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eBay sellers Told to Include GST
noisymime writes "The Age is running a story on how The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has requested eBay Australia to enforce the inclusion of the GST on all sales/auctions. Previously this was recommended but not a requirement. Is this reasonable protection for buyers or simply a frustration for everyone? What about all the other sales and auction sites available to Australians?" Moreover, how will this apply to other countries with GSTs - or sales tax?
Are we going to have to start charging tax on purchases at our Yard/Tag/Garage sales?
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Methinks that the international nature of the /. audience needs to be considered before posting new items. Am I the only one who doesn't know what this is? Probably not.
Specialization is for insects. -Heinlein
Chances are that most stuff on eBay in Australia was purchased in Australia and therefore GST would have already been paid for on the item.
So why should anyone pay GST on second hand goods?
"Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
Before all the indignant venting begins, please allow me to suggest that you take a moment to read the article.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
It's up to any local government to regulate the behavior of local companies. This extends even to the Internet.
Normally it'd just be a matter of saying "Route around damage" and using an auction site in another country. However, as Australia is actually disconnected from every other country, it is not such a simple matter. By attempting to bypass the tax, the buyer would have to pay for overseas shipping and customs charges which may actually end up being more than the tax itself.
Seems that the Oz government has found a nice source of revenue. Not that they weren't entitled to the money before (all transactions should be taxed, even internet ones), but that it was easy to hide these transactions on the Web.
Don't most people pay taxes before the sales tax? Why does the government feel the need to be involved in every transaction? There's a huge waste for collection both for taxpayers, and collectors.
The GST inclusion on EBay autions is only for people required to be registered for GST. IE: Businesses earning more than 50,000 AUD per annum based in Australia using the Auction site as means of selling. To clarify the issue as to weather or not GST can be added to the final auction price eBay sent out this email to ensure that all people are aware that for goods being sold on eBay those who are required to pay GST include it in the item total/starting price/reserve and not to add it at the end of the aution. Nothing to see here move along...
was that you paid GST on new items, but not on second hand items. I may be totaly wrong, as I'm not a tax expert, but the thinking was that it was not right for something to have tax paid on it again and again and again.
The interesting thing would be buying something interenationally, where you normally are exempt from local sales taxes. Not sure how that would be played out
Then again, being fair isn't really the role of the taxman.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
Or at least have an option so you can display search results as total price including postage.
I'm so sick of seeing "bargains" on ebay which are $1 with $16 postage.
Personally i'd love it if they had a filter for "Items which start at 1c with no reserve" so that i can filter out all the businesses who simply retail on ebay.
It has nothing to do with making people charge a tax with their auctions, it's simply a measure to stop people grabbing an extra 10% under the guise of a tax where they may not have actually needed to collect GST.
In Australia, assuming a good being sold is subject to the GST, the seller has to remit one eleventh of the sale price to the government if the buyer is within Australia (assuming the seller is a business; I'm ignoring individual, once-off sales.)
...
... this is just one example.
The problem comes if the buyer is international -- eg, the US. In this case, it counts as an export, and is exempt from GST. This means that a bid of (for example) $105 by an international buyer is worth more to the seller than a domestic bid of $110.
It means that the seller might not get the best price for his goods. Maybe a better deal would be to say to international bidders, "If you win, you pay 10/11ths of what you actually bid" -- but that's another source of confusion
GST law has all sorts of nightmares embedded in it in Australia
If the seller suddenly starts charging 10% more because of this, then it's only fair that it is forced to be in the advertised price.
:-)
If you are a commercial entity and need to charge GST, you should be so fair to show it in the price. And if you (or some rotten apples) don't but charge it later anyway, then they all have to suffer for it.
If you are a simple garage saler, then it doesn't affect you.
Very simple, I would even call it common sense
bash$
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Because the article doesn't mention it...what EXACTLY is the GST? Context and discussion suggest some kind of sales tax. Details, please!
What does it stand for?
How much is it?
What does it apply to?
I used to have to charge GST, but if I remember correctly, you only have to do that if your sales of goods or services exceed a certain amount per fiscal year...
So unless you operate a so-called eBay store in Canada that sells goods to other Canadians, I don't think it would generally affect most people.
Was I the only on who read this and thought at first that they were talking about including the local time?
It makes perfect sense to include all taxes in the price of goods rather than to tack them on after you have agreed to buy something. Ebay users who failed to put the tax odd on the sale price, instead choosing to add it when the punter went to pay clearly got more hits from doing it this way, much to the chagrin of the 'honest' sellers. I know that I always search for items on eBay by the price primarily and by the rating secondarily.
