba? that would be Illegal to bring into the USA.

which then comes into a linux used in the USA?

This worries me, as then microsoft could use this as a legal loophole to prohibit the use of Linux in the USA.

That would be a big boon for them as then they would have no competition.

Think about it. How ridiculous does it sound. Or not?

Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba

[CommunistTroll]

Property is an artificial construct of law.

Intellectual property doubly so.

Other counteries

[karvind]

I just checked back on slashdot to see what other governments are adapting Linux or Open source solutions. Pretty encouraging I would say

Australia

South Korea

Brazil

Spain

India

Vienna

French Police

Dutch

Venezuela

Germany

Re:WMDs

[daviddennis]

I've been to Cuba, and I loved going to Cuba. The people were wonderful - friendly, charming, and Cuban women surely give interested tourists the best welcome one would ever want :-).

But all I heard from citizens was gripes about the government. The "free" healthcare is worth about as much as you'd expect a dictator's promises to be worth. The capitalist things, like the taxi system, work gloriously. The hotels, being right under the government's thumb, are a model for poor service and bizarre rules. For instance, you can't take your Cuban girlfriend up to your hotel room without paying a bribe.

I read a lot of books on Cuba before I went, and it seems like people who go to Cuba with an ideological agenda are shuttled carefully to the right places, where things look shiny and new. This is a potemkin village that impresses the heck out of people who want to be impressed.

But if you go a few blocks away, you see scenes like I did. All these pictures were taken on what would be prime real estate in any other country, a block or less from the Malecon, the giant seawall that faces the ocean and is a major gathering spot for Cubans.

Cubans live in their decrepit and dangerous housing until it collapses, because if they maintained it the government would take it over and give it to someone else. No joke, sadly.

To put this slightly on topic, Cubans are generally not allowed to use the Internet, at least not at prices Cubans can afford. The Internet connections in the tourist hotels are closed to Cubans; only non-Cubans can use them. This is part of an effort to keep tourists on the busses and away from contact with the Cuban people.

The Cuban computers I saw were woefully out of date, with truly ancient versions of Windows on display. If my memory serves it was mainly Windows98, and I went in December 2002. So I doubt that this mandate from Castro will have that much effect. It's probably a propaganda effort to make Slashdotters look at his rule more favourably.

Even open source tyranny is still tyranny.

Alas.

D

I am just curious to know...

[cnelzie]

...how an American Company is able to do business that results in benefits to Cuba.

Microsoft is an American corporation, it isn't legally allowed to profit from or provide goods or services that are shipped to Cuba. If I am understanding the US Trade Embargo correctly...

Re:I am just curious to know...

[Filip22012005]

Isn't it a win-lin situation?

Re:That's cool...

[elrous0]

Yep, that "stability", it's a wonderful thing. Especially when it's maintained by imprisoning librarians.

And maybe you should keep in mind that a lot of these "innocent" dissendents that are being arrested were or are actively plotting to overthrow the Cuban govenment, or even the assasination of Castro. Look at that shady CIA Posada character that's here in the U.S. now for a great example of one of those "innocent" dissidents.

I suppose you think the U.S. government wouldn't arrest people plotting the overthrow of the government or the assasination of the president?

-Eric

Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts

[thelizman]

America is pretty much the only country not trading with Cuba directly. In spite of that, millions in US currency flow into Cuba every month through indirect routes, including the sizable Cuban population who fled to the US for love of freedom. Overall, Cuba has a national GDP of $33.92 billion, which gives them a far better per-capita than most other countries with similar poverty levels.

The reality simply is that Cuba is run by a corrupt and incompetant military dictator whose only prior qualification was being a spoiled rich kid and lawyer. The complete mismanagement of the economy by his everlasting regime led to scarcity, and the spoils system inherent in any communist regime has led to a disparity whereby most Cubans live in abject poverty, but the priveledged few live in opulant comfort.

