The blatant crypto racism is exhibited in most of these posts... Guess what, your reaction is what proves the racism, not your quasi logical statements explaining your reaction...
No one bother to read the opposing views, or the reason why this was brought it.. just an immediate.. " Those women and brownies always want to be included... reverse racism"
To quote a SPEAKER that realized this after the fact
So I started asking around. I thought of all the prominent non-white-dude Ruby conference speakers I could in the space of a couple minutes. Just people who came easily to mind, nobody too obscure. I wanted to know if they had been invited to be part of that initial group of 15, and had said no.
Sandi Metz. Bryan Liles. Reg Braithwaite. Angela Harms. Sarah Mei. Katrina Owen (Norway). Keavy McMinn (Scotland). None of these people were invited to be part of the initial line-up. In fact, I couldn’t find a single woman or minority Rubyist who had been invited to be part of that 15.
Oh.. that changes the picture... doesn't it?
This whole "the world isnt racist anymore so just get over it" is a bunch of BULLSHIT. It's been barely a generation in most areas.. heck, we have people in the south holding to grudges and behaviors 6-9 generations deep. But someone, racist behaviour is supposed to be completely expunged in one generation, and well, any mention of it just shows reverse racism... bleh.. most of the above posters disgust me.
Oh nice.. another ( i'm hollier than though morality ) comment
Brought to you by(tm).... the internet... a DARPA/(Military industrial complex) sponsored project.... Made possible by (tm).. Xray litography... another child of a military sponsored project...
I couldn't agree more. The current economic system isn't ready for what will ( not would ) happen when the service and manufacturing industries are fully automated. ( which is my main gripe against free market types )
Out of their possible viable partners, Yahoo is the only one that is not a direct competitor.
Google, with its all gooey-dooey not do evil mantra, has become a bigger competitor, and likely a conflct of interest, to the Mozilla foundation. Kinda like they did to Apple..
Why does google get to charge this? They get the kickback FROM the carrier, so have the carrier do the ETF.
Why does the carrier AND google, get to charge fees? Not even the iPhone, a phone that carries a higher retail value without a plan, do such a high termination fee.
It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot. It can have the cake, the party, eat the cake, and snuff the party goers, and all is well in slashdot-google-fanboy land.
So I wanted to find out more about this author....
Eric Spiegel is CEO and co-founder of XTS, which provides software for planning, managing and auditing Citrix and other virtualization platforms.
This web site at www.xtsinc.com has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences.
CLASSIC, so much for "smarter white collared developers";)
But I digress...
Look, plain and simple, in the field of software development, education means NOTHING. Why you ask? because unlike true engineering, there are no globally studied curriculums. Now, you may argue about this all you want, but these are facts. CS programs vary so wildly, it's amazing.
Secondly, since most developers don't do any actually engineering, those core CS principles rarely come to play.
That being said, what matters is the individual. There are huge differences from people that went to a tech school 'cause it was cool, someone that went to a top tier school, someone that dropped out ( for any of the reasons ), someone that went to a mediocre schoo, and someone that skipped college and just wanted to speed up their career.
But usually, those differences boil down more so to "candidate pools", and who they "mostly attract".
The good developers, come from all walks. They are the people that go beyond the taught knowledge ( wherever this knowledge may have come from ), and actually understand things from a raw, as close to true engineering perspective as possible, view.
But what do i know, I'm one of those that went to a top tier ivy, EE btw, and then decided to leave on his third year because it was too boring.
So you say its hard to package your software? Most scripting languages have modules that allow you to automatically build rpm or debs. Java and C are also trivial to general.spec or deb definition files. Its at most a few days worth of work for one person, and weeks of work in savings.
The thing you are not getting, is that with packages, and the infrastructure to support them, you only do the hard work ONCE. So you say its hard to package your software?
A good systems engineer or admin, knows that sometimes taking a little time more to setup things right in the first place, saves an invalable amount of time later.
And to your staff snide.. well, i've managed 300 os installs ( virtual and physical ), with only a developer as a release engineer and me as the admin. Yes, eventually we needed more admins, but it was because of the complexity of our environment, and SLA's, not because of the work of packaging + deployment.
