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Rob Pike's Excellent Adventure

Posted by timothy on from the good-work-if-you-can-get-it dept.

Frisky070802 writes "The Newark Star-Ledger has an article about Rob Pike's move from Bell Labs to Google. The article has some interesting points, such as how Pike took a "huge pay cut" to go there just to work on cool things. And in a nostalgia trip for those others of us who've walked the halls of Bell Labs, the article compares earlier days at Bell Labs to the heady days at Google (Claude Shannon on a unicycle, and the famous Penn & Teller trick on Arno Penzias, then the head of Bell Labs research). Most of all are the differences in real-world impact: 'But products trickled slowly, if ever, from [Bell Labs]. They blast from Google at hyperspeed.'" (Painless demographic-only jump-through screen to read it.)

38 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. Captain Pike! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    How does the guy interact with other workers if he only has a single light to communicate with?

  2. For anyone else wondering... by still_sick · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... what the Famous Penn and Teller trick was...

    http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:xJ536HFTXwIJ: cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/labscam.html+penn+t eller+arno&hl=en

    --
    ...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
    1. Re:For anyone else wondering... by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Funny
      [..] in order to create a coherent video.

      Darn! Bell Labs invented a method of producing coherent light, but the secret of producing coherent videos hasn't escaped to the outside world yet.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  3. "trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps, but then again, weren't they responsible for a few minor things such as ... the Transistor? The Laser? Unix? Arguably 3 of the most important inventions of the past 100 years?

    1. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by JohnTheFisherman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah...I've seen the soaring stock price of Google (market cap beats AOL/TW now, yeah, uh...wow) and I'm wondering when it's going to collapse. They provide some nice free things for the web, but their advertising revenue can't come close to justifying their $80B value.

      What do they do that makes money? Believe me, I know there's more to life than money, but that's pretty much the main factor in the stock valuation.

      --
      +5:offtopic,but anti-American
    2. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by Danger+Stevens · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Their Adsense program has pushed their revenue through the roof. They make several hundred million dollars a year from their advertising sector.

      It's not really the revenue that makes them worth so much though, it's their profit margins. The way they publish high quality software has made them into a company that only needs a fraction of what it earns. This means huge potential for growth.

      I'd say the current ruler of the internet with an outrageous income could easily be worth $80B.

      --
      World Changing - News for Humans, Stuff about our planet
    3. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Were those things really invented by Bell Labs? I know Unix was devolped there, but I thought the transistor and laser were invented elsewhere.

      AFAIK:
      The transistor was invented by Julius Lilienfeld in the 1920's.
      The first (microwave) laser was built at Columbia University.
      The first optical laser was built at Hughes Research Laboratories.

    4. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by Screaming+Lunatic · · Score: 3, Informative
      Yeah...I've seen the soaring stock price of Google (market cap beats AOL/TW now, yeah, uh...wow) and I'm wondering when it's going to collapse. They provide some nice free things for the web, but their advertising revenue can't come close to justifying their $80B value.

      The stock market is not about revenue. It is about expected revenue. Currently Google's P/E ratio is at about 115. However, their one-year Forward P/E ratio is about 45. Which isn't that bad for a company that just had an IPO.

      Plus, they also have quarterly revenue growth of about 95% and quarterly earnings growth of 475%.

      AOL/TW has never done that. AOL/TW will never do that.

      What do they do that makes money?

      I don't know. But they have revenue of $3.79B and a gross profit of $1.73B for the last 12 months.

      http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GOOG

    5. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by nomadic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Google will never, ever come anywhere close to the importance of Bell Labs. Ever.

      And I can't think of a single real innovation that came from Google. What, a really effective way of indexing web pages? That's not innovation.

    6. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by georgewilliamherbert · · Score: 2, Informative
      Google groups basically archiving all of usenet back to 1982 or something.
      Google groups is now hosting an evolving archive that started as DejaNews, plus Henry Spencer's tape collection from the 1980s, plus other independent archives and some gap-filling.

      While those of us in the Usenet community widely applaud Google for their adopting and continued hosting of the archives, it wasn't their idea to start with. Permanent (nonsearchable) archives started with Henry's tapes, over 25 years ago. DejaNews made it searchable. Google figured out how to make enough money doing it to justify having done so and the continuing operations.

