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Wi-Fi Coming on U.S. Domestic Flights
jvptoad writes "The NY Times is reporting that United Airlines has received approval to offer Wi-Fi Internet access on its planes. Although it will be over a year before the service is available, I wonder if this will impact the discussion on cell phone usage in planes (which seems to be centered around the annoyance of people talking loudly on the phone). Add a headset and Skype, and you don't need a cell phone to have loud, annoying phone conversations on an airplane."
repeat: uh, latency?
myselfmusic
Either that or get some good headphones, because if you start playing Duke Nukem on your laptop when I'm sitting next to you, I'll be showing you where the off switch is.
Sorry, your right to infringe on society ends where my eardrums attached to my body stuffed into a seat where your laptop requires you to lower your tray table for the whole flight begins.
And if you don't like it, fly first class.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
People should use the non-reg links when posting about a NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/06/technology/06uni ted.html?ex=1275710400&en=022fb6cd810b1719&ei=5090 &partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
What are the chances I'll be able to set up a Counter-Strike server on my flight to Washington?
Geek Of The Day, "A geeky place for geeky faces."
...has had wifi on its flights for a over a year now.
Sure the technology will be there (vonage, skype with 802.11 phones)...
but the jitter as your packet is relayed via satellite back to firma terra will be enough to discourage most calls (i have to imagine).
Still... real-time data connectivity while in the air will greatly increase my productivity while flying.
Now United needs to offer power injectors at each economy plus seat
I have to admit that I would probably use this quite a bit to check my email and play on the web on flights.
However, I'll miss the fact that there was a space where I couldn't do those things. There's so much pressure on people to be available all the time, that it was nice to have forced downtime.
I am overjoyed.
Statesmen serve to better the country and help the people.
Politicians serve to better themselves and help friends.
I flew LuftHansa (the German partner of United) 3 weeks ago as they were starting offering this service, and i did try it for free. It works pretty well. Normal cost is 10 bucks for an hour or 30 for the whole flight. Unfortunately, i was travelling in Economy where you can't plug your laptop. And Wifi drains my battery pretty fast. still managed to send emails from above some really remote places...
What is it with you people who get upset when people talk on a mobile phone? Do you also get annoyed at people talking face to face in your presence? Do all forms of conversation in which you are not involved annoy you, or is it just the ones using a form of technology?
Time for serious airpwnage. No, not the kind of pwnage that'll befall you for playing CS (namely wearing a headset and being prone to mutter things like "OK, 3 terrorists to the left, one's got a gun! Kill that fucker!" under your breath) on an airplane.
I'm talking about the amount of fun you can have when that annoying cellphone-addict using Skype to escape the withdrawal... you can already hear him from three seats behind of you, hollering to his wife and kids... and then the holler he makes when he finds himself airpwned!
Great... now the fat, sweaty, stupid, irritating, guy next to me on every single flight I've ever taken can now be surfing for horse pr0n and talking his ass off on his cell the whole flight.
You know, I've found that butter does wonders for keyboards. That and spilled coffee.
As to the cell phones, if he doesn't take the hint after the butter, apply that to the cell phone as well.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I guess it's pretty cool to be chatting and posting to slashdot while you're flying. It's just so much more l33t. Speaking of which... controlling your botnet from 30k feet in the sky must make it feel more special too.
How does this impact issues with interference of electronic devices? Is that problem solved to a degree that (even?) wi-fi and affiliated devices are not an issue?
see a Text Widget
For the longest time airlines were telling us not to use electronic gadgets, fearing "interference with the navigation system." Well, if they're OK with having bunch of passengers putting out 1 Watt each @ 2.4 GHz, how come they were objecting to the little blackberry (albeit at a different frequency) and other two way radio devices?
The crapper was a pretty exotic place to get on IRC from. Imagine it from 30,000ft ... on the crapper.
With this put an end to the ridiculous idea that listening to my ipod in row 38 can cripple the navigational instruments of an airliner?
If that pittance of an electrical field could have any appreciable impact on an airplane, any solar flare would result in the complete destruction of the world's airline fleet in a single day.