Its amazing, how this seemingly obvious question, always gets weird and overly complex answers.
Think about how every unix os handles this. Packaging!
Without getting into a flame war about the merits of any packaging systems:
- Use your native distributions packaging system. - Create a naming convention for pkgs ( ie, web-fronted-php-1.2.4, web-prod-configs-1.27 ) - Use meta-packages ( packages, whose only purpose is to list out what makes out a complete systems ) - Make the developers package their software, or write scripts for them to do so easily ( this is a lot easier than it seems ) - Put your packages in different repositories ( dev for dev servers, stg for staging systems,qa for qa systems , prod for production, etc et c - Use other system management tools to deploy said packages ( either your native package manager, or puppet, cfgengine, func, sshcmd scripts, etc )
And the pluses? you always know absolutely whats running on your system. You can always reproduce and clone a systems.
It takes discipline, but this is how its done in large environments.
...and that's what has brought both his genius, and his impractical arrogance. He sees the world as a series of yes/no, black/white,1/0 events.
He doesn't compromise, he detests those who disagree with him. while he has brought the gnu license, emacs, and assorted gnu utilities..
- He never finished hurd. - Constantly criticizes Linus as basically a heretic. - Doesn't believe in the use of cell phones. - Doesn't believe in personal hygiene. - Thinks Bill gates is geniunely evil ( as a person, not the MS guy ), to the point of criticizing the charity work of his foundation.. in his view, who the fuck cares about aids research and feeding the poor, he didnt give us the source code::sigh:: - Among may other things that would brand the common man an insane diagnosis.
He probably suffers from some form of Asberger, or at least has some other mental illness.
Which has again, brought us free software users many goods... but you have to always be awared of the bad.
Richard Stallman, right or wrong, makes as much sense as "my mom, drunk or sober" ( yes, i stole that remark:-P)
The comment wasn't fully aimed at you. I actually agree with most of your points. Hence why engineers now have the whole, professional engineer title.
Quite aware of Comp Sys Eng, as my major was Electrical Engineering as well. ( although, im one of those so called "drop out", because I left at the end of my third year at cornell on a leave, to join the dotcom craze, heck, i'm still technically a matriculated student, 11 years later lol)
I see the systems engineer role in IT, and perhaps due to my experience, as more in tune to the original role created out of large engineering projects. There needed to be engineers that were looking at the big picture, but knew enough on how individual components worked, to best utilize, integrate, and manage them.
ie, what I have done in the last few companies, aside from the normal sysadmin role, is to see projects from conception to completion. From sitting down at design meetings, to reviewing design documents, to setting general system rules, to figuring out network and systems architecture, to doing code walk thrus ( verbal ones most of the time), to devising launch strategies, etc etc. Many of the projects come out of the sys engineering team, having dev's be a resource to sysadmins ( the way it works at google.com btw, with their SRE team, as well as many other companies )
My real peeve though, is that somehow, many devs, while doing no more different work than a cert monkey, somehow feel "holier than though".
In the end though, most people that get to do interesting work are usually either highly motivated, or lucky. And those come in both the sys admin/eng word, and in development.
Look, a true sys admin or systems engineer is truer to "engineering" than "CS" is to "science".
Most CS graduates are venerable code drones, doing fixes and minor features at the helm of Pm's. That sounds more like a janitor to me.
Sys admin work is true systems engineering. iow, building complex systems out of building blocks. Way more interesting than being a code monkey for the most part.
Uh... you guys do know that "engine"er comes from a trade? right? ( it was the guy that conducted, fixed the trains;) )
Oh wait, I'm sure you both have your PE's. Right?
Its funny seeing programmers, because computer scientist you surely are not, bitch about the engineer title. Then I ask them if they have their PE, which is based on Apprenticeship, and then love to see their blank stare lol
"what's a pe?"
Look, while there are many unqualified and cert monkeys passing themselves as sysadmin, a true sysadmin, systems engineer is closer to the true meaning of an engineer, then someone with a CS degree is.
The role of the sysadmin, is a true systems engineer ( look up that meaning too, you'll see).
