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eBay sellers Told to Include GST
noisymime writes "The Age is running a story on how The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has requested eBay Australia to enforce the inclusion of the GST on all sales/auctions. Previously this was recommended but not a requirement. Is this reasonable protection for buyers or simply a frustration for everyone? What about all the other sales and auction sites available to Australians?" Moreover, how will this apply to other countries with GSTs - or sales tax?
Are we going to have to start charging tax on purchases at our Yard/Tag/Garage sales?
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Chances are that most stuff on eBay in Australia was purchased in Australia and therefore GST would have already been paid for on the item.
So why should anyone pay GST on second hand goods?
"Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
Before all the indignant venting begins, please allow me to suggest that you take a moment to read the article.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Or at least have an option so you can display search results as total price including postage.
I'm so sick of seeing "bargains" on ebay which are $1 with $16 postage.
Personally i'd love it if they had a filter for "Items which start at 1c with no reserve" so that i can filter out all the businesses who simply retail on ebay.
It has nothing to do with making people charge a tax with their auctions, it's simply a measure to stop people grabbing an extra 10% under the guise of a tax where they may not have actually needed to collect GST.
In Australia, assuming a good being sold is subject to the GST, the seller has to remit one eleventh of the sale price to the government if the buyer is within Australia (assuming the seller is a business; I'm ignoring individual, once-off sales.)
...
... this is just one example.
The problem comes if the buyer is international -- eg, the US. In this case, it counts as an export, and is exempt from GST. This means that a bid of (for example) $105 by an international buyer is worth more to the seller than a domestic bid of $110.
It means that the seller might not get the best price for his goods. Maybe a better deal would be to say to international bidders, "If you win, you pay 10/11ths of what you actually bid" -- but that's another source of confusion
GST law has all sorts of nightmares embedded in it in Australia
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Was I the only on who read this and thought at first that they were talking about including the local time?
All this means is that if you are going to involve GST, it has to be part of the final auction price, rather than added to it after the auction ends. And this is good. Adding it on afterwards (unless it is clearly stated on the auction page) is deceptive. ebay received many complaints about this, so they are doing something about it.
Even regular merchants in Australia need to advertise prices **WITH** GST included. I've also lived in Canada and the U.S., and I have to tell you it's nice to buy something and pay the price on the sticker.... not up to 15% more once they punch it into the register and the tax gets calculated.
This warning came from the fact that commercial merchants (of which there are millions) on ebay were advertising without GST, and then adding it on to the final price after the auction when over. Thats pretty misleading from where I stand and perfectly reasonably. This will have no impact on the average Joe because he isn't required to charge GST.
GST is Goods & Services Tax. It is common in many European countries, and as far as I am aware, New Zealand and Canada as well as Australia. Australia is 10%, which is better than the UK which is 17.5%!
In Aus at least, you do not need to charge GST until your turnover exceed $50,000 per year, and GST should only apply to new, not second-hand goods.
What was happening was that people were bidding on items (or using 'buy it now') and then the seller added tax on top. There was no indication that tax was to be levied until after the end of the auction, where the final sale price was 10% higher.
Ebay has basically said, if GST needs to be charged, then the price is inclusive of GST. That way, bidders know exactly what they have to pay, rather than getting hit with something extra at the end.
Sounds fair enough to me.
Goods and ServicesTax - it is a 10% consumption tax.
This was a dumb article to post on Slashdot - all it is about is the ACCC making sure that consumers don't get ripped off by businesses that eBay to sell things.
Only individuals who have a registered Australian Business Number (ABN) AND who have registered to charge GST (and thus report on quarterly business activity and pay the GST to the tax office) are required (or allowed) to collect the GST. A business is only required to register for the GST if their turnover is inexcess of AUD$50k/year. An ABN holder who turns over less than AUD$50k/year can optionally register for the GST but they don't have to - and it is not legal to force them to do so.
eBay are only being ordered to enforce those WHO ARE registered for the GST to include it in the final sale price. If you are not registered for the GST (or if you're selling a personal item), these changes do not apply to you.
