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Apple Switching to Intel

Steve Jobs announced at the WWDC keynote today that Apple is switching to Intel processors. MacNN has live coverage. The bottom line is that Mac OS X for the last five years has been running on Intel, the switch is expected to be complete in two years, and Rosetta will allow PPC apps to run on Intel-based Macs, transparently. If you're using Xcode, it is small changes and a recompile; otherwise, you might be seeing a lot of work ahead of you. You will be able to order the 10.4.1 preview for Intel today.

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  1. Paste from Macworld..read before flaming by Danathar · · Score: 4, Informative

    The rumors are true: Intel will be inside

    Jobs talked about the major transitions in the Mac's life -- starting from the Mac's Motorola 68000-series processor to PowerPC. "The PowerPC set Apple up fro the next decade. It was a good move," he said.

    "The second transition was even better -- the transition from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X that we just did," he continued. "This was a brain transplant. And even though these operating systems (9 and x) vary only by one in name, they are very different, and this has set Apple up for the next 20 years."

    As the Intel logo lowered on the stage screen, Jobs said, "We are going to make the transition from PowerPC to Intel processors, and we are going to do it for you now, and for our customers next year. Why? Because we want to be making the best computer for our customers looking forward."

    "I stood up here two years ago and promised you 3.0 GHz. I think a lot of you would like a G5 in your PowerBook, and we haven't been able to deliver that to you," said Jobs. "But as we look ahead, and though we've got great products now, and great PowerPC products still to come, we can envision great products we want to build, and we can't envision how to build them with the current PowerPC roadmap," said Jobs.

    Intel processors provide more performance per watt than PowerPC processors do, said Jobs. "When we look at future roadmaps, mid-2006 and beyond, we see PoweRPC gives us 15 units of perfomance per watt, but Intel's roadmap gives us 70. And so this tells us what we have to do," he explained.

    Transition to Intel by 2007, and yes, Marklar exists

    "Starting next year, we will introduce Macs with Intel processors," said Jobs. "This time next year, we plan to ship Macs with Intel processors. In two years, our plan is that the transition will be mostly complete, and will be complete by end of 2007."

    Jobs then confirmed a long-held belief that Apple was working on an Intel-compatible version of Mac OS X that some have termed "Marklar."

    Mac OS X has been "leading a secret double life" for the past five years, said Jobs. "So today for the first time, I can confirm the rumors that every release of Mac OS X has been compiled for PowerPC and Intel. This has been going on for the last five years."

    Jobs demonstrated a version of Mac OS X running on a 3.6GHz Pentium 4-processor equipped system, running a build of Mac OS X v10.4.1. He showed Dashboard widgets, Spotlight, iCal, Apple's Mail, Safari and iPhoto all working on the Intel-based system.

    Apple needs developers' help to complete the transition

    "We are very far along on this, but we're not done," said Jobs. "Which is why we're going to put it in your hands very soon, so you can help us finish it."

    Widget, scripts and Java applications should work in the new environment without any conversion, said Jobs. Cocoa-based applications will require "a few minor tweaks and a recompile." Carbon-based applications require "a few more tweaks," recompiling, and "they'll work," said Jobs. And projects built using Metrowerks' CodeWarrior need to be moved to Xcode.

    The future of Mac OS X development is moving to Xcode, said Jobs. Of Apple's top 100 developers, more than half -- 56 percent -- are already using Xcode, and 25 percent are in the process of switching to Xcode. "Less than 20 percent are not on board yet. Now is a good time to get on board," said Jobs.

    A new build of Xcode, version 2.1, is being released today. This new release enables developers to specify PowerPC or Intel architectures. "... and you're going to build what's called a universal binary. It contains all the bits for both architectures," said Jobs. "One binary, works on both PowerPC and Intel architecture. So you can ship one CD that supports both processors."

    "This is nothing like Carbonizing"

    Many developers reading this news may be thinking that they'll have to go through the same woes they had to in order to get their Mac OS 9 applications "Carbonized" to run on

    1. Re:Paste from Macworld..read before flaming by Danathar · · Score: 4, Informative

      Continued paste from Macworld...

      Rosetta keeps old apps running

      Jobs also discussed a new technology called Rosetta, that he described as "a dynamic binary translator." It runs existing PowerPC applications on the Intel platform, he said. Jobs described Rosetta as "lightweight," and said "it's nothing like Classic."