A true sys. admin, or systems engineer in IT, looks at the whole system, and uses components as building blocks to a scalable and stable architecture.
I agree on the war thing - resisting wars of opportunity or adventure is very different from wars of defence of yourselves or of clearly, obviously imperilled others.
Why do you think this is? Why do you feel, that a war of defense is different
( I actually agree, but i'm trying to get you to see a point here )
I don't feel I owe anyone a debt though. I feel thankful that those people did come before me, but I also feel despair that seemingly everyone keeps getting the whole "free society" thing completely wrong, that we're scaring ourselves back in time and out of our own liberties, where we should be strengthening them.
There's an old saying, who's wording I always forget, but goes something like
"the ingrate never looks at the helping/feeding hand"
What makes us the most capable animal, aside from the opposable thumbs, is our sense of comunity, of "society". This i what makes countries. But I'm digressing...
The old adage, nothing is ever free. "free" societies, come at a price. This has always, and will always, be true.
Not that anywhere I go is going to be better, I just think there will be some lag time before I catch up with all the badness. And I can probably put up with a lot more if I live somewhere that isn't so damn cold and miserable most of the time.
Ahh, the truth comes out, you just hate cold weather.. LOL..
Just move to the carribbean!!! I find that getting laid often and going on hot weather vacations does wonders for my nationalism LOL...
Slashdot Mirror
*should use a spell check before submitting lol...
The blatant crypto racism is exhibited in most of these posts... Guess what, your reaction is what proves the racism, not your quasi logical statements explaining your reaction...
No one bother to read the opposing views, or the reason why this was brought it.. just an immediate.. " Those women and brownies always want to be included... reverse racism"
To quote a SPEAKER that realized this after the fact
So I started asking around. I thought of all the prominent non-white-dude Ruby conference speakers I could in the space of a couple minutes. Just people who came easily to mind, nobody too obscure. I wanted to know if they had been invited to be part of that initial group of 15, and had said no.
Sandi Metz. Bryan Liles. Reg Braithwaite. Angela Harms. Sarah Mei. Katrina Owen (Norway). Keavy McMinn (Scotland). None of these people were invited to be part of the initial line-up. In fact, I couldn’t find a single woman or minority Rubyist who had been invited to be part of that 15.
Oh.. that changes the picture... doesn't it?
This whole "the world isnt racist anymore so just get over it" is a bunch of BULLSHIT. It's been barely a generation in most areas.. heck, we have people in the south holding to grudges and behaviors 6-9 generations deep. But someone, racist behaviour is supposed to be completely expunged in one generation, and well, any mention of it just shows reverse racism... bleh.. most of the above posters disgust me.
Oh nice.. another ( i'm hollier than though morality ) comment
Brought to you by(tm).... the internet... a DARPA/(Military industrial complex) sponsored project....
Made possible by (tm).. Xray litography... another child of a military sponsored project...
I can keep going. :)
go with your BS somewhere else..
I couldn't agree more. The current economic system isn't ready for what will ( not would ) happen when the service and manufacturing industries are fully automated. ( which is my main gripe against free market types )
Extra Extra.. Google Now Evil (tm)... So much for that ;)
If you steal your own wallet back from a pickpocket, you're not going to jail.
Tell that to O.J. Simpson... he's in jail for trying to steal back his own stuff ;)
"uh... HELL NO!!!!"
You are not zapping my #@&$ with sperm death ray!
The iphone still rules the "total experience dept". Even after trying two android phones, I came back running.
FP?
How does search technology have anything to do with browser wars? ( well, directly )
MS has its own browser
Google has its own browser
Yahoo doesn't
Those are the three big search engines, and they only choices to generate revenue like they do know, as a homepage destination.
Out of their possible viable partners, Yahoo is the only one that is not a direct competitor.
Google, with its all gooey-dooey not do evil mantra, has become a bigger competitor, and likely a conflct of interest, to the Mozilla foundation. Kinda like they did to Apple..
Come. The. Freak. On. !!
Why does google get to charge this? They get the kickback FROM the carrier, so have the carrier do the ETF.
Why does the carrier AND google, get to charge fees? Not even the iPhone, a phone that carries a higher retail value without a plan, do such a high termination fee.