      Google's doing a lot of good in the world, and making a lot of money off doing it. But there's no reason to give them credit for everything good that's out there. Doing that tends to slight historical contributions and effort of others.

      But good on Google for all sorts of other things they have done!

    7. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's got a P/E of 115. that's almost 10x what most investment resourses will tell you is a reasonable level. Think of it this way: if all those earnings were profit and they issued that to shareholders as dividends, you'd make less than 1% on your money. You would do better in a bank account. Its price is rising faster than that can only mean one thing: it's going to burst.. it has to.. unless they grow a lot. and quickly.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    8. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Informative
      Lilenfeld had a schematic and a patent, but he didn't have a working prototype (he was ahead of his time and the technology prevented it).

      Bell Labs actually built a working one. Although it turned out to have a lot of uses outside telephony, Bell Labs provided the need for it and the R/D funding.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    9. Re:"trickled slowly from Bell Labs"? by georgewilliamherbert · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Dejas only went back to 1995 though didn't they? Google's innovation was to extend the archive back to 1982. Granted Henry Spencer's tapes were used, but no one else has put them online complete back to 1982 as far as I know.
      Basically, Google helped right at the end of a roughly decade-long process to get the tapes available online...

      See for example David Wiseman's history of the recovery or the Salon.com overview article.

      In summary, Google only really started encouraging the tape restore project about six months before groups.google.com kicked off. The idea of restoring Henry's tapes had been widely thought of in the 1990s, and Wiseman had picked them up to start the project, but it took some years to accomplish, along with help from various people and some equipment from Brewster Kahle.

      And I'm leaving out a bunch of stuff. I won't try and credit everyone involved in the process here, but it was lots of people. Good on all of them.

  4. New Google product coming? by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Funny

    VOIP GooglePhone? They could combine it with their search engine and social networking. I can't wait to try that I'm Feeling Lucky button on my dialing screen, woohoo!

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    1. Re:New Google product coming? by Omnieiunium · · Score: 4, Funny

      And in the middle of the phone call, in a smaller voice, you will hear ads about what you are talking about.

    2. Re:New Google product coming? by jcuervo · · Score: 5, Funny
      Heh, that'd be some interesting phonesex.
      Male: I'm taking off my pants.
      Google: Mens' pants. Sale on Docker's. www.pants.com
      Female: Ooooh, I'm touching myself.
      Google: UNIX manpages - touch(1)
      Male: I bring out the goats.
      Google: Everything you ever wanted to know about herpes.
      Still better than Clippy.

      I see you're having sex. Would you like me to:
      ( ) Videotape it
      ( ) Watch
      ( ) Hold the bucket of cheez-whiz
      --
      Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
  5. Love Rob Pike by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 4, Funny

    With him over at Google, it will be pretty cool to see the Google system ported onto Plan9.

  6. products? where by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "...products blast from google..."

    uh, where? i can't think of one tangible product google has ever produced...

    bell labs on the other hand... oh lets see... how about... THE TRANSISTOR

  7. A bit premature to compare to Bell? by dabacon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't it a bit premature to compare Google to Bell labs? I mean here are some things that happened at Bell labs: the invention of the transistor, the discovery the cosmic background radiation, a major role in the invention of the laser, the discovery of the mathematical theory of communication, the invention of the solar cell, etc. etc. While I love Google, I don't think they've quite lived up to Bell labs legacy quite yet (but here's hoping they decide to spend billions on fundamental research!)

    1. Re:A bit premature to compare to Bell? by kognate · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But they _are_ spending billions on fundamental research. What do you think the "20% of your time on personal projects" is?

      They get to do fundamental research much more cheaply than places like Bell Labs do. This is partly because you're projects could go on for years and never get cancelled. And you get a massive amount of computing resources at your disposal.

    2. Re:A bit premature to compare to Bell? by ebuck · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree.

      Google came up with the idea that popularity (in terms of links) makes a good algorithim to index the Internet, also they came up with the idea that you could serve such an index on a large cluster of cheap machines, instead of a few big expensive ones.

      All the other stuff they came up with afterwards wasn't very revolutionary. Web mail? Weather service? Statistic / Index pages? Educational indexes? Specific domain searches? Good services, but not revolutionary.

