Slashdot Mirror
Cuba Switching to Linux
Tony Montana writes "According to several news sites the government of Cuba is dumping Windows in favour of Linux. Cuba's director of information technology, Roberto del Puerto, says that Cuba already has approximately 1500 computers running on Linux, and is working towards replacing Windows on all state owned computers."
how many people will make a comment about communism and linux....
this is 1
yeah 1500 computers !!, eat that AMIGA !!
I'm assuming that all Cuban installations of Windows are pirate copies anyway, because it's illegal for US companies to sell to Cuba (very stiff penalties).
is how the Bay of Penguins incident began...
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
In communist Cuba Linux switches you! Oh my ...
I think this snippet sums up a lot of the recent Linux "migration" stories:
Which is sad, since I've had a fairly painless transition to Linux a few years ago. Given the state of WINE these days, there's very little that a Linux-only box can't do that a Wintel box can.
That's great Cuba has such a positive image. This is bound to make people switch to linux in droves.
GETPKG - Package Management for Slackware
Can I get my Che Tux Revolution TShirt signed by Fidel?
Man, not only do the illegals have to deal with never speaking the language when they boat over, but now they will have the deal with not being able to use the computers that are here either.
Quid Pro Quo, nothing more, nothing less.
How are we ever going to spy on these countries if they stop using Windows?
All we need is another multi billion dollar company with a reason to lobby for invading Cuba...
Just because I can imagine doing a hippopotamus, doesn't mean I'd like to do it.
Who? Cuba? Cuba has about as many WMD as Iraq did.
How does the government having sole control over an industry make it any less of a monopoly?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
I submitted it here as a YRO story, but it was deemed less relevant to Your Rights Online than Darl McBride's new open letter in response to Groklaw's new open letter to Darl McBride.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I remember sitting in an internet cafe at a resort in Cuba, wondering why they didn't use linux. Now maybe they will. My personal anecdote aside, I look forward to the day when it will hurt the US not to deal with Cuba; given its current popularity among European and Canadian travellers, I think it is coming. Cuba is still stable, and, indeed, has outlasted the Soviet Union.
But that is the "great" thing about the GPL and similar OSS licenses. Its free to anyone dispite ideological differences. If it wasn't, a F/OSS advocating developer could bar me from using their software because I also use non-Free software. A staunch pro-life developer of a scheduling package could bar an abotion clinic from using their software. If something is going to be free, it needs to be free, not "kinda-free, only when you agree with us"
Free MacMini
It's up to Cuban copyright law to decide whether you should have to pay Microsoft to use copies of their software.
This has got me thinkning. If Cuba is switching to Linux, there is a greater possibility that North Korea uses or will switch to Linux too. This is actually good because imagine at some super secret North Korea nuclear missile silo, some Windows box displays: "A fatal exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C0011E36 in VXD VMM(01)+00010E36. The current application, 'missiles standby', will be terminated." So actually, there IS a reason they call it the blue screen of DEATH.
Even if they can, Cuba has loved linux for a while - obviously, even if they can they don't want to depend from USA technology. Infomed, for one (the national healtcare information sharing or whatever you english people call it) is based in linux at least
Microsoft obviously also has distributors outside the United States, and it's perfectly legal for them to sell to Cuba.
Or even Microsoft Canada. We don't buy into the isolationist argument up here, and we don't get our knickers bent out of shape trying to "prove" that communism doesn't work but undermining Cuba at every opportunity.
What worries me is importing what is made in cuba into the US.
What happens when cuban sysadmins start submitting patches into linux? is this not then code that is a product of cuba? that would be Illegal to bring into the USA.
which then comes into a linux used in the USA?
This worries me, as then microsoft could use this as a legal loophole to prohibit the use of Linux in the USA.
That would be a big boon for them as then they would have no competition.
Think about it. How ridiculous does it sound. Or not?
Intellectual property doubly so.
Australia
South Korea
Brazil
Spain
India
Vienna
French Police
Dutch
Venezuela
Germany
Unfortunately, that's bollocks. If Cuban law states that "you need not ask permission or pay anything before using software written by someone else" then it is no longer up to Microsoft. Not in Cuba anyway.