But! But! But...the terrorists will use it for...
And what about those dasterly in-fight phones on the back of the seats? They could call their terrorist friends today and plan their evil plans that way without Wi-Fi.
But! But!
Ahhhh, be quiet
Will the latency of this link be low enough to support decent response times for VoIP?
If they're using a satellite link (they must be), then your loud Skype+headset conversation will be just as uncomfortable for you to use as it is for others around you to observe.
"He-"
"Hello?"
"Huh?"
"What?"
"You started talk-"
"You began-"
"You go."
"No you... Go ahead!"
Damn satellite latency.
Never was an interference problem in the first place.
Oh well, what the hell...
It is not simply the duty of our government regulators to protect us from Loud Annoying Cell Phone Users. It is their duty to protect us from the very indignity of being annoyed, regardless of the source of that annoyance.
I for one will not be happy until we passengers are sedated in the terminal, packed in bubble-wrap, loading into the plane like cargo, and revived with a stiff drink at the destination.
Ah! The only way to travel!
I was on a plane a few weeks back and we set up a Ad-Hoc network and played CS on the plane(yes sound was off). I also text messaged on that flight, phones dont do anything to planes, neither does WiFi. Anyway I think its a great idea as long as people dont use their sound.
"If they lift the ban on cell-phone use, they better lift the ban on passengers beating the shit out of each other, too."
Actually, people seem to yell (or talk very loudly) into cell phones because...
:)
"I SAID that the reception sucks! Yes, SUCKS. Are you listening to me? No. Yes, no. TURN OF THAT NOISE DAMMIT - oh wait a second. Waitress, mind giving me an extra soda? Thanks.
No.
Yes.
No.
I _DO NOT_ appreciate yelling!
(at some point, someone tells me to lower my voice tone)
I can't help it, reception is awful, and look, if they allowed phones, it was for a reason.
Moron...
No, it wasn't to you.
No, i said it wasn't to you! There's this idiot next to me telling me to shut up.
Yes.
No.
FINALLY!! Well I have to go to the bathroom, I think that lobster is giving me nausea.
I said NAUSEA! Good bye!
*CHIRP*"
I hope that clarifies why it's annoying
... this for a while, I catch the Seattle -> Copenhagen flight on a regular basis.
I'm pleased to say that it (Boeing Conexion) seems to work pretty well. I can browse the web at a reasonable speed, let Outlook sync mail and on occasion have been able to log in and play WoW for an hour or so with no noticeable interruptions.
SAS will even let you pay for service using your miles from their frequent flier program.
I'm glad it will finally be on Domestic flights as well, this gives me a reason to choose United. (I have to agree with the lack of desire to see people using Skype over it though).
Three things.
1. Many kinds of radio receivers create a local "intermediate
frequence" (IF) version of the received signal at a much lower
frequency because it is easier for circuitry to deal with those low
frequencies. Unfortunately, this IF signal leaks out, and those
frequencies are close to those used for navigation. The FAA,
reasonably, objects to that.
2. Cellphones are based on the idea of short range communications
(from your phone to the celltower you could likely see if you knew
where to look) allowing the bandwidth you are using to be reused
many times in one city. When you turn on your phone in a plane at
high altitude, your phone (being far from any cell site) turns up
to full transmit power, and blankets several *states* worth of
territory. A lot of frequency reuse can't happen when you do that.
The FCC, reasonably, objects to this. (How can cellphones inside a
plane soon be allowed? By having a small cellsite inside the
plane, instructing phones on the plane to turn their transmit power
to the lowest setting.)
3. General purpose conservatism. A powerful transmitter (ham radio
anyone?) can also mess with lots of nearby electronics. Given all
of the confusion over what kind of electronics some device might
be, and given how pissed off you would be if your plane were
plummeting to earth because a bad decision, being conservative
might be OK, even with you.
This doesn't mean silly things don't happen. I was once (long ago)
told I couldn't listen to my CD player on a plane. The airline
uniformed backhaul "expert" told me that the CD player had a "laser!",
and it could interfere with the plane. Nonsense. I expressed
disbelief, suggesting that the laser was safely inside...but the
expert didn't buy it and he had authority over me so I shut it off.
