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FBI Conducts Feasibility Study on Project Sentinel

leave-no-trace writes "CNN reports that "FBI officials hope to award a contract by the year's end for a complex new software program (dubbed Sentinel) to replace a failed project that was canceled this year at a cost of more than $100 million to taxpayers." The system is supposed to include search capabilities, protocols for processing and handling FBI reports, security issues and a new system for records management. FBI Director Robert Mueller told lawmakers he is unable yet to place a price tag on the Sentinel project."

30 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Not Quite That Shocking by geomon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know that many who have not worked either for or around the US government before are shocked at how money is spent (squandered) on projects that never finish or are dead the day they are deployed.

    The US Department of Energy spent approximately $250 million on a project to convert low-level radioactive waste into a concrete slurry that would be poured into a vault for disposal. They began construction on the vaults and had the grout plant ready to begin operation. Unfortunately, they didn't get approval of from the State of Washington before they began construction. At the point where full-scale testing was to begin, the State rejected their application to operate. Seems they were working a dual track: design and construction while simultaneously working on permit approval.

    They gambled and lost. $250M dropped in a hole and it never hit bottom. The money that was spent on the FBIs last system will suffer a similar fate.

    --
    "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    1. Re:Not Quite That Shocking by geomon · · Score: 3, Funny

      I know there are TONS and TONS of researchers that would just DIE for $1 million.

      I work with a few who feel the same way.

      I'll take $500k!

      Damn, I'm cheap.

      --
      "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    2. Re:Not Quite That Shocking by geomon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is economically unsound to invest into a project that does not have a well defined budget,

      While normally I would agree wholeheartedly, how do you define all of the costs associated with something that has never been done before and has extremely difficult engineering problems that have to be solved at various interim steps in your process. Add to that the lack of basic science supporting your engineering decisions.

      it will end up costing more than it has to,

      See the above statement.

      since no one will keep track of how well the money is spent.

      Actually, the government has very good financial controls on some of its projects. They can tell you how much is being spent and what they have left to meet their current obligations. What often happens is that unanticipated costs hit one project, which has a higher priority than other projects, so must take resources from less important tasks. Now the less important tasks are either cancelled or put on hold.

      As I said, they do know where the money is and how much is being spent, but sometimes things come up and screw with the machinery.

      This is one of the major reasons why the private sector ends up doing things cheaper.

      All of the work performed at the DOE site I work at are private firms. They do the work with only marginal oversight from the DOE (cost tracking).

      --
      "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    3. Re:Not Quite That Shocking by geomon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because other people fuck up in gigantic ways, we should turn a blind eye when people fuck up in merely massive ways?

      No.

      IF IT DOESN'T WORK, DON'T PAY FOR IT.Where's the incentive to succeed?

      Performance-based incentives.

      Finish the contract ahead of schedule and under budget? Extra cash.

      Screw the contract up and run over schedule? You lose your award fee and you are penalized by removing cash from your cost recovery account.

      Most DOE sites now employ this type of approach.

      --
      "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    4. Re:Not Quite That Shocking by bombadillo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know that many who have not worked either for or around the US government before are shocked at how money is spent (squandered) on projects that never finish or are dead the day they are deployed.

      Hey, look what I can do just by changing a couple of words!

      I know that many who have not worked either for or around A LARG CORPORATION before are shocked at how money is spent (squandered) on projects that never finish or are dead the day they are deployed.

      I am working in the private sector for a large company on a project that should have been shelved. However, the project is still planed to carry through over the next few years. This isn't the first time I have seen a failure nor will it be the last.

      I don't like to see money wasted either. However, it does no good to complain about the government without providing a solution as to how the Government can provide us solutions in a more efficient matter. When you get down to it the problem is people. To err is human.

      I for one enjoy the roads and highways on which I drive, The power and water from the TVA project, etc. Compared to other countries we live in a very organized way.

  2. Complex new software program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hear MS Access is currently the top contender because of its robust security.

    1. Re:Complex new software program by mkarpinski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No...

      The government only uses Access for unimportant things...like voting machines.

      --
      As below, so above and beyond, I imagine drawn beyond the lines of reason. Push the envelope. Watch it bend.
    2. Re:Complex new software program by shrubya · · Score: 2, Funny

      Let's hope MS Access gets the bid, because I'm pretty sure the #2 contender is evil giant robots. And trust me, that would be a very bad thing, especially for those of us with a few DNA replication errors.