Remember, rights are not universal; they're granted at the discretion of the country in question, however much we might wish it otherwise.
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
You could add the US to the top of that list, pal.
What's worse: a country openly proclaiming communism, or one that espouses freedom -- all the while attempting to deny it's own citizens the right to freely travel and increasing surveillance in the name of "fighting terror". Oh, and not to mention all of the "detainees" held in Gitmo. These folks, while probably a bad lot, are being held without being charged with a crime, denied access to legal representation, and in some cases have had thier HUMAN RIGHTS violated. This is the kind of shit that I used to bring up about Cuba and China.
God save the US. God Damn the current US regime.
I've been to Cuba, and I loved going to Cuba. The people were wonderful - friendly, charming, and Cuban women surely give interested tourists the best welcome one would ever want :-).
But all I heard from citizens was gripes about the government. The "free" healthcare is worth about as much as you'd expect a dictator's promises to be worth. The capitalist things, like the taxi system, work gloriously. The hotels, being right under the government's thumb, are a model for poor service and bizarre rules. For instance, you can't take your Cuban girlfriend up to your hotel room without paying a bribe.
I read a lot of books on Cuba before I went, and it seems like people who go to Cuba with an ideological agenda are shuttled carefully to the right places, where things look shiny and new. This is a potemkin village that impresses the heck out of people who want to be impressed.
But if you go a few blocks away, you see scenes like I did. All these pictures were taken on what would be prime real estate in any other country, a block or less from the Malecon, the giant seawall that faces the ocean and is a major gathering spot for Cubans.
Cubans live in their decrepit and dangerous housing until it collapses, because if they maintained it the government would take it over and give it to someone else. No joke, sadly.
To put this slightly on topic, Cubans are generally not allowed to use the Internet, at least not at prices Cubans can afford. The Internet connections in the tourist hotels are closed to Cubans; only non-Cubans can use them. This is part of an effort to keep tourists on the busses and away from contact with the Cuban people.
The Cuban computers I saw were woefully out of date, with truly ancient versions of Windows on display. If my memory serves it was mainly Windows98, and I went in December 2002. So I doubt that this mandate from Castro will have that much effect. It's probably a propaganda effort to make Slashdotters look at his rule more favourably.
Even open source tyranny is still tyranny.
Alas.
D
I wish I had some mod points for you. If you ever read a real estate appraisal, they implicitly acknowledge that you don't really "own" property. Rather, you own certain "rights" to property, ie fee simple, leasehold, tenant-in-common, etc.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
%windowscd%\win98\precopy2.cab\license.txt ...
7. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. If this EULA is not labeled and the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is not identified as "North America Only Version" above, on the Product Identification Card, or on the SOFTWARE PRODUCT packaging or other written materials, then the following terms apply: You agree that you will not export or re-export the SOFTWARE PRODUCT to any country, person, or entity subject to U.S. export restrictions. You specifically agree not to export or re-export the SOFTWARE PRODUCT: (i) to any country to which the U.S. has embargoed or restricted the export of goods or services, which as of March 1999 include, but are not necessarily limited to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria, or to any national of any such country, wherever located, who intends to transmit or transport the SOFTWARE PRODUCT back to such country; (ii) to any person or entity who you know or have reason to know will utilize the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or portion thereof in the design, development or production of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons; or (iii) to any person or entity who has been prohibited from participating in U.S. export transactions by any federal agency of the U.S. government. You warrant and represent that neither the BXA (as defined below) nor any other U.S. federal agency has suspended, revoked or denied your export privileges.
The latest Slashdot meme.
Microsoft is an American corporation, it isn't legally allowed to profit from or provide goods or services that are shipped to Cuba. If I am understanding the US Trade Embargo correctly...
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
I think you forget that the software is Microsoft's property. It's up to Microsoft to determine the terms under which it's willing to allow the use of its software in Cuba. Cuba has no right to declare that it can use the software without compensation.
If Cuba isn't a signatory to the international copyright convention, then Cuba has every right to do whatever it wants with Microsoft products.