This is to combat deception where a seller would use the GST-exclusive price to outshine their competitors and then whack the GST on the top when payment is due. This is a result of where all prices quoted in Australia must already include the GST by law.
OK, I'll karma whore...
The GST stands for Goods and Services Tax. Basically, the price of anything you buy or pay for in Australia has to include an extra 10%, which the seller then has to give to the tax office. There are a few exceptions, most notably unprocessed food like fruit and vegetables.
"Some eBay buyers reported that they had been charged an additional 10 per cent on top of their winning bid or 'Buy It Now' price without having been properly alerted beforehand of the additional charge".
Sounds like this requirement is a good idea.
As an Aussie, I remember once buying a shirt in a shop in California. When I got to the checkout, I was charged for state tax on top of the price that was on the ticket. I didn't complain, because I realised at the time that that's how things are done in California.
In Australia, however, it is universally assumed that advertised prices include all taxes. That's how things are done here. For an Australian website to advertise prices otherwise would be, IMHO, misleading.
Yes, there are going to be lots of items that don't attract GST, so fine GST should not be charged on them. And yes, people outside Australia don't have to pay any GST. Fine. The simple solution is to require any sales that are subject to GST to have a note alongside the price sayng "plus 10% GST to Australian shipping addresses" or something. Easy.
Goods and Services Tax Currently set at 10%
Disclaimer: The above comment was made while under the influence of too much coding and not enough sleep.
The costs and hassles of compliance with those taxes are passed on to businesses instead of consumers (although it is the consumer who ultimately pays).
For example, in Iowa, certain bank service charges are taxable (but not all of them!). A service charge on a savings account is not taxable, but a service charge on a checking account is. That's not too bad to start with, but it gets better...
If you were to wire some money from one bank to another, it will cost you a bit to do so. If you pay that fee from your checking account, it's taxable. If you pay it from your savings account, it's not.
Also, we have multiple rates in Iowa. The state rate is 5% (except for electricity or heating oil/gas where it's 2% or 3%). Except for those communities with the local option sales tax where the rate is and additional 1%. Except for those communities with the school option sales tax where the rate is an additional 1%.
Whenever fewer people pay a tax, it gets more complicated to comply and more expensive to enforce.
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
"It's yours"
"Here's your $10"
"That's $11"
"WTF?"
"I have to charge G.S.T."
"Then you should have said so"
That's all. If you have to charge G.S.T., then you have to include it in the stated price. Most casual sales don't have to charge G.S.T..
Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
That's completely untrue.
The total GST paid is only 10% on top of the final value of the good.
If I as a business buy a widget for $11 from a supplier then:
-The GST component is $1 which the supplier sends to the tax man
-The supplier gets to keep $10.
-I note that I've paid $1 GST on purchases
If I then sell that widget to you for $33 dollars:
-The GST component is $3, but I have a credit for $1 from above so I send $2 to the taxman.
-I get to keep $31
The final sale price was $33. $3 (2 from me, 1 from my supplier) goes to the taxman which is 10% of the final non-gst amount. No matter how many times it is sold that remains true.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Why should all transactions be taxed? (Not sure about your country) But here in the states, we already get local, state and federal taxes taken out of our pay (in addition to many other taxes and fees) and in addition to that we still pay state and local sales tax. In Philadelphia its 7% which is ridiculous, in New York it is something like 9 or 10% and then in some states like Delaware there is no sales tax because Delaware has its government and budget in such good check with business's income and taxes that they don't need to burden their residents with additional and unnecessary taxes (granted their real estate tax isn't that low iirc). Perhaps instead of you trying to justify the government taking more and more of our money, the government (and this goes for all governments of the world that I've seen) should start trying to justify taking more of our money rather then them having to watch expenses and spending carefully.
Regards,
Steve
The Australian government isnt forcing EBAY to charge tax, and it isnt forcing anyone to pay tax. All they are stating, is that IF the item being sold has a tax portion, that is must be INCLUDED in the bidding price.