      Bell labs came up with a lot of theory. They created programming languages (B anyone?), operating systems (UNIX and Plan9), compilers, tools, and much, much more, like:

      # The first synchronous-sound motion pictures
      # Stereophonic sound
      # Speech synthesis
      # The cathode-ray tube
      # The radio altimeter
      # Radio astronomy
      # The laser
      # Solar cells
      # Coaxial cable
      # Radiotelescopes
      # Radar systems

      And that's not counting the nearly 25000 patents (most filed way before the great US patent give-away). They've made significant contributions to the fields of Physics, Mathematics, Communications, Computer Science, Astronomy, Aviation, Military Defense, and Power Generation, just to name a few.

      Google's got some good stuff, don't get me wrong, but they need to expand thier scope, double thier output, and hang around for another 80 years if they want to top the accolades Bell Labs has accquired.

      ---
      Yes, yes, we all know who invented the transistor.

    3. Re:A bit premature to compare to Bell? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Having also recently left Bell Labs it's safe to say at least Bell Labs is dead. You can tell when they close 70% of the bathrooms and shut off every other hallway of lights. All the smart people left, or are semi-retired, most of them before I even joined. It did so many great things in the past century but the executives have a very short memory and sadly ignore any new ideas originating from their own R&D, instead relying on "wall stree sources" or ambiguous "industry trends" which fly in the face of common sense to most of us.

      It's probably worthwile to use this latest defection to hold a belated funeral. Plan 9 is probably the last semi-useful project we'll see from that place. I'm also not real sure that Google is the future, so far they're short on product and long on ambiance. Research is fine but unless it's funded by academic sources you gotta have a product too. Ultimately that's what did Bell Labs in.

    4. Re:A bit premature to compare to Bell? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bell Labs used to make stuff that was truly excellent, so I have to disagree with you on that. Most of modern electrical engineering is based on principles developed or derived from subjects they pioneered.

      The propaganda started about 25 years ago, around the time the illegal monopoly got what was coming to it. That I agree with.

      I know blaming executives is in vogue, but I've worked with the ones in question. The level of corruption (and derived confusion) in that company is epic. I have first hand experiences with how they operate there. It's not trivial finger pointing, it's real. And it's entrenched. Now that I work elsewhere in a far more legit (although less imaginative) environment, I feel very vindicated in this opinion.

    5. Re:A bit premature to compare to Bell? by jrootham · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My Dad worked at Bell Canada for many years. He claims that the high profits on military contracts did Bell Labs in for producing commercial products because the engineers lost cost discipline skills. Ma Bell broke a long term association (not sure when, 70's 80's?) because they weren't getting good product stuff.

      It's one thing to be not mind boggling strong on current products when you are doing basic resaerch and kicking out things like transistors every decade or so. But making money hand over fist with $500 toilet seats will tend to lose you some respect.

      Note the dates on the good stuff mentioned earlier. Almost none of it past 1970.

    6. Re:A bit premature to compare to Bell? by drsquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What fundamental research is this? All I see from Google is web applications that have been done a million times before, but with slightly different interfaces. Excuse me if I'm not blown away by that. That 20% is only one day a week. What can you do in one day a week?

      I wouldn't describe them working at hyperspeed either. I mean gmail has been at the beta stage for how long? Remember this is a WEBMAIL service we're talking about, not a fusion reactor. It's a service which has a million equivalents on the Internet, gmail having a slightly slicker interface and some more disk space. That's it.

      Are there any companies doing fast-paced, ground-breaking research these days? Or do they all just chase profits based on existing stagnant business models?

  8. Oh Brother by jfonseca · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh Big Brother that is!

    If Google is to become what it seems to be morphing into we may well be staring at the next Microsoft.
    Remember Microsoft had similar early days, chaotic work environment, great brains, a management that hired more great brains....

    And...guys....they now have Rob Pike on the team. C'mon, concede already! Google has style.

    The question is...why not just go with the already existing Microsoft? Do we need another giant? I guess we do.

    --
    Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa
  9. Re:Academic research making a difference by toddbu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hmm, are you suggesting that the next big advance is going to come from academia? Or are you suggesting that it's the younger generation that will give us the next big push? You shouldn't necessarily tie the two together. There are a lot of really bright young kids coming out of our colleges these days, but I'm not sure how much the schools themselves are doing to advance their education. Ever look at a current version of a computer science text? Not much that's interesting there, other than the $200+ price tag. I'd like to think that in many situations these students are doing well in spite of the lack of support that they're getting from their educational institutions.