However, it seems it is a member of the WIPO, so I suspect it is legally bound to recognize Microsoft's copyright.
Thanks to Google (who will only be around for a brief while to help us with this stuff...):
Third-world countries...
This are one more of the migrations than they will occur on the part of the third-world Latinoamericános countries (desire not to be contemptuous, since I am of Mexico).
This migration of Windows towards Linux in these countries (on the part of the GOVERNMENT) will occur for several reasons, first, because the countries will wish to spend less// in software, or símplemente to obtain _ more value by its money _ (as for me I believe that that is Linux, since although the TCO is equal or superior, long term Linux offers better valos than any propietary platform).
On the other hand, the governments also will wish to separate of Windows since is a fastening towards the American government (you do not have that Word do you), although Microsoft is directly not bound to the government, indiréctamente having licenses of software of this company promuebe the economic dependency of the country towards the United States.
Finally, the governments will begin to use Free Software within their systems by the nature of the same one, that is to say, the capital inverted in Free Software is a capital that goes (or can go diréctamente) towards the people who develop software and also the generated technologies disposition of ALL the citizens has left directly. Thus, a government can contribute bottoms for the development of some product that consider necessary (simpelemente to way of/bounty/) and see obtain the necessary programs.
This last one is plus a reason that I have thought. As citizen I would prefer that my taxes were used to subsidize Free Software instead of subsidizing to a Estadounidense company. And it is precise to indicate that between the Latin American citizens there is a resentment towards the government North American at issue economic (good... and in other questions who do not come to the subject).
As for me, it seems to me excellent that Cuba is optador by Linux, although like other people have written, in Cuba was not possible "To buy" Windows, but I am sure that the use of Linux in Cuba will generate a strong aid to the development of the same software, since Cuba has people and minds very, very able.
In addition, I must express that I would like much that my country (Mexico) followed the same route, although desafortunádamente Miguel de Icaza did not know to raise the situation (E-Mexico) arguing for the Costs like the advantage of Linux on the propietary software.
That is everything, I hope that it does not bother my commentary to them in Spanish, but, I considered pertienente.
The free as in speach surely doesn't appeal to Fidelito.
Its funny listening to Americans comment on a country that the vast majority have never been to. Not to mention countries that they are not free to visit should they want to.
Not being American, and therefor being FREE to go where I please, I can tell you that a rum and COKE is not hard to come by. Funny, I thought Coke was an American company?
Looks like the US has a much larger problem with Coke smuggling than they thought.
Haven't any of you sheeple figured it out yet, it is only illegal if you are not a giant corporation. If you have 30 employees and you trade with Cuba, look out, those Southern redneck senators will hunt you down like dogs. If you employ 30,000 employees, and pay of the douchbags on the hill, you can do as you please.
The US policies against Cuba are bad for Cuba, but great for the rest of the world. It has left a Carribean island with great weather, great beaches, great cigars, affordable accomodations and best of all, NO Americans. It's like vacation heaven. Besides, none of you would like it there. Really.
If the copies are illegal and thus MS is not profiting off of them. Nobody in Cuba should be able to run Windows Update.
If the copies are legal, then MS Windows Update should check for and disallow any Windows running PCs from Cuba to access and run updates.
I am just saying...
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
First, there's an issue of degree. There are far more ordinary people in Cuban prisons, who would not be imprisoned in any free country.
Perhaps. They jail political dissidents. We jail pot smokers. Thus, the US has the highest imprisonment rate in the world. (Or very close- we don't know North Korea's) Cuba's not even in the top ten.
Second, I wasn't defending the US, I was pointing out that Cuba is still a very repressive place, and those who want to pretend that everything's cool and its problems should just be accepted with a wink are themselves collaborating in the repression of the Cuban people.
I'd be one of the last to defend Cuba- it's a wreck of a country due to a meglomanical dictator. The world will be a better place when Castro is worm food.
But other countries simply don't see Cuba with anywhere near the level of hatred in the US. They see us pointing fingers at Cuba's repressive practices while we're busy keeping people in legal limbo forever in our own tiny slice of Cuba.