  3. My Cunning Plan by MooseByte · · Score: 3, Funny

    $100 million down the drain eh? Heck, I'll bid this next project at a mere $1 million and flail miserably causing the contract to be scuttled in the end just like this one.

    Success! Because I'll be saving the FBI $99 million! In fact I think I'll qualify for one of those federal gov't "bounty for saving Uncle Sam costs" contractor bonus plans.

    Off to the Dilbert Mission Statement Generator.

  4. Suggestion: Google It by RedLeg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seriously:

    No one else has a hope of pulling an information indexing and retrieval project of this scale off, and they excel at exactly this kind of thing.

    Plus, there's that "First, do no evil...." motto.

    --Red

  5. It's not the technology, stupid by Robocrap · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think whoever the FBI allows to prime on the contract, they damn well better know a thing or two about project management. I think SAIC's failure to execute is in small part due to the underpinning technology, in large part due to an FBI leadership that was not on the same page, but mostly due to the fact that the management of this project was mishandled.

    1. Re:It's not the technology, stupid by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think SAIC's failure to execute is in small part due to the underpinning technology, in large part due to an FBI leadership that was not on the same page, but mostly due to the fact that the management of this project was mishandled.

      SAIC is certainly not blameless, but I think this is a pretty good summary of what happened. The biggest problem was the FBI trying to add major new requirements to an existing project as a response to 9/11. Agreed, SAIC should have said no, but what defense contractor does that when talking to the government?

  6. I got as far as by lheal · · Score: 5, Funny
    the first sentence:
    A technical feasibility study is under way on the new information management system

    before I had to ask google for the definition:

    technical feasibility study: n. from Gr. technos, knowledge + OF faux, false; see rubber stamp. See also "pork barrel" and "buzzword".

    --
    Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
  7. Right.. by t_allardyce · · Score: 4, Interesting

    a $100 million software project breaks down to:

    ~ 1.6 million well paid programmer hours
    or a roughly 50 strong team of (well paid) programmers and experts working for nearly 15 years without taking holidays or weekends off. If you want you can cut that down to 8 years and you've still got about $50M to play with for your servers and networking.

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    1. Re:Right.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I question how much you really know about this process, seeing as you didn't bother mentioning the prostitutes.

  8. Re:Government and Large-scale projects bad mix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Part of the problem has to do with their insane restrictions on how money can be spent. They will pay $X/hr for an engineer and no higher. They will pay 8% administrative overhead and no higher. You can't put brilliant (but expensive) people on the project because the cost structure isn't set up to reward that. Instead, you are almost forced to hire hundreds of warm bodies to bring that 8% up to something reasonable.

  9. Incredible by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That one hundred million dollars can be thrown away (well, sure, a lot of people profited by this malfeasance but the taxpayers didn't get what was paid for) and nobody goes to prison for thirty years ... incredible. Nowadays, it just seems like the worse the crime, the less the time. You would just think that the news media would be all over this but Noooooo! it's just glossed over. And, of course, it's the tip of the proverbial iceberg. There'as a reason taxes are so high my friends, and it has less to do with the services with which we are provided than those which we are not (like this project.) And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the "new and improved" project will be run by the same people that screwed up the last one.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  10. zerg by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 2, Insightful

    FBI Director Robert Mueller told lawmakers he is unable yet to place a price tag on the Sentinel project.

    If Mr. Mueller wasn't a doofus, he'd call up Google and ask them for a quote. The system would wind up deployed before the year was over.

    Maybe they should make me Director of the FBI.
    --
    [o]_O
  11. i can do it... by skydude_20 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dear FBI:
    Get yourself a rack of these: http://www.google.com/enterprise/gsa/index.html/
    I'll be expecting a check in the mail for $99million. You know where to find me.

    Sincerly,
    me

    --
    Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes
  12. Re:it wasn't a failed project by amliebsch · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hmmm...I don't think federal executive positions pay as much as you think they do. http://www.opm.gov/oca/05tables/html/ex.asp

    --
    If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  13. the reason it is failing is by hsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    they really can't decide on what they want.

    which is understandable, it is a massive project. the constantly evolving requirements don't help to nail down a prototype to get to teh final project.

  14. projects get done in spite of the government. by IEBEYEBALL · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think successful projects get done in spite of the government, and they are usually done by one person or a small team of people. I know. I single-handedly developed a database integration projection for a government agency back in the mid 1980's that is still in use today. I doubt if a team could have done it. It was me working 18 hour days and weekends that did it. And I did it in spite of some lazy bastard government types who stood in my way.