What about countries like Canada that have 15% tax? PST (Provincial Sales Tax) at 8% (Ontario, for example) AND GST (Goods and Services Tax) at 7%?
Would eBay Canada start charging me 15% on top of everything I buy?
All this means is that if you are going to involve GST, it has to be part of the final auction price, rather than added to it after the auction ends. And this is good. Adding it on afterwards (unless it is clearly stated on the auction page) is deceptive. ebay received many complaints about this, so they are doing something about it.
Even regular merchants in Australia need to advertise prices **WITH** GST included. I've also lived in Canada and the U.S., and I have to tell you it's nice to buy something and pay the price on the sticker.... not up to 15% more once they punch it into the register and the tax gets calculated.
This warning came from the fact that commercial merchants (of which there are millions) on ebay were advertising without GST, and then adding it on to the final price after the auction when over. Thats pretty misleading from where I stand and perfectly reasonably. This will have no impact on the average Joe because he isn't required to charge GST.
Australia ... inclusion ... GST ... sales/auctions.... taxes?
Yes. You are the only one who read the summary and didn't figure out it involved taxes in Australia.
Only individuals who have a registered Australian Business Number (ABN) AND who have registered to charge GST (and thus report on quarterly business activity and pay the GST to the tax office) are required (or allowed) to collect the GST. A business is only required to register for the GST if their turnover is inexcess of AUD$50k/year. An ABN holder who turns over less than AUD$50k/year can optionally register for the GST but they don't have to - and it is not legal to force them to do so.
eBay are only being ordered to enforce those WHO ARE registered for the GST to include it in the final sale price. If you are not registered for the GST (or if you're selling a personal item), these changes do not apply to you.
This is to combat deception where a seller would use the GST-exclusive price to outshine their competitors and then whack the GST on the top when payment is due. This is a result of where all prices quoted in Australia must already include the GST by law.
The point of TFA is that buyers couldn't tell what the price of any article was because some sellers would include tax and some wouldn't. Now all must. Thus it is an issue of fairness.
As for the effect on buyers outside of Australia, most countries have a method for exempt persons to either get their GST back after the fact or avoid (with paperwork) paying it in the first place. In Australia for instance exports are considered GST free. Would a sale on eBay be considered an export?
Ok let's keep using acronyms and let people guess what they mean.. Both the article and the summary do not expand what GST is, had to read through the comments.
"Some eBay buyers reported that they had been charged an additional 10 per cent on top of their winning bid or 'Buy It Now' price without having been properly alerted beforehand of the additional charge".
Sounds like this requirement is a good idea.
As an Aussie, I remember once buying a shirt in a shop in California. When I got to the checkout, I was charged for state tax on top of the price that was on the ticket. I didn't complain, because I realised at the time that that's how things are done in California.
In Australia, however, it is universally assumed that advertised prices include all taxes. That's how things are done here. For an Australian website to advertise prices otherwise would be, IMHO, misleading.
Yes, there are going to be lots of items that don't attract GST, so fine GST should not be charged on them. And yes, people outside Australia don't have to pay any GST. Fine. The simple solution is to require any sales that are subject to GST to have a note alongside the price sayng "plus 10% GST to Australian shipping addresses" or something. Easy.
Could we start a thread on tax reform ideas? I live in the U.S.A., so I don't know much about how other countries operate.
The problem with income tax is that it taxes necessities of life, such as food, groceries, and medical supplies. We could simply eliminate it and go to a sales tax on items that aren't considered necessities, that way the poor aren't faced with the tax burden, but the rich can certainly afford it.
I hate the idea of property tax, but there should be a way to make it progressive. One idea is this...
Exempt a value from being taxable on the parcel of land. Perhaps the highest average home price or whatever. Let us say that is $200k. Then only tax the excess of it. Update this value every year or two. Change the rate. If someone owns a very expensive piece of land, they'd pay more into the system now, thus helping relieve those who own cheap homes. Same goes for businesses.
Income tax, a special one. Take five times the per capita income. If your income exceeds that value, then you'd pay like a 10% tax on the excess of that. So hypothetically, 5 times $40k would be $200k, and if someone were to earn $800k, then 10% of $800k-$200k would be $60k in tax revenue. Individual income only.
Just some ideas, I'd like to hear feedbacks, compliments and complaints.
GST is Goods and Services Tax, and it is levied by the Commonwealth Government (the peak government that covers all of Australia) It is currently set at 10%, and it applies to all sales by a business that are not basic foods. By law, a business must advertise or set the sale price including GST. GST must not be added on afterwards.