If we had cleaner hands other countries might be more willing to listen to us about Cuba.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
America is pretty much the only country not trading with Cuba directly. In spite of that, millions in US currency flow into Cuba every month through indirect routes, including the sizable Cuban population who fled to the US for love of freedom. Overall, Cuba has a national GDP of $33.92 billion, which gives them a far better per-capita than most other countries with similar poverty levels.
The reality simply is that Cuba is run by a corrupt and incompetant military dictator whose only prior qualification was being a spoiled rich kid and lawyer. The complete mismanagement of the economy by his everlasting regime led to scarcity, and the spoils system inherent in any communist regime has led to a disparity whereby most Cubans live in abject poverty, but the priveledged few live in opulant comfort.
Cuba is not even a good example of how a communist ought to be run, but it is an excellent example of how communist governments eventually are run.
I know you're a troll, but I'll bite.
Cuba had the lowest malnutrition rate in Latin America from 1979-1992, before the US intensified sanctions. Its estimated number of malnourished as of the report date (2000) was 1.8 million, i.e. ~5%. This is almost completely due to the increased embargo; not being able to buy from the US (its nearest potential supplier) increases costs by about 30%; caloric intake during the time dropped 38%. Even still, for comparison, about 30 million Mexicans (~%28) are malnourished. Who is crying them a river?
As for your "ex-cuban" relatives, you are staring in the face the classic example of "selection bias". If they weren't anti-castro/anti-communist, they wouldn't have fled to the US, now would they?
Freeze Ray. Tell your friends.
Would you say that our "ownership" is simply a privilege granted to us by the state?
You got that exactly right.
In any country in the world, the government has the "right" to take your property, and pay you a price that they determine (which is sometimes zero).
In some countries, the government is up front about this, making it clear in property documents that you are merely granted use of the property until such time as the government wants it.
In others (such as the US), there's a pretense of private ownership. But when the government wants your property, they simply take it by "eminent domain" (google for it), and it's no longer yours. You have no recourse, unless you have the funds to bribe the right people.
You can talk all you like about property being yours. But it's just a nice social myth, belied by the actions of your own government.
A few years ago, there was a notorious case in Detroit. The city grabbed a big chunk of land by eminent domain, kicked out the people, tore down the houses - and sold it to an auto manufacturer for a price below market rates. This taught a lot of Americans just what "private property" really means to them. Some of us still remember it.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
I think the 46 years of blockade, economic warfare, and *military attacks* put paid to that debt a while ago, myself.
---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Well I'm glad you conceited snobs enjoy the embargo while the people of Cuba suffer because of it. The embargo severely cripples the Cuban economy, but hey, let's keep those people in poverty just so a few snobs like yourself can vacation on the Island free of American influences.
Perhaps you're not aware that not only can the USA not trade with Cuba under the embargo, but any international vessel that trades with Cuba cannot trade with the USA on that same trip. So if you are trading anything, you will aim most of your travels to the USA, because the Cuban imports/exports will not add anythign appreciable.
You may love keeping the embargo intact so you can take small vacations there like the conceited snob you are, but Cubans have alot of difficulty buying everyday necessities such as medicines, light bulbs, automobile parts, etc because of it.
You may love great beaches and cigars, which explains your reasons for going. When I (a US citizen) went we brought tens of thousands of dollars worth of medicines that US hospitals were disposing because they were just past their expiration date (but still good for all intents and purposes). The hospitals we visited were extremely gracious for this, medicines are really in short supply there because of the embargo.
You may like not dealing with Americans travelling in your little vacation paradise, but most cities are poorly lit, with only every 3 or 4 streetlights on. I thought at first this was to save electricity, but it's because they have a very short supply of light bulbs they can get through the embargo.
You may love the antique cars still driving around (with ridiculous amounts of air pollution), but Cubans have tough times getting automobile parts through the embargo. That's why they still have many old cars from before the embargo was placed. They have tough times not only buying new cars but even replacement parts for old cars. But hey, let's keep them in this state just so you can go and visit this quaint island.
It's funny how you dislike Americans so much, yet you're in reality far worse than the average American you despise so much.