    --
    -- SKYKING, SKYKING, DO NOT ANSWER.
  15. Re:Suggestion: Google It by globalar · · Score: 4, Informative

    For the hardware setup (scale) and general search solution, Google is very good. However, it is not for every problem.

    Google does not have near the contextual capabilities of some (custom-fitted) search engines. At some point, you need automation and a level of reliability. You can't have a person looking at everything. And repeated searching, which we take for granted, is often necessary on the same dataset to garner sufficient results. Who says when we have found the right information?

    Google does not provide complex taxonomy or a feedback loop mechanism (which can be very complicated - often patented or proprietary).

    In the original PageRank thesis, it was made clear that context was entirely up to the user. When dealing with records (i.e., highly redundant data that must be cross-referenced extensively), Google falls flat.

    Let me greatly over-simplify. Consider, "Joe Smith civilian" and "Joe Smith terrorist". Google will not distinguish the two Smith's. It will only distinguish the phrase in relation to the index. So - even if we have a link between Smith the terrorist and smith the civilian, we can still mix them up (unless we mark everything explicity). We need context (not just words in the same document, sentence, etc.), and as our search pattern hones in on matches (repeated, refined searching), we need better classification or we go in circles.

  16. Re:Government and Large-scale projects bad mix? by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I get mad as much as the next guy at government wasting my tax money, however, I do not believe that it is a specifically governmental characteristic.


    Most companies, seem to have the same problems (project Monterey anyone?). The main difference, is that we (rightly) feel that government's money is our money, so it affects us more. On top of that, because it's our money media are much more likely to report those failures, particularly since governments are obligated to disclose such information. Secret projects in some company's lab are very likely to remain secret.


    --
    I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
  17. Sentinel by E-Rock-23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's got a nice Orwellian ring to it, doesn't it...

    "We are... Watching you..." -- Tim Curry, Congo

    --
    Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
  18. Sentinel too shall fail by Allnighterking · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why? Simply put. In the government it is impossible to get a spec. You spend months in negotiation trying to nail down something. Once you do and you write up the spec. There is always that funky little clause which allows for "changes unforseen do to the needs of the governement." It's worse than having heart lung machines designed by marketing.

    At the end of stage one a contract is signed. Ok folks time to start.... nope.... not yet. Depending on how the money was allocated they may or may not have to get outside approval. This could be the dept's accounting section, the GAO, or Congress. God in heaven help you if congress gets wind of it. Every Senator and Congressman along with 50K pedantic purveyors of polluted pullet piss (aka lobyists) will be on it like white on rice instantly. Each determined to get a piece of the pie for their district. (We don't need air horns for errors a simple PC speaker and beep will do just fine.... Oh I see Congressman Pantywhistle's district makes air horns, and he's head of the appropriations commitee.) Now the problem is that all of this doesn't get done until 1 week before budgetting tightens up tighter than a bullfrogs butt. You as the contractor have to finish out the new specs and get them to the proper authorities. (What do you mean Mr Toefinger is on vacation! He has to sign the paper work.... Fine can we fedHex it to him in Aruba?) He in turn will get the address wrong on the pre-addressed return envelope and in the end you will wind up getting your paperwork in to budgetting at 3:59 on the last day (one hour before closing)

    Will Sentinel fail, yes but it will faill less than it's predicessor, leaving someone to say.....

    It would have worked if we'd only had a couple of hundred million more.

    (and over in the corner will be a lone secretary, notebook and PDA in hand, who will have created with a spreadsheet and and addressbook a better replacement for sentinal than sentinal itself.)

    --

    I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.

  19. What happened to politicos? by typical · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Did every law enforcement guy and spook get *stupid* WRT PR?

    Let's take a look at the list of bright ideas for names:
    • Total Information Awareness. (Federal tie-databases-together project, never needed a public face in the first place.) Project has spooky logo containing giant floating eyeball in pyramid looking at the world. This is a good example of what we call a very bad idea from a political standpoint
    • Carnivore. (FBI email monitoring program.) Project has unspecified capabilities to monitor email, lots of techies saying scary things about it already. Bad image.
    • Sentinel. (FBI database system.) Current bad idea.