GST only applies when you buy something from a business, not if two people just do a deal to buy something. For example, a yard sale would not attarct GST
The ACCC has a history as a champion of consumer rights, and generally takes the view that businesses should only advertise the final price for a product (including all charges, taxes etc) so that consumers can readily make price comparisons. The ACCC are pretty much the good guys in this situation.
Most of the purhcases I make on Ebay are for new items.
Most of the high volume sellers on Ebay are selling new items. I'm willing to bet that a large portion of Ebay's volume is new items. It really is just another retail outlet - just like catalogs and other mail order stores.
Although, they may do things differently in Austrialia. Everything is upside down afterall.
While I agree the retards that try schemes to jack the price suck, there are legit ones and often you can get a good deal. I bought a Colorimiter (device that measures the colour response of your monitor) new in box with full warantee for about $20 under what I could get it for off eBay. It was a store type thing, I mean they had like 10 of them for sale, in addition to tons of other items.
Doesn't apply to everything, but often you can save money this way. I always check when I'm buying some kind of professional tool that's suppirted directly through the manufacturer. If you have to send it back anyhow for service, might as well get it at the cheapest place that's legit.
Goods and Services Tax Currently set at 10%
Disclaimer: The above comment was made while under the influence of too much coding and not enough sleep.
What's GST? (Yes I know how to use google, Goods and services tax, lame ass editors)
has requested eBay Australia to enforce the inclusion of the GST on all sales/auctions.
As several people have pointed out, they are only enforcing the inclusion of the GST on all sales/auctions where it would otherwise be added. As many sellers on eBay do not have to pay GST, this is definitely not a straight out "all sales/auctions".
I'm sick of article summaries containing blatant misinformation like this. Is it too much to ask for the story submitter to have an adequate grasp of the facts?
And yes, I'm new here.
That's completely untrue.
The total GST paid is only 10% on top of the final value of the good.
If I as a business buy a widget for $11 from a supplier then:
-The GST component is $1 which the supplier sends to the tax man
-The supplier gets to keep $10.
-I note that I've paid $1 GST on purchases
If I then sell that widget to you for $33 dollars:
-The GST component is $3, but I have a credit for $1 from above so I send $2 to the taxman.
-I get to keep $31
The final sale price was $33. $3 (2 from me, 1 from my supplier) goes to the taxman which is 10% of the final non-gst amount. No matter how many times it is sold that remains true.
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If you are a business, then you have to play by the rules and you must know them. If you're a private seller, don't worry.
If goods are going across provincial borders then no pst (provincial sales tax) is payable. If you make less than 30k/year on your 'business', then no gst is payable.
The bottom line is that for most transactions in Canada, you can forget the taxes. Just deal with private individuals, not businesses.
The Australian government isnt forcing EBAY to charge tax, and it isnt forcing anyone to pay tax. All they are stating, is that IF the item being sold has a tax portion, that is must be INCLUDED in the bidding price.
Eg. under IT goods on ebay, many computer stores sell items, and they provide 'tax invoices' on the goods. However many also used to have a little 'note' in their payment section stating that the FINAL sale price was 'bid' price + 10% (GST).
This can be frustrating for bidders who have to look at all the 'fine print' trying to ensure that when they bid on a $1000 item + $20 freight they dont get charge $1122 for the sale.
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Methinks the parochial nature of Americans needs to be considered before posting new items. If it doesn't happen in my state, or at a pinch, any of the US States, I don't need to know what it is, don't care what it is, and will certainly not lift a finger to do the 5 seconds research it takes to find out. In fact nothing in the outside world matters one iota, so why are people posting this?????!!!!
For the life of me cannot see why eBay would require glutathione S transferases to be included with each auction. I suspect most bidders would already posses a number of isoforms.
I'm just saying.
Take an example: I sold an item on ebay.com.au recently. I'm an Australian tax paying Australian citizen living in Australia, I used the services of the Australian eBay subsidiary to sell an item to another Australian citizen/resident/taxpayer, made the financial dealing in Australian dollars between Australian banks. Following the deal, eBay Australia sent me an invoice for services rendered, a fee in Australian dollars which they require to be paid to my choice of an Australian bank account or by mailing a cheque or money order to an Australian address.
So I ask for an Australian Tax Invoice in accordance with Australian law. It seemed a reasonable request to me.