Cuba is not even a good example of how a communist ought to be run, but it is an excellent example of how communist governments eventually are run.

Re:Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever BEEN to Cuba? Oh wait, you're American.. never mind... Cuba may be Communist, but did you ever stop to think that Castro and Gueverra (sp) freed the Cubans from a much worse dictator (Batista) I've spent some time in Cuba (Canadians are allowed to travel wherever we want, ahh freedom!) And the people there are doing quite well thank you very much.

Re:Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts

[Quantum Fizz]

When have you ever visited Cuba, and how do you claim that you know the 'reality'?

Castro was a rich kid and lawyer, but he only took from that his education, if you knew anything about the revolution you'd know he lived in poverty in the revolutionary camps out in the boonies. You'd also know that the rich folks like his family tended to support the corrupt Batista regime, and that Castro had the courage to fight against the inequality, while nearly ALL other rich families supported Batista.

You complain about the average Cuban living in poverty but you miss the following - ALL Cubans have access to government-issued food, education, and medical care. That's EVERYBODY, from the chauffer who drives Castro around to a dentist in Havana to a farmer in la Isla de Juventud.

You also complain about poverty but neglect to mention 90% of that poverty is due to the trade embargo by the USA. Cuba is a third-world country, that is definitely true. Now if you look at its income and compare to other countries of similar income you'll see that Cuba is far far ahead of other countries. Many residents of Latin America admire Castro for what he has done for Cuba, especially in light of all the aggression the USA has against them.

Re:Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts

[orzetto]

I was in Cuba in I think 1992, in the middle of the periodo especial, when western press reported of continuous power outages, no running water, oppressive policing. We (me and dad) were in a group of 8 tourists, and there was no VIP among us, so no chance they were polishing the country for us (though the tour guides obviously did not bring us to the worst conceivable places).

Facts observed:

1. Havana was lit at night, all night long. No power outages observed in the non-hotel neighborhood.
2. Everybody looked decently cared for, no limos around but there were no starving people as the ones my father had seen in Romania in 1988 (And before you jump: Ceausescu was the most US-friendly East-block leader, there are even pictures of him with Mickey Mouse and such propaganda crap).
3. People were short on two things: soap and chewing gum.
4. The most invasive action of policing we witnessed was a policeman picking up empty bottles and putting them in the garbage bin from the street after a late-night street party organised by the locals in Havana. You read "a policeman picking up empty bottles".
5. I've been to NY last November. Do I have to tell you all where I saw the most striking poverty, in Manhattan or in Pinar del Rio? And don't jump saying "but here we are on average richer", I know that, that's actually my point. With all that wealth, no one seems to want to get rid of poverty, a feat well within range of the American economy.

Is Cuba a place that had the same leader for too long time? Granted. Is Cuba a place that has a low GNP, much lower than the US'? Granted too. Were the kangaroo trials on three men who tried to hijack a boat to the US and a few days later got executed a shame? Sure bet. Would Cuba be better off with socialism out and market economy in? I say, look at Haiti.

Lesson learnt: if it's about a country your country does not like, for any reason do not trust the information you get. No matter which country is yours and which the other. Either go and check for yourself, or simply guard your doubts.

Re:FUC#ING LIAR!!!

[Rei]

I know you're a troll, but I'll bite.

Cuba had the lowest malnutrition rate in Latin America from 1979-1992, before the US intensified sanctions. Its estimated number of malnourished as of the report date (2000) was 1.8 million, i.e. ~5%. This is almost completely due to the increased embargo; not being able to buy from the US (its nearest potential supplier) increases costs by about 30%; caloric intake during the time dropped 38%. Even still, for comparison, about 30 million Mexicans (~%28) are malnourished. Who is crying them a river?

As for your "ex-cuban" relatives, you are staring in the face the classic example of "selection bias". If they weren't anti-castro/anti-communist, they wouldn't have fled to the US, now would they?