Eg. under IT goods on ebay, many computer stores sell items, and they provide 'tax invoices' on the goods. However many also used to have a little 'note' in their payment section stating that the FINAL sale price was 'bid' price + 10% (GST).
This can be frustrating for bidders who have to look at all the 'fine print' trying to ensure that when they bid on a $1000 item + $20 freight they dont get charge $1122 for the sale.
DSLIP Web Design and Content Management Australia.
Methinks the parochial nature of Americans needs to be considered before posting new items. If it doesn't happen in my state, or at a pinch, any of the US States, I don't need to know what it is, don't care what it is, and will certainly not lift a finger to do the 5 seconds research it takes to find out. In fact nothing in the outside world matters one iota, so why are people posting this?????!!!!
For the life of me cannot see why eBay would require glutathione S transferases to be included with each auction. I suspect most bidders would already posses a number of isoforms.
Take an example: I sold an item on ebay.com.au recently. I'm an Australian tax paying Australian citizen living in Australia, I used the services of the Australian eBay subsidiary to sell an item to another Australian citizen/resident/taxpayer, made the financial dealing in Australian dollars between Australian banks. Following the deal, eBay Australia sent me an invoice for services rendered, a fee in Australian dollars which they require to be paid to my choice of an Australian bank account or by mailing a cheque or money order to an Australian address.
So I ask for an Australian Tax Invoice in accordance with Australian law. It seemed a reasonable request to me.
Now, all of a sudden, eBay are dancing around alternating between calling themselves "eBay Inc.", an American company, and "eBay AG" (what is that, Swiss, or German or something). They won't answer communications about Australian tax, their 'support' monkeys just hit the 'random diversion' button and send off irrelevant "Thank-you for contacting eBay support, here's some information about... a Duck" type replies.
I've had it with the fockers, after this little carry on, I'm gonna start whingeing at the tax office and the consumer whassname!
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
This really is all much ado about nothing. Ebay requires you to list GST only if you are charging it. Not that you charge GST on everything. Ie, you can't falsely advertise your products as being 10/11ths of the price, which is already illegal here in Australia. If you're selling an old Mickey Mouse watch, and you don't do so for a living, then you don't need to list or charge GST. Basically, this is simply eBay.au codifying what's already law.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Not quite. You're not REQUIRED to register your business for GST unless your turnover exceeds $50,000/year (I think it's $100,000 for NPOs). If you do register you are required to charge GST even if your turnover is less than $50,000/annum. The upside is that you can claim the GST you paid, to your suppliers, back and if you paid more than you charged then you get a refund from the tax office.
If your business involves selling second-hand goods (and you're registered for GST), then you are required to charge GST.
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Yeah, my credit card when I dial 9-11 ...
... lol) versus 5-10-15 minutes for the Police to respond ... quite likely to just draw chalk outlines.
If it's for police, I'd rather handle the problem myself, with a gun. Certainly a heck of a lot faster response time: 1000 fps lead (feet, not frames
If it's for ambulance or fire, thats what insurance is for.
And yeah - I know you'll lecture me about how many people can't afford insurance. But thats only because the government interferes in the market. If we had true laisez-faire capitalism, the necesary insurance for these services would be dirt cheap.
There are plenty of ways to fund the necesary means for society to remain intact, without coerced payments. The real question is then: do we want a society run by voluntary methods, or with brute force? Taxation is brute force. Stop paying, and see men with guns show up at your door.
(BTW - whats up with this anti-bot bullshit?)
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
Methinks that the international nature of the /. audience needs to be considered before posting new items
Pff.. the rest of the world should only post comments that relate to the good old USA maybe? What about if someone posts about VAT? Do all Aussies naturally know about the xth Ammendment?
THANKYOU!
/. readers might be in the same posistion. I kind of figured that Joe Average in Greenbay would simply flick past it. If it doesn't apply to you ignore it, don't whinge about it.
Sometimes I would do anything for mod points
This was exactly my thinking when I submitted the story! The change this article talks about is something that affected myself and I thought that other