It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot. It can have the cake, the party, eat the cake, and snuff the party goers, and all is well in slashdot-google-fanboy land.
Come on guys.
So I wanted to find out more about this author....
Eric Spiegel is CEO and co-founder of XTS, which provides software for planning, managing and auditing Citrix and other virtualization platforms.
This web site at www.xtsinc.com has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences.
CLASSIC, so much for "smarter white collared developers" ;)
But I digress...
Look, plain and simple, in the field of software development, education means NOTHING. Why you ask? because unlike true engineering, there are no globally studied curriculums. Now, you may argue about this all you want, but these are facts. CS programs vary so wildly, it's amazing.
Secondly, since most developers don't do any actually engineering, those core CS principles rarely come to play.
That being said, what matters is the individual. There are huge differences from people that went to a tech school 'cause it was cool, someone that went to a top tier school, someone that dropped out ( for any of the reasons ), someone that went to a mediocre schoo, and someone that skipped college and just wanted to speed up their career.
But usually, those differences boil down more so to "candidate pools", and who they "mostly attract".
The good developers, come from all walks. They are the people that go beyond the taught knowledge ( wherever this knowledge may have come from ), and actually understand things from a raw, as close to true engineering perspective as possible, view.
But what do i know, I'm one of those that went to a top tier ivy, EE btw, and then decided to leave on his third year because it was too boring.
www.daylife.com
hehe, shameless plug. But seriously, the future of news is curation and aggregation. :)
Yeah, agreed. Most people get scared of the work, not realizing the savings in time later.
Missed a part..
So you say its hard to package your software? Most scripting languages have modules that allow you to automatically build rpm or debs. Java and C are also trivial to general .spec or deb definition files. Its at most a few days worth of work for one person, and weeks of work in savings.
Automation is key!
What's hard about building packages?
The thing you are not getting, is that with packages, and the infrastructure to support them, you only do the hard work ONCE. So you say its hard to package your software?
A good systems engineer or admin, knows that sometimes taking a little time more to setup things right in the first place, saves an invalable amount of time later.
And to your staff snide.. well, i've managed 300 os installs ( virtual and physical ), with only a developer as a release engineer and me as the admin. Yes, eventually we needed more admins, but it was because of the complexity of our environment, and SLA's, not because of the work of packaging + deployment.
Its amazing, how this seemingly obvious question, always gets weird and overly complex answers.
Think about how every unix os handles this. Packaging!
Without getting into a flame war about the merits of any packaging systems:
- Use your native distributions packaging system.
- Create a naming convention for pkgs ( ie, web-fronted-php-1.2.4, web-prod-configs-1.27 )
- Use meta-packages ( packages, whose only purpose is to list out what makes out a complete systems )
- Make the developers package their software, or write scripts for them to do so easily ( this is a lot easier than it seems )
- Put your packages in different repositories ( dev for dev servers, stg for staging systems,qa for qa systems , prod for production, etc et c
- Use other system management tools to deploy said packages ( either your native package manager, or puppet, cfgengine, func, sshcmd scripts, etc )
And the pluses? you always know absolutely whats running on your system. You can always reproduce and clone a systems.
It takes discipline, but this is how its done in large environments.
-
...and that's what has brought both his genius, and his impractical arrogance. He sees the world as a series of yes/no, black/white,1/0 events.
He doesn't compromise, he detests those who disagree with him. while he has brought the gnu license, emacs, and assorted gnu utilities..
- He never finished hurd. ::sigh::
- Constantly criticizes Linus as basically a heretic.
- Doesn't believe in the use of cell phones.
- Doesn't believe in personal hygiene.
- Thinks Bill gates is geniunely evil ( as a person, not the MS guy ), to the point of criticizing the charity work of his foundation.. in his view, who the fuck cares about aids research and feeding the poor, he didnt give us the source code
- Among may other things that would brand the common man an insane diagnosis.
He probably suffers from some form of Asberger, or at least has some other mental illness.
Which has again, brought us free software users many goods... but you have to always be awared of the bad.