Now, all of a sudden, eBay are dancing around alternating between calling themselves "eBay Inc.", an American company, and "eBay AG" (what is that, Swiss, or German or something). They won't answer communications about Australian tax, their 'support' monkeys just hit the 'random diversion' button and send off irrelevant "Thank-you for contacting eBay support, here's some information about... a Duck" type replies.
I've had it with the fockers, after this little carry on, I'm gonna start whingeing at the tax office and the consumer whassname!
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Governments should just charge a fixed fee off everyone ... People who can't afford it can defer payment or something I don't know.
.. the payment should be equal for everyone.
Basically government is a service provider
I am not a script - and slashdot made me type ikggjdc to prove it.
It's ... READ THE [ahem] FRELLING ARTICLE!
otherwise known by it's tofla - RTFA!
Welcome to slashdot, how did you acquire such a low ID number?
No you are very wrong. You are only required to be registered for GST if you are using it as a form of income where it exceeds 50,000 AUD per annum.
Almost right. Not only do you need an ABN, everyone doing commercial transactions of any nature totalling over $10,000 per year must also register for VYN status and have completed GBRs in their possession.
Additionally, businesses and individuals earning more than 50,000 AUD must pay GST, NBR, and KBN liabilities while also maintaining their VYN requirements.
If you sell cars for a living (> 50,000 AUD), registration alone is insufficient unless you're filing through state-assisted EAPs. Unlike the IRS, the ATO is not the only organisation with taxing responsibilities. They must share their duties and fees with entities like the BHA (or BUA in some states) and taxpayers have to deal witheach organisation seperately in their annual TLAWTF reports.
the article says: "The modified policy only applies to eBay sellers who are required to be registered for GST," Mr Samuel said.
i don't know what that means over there, but in the USA you do not have to pay tax if you are selling your own stuff. if you are running an online store or something it is a different story. if you sell an old laptop or a pair of skis then you, in theory, already paid any required possible tax on the item and do not have to again. i think if the item went up in value then you are maybe supposed to pay tax on the increased amount of value.... but for individuals i don't know about that.
i guess the laws for vehicles are different too..... for some reason you have to pay a tax on the amount of the sale when you transfer the title (at least in PA we do).
all that being said i hope we don't get that kind of tax. as of right now i don't see George Bush or the Republicans pushing for it. they have been mostly against internet taxes hoping that SOME part of the economy will do well.
lemme explain something about goverment theevery... Seriously, the goal of a tax like this is pretty much always to tax every instance of trade.
This really is all much ado about nothing. Ebay requires you to list GST only if you are charging it. Not that you charge GST on everything. Ie, you can't falsely advertise your products as being 10/11ths of the price, which is already illegal here in Australia. If you're selling an old Mickey Mouse watch, and you don't do so for a living, then you don't need to list or charge GST. Basically, this is simply eBay.au codifying what's already law.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Am I the only person who was told back in high school English class to define an acronym the first time you use it? I'm guessing the S and T stand for Sales and Tax respectively, but what the heck is the G? Global? General? Great? Goofy?
And yes, I did RTFA, it doesn't say there either.
ZuluPad, the wiki notepad on crack
Really, nothing to see here. Your grandma won't have to worry about GST when she sells her old stuff.
...in Soviet Australia, GST includes eBay sellers!
Circumcision is child abuse.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Much as it has been described for Australia, the only people who need to worry about GST are those that are registered for GST and are selling the item from their registered entity - A company or self employed individual.
So - if you need to allow for GST on sales you already know about it - and if you don't it's not a concern.
GST only applies to sales with in NZ - Sales overseas are exempt.
This is all covered in the relevant documentation available from the IRD ird.govt.nz
In my idea, there is a problem I realized. The savings account issue.
Someone can put money into a savings account, and it can grow due to interest, or lose money if fees exceed the interest gained, or perhaps you let it grow and you spend money and it's pretty "unstable" in that respect.
Consider this. You buy a nice car for $80k. Depending, it might mature in value over the years if it is a classic. You then sell it for $100k later on.
Let us say when someone liquidates assets, that it needs to be considered as income. So if you withdraw $200k from a bank, that's income. If you sell your house for $800k, that's income. However, if you buy an asset, that shouldn't necessarily be considered income until it is turned into cash.
Will this above solve the problem?
That will be US$100,000.00 damages for stealing bread from the hard-working mouth of our deceased associate, Mr. George Beatle, with your flagrant piracy of his well-known lyrics.
'Cause I'm the lawyer-man, yeah, I'm the law-yer man, and you're working to pay me my fee.
If the vendor is in Australia they have to state GST inclusive.
It's really simple.
