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Using Computer Stores to Spread Open Source?
DigitalRaptor asks: "I live in a small city with about 4 or 5 computer stores, most of whom I know personally. None of these stores offer Open Source software on the computers they sell (Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, etc), and none of them have anything in place to educate their customers about spyware and viruses. I'd like to approach them with all of the relevant information in a presentable format. I think this would be a great way to spread OSS and to help the average consumer at the same time. Is there a project out there for this purpose that local advocates could use to approach computer stores in their town?"
They make money cleaning spyware and viruses off computers. Why would they educate their users about them?
First of all the Mozilla project (for example) should produce a boxed version of their product suite. Store customers want somthing tangible. Microsoft could offer everything as downloads only, but instead they package it into a fancy box. I would suggest the cost of the open-source software should cover the packaging and that's it.
Have you checked out TheOpenCD? That one contains a number of well-known and useful open-source applications for Windows; it should be easy to make (possibly customized) copies of that one to include with new computers, for example.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Why would the stores listen to you or care? Honestly, Slashdotters (admittedly, like most people) have no clue what it takes to run a successful business. Independent computer stores have been hit very hard by the fact that geeks have no loyalty, and shop mainly at big box stores, and generic online merchants (tiger direct, etc). The *only* way that the few remaining independent computer stores, which are already probably struggling, will even begin to listen is if you have a way for them to improve their bottom line. Bottom line.
Ideals about "Freedom" don't really matter to people if you can't pay rent. You'd do well to remember that before you started preaching to them about how they should run their business.
No. Please post a sourceforge link when you're done ;)
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
The Open CD includes a lot of open-source software, including Open Office, Thunderbird, Firefox, Gimp, etc. I've got a few stores here in my local area distributing the Open CD, and they say they have had great success. The key is the rep educating the customer when he or she buys a new system about the dangers of viruses and spyware, so they have to be willing to go along with it. But the good news is that there is already a compilation of applications for that purpose.
bash: rtfm: command not found
I work in a computer store, but the position of management (and it's been similar at a lot of stores I've visited or worked for) is that they don't want to push/give OpenOffice because they don't make money on it. In the retail market, it seems like value-added services don't matter anymore...if there isn't a profit to be made, it won't be touched.
Same goes with programs like AVG, Spybot, etc...we use the utilities in the service department as part of our spyware/virus cleaning services, but that's as far as it goes.
Trust me, I'd love to load our systems with Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, etc., but the retail culture here doesn't allow it!
the Windows Toolbox - http://thegoldenear.org/ - all the software on one CD
I haven't heard of any computer store do such... yet. Maybe like with everything, it takes someone to start it. So go and talk with them. Maybe it could end up like at my work .. doing tech nites about stuff like wireless networking or security or encryption for the people to learn more about them after work hours, enjoying the company of the other geek work mates and company sponsored pizzas.
:)
Maybe if one computer store would have such evenings, they could get some money back of it (parts, peripherals.. selling at low cost burned OpenOffice etc softwares) - and as well get a very nice mouth to mouth advertising by the people who would enjoy it.
I think that if you were on the Mozilla project, and said, I contributed to this fine software, I was wondering if you'd like to carry it in your store, that that would be a swaying argument.
I think that if you were a consumer, purchasing computer equipment, and asked if they had the item, and you said you'd like to buy it, then they would probably listen.
If you said "my goodness, it appears that you're not carrying open source software... I don't want any today, but I think that you should carry it," that you'll sound pushy, no matter what you do, and that you're more likely to drive store owners away from this.
Seriously, did you change faiths last time someone came around your neighborhood asking you to do so?
I had thought a while ago that as a public service, it might be nice to donate time to various goodwill/salvation army stores around my area and offer to load usable software on them - an OSS package that would be set up to most efficiently use the P-166 computers that are generally found in such places. Does anyone know of a good distro for such a use? Something that could easily set up for dial-up access would be good I think...
I have in fact a P-166 sitting right here that was donated to an org I work for that I was thinking to try out the plan upon, since I wanted to wipe the HD anyway before passing it along. Possibly the org might even use it as an office computer.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Most people coming into a retail store are not ubergeeks. To a basic user, packaging sells stuff. Once they buy something, it has to be easy to use and install.
To expand Linux into this market, everything needs to pass the grandmother test. If she doesn't read a manual, san she install it and make it work with less than 15 minutes of phone support?
As experienced users, we often forget that most people have much better things to do with their time than learn how to make a user hostile computer work.
Offer to preload your own Linux distribution. It could be a cut and paste from Ubuntu for example.
Include plenty of advertising for your support services and wait for the phone calls to start.
Most likely you will have to cut the stores in on the deal, perhaps they will take the hardware work and you get the software work.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
There was a (somewhat) similar discussion previously, which might give some pointers.
Open Source CD Lending For Public Libraries?
IIRC one important conclusion was that the libraries feared getting in a position where users started to expect support from them regarding the products. I could imagine that computer stores would have similar reservations.
It is much easier to give librarians the choice and ability to lend them out in libraries, says this article:
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http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/12/14/
When you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
So, who is going to support these additional software packages? Who is going to be responsible for the software if/when it breaks, or if/when Firefox leads to a virus infecting the computer?
Geeks often forget that a major part of the computer industry is support.
Do you actually expect Office Max, or some mom 'n pop computer store to directly support third party apps? 'Cause that is what would happen... At least, when you have a licensed copy of MS office, and it goes whacko, you can call up MS and demand that they fix it. Can the same be said of the OSS that you listed?
What, do you expect these retailers to tell their customers, "tough nookie, we're not going to support it.. and there is no 1-800 number to call for help, either. We suggest you find the correct forum and post a request for help." ??