Richard Stallman, right or wrong, makes as much sense as "my mom, drunk or sober" ( yes, i stole that remark :-P)
It's interesting to hear this, coming from someone that had a similar experience.
I've always wondered whether my self perceived lazyness was a product of my personality, or the fact that I had such an easy time in K-12.
( Then again, in what am interested in, i'm FAR from lazy... )
Centos is arguably the biggest used "upstream distro" out there... and it's not even listed!!
What gives?
Bah!
The comment wasn't fully aimed at you. I actually agree with most of your points. Hence why engineers now have the whole, professional engineer title.
Quite aware of Comp Sys Eng, as my major was Electrical Engineering as well. ( although, im one of those so called "drop out", because I left at the end of my third year at cornell on a leave, to join the dotcom craze, heck, i'm still technically a matriculated student, 11 years later lol)
I see the systems engineer role in IT, and perhaps due to my experience, as more in tune to the original role created out of large engineering projects. There needed to be engineers that were looking at the big picture, but knew enough on how individual components worked, to best utilize, integrate, and manage them.
ie, what I have done in the last few companies, aside from the normal sysadmin role, is to see projects from conception to completion. From sitting down at design meetings, to reviewing design documents, to setting general system rules, to figuring out network and systems architecture, to doing code walk thrus ( verbal ones most of the time), to devising launch strategies, etc etc. Many of the projects come out of the sys engineering team, having dev's be a resource to sysadmins ( the way it works at google.com btw, with their SRE team, as well as many other companies )
My real peeve though, is that somehow, many devs, while doing no more different work than a cert monkey, somehow feel "holier than though".
In the end though, most people that get to do interesting work are usually either highly motivated, or lucky. And those come in both the sys admin/eng word, and in development.
Computer janitor, huh?
Look, a true sys admin or systems engineer is truer to "engineering" than "CS" is to "science".
Most CS graduates are venerable code drones, doing fixes and minor features at the helm of Pm's. That sounds more like a janitor to me.
Sys admin work is true systems engineering. iow, building complex systems out of building blocks. Way more interesting than being a code monkey for the most part.
( and btw, most good admins can code )
Uh... you guys do know that "engine"er comes from a trade? right? ( it was the guy that conducted, fixed the trains ;) )
Oh wait, I'm sure you both have your PE's. Right?
Its funny seeing programmers, because computer scientist you surely are not, bitch about the engineer title. Then I ask them if they have their PE, which is based on Apprenticeship, and then love to see their blank stare lol
"what's a pe?"
Look, while there are many unqualified and cert monkeys passing themselves as sysadmin, a true sysadmin, systems engineer is closer to the true meaning of an engineer, then someone with a CS degree is.
The role of the sysadmin, is a true systems engineer ( look up that meaning too, you'll see).
A true sys. admin, or systems engineer in IT, looks at the whole system, and uses components as building blocks to a scalable and stable architecture.
I agree on the war thing - resisting wars of opportunity or adventure is very different from wars of defence of yourselves or of clearly, obviously imperilled others.
Why do you think this is? Why do you feel, that a war of defense is different
( I actually agree, but i'm trying to get you to see a point here )
I don't feel I owe anyone a debt though. I feel thankful that those people did come before me, but I also feel despair that seemingly everyone keeps getting the whole "free society" thing completely wrong, that we're scaring ourselves back in time and out of our own liberties, where we should be strengthening them.
There's an old saying, who's wording I always forget, but goes something like
"the ingrate never looks at the helping/feeding hand"
What makes us the most capable animal, aside from the opposable thumbs, is our sense of comunity, of "society". This i what makes countries. But I'm digressing...
The old adage, nothing is ever free. "free" societies, come at a price. This has always, and will always, be true.
Not that anywhere I go is going to be better, I just think there will be some lag time before I catch up with all the badness. And I can probably put up with a lot more if I live somewhere that isn't so damn cold and miserable most of the time.
Ahh, the truth comes out, you just hate cold weather.. LOL..
Just move to the carribbean!!! I find that getting laid often and going on hot weather vacations does wonders for my nationalism LOL...
I could not agree with this point more.
It's great to see sense in slashdot, albeit uncommon, is still alive. :)