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Creating Characters With Stan Lee

Posted by Zonk on from the pumpkin-bomb-the-hell-out-of-the-place dept.

GameDailyBiz has an interview with Stan Lee that touches on a talk he gave at the 2005 D.I.C.E. Summit entitled "Superheroes - Creating Characters for the Ages". From the article: "I submitted the idea of Spider-Man to my publisher and he hated it. I said my hero was a teenager -- the publisher said a teenager could not be a hero but only be a sidekick. I said he was insecure and had personal problems -- my publisher said a hero does not have personal problems... The lesson to be learned, don't listen to experts because they don't know what they're talking about and just get you down."

28 comments

  1. A hero by FidelCatsro · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "a hero does not have personal problems." someone should of told that to batman , who was by all accoutns completly psychotic and had schitzo effective episodes where he saw his parents murderd which drove him to wipe out crime with a vengance

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    1. Re:A hero by Pluvius · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure that those aspects of his character were really explored until well past the 60s.

      Rob

    2. Re:A hero by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

      I am a little young to remember those days , but what really stood out to me about batman was the fact that he was completly crazy and all the more intresting for it

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    3. Re:A hero by jayhawk88 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Pluvius is right though. When Batman first came out in the 40's, his character was very dark and almost pulp-like. He killed bad guys on a regular basis. But when he got popular during the Golden Age, he was definitely the "Adam West" style Batman, who's biggest non-Batman-related concern was whether to go to the Charity Bachelor Auction or not. We still were told why he became Batman of course, but the comics were all about his actions as Batman, and any story we saw as Bruce Wayne was just peripheral.

      It wasn't until Marvel came along and started writing characters who had problems in their non-hero lives that you started to see things like Batman going dark again.

  2. I read that as the publisher being insecure... by TelJanin · · Score: 1

    ...and having personal problems. With the "teenager could not be a hero but only be a sidekick" statement, I think that might be the right way to read it.

  3. Interesting article by Pluvius · · Score: 1

    Just make sure you don't apply it to City of Heroes, otherwise Marvel might sue you.

    Rob

    1. Re:Interesting article by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      This is abit off topic... but... does anyone know when the original marvel "uncanny X-men" DVD will EVER come out? I am referring to the cartoons televised in the early 90s.

  4. oblig penny arcade ref by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Should we thank the gods this never made it or be upset it was never given a fair chance?

    1. Re:oblig penny arcade ref by Sebadude · · Score: 1

      His redraw is awesome though.

      --
      Eh.
  5. It's managers in general that are clueless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    don't listen to experts because they don't know what they're talking about

    Lee is wrong to attribute this cluelessness to "experts". Real experts know what they're talking about but are almost never seen in the roles being discussed, which are effectively managerial positions.

    Some experts move to management of course, but as soon as they do that they start to become "past experts", and then they very rapidly become no longer experts at all even when they think they are. When you don't *DO* stuff yourself, you lose touch with the real doer's world and start talking hypotheticals.

    And that's the upside of the problem. On the more common downside, management came up through the ranks without ever doing anything that required training a clue beyond how to run a spreadsheet.

    The archetypal PHB is an pretty accurate portrayal that all of us easily recognize in our companies, and even the cartoon versions taken to extremes for a laugh still have a considerable amount of truth in them.

    Lee was talking to management. Surprise, surprise, they got it totally ass about face.

    1. Re:It's managers in general that are clueless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I couldn't have said it any better--you should be modded up.

      I think he was wrong to attribute anything to "experts" per se. I've published a number of works, and it has nothing to do with "experts", just whomever happens to be making the decisions.

      Publishing something, or pursuing your goals has nothing to do with "not listening to experts," it has to do with perseverance in general. Somtimes experts have good advice--you just incorporate it and go to the next decision-maker until someone works with you on your idea.

    2. Re:It's managers in general that are clueless by cowscows · · Score: 1

      I think he was talking about "experts" with the quotes around it. If he didn't actually make the little air quotes while saying it, it was probably implied.

      What's really challenging about it all is that if you're just some guy trying to get involved in an industry, there's all manner of people who already have claimed their stake there, and you've got to deal with them. And it's hard knowing who got there cause they're good, who got there cause they're lucky, and who got there because their uncle is a big shot. It's hard to know who has valid advice, who has crappy advice, and who has worthless advice yet still has the power to wreck your career just because of their position. It's not an easy game to play.

      Like you said, perseverance is the most reliable way to get through, it's just difficult, and almost soul-draining at times. One of the hardest parts of design, of any sort, is learning to deal with criticism. Not only learning to not take it personally, but also learning what's valid and what's not. It's easy to get depressed, since the world is so full of people with nothing better to do than crap on your ideas.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    3. Re:It's managers in general that are clueless by rpillala · · Score: 1

      It's too bad you posted AC because now I can't be a fan. You've summed up a big problem in education reform which is that people making decisions believe in their expertise when they shouldn't. Some people (and you can spot them right away) enter teaching in order to do something else. There's nothing wrong with being career-minded but these people want to "get 5 years of teaching under their belt" so they can work for the state or go into administration. I guess they don't realize that the farther they get from those five years the less relevant they will be. It's a rare administrator who understands that you know your job better than they do.

      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
  6. Don't Listen To Stann Lee!... by Trikenstein · · Score: 0
    He Obviously Has No Idea What He's Talking About!

    I'd have sacrificed a year off my life to have seen his face when he first saw Spidey web-slinging thru the city.

    I bet it was one of the bigest grins ever.

    1. Re:Don't Listen To Stann Lee!... by unitron · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that Stan Lee had a publisher named Stann Lee?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    2. Re:Don't Listen To Stann Lee!... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was Stanley, myself. Hmmm, etemological explosions.
      Either way, what suddenly makes Stan Lee an authority on who's experts and who isn't? Doesn't THAT make HIM an expert on experts? So I guess we shouldn't listen to him.

  7. Not enough depth by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 1

    I don't know. So far Stan Lee's characters didn't have a lot of depth, they're quite flat.
    Pretty much all games these days have an extra dimension to think in.

    1. Re:Not enough depth by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      Well, just like reading old Heinlen or Tolkein, it is better to remember the context of the times they were working in - these were new approaches, new ideas that had never before been considered.

    2. Re:Not enough depth by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was meant as a joke, e.g. 2D vs 3D

      tbh, most game characters have even less depth than the average comic character.

    3. Re:Not enough depth by mister_llah · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that, Mary Jane had a pretty nice rack.

      --
      MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
      http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
  8. ob simpsons quote by howman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Stan Lee won't leave my store.

    --
    flinging poop since 1969
    1. Re:ob simpsons quote by Rabid_Llama · · Score: 0

      "dont you want a THING action figure?" "it wont fit in my batmobile!" "Sure it *crash* does!"

  9. Didn't Stan Lee say this Spider-Man history... by antdude · · Score: 1

    ... on Spider-Man 2 DVD?

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    1. Re:Didn't Stan Lee say this Spider-Man history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Stan Lee is like that Uncle who tells the same stories and the same jokes at every gathering.

  10. okay... by Tom7 · · Score: 2, Funny

    The lesson to be learned, don't listen to experts because they don't know what they're talking about ... and so I didn't read the article.

  11. Raping Stan's Characters with Hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did anyone catch this talk down the hall from Stan Lee?

  12. The real lesson by Jaeph · · Score: 1

    The real lesson here is that there are no hard and fast rules with art.

    -Jeff

    --
    Please learn the difference between a dissenting opinion and a troll before you moderate.