I'm sorry.. maybe I'm just pescimistic, but... GET REAL. A major computer manufacturer, like IBM, may have the resources to full support an OSS app that they themselves did not code (or code much of), but expecting a small retailer to be responsible for some random OSS app? Yeah.. right.
Sorry, bud.. but you need to join the real world. Until Mozilla actually turns FF into a retail (or at least OEM) package and fully supports it as such, expecting some little retailer to be offering it is just looney.
/dev/random
The best chance that this can work is to find a way that both the consumer and the computer shop can save money.
For example, the store can offer a computer and a choice of two software packages.
package a) commercial software with Norton and Microsoft works or Office and so on.
package b) the free software alternative but the store can tack on $50 on the computer price.
Well, you say, they can't charge for free software. While that is true, they can "fiddle" with the numbers. They can raise the base computer price $25, and offer a $25 rebate if you buy the commercial software package.
They can also sell a 1 year support contract for package b for $50 (and then they buy the service from Geeks on wheels or something for $25).
There, they make $50 ($25 + $50 - $25) for selling a system with free software. And the customer saved even more.
Win-win.
What is good is that the store builds a relationship with geeks on wheels and that can also be translated into money. For instance, whenever Geeks on wheels services that computer they would buy the part or software from the store.
The remaining problem is that the computer shop buys their computers from HP (for instance) and they may refuse to sell a system without at least MS Works on it because of some contract that they in turn have with Microsoft.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
I went to Best Buy with 50 Knoppix CDs and rebooted all the display computers.
Not a bad idea. In fact, you could sell tangible packages of open source software for 5 bucks, and suggest the retail markup be another 5 bucks. Granted, that might seem ridiculous to people like you and I, but whatever works. You'd think there'd be some non-profit out there taking advantage of this right now with big retailers like Walmart and etc. Some people just don't have the time or willpower to download open source, but wouldn't mind spending ten bucks to get it.
If the computer stores in your town are franchises of national chains you stand no chance because the local management is unlikely to have the authority to take you up on any offer you make -- you would need to sell much higher up the supply chain. -t
Stores, as opposed to mailorder, justify their markup by offering customer service. Choose open-source software based on superior support, including less demand for support, and the store can offer better customer service by plugging customers into that community. Where the OSS is free, it can still be priced, by charging for support offered. Even if that support is just training for new members of the community, like reading documentation, visiting websites, filing bug reports, and upgrading.
--
make install -not war
I suppose it depends on your point of view. If you're a total mercenary, you wouldn't show a customer jack-squat. You might even deactivate their built-in SP2 firewall. After all, the more infected their PC gets, the more you get to charge (by the hour, 'natch) to fix it. It's a neverending revenue stream...
If you're a smirking misanthrope, you probably get a kick out of delivering the same condescending lecture to all your spyware/virus-infested "luser" customers. Why would you ever push some free tools their way? It would cut down on your fun... because there's nothing more satisfying than pointing out the shortcomings of others.
On the other hand, How many times do you want to see the same PCs coming through your door? The only thing worse than death is boredom.
If you're a benevolent sort, you probably would show them a few things... such little freebies sometimes make a world of difference, not to mention they generate a little goodwill and customer loyalty.
If you're an intellectual individual who likes stretching your abilities with a challenging technical problem, you'd probably at least show them the basics. After all, you'd get bored removing the same Gator/Hotbar/Netsky every day. Where's the challenge? Let them bring you a PC that somebody had to use a little ingenuity to infect...
I'm a benevolent sort, so I fix all kinds of computers for my employees and coworkers... for free. The goodwill it generates more than compensates me for the minimal time and effort it takes to clean out some spyware.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Same thing at my shop, plus the management doesn't want to learn about anything open source or free, generally only what microsoft/symantec/someothercorp will spit out. Even when it's obviously terrible software, open source alternatives are not considered. OpenOffice has made some inroads but as soon as one glitch comes up where it doesn't render a MS format properly everyone starts bitching. It's like that is worse than having to call microsoft when we upgrade a motherboard and they won't let a paid license activate over the web because it's already been done x amount of times. I used to offer Firefox but then my coworkers (who still like and use IE for some reason) tell me about their problems with customers calling up and complaining about Firefox to them. Instead of learning how Firefox works (which isn't hard!) so we can support users with it, they refuse. It's too bad really.
So, you demonstrated that people buying their computers could know their hardware will work on both windows and linux.
Looks like you are doing some good marketing on the behalf of Best Buy
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Why not press up a few hundred copies of The OpenCD, screen 'em with a catchy logo...something like "Free Software! Fully functional Microsoft Word clone!"...and put stacks of 'em wherever you see AOL discs. People will find their own support, as they have and always will. Some choose to call Microsoft, some choose to call their nerdy cousin, and many simply cope. Wouldn't it be much easier to cope with the software on The OpenCD?
I run a computer sales / repair shop and i do bundle mostly open source offerings, mainly firefox for browsing, dev c++ for C programming (a good number of my customers are CS majors) and other apps. Usually I offer open source software where ever possible, in the case of firefox, the number of complaints i've had of viruses and spyware has been greatly reduced. As a result my clients are more than happy to refer my shop to their friends because of their overall positive experiences. Furthermore using open source apps in my experience have been alot more stable and have helped to reduce the overall cost of the system being sold.
Are you THAT GUY who shows up at the local computer shops to annoy the customers and employees but never buys anything?
When i need a 4 year old video card or something that doesnt have to be top notch.
just something to show a console or even 20 gigs of drive space for some box im making for something.
Those small stores are happy to sell me the used stuff they have laying around.
Try getting a 4 meg video card from best buy for 5 bucks or so.
Or a 16x cdrom burner for 5 bucks.
Stuff they can never sell or use anymore but for what i need it for its great.