However, just because he was completely wrong in his argument doesn't
mean that every airline safety rule (air in the tires?, gas in the
tank?, sober pilot at the wheel?, no shootouts happening on the
plane?) is silly.
-kb
1. you need to do physical installation into each seat
2. you need to run wires from each jack to some central location
3. the jacks and wire add up to a fair amount of extra mass, which means the plane needs more fuel and can carry less payload
4. not everyone carries an rj-45 patch cable, so the airline will need to keep some handy (yet more mass)
5. little kids will stuff action figures or food into the sockets, destroying them or even shorting the whole network out
Don't forget to hook up with a VPN if you're using in-flight wi-fi.
www.publicvpn.com works, and it's cheap!
Just a thought:
What jurisdiction does a plane flying over, say, international waters actually fall under - for example, is the inside of a US-registered plane considered to be US territory or do a generic set of International rules apply?
I just wondered as this might raise some interesting legal issues with regards to data protection etc. ie: emailing a customer database back to the office, downloading porn, sharing files or DMCA-infringing stuff etc.!!?? Mind you, hosting your DVD ripping apps at an altitude of 30,000ft over the Atlantic by constantly flying from NY to London and back is not going to come cheap!!
AT&ROFLMAO
Oh, and if you ever see me on a plane, make sure you are sitting next to me - I will be the guy in the safest row of seats.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
I've been told to remove completely non-electronic ear plugs during take-off (or was it landing?). The idea is in an emergency, when chaos is generally winning, they want to be able to shout that the front exits are on fire, so go out the rear exit--and they want you to be able to hear so you don't lumber in the wrong direction and block the aisle.
-kb
I was on a Lufthansa flight from Munich to Boston last week. Seemed to get about 270kb/s down & a not so good 40kb/s up. Latency was around 650ms to us and about 1.5% of packets were dropped.
I still managed to be productive, send somebody a bug fix 2 hours after take-off, IM, email etc. Definitely worth the $30 (and would have been worth $100 if the person in front didn't think he was at the dentist).
If the airlines don't want people using skype or VOIP in general, they can set up a firewall/proxy so it would not be possible.
:-)
yes, there are l33t hackers that would create a VPN tunnel via HTTP or some other such shit, but the majority of general public don't have any idea how to do that.
also, it could be a matter of policy - if they catch you being loud when you're not supposed to, they can tell you to stop, and if you don't - someone in a uniform will be waiting for you when you get off the plane
--- sig moved for great justice.
(I am a private pilot). If you are flying in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions - on instruments alone), you have placed the lives of your pax in the hands of the pilot and his instruments. There are no outside clues when things go wrong. See here
for the top 100 air disasters. Two of them were purely ILS failures.
I'm not so confident that it can't happen. There are numerous anecdotal stories in the industry of NAV equipment wandering off course. In 1999 there were 76 reported incidents of possible cellphone interference. On IMC, and especially when on approach, these have the potential to end in disaster.
I've found the best way to deal with someone like this is to order pickled onions/ salami/ anything that gives shocking bad breath and then breath, heavily and slowly as close the the headrest as possible. Fart loudly if you can. Pick your nose and wipe it on their headrest. Occasionally say your name and clap three times. Have a converstation about your most recient bowel movements with the person infront of you, if they don't speak your language all the better, if they do consider making up a language in which to talk to them. No one wants to be near a disgusting smelly nut, much less talk to one.
I discovered this by accident one day, however try the following - I've repeated it on several keyboards.
-Type on your keyboard via such exercises as posting a troll on Slashdot.
-Now, dial on your cell phone, and while it's negotiating, move the cell phone near the wire on the back of your cellphone.
-Continue typing your troll.
In my instance the cell phone transmission rendered the keyboard useless, as it interfered with the communications. I wouldn't want the same thing happening in a plane. Of course having a cell phone directly beside a cable is vastly different from it being near controls or control wires many feet away, but better safe than sorry.