The IT industry in this country thought they could ignore the law when it first came in but even those thick skulls eventually realised they were breaking the law.
Incidentally I got some discounts around that time by demanding they stick by advertised prices (and pay the GST).
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
Nice troll.
Isn't sale's tax, a tax on a business' profits, and not a tax on the consumer for buying stuff? And a business who's unwilling to "lose" profits just passes on the tax cost to the consumer? I'm willing to bet that's the way it is and people aren't aware that they, the consumers, are paying business' fair share of taxes (at least in the U.S.). Double-taxed!
if gst is the same thing as vat, every price which is not on b2b price lists has to include vat
so you always know how much you have to pay.
Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
This change is not going to affect the average ebay buyer or seller, only merchants that trade with a GST registered business.
If I sell the DVD player I won recently, I will not be required to add GST to the final price.
This change is good if anything, as those larger merchants just rip people off with fine print hidden charges.
THANKYOU!
/. readers might be in the same posistion. I kind of figured that Joe Average in Greenbay would simply flick past it. If it doesn't apply to you ignore it, don't whinge about it.
Sometimes I would do anything for mod points
This was exactly my thinking when I submitted the story! The change this article talks about is something that affected myself and I thought that other
The point isn't "gee whiz, they're making you charge an extra tax on what you sell on eBay", they're saying that if you are going to charge GST (=VAT value-added tax in britain) then you *have to include it in the purchase price advertised*.
In the UK, we have 17.5% VAT. It is incredibly annoying when people advertise the price ex VAT to conceal what they're charging, and hit a lower perceived price-point.
Similarly, in the UK you only have to "collect" (i.e. charge) VAT if your turnover is more than GBP50k/year, so it won't really affect private individuals.
In other words, this is a Good Thing (tm).
People need to also realise this; GST is liable for those who exceed $50,000 *HOWEVER* it also has to be a regular situation of buying and selling. For example, lets say over a period of 3 years, I see goods totally more than $50,000 on each occasion - THAT wouldn't be taxed as it was a private sale, a once off sale, and the money isn't being used as a regular form of income.
Second hand goods and exempt from GST as well, since the cost of administrating such piddly amounts of money would be outweigh any possible revenue they might generate clamping down on John Higgins and his local Cricket card swapping moonshining.
We have the same situation in New Zealand with GST, which is on everything (I feel sorry about Australian businesses and all the extra paper work required for the whats exempt and what isn't) - but like I said, there are exemptions.
The underlying this is this; if you use eBay as a way of making a regular income, aka, you're a business, *THEN* you have to pay GST on those sales *HOWEVER* if you're just Joe private seller, wanting to get rid of some stuff, then its all good.
they are only talking about ebay shops. and yes i can see the tax departments point on this one. every other shop must charge gst, why the fuck should ebay shops think they are allowed to get away with it?
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
As if the WHO-O-O-O-O-OLE world knows what "GST" stands for like it's common knowledge. I never even heard the abr. until this /. article.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
It about making Ebay prices transparent & fair for all.
Certain commercial sellers quote ex GST and this can be confusing for buyers & improve their ebay search ranking.
It wasn't just buyers that were being adversely affected by the GST.
Sellers who advertised a GST-inclusive price were worse off than those (unfairly) advertising the same product without the GST included in the advertised price (this would affect mainly BuyItNow items).
Now all sellers are on an even playing field and can compete on the real price of the item.
Frankly, this change by eBay is just common sense and benefits everyone, I don't know what all the fuss is about.
I'm a perfectionist but I'm trying to cut back.
Don't give Canada any ideas!
Bloody Aussies!
plus mandatory services charges, etc.
In Oz there isn't even tipping, meaning the quoted price is the price paid.
People should have it shoved in their face *every damn time they make a purchase* how much money the blood-sucking government leeches are taking from them.
Otherwise, it's *way* too easy for these kinds of taxes to become totally hidden from public scrutiny and awareness.
With income taxes, you are forced to be aware of them when you file, with registration fees, they are typically listed right there, etc., etc.
In the US, the same is true of sales taxes, by and large. The only exception I can think of is gas taxes, which are only sporadically posted, but I think that's evil too.
Yes, it's extra work for buyers, but that's part of democracy. If you stop *thinking* about what your government is doing, you stop having any true voice in it.
It's quite hilarious, isn't it, how the law doesn't say: All advertised prices must be followed by the notice "includes $xxx GST"?
Not.
the lot of 'em.
Goods and Services tax, if you sell second goods and you make more than $50k a year doing this then you have to charge GST
OH.....I thought you meant GSP? Never mind.