I think that there is a general understanding even here in the US that the sanctions on Cuba are both counterproductive and implimented in such a way as to hurt the generally innocent Cuban civillians. I think that most Americans would favor more trade with Cuba. The problem instead however is that the ages of the past seem to lie like a nightmare on the present, and what was once a cold-war imperial policy (the Cold War was an imperial chess game between two cultural and political empires, IMO).
See here is the problem: During the Cold War, the US implimented a policy of helping Cubans who didn't much like Castro immigrate to the US, where they now make up an indispensible voting block on one of the most important states (Florida). In doing so, we have essentially imported Castro's oppoisition to the US, where they are now a formitable force. Sort of a tail wagging the dog....
So now, anyone with presidential aspirations cannot afford to alienate this group. So while we can pursue free trade with China (which seems to be helping to force them to transform their economy to more of a market one), it is politically impossible to do this with Cuba.
Furthermore, lets look at this idea of placating evil. I have only a few names to mention: Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, Ho Chi Minh.... Each of these people have either been close US allies or CIA operatives. With friends like these, who needs enemies? Just like the Germanic tribes and the Romans, only former allies can beat the world's largest superpower. We saw that with Vietnam, and we may be seeing that today with Iraq.
Today, things are probably a little better, but we still see issues with the regimes of countries like Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Russia in terms of systematic oppression of their peoples. Yet these are still our current allies. China was left off the list because I don't think that they are really being seen as an ally at the moment. So I ask again, with friends like these who needs enemies?
Interestingly if oyu look at Africa, those countries which during the cold war associated themselves with the USSR are now further in their transition to democracy than those dictatorships that the US propped up. Sometimes I think that we are our own worst enemy in these regards.
Our embargo of Cuba is an anacronism, and a relic of days gone by which has unfortunately institutionalized itself. Free trade is the one weapon we could use with impunity against Castro and which his government could not withstand. Yet it is off the table because it is seen as placating him.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
He is one of the most articulate politicians of the last century. You may fully disagree with him, but you can't challenge much his consistency.
He is educated and cultivated, when he talks to friends he prefers to talk about literature, poetry and movies than about politics. He would put to shame most other world politicians on a debate or discussion, and very often does when given a chance.
His ideology may be unrealistic but it is not irrational. Christianity is also irrational but follows a dogma. In general nobody calls the pope nuts for this reason.
The failure to encourage Cuba to become a democracy has a lot to do with the underestimation of the capacity of Fidel Castro as a politician.
Cuba would perhaps be a democratic country today if successive US goverments would have treated Fidel Castro as the able politician he is and offered him a dignified way out of his isolationism.
The US have done so with far worst dictators.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
That doesn't change the fact that food prices are 30% higher due to the sanctions, which means that being allowed to import from the US would provide 30% more food for the same amount of money, almost eliminating the change in caloric consumption - *and* the fact that even in their present state, Cubans are better off than many, if not most, Latin American nations when it comes to malnutrition.
As an example: Cubans eat a large portion of their calories from rice. Currently, they import most of their rice from Europe, which has to be shipped across the Atlantic. Yet, some of the cheapest rice in the world is grown in Texas, right nearby. It's things like this that make food have an effective "embargo surcharge" in Cuba. Incidentally, it hurts US farmers at the same time.
Freeze Ray. Tell your friends.
Fair enough on most points, except that the risk of punishment and severity of it was way overstated. For example, in 2003 (the last year that I found a list for), Amnesty International reported only three executions in the country (all for the crime of hijacking a passenger jet).
Yes, you don't have freedom of political speech in Cuba, and that is a shame. However, lets not overstate the situation here. For the vast majority of people (who choose not to involve themselves in politics and political institutions), as with Iraq before we invaded, it doesn't affect their lives much. Their main issues are things like economics, healthcare, education, security, etc - the things that citizens all over the world concern themselves with. Different individuals will differ as to how much of Cuba's problems are Castro's fault and how much are America's (often to extreme degrees), but the most even a very vocal dissident generally faces is jail time.
Freeze Ray. Tell your friends.