    --
    If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
  10. How did he get a job at Google? by nxtr · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did he get an invite?

  11. Trickle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    'But products trickled slowly, if ever, from [Bell Labs]. They blast from Google at hyperspeed.'" (Painless demographic-only jump-through screen to read it.)

    Well, I guess:
    1) ISDN
    2) ATM
    3) SONET
    4) SS7 with respect to use external links to control messaging (aka out of band-signaling)

    Well, that is to name a few. Don't forget, Lucent is former bell labs and at one point they were putting out 2 patents a day. Not that I support pattens, but their is a lot of technology that comes out of the labs.

    5) Something called UNIX.

    1. Re:Trickle by Forbman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe not the software, but if we could look at the algorithms and system management software they use, it might be a different story.

      Part of their skill seems to be identifying and developing efficient and simple ways to do what everyone else has done so far in a bloated, complicated fashion, both in execution and implementation.

  12. "Trickle" from Bell Labs? by birge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bell Labs has produced some incredibly important things: The femtosecond laser, which is one of the most important tools of chemistry and physics today. The radio telescope. Modern communications theory. A lot of basic electrical engineering theory from microwaves. I'm missing a ton of stuff, obviously, but you catch my drift.

    I suppose it's a little harder to come out with stuff once a week when what you're doing is a little more significant and deep than pretty scrolling maps. Comparing Google to the old Bell Labs is ridiculous, and suggesting that "PageRank" somehow compares to the scientific breakthroughs that occurred at Bell Labs is an insult to the people that worked there. I love Google, but it's not particle physics.

    Let's wait to see how many Nobel prizes come out of Google labs.

  13. Re:All I can think about is Apple right now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    You idiot! This is a Google thread! Some smart rich guy has joined Google! There he will tweak software! Rejoice!

    There's just no room for your depression here on this fantastic day, son.

  14. Re:Just like Ron Howard by adpowers · · Score: 2

    I know, really. I searched this out myself when the story came out and my download has gone from a measly 34 kBps to a pitiful 7.7 kBps. Thanks for linking to it! :(

  15. Wow by asciiRider · · Score: 3, Funny

    So every time I read an article about how great google is, it is usally about how the greatest minds in computer science are mostly having lunch and working on 'personal' projects .....

    No wonder they come up with such mind boggling products like: Email, News, News Groups, Online Shopping.

  16. Dear Slashdot by learn+fast · · Score: 4, Funny

    Please stop making me feel bad for not working at Google.

    Thank you,

    learn fast

  17. Uh... by keepper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    did you miss the part about him being hired PRE IPO.?

    In any case, that little gesture of him taking lesser salary, probably got him a few tens of thousands more options at the cool price of $0.99... So guess who is the "wuss" now.

    HEH

  18. No, the transistor was not invented at Bell Labs. by btarval · · Score: 2, Informative
    While everyone seems to accept as fact that Bell Labs invented the transistor, they really didn't. Transistors had been around for quite a long time before the Bell Labs team made their announcement. Alas, even the wonderful Wikipedia is horribly wrong on this point.

    What Bell Labs DID invent was the first Silicon Transistor. This was revolutionary. But to give them the credit for the first Transistor is to dismiss a lot of research which went on before this, as well as to show a general ignorance on the history of Electronics.

    It would be similar to all of us forgetting the invention of the Silicon Transistor, when Electron Transistors replace them.

    For example, the first Field Effect Transistor (FET) was patented by Dr. Julius Lilienfeld of Germany in 1926. Lilienfeld had other patents, such as patent 1,900,018.

    But the bottom line is that transistors were well-known long before 1948; it would be utterly silly to think that a lot of new concepts simply sprouted out of nowhere. It is far more accurate to say that Bell Labs took the old concepts and pushed the envelope, by applying them to a new area.

    And it's certainly silly to say that Bell Labs invented the transistor. Please, it's the silicon transistor that they invented.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
  19. Re:No, the transistor was not invented at Bell Lab by gwm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But this is true of any invention; Bell Labs no more "invented" the transistor than Thomas Edison "invented" the light bulb or James Watt "invented" the steam engine. Sure, they made huge contributions--and deserve all credit for that--but they did so by standing on the shoulders of generations of other great scientists and engineers.
    It is a characteristic of human nature that we insist on simple answers to complicated questions, on convenient labels for complex entities.