      Jobs demonstrated Rosetta by running Microsoft Office applications, Quicken and Photoshop CS 2 -- all unmodified PowerPC-binary versions, unlike Mathematica -- on the new Intel-based hardware.

      "So that is Rosetta, Jobs concluded. "These PowerPC apps just run. And that's what we're going to have for our users, because every app isn't going to be there for our users on day one."

      Microsoft's Roz Ho and Adobe's Bruce Chizen both took the stage to reaffirm their commitment to the Macintosh platform. Ho said that Microsoft has been "working with Apple for some time" to create future versions of Office using Apple's Xcode tools, and will create universal binaries accordingly." Chizen called Apple's decision to move to Intel "great," and gently chided Steve Jobs: "What took you so long?"

  2. Re:Holy crap. by cosmo7 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's Apple's press release.

    Dispel any remaining doubts; we are now living in the evil mirror universe.

  3. Re:You know what this means, Power PC Apple Users? by Radon+Knight · · Score: 4, Informative

    Possibly not - the new version of XCode builds universal binaries for both Intel and PPC. So, what's the problem again?

  4. Re:Have a taste... by Golias · · Score: 5, Informative

    You have plenty of time. The rumors were only half-true.

    Apple is adopting Intel, but is not "ditching" IBM.

    New G5 towers will still be around for at least another year, and probably at least two. Intel is probably going to start by replacing the G4 CPUs in Powerbooks and minis.

    At the Stevenote, he informed devs that they would be supporting both platforms for a long time to come.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  5. Re:This is bullshit. by Redshift · · Score: 5, Informative

    1. If Rosetta works as well as demonstrated (Jobs showed unmodified PPC versions of Photoshop+filters and MS Office running happily and fast on the Intel Mac box) then this will be less painful than you think.

    2. The way the Intel and PowerPC raodmaps are going I think in three uears time there will be a HUGE difference in capability. Jobs was demoing a Pentium 3.6GHz quad for God's sake!

  6. Re:This is bullshit. by mangu · · Score: 4, Informative
    so long as you weren't using any Altivec-heavy apps (since SSE is a poor replacement)


    Do you have any evidence to back this assertion? Generally speaking, Altivec in the G5 has the same function and performance as SSE2 in the Pentium 4. I use floating point functions that I have developed and coded in assembly language myself, and I don't see any difference between Altivec and SSE2 at the fundamental level.


    Most of the derogatory comments by Apple users about the supposed shortcomings of SSE2 are ill informed, they seem to confuse SSE2 with MMX. Optimization for either the Altivec or SSE2 is a complex subject. First, one has to find an algorithm that works well for vector operations, which means making sure that add and multiply operations will overlap correctly. Then one has to adapt that algorithm for the cache size, CPU clock, and memory bus cycle times. The main problem here is to avoid starving the cache. One has to balance how many operations are done by the CPU for each byte that comes from/to RAM and make sure that the timing is right. All these factors vary a lot between different CPU, mobo, and RAM models. To state that Altivec is either better or worse than SSE2 is simplistic, they are functionally identical and the relative performance between them will be determined by secondary factors.


    The biggest problem in SSE2 is that the only compiler that optimizes it well is Intel's, gcc sucks when generating code for the P4, but with hand-optimized code this is irrelevant. If the Intel architecture that Apple will adopt has SSE2, this could be very good news for developers. Let's hope Apple implements efficient optimization for SSE2.

  7. Re:So here it is by Queer+Boy · · Score: 4, Informative
    Is apple going to sell prototypes of Apple Intel systems to any developer who wants to test their app?

    Yes, you should have read all the keynote transcripts. They did the same thing when the PowerPC came out, developers were given prototype 6100s as part of their developer kit.

    --
    Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
  8. Re:So here it is by MustardMan · · Score: 5, Informative

    As others have pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the dev kit includes the hardware. They aren't just shipping a Tiger CD you pop into your dell.

  9. Wrong...will actually make native OOo wait longer by soullessbastard · · Score: 4, Informative

    Disclaimer: I am an OpenOffice.org Mac OS X devleoper and a founder of the NeoOffice project

    Quote: This means OpenOffice.org 2.0 will work *now*. This means no more second-class Mac versions of popular OS apps.