    Now, let's take a look at what the people doing this could learn from:

    • Magic Lantern. (FBI keylogger) Good name. Whimsical. Nonthreatening. You can get a picture of a sort-of-elflike FBI guy skipping merrily through the trees. Congress is not going to get complaints from scared citizens demanding that they cut funding on something called Magic Lantern.
    • Operation Enduring Freedom. (name for the US invasion of Iraq, part two) See, no matter how much you don't like Bush, he managed to hold back on names like Operation Oilgrab, Operation Polishing Daddy's Legacy, and even the (increasingly obviously inaccurate due to news reports) intended name of Operation Infinite Justice. It's not bloodthirsty. It's happy and upbeat.
    • Department of Defense. In the United States, we don't *have* a Department of War, and haven't for many years, ever since someone figured out that it's harder to get funding for war than for defense. Nor do we have a Department of Offense. The Department of Defense is a friendly shield covering kitties and sleeping babies. This is a good name.
    • Social Security. Okay "social" might have been a bad idea, as it smacked a bit too much of socialism, but "security" is always safe. Calling this Handout From Our Kids or Federal Pyramid Scheme was avoided. Good choice.
    • Pro-life/pro-choice. Nobody's negative, everybody's positive.
    • Freedom fighter. The United States does not back terrorists. We have terrorists for *enemies*. We assist freedom fighters in overcoming their cruel oppressors.

    There are things that it's okay to attach scary appellations to. Fighter jets -- Fighting Falcon, Tigershark, Hornet, Cobra, Phantom, Demon, Banshee, Fury. Those are supposed to be scary, because it gives people a sense of vicarious power and excitement. Naming domestic monitoring and law enforcement systems (and that is, with the addition of counterintelligence, the job of the FBI) anything scary-sounding is a very bad idea.

    While the United States doesn't usually do this, here are some other points:

    • Do not name a product after living people. With dead people, there's a only a slight chance that some scandal will be discovered later. With live people, you may have your newly-minted Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! be represented by an individual that abuses women, bites ears off of people, and rapes people.
    • Do not name anything after an ethnic group. Ethnic groups change their names constantly to avoid political friction, and old acceptable terms rapidly become unacceptable. Even the Bureau of Indian Affairs sounds a bit creaky next to Bureau of Native American Affairs, and National Association For the Advancement of Colored People is just plain out-of-date.
    • Codenames sometimes become product names, as Motorola found out with the PowerPC G3, G4, and G5. People can be sued for codenames, as Apple found out with Sagan. If you're going to have marketing people handing out internal codenames, think first. Or have a separate, external codename to use on products.
    • Do not make your name a funny joke, especially an in-joke. It's definitely uproariously funny at the time, and then it just creates misery for every person down the road who has to explain it to ev
    --
    Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
  20. Save your tin foil... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 3, Interesting
    How about the simpler explaination that large organization often can't manage a sufficiently complex project? (Of course small organizations rarely even try.)

    Heck, just type in "DMV software debacle" in google, that comes up with an Amazon.com book on the subject as the numeber one hit. Try just "software debacle" for even more instances.

    The choice between Conspiracy or Incompetence comes up all too often. While Conspiracy is more interesting, the sad truth is that something much less is usually involved.

    In any event, the money doesn't dissappear. It ends up in the economy somewhere, and was probably better spent on a failed high-tech program than it would have been in an outright give-away (like unemployment benefits for those same programmers).

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  21. They need this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Really, the cost for this isn't as much as you might think it is for the work involved (or compared to other government projects).

    I work for a police station and run people through FBI checks periodically. Don't get out your tin-foil hats though, most FBI checks are for employee background checks, criminal records needing to be checked directly through the FBI don't occur very frequently. But for you people out there who think what they have now is sufficient, you're wrong.

    Currently the only system in place is a terminal where you have to know the cryptic commands to make it work (think unix CLI x10). Many law enforcement agencies are in the process of making the switch the "new" ncurses-like interface where knowing the cryptic commands isn't as necessary. In fact, I believe their funding would be well spent on a new system because it would probably save the goverment in general that much each -year- in training costs savings.

    I know it's not a popular belief, but not everything the government does is bad.

  22. A little understanding goes a long ways... by Willy+Nily · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First off, this was supposed to be a PILOT project. It was designed as such because there was a myriad of problems to be overcome. The largest one was undoubtedly document/case info handling. I could just imagine the nightmares of the folks that were trying to design this one. Some folks here thought this was a free for all and that google search would do the job, not so. There are two concepts at work here- clearance level and need to know. Both work quite well at a human level. But at a computer level, automating these concepts are anything but easy to define, create, route, track, and enforce. Big deal. They scrapped the project. But at least they learned a lot for the next project and are incorporating what they can. Hopefully, the next one will come close to what they were hoping for.