    This statement couldn't actually be farther from the truth. In fact, it will actually make the push for OpenOffice.org, at least, more difficult. If you dig into the details it means there's much more work ahead:

    • Most Unix based apps don't use XCode. Just about all Linux and Unix derived applications use command line build systems. According to the information from Apple, universal binary support only applies to XCode based projects. With hundreds of thousands of files and a custom build system, it would take years just to get OpenOffice.org to build with XCode and it may not even be possible.
    • Delivery of fat binaries is impractical for large open source applications. A single platform binary of OOo already clocks in at greater than 100 MB. People already complain about that size. A true integrated universal binary would probably close to double that size (though perhaps less due to use of cisc). Downloaders will love that.
    • To compile will require the use of GCC 4.0. I don't know about other projects, but moving OpenOffice.org to new GCC versions is a real pain in the butt. Code doesn't compile, options change, the way things link change, but, more importantly...
    • Apple is using their own ABI. OpenOffice.org requires knowledge of the ABI in order to get UNO objects to communicate (the OOo incarnation of COM). This ABI glue is coded in assembly and is unique for each compiler on each architecture (e.g. the gcc 2 C++ ABI is different from 3, which is different from 4, etc.). Since Apple is using their own ABI, code from Linux or Windows can't simply be moved over even if it is the same compiler. No work can begin on an Intel port until the ABI is solidified.
    • Linux apps don't use Carbon/Cocoa. The transition to a native OpenOffice.org will still require the type of work we're doing in the NeoOffice project, the piecemeal replacement of X11 dependencies with native code. Most people who speak of a native OOo on a Mac don't give a hoot about X11, they want the one with the blue buttons.
    • Apple isn't offering hardware to people not in their developer programs. Few contributors to open source projects have funds already, but the fact that one has to be a member of one of their paying developer programs will make it even more difficult for Mac open source contributors to get a grasp on the Intel switch. It was bad enough with Tiger where we didn't have access to test things before it got released, and that was just software!

    Changing processors does nothing to help OpenOffice.org development on Mac OS X except slow it down yet again. Chances are you'll probably see it running in an emulator for a long time before it's running on Mactel hardware.

    ed

  10. Apple posts Intel docs; No OpenFirmware on x86 by Knytefall · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apple posted Intel Universal Binary documentation to their website. It's interesting, and everyone should read it. Notable is a caveat that OpenFirmware is going away. That seems to point towards more standard hardwware.

  11. CISC, RISC, and MMX by Creepy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Quite simply, Intel no longer uses CISC. Sure the instruction set is CISC, but it's all microcode reduced to RISC instructions underneath the hood (which was done WAAAY back with the Pentium II and may have partially been implemented on the original Pentium). MMX has been dead for a while, replaced by SIMD and SIMD2, which can actually run in parallel to the floating point unit and no longer requires a context switch. Seriously, though, outside of the math world, you probably don't need either unless you're doing software rendering of graphics - the original reason for MMX was to speed up processing of games and video effects in software and this work is now pretty much entirely handled by the GPU.

  12. Re:Have a taste... by TylerL82 · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to Apple's Universal Binary whitepaper (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/C onceptual/universal_binary/universal_binary.pdf), the Intel Macs will NOT be using Open Firmware...

    I can't wait to see what people are able to do (legitimately or not) with the x86 dev boxes...

  13. Re:Wrong...will actually make native OOo wait long by sidb · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apple's gcc supports universal (fat) binaries. XCode uses gcc for compilation, but it's just a wrapper. Gcc still works fine without it.

  14. Re:You're right.... dammit! by nikster · · Score: 4, Informative

    These new x86 processors have way more innovation in them than the 10 year old new and clean design of the PPC. They are not CISC processors anymore in that they internally are RISC/CISC hybrids. The PPC has grown in the other direction, and is now also a RISC/CISC hybrid.

    From an architectural standpoint, PPC is still a lot cleaner than x86. But the immense brainpower and $ that Intel has put behind x86 made it into something that is hard to beat even with a cleaner design.

    In the end, it's a matter of priorities: Intel had to go low-power and had the resources to develop this technology while the company line was going in the exact opposite direction (P4). Now they are killing with it. Even AMD is way behind regarding low power chips.
    IBM never wanted to commit the resources or people to make the G5 portable. They would have had to spend serious money - chip design is extremely expensive - and hire very very good people. IBM never had this commitment.

    Besides, I have this feeling that the G5 was designed with some P4-envy in mind: Huge pipeline, high clock speeds. And using lots of power and generating lots of heat... Intel had the Pentium-M as a 'plan B' for this boneheaded strategy, whereas Apple/IBM did not.