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Zeta Goes Gold

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the obscurantism dept.

*no comment* writes "Be lives! yellowTAB has announced it's 1.0 release of Zeta has gone Gold and has sent it off to production. The word is that in about 2 weeks, you can have your hands on the latest version of this BeOS derivative."

38 of 311 comments (clear)

  1. Last I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Catherine was a silver type

  2. Anywhere? by SpartanVII · · Score: 4, Funny
    ZETA costs Eur 99 and is available from our online shop or any of our approved resellers

    So where is the .torrent? ;-)

    1. Re:Anywhere? by Krach42 · · Score: 3, Funny

      there was a torrent out there, but it turns out it was just a pic of catherine zeta jones.

      Funny thing is the torrent is still going strong.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
  3. Do they or do they not have the source legally? by CyricZ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember hearing that there was some speculation that they did not legally have the BeOS source code. While they would never comment on it, some people suggested that they must have had access to the code in order to perform some of the modifications they have done. Other people have suggested that they have merely patched previous binary releases. Now, my question is: do they or do they not have the source code to BeOS? If so, is it legal or illegal?

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by pdbaby · · Score: 3, Insightful
      completely useless to anyone interested in retaining the right to freely use their computer.
      Mod me down for going counter to public opinion but you can still freely use your computer without sourcecode. That Apache comes with source means nothing to me: I don't edit it -- I have neither the knowledge of the codebase nor the time to merge my changes into every new version -- so I'm just about as free with Apache as with a closed-source webserver (source-code wise anyway)
      --
      Global symbol "$deity" requires explicit package name at line 2. - If only $scripture started "use strict;"
    2. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by OSXexpert · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is no question about the source leak. If you hung around the BeShare community long enough starting right after PalmOS bought the IP and engineers for 11 million, you could have a copy of the tarball. BTW, it was corrupted, only parts of the tarball came available to the general masses. I know, I downloaded from a BeSharer the tarball, uncompressed it and indeed had the sources. Kernel sources (partials), stuff like malloc and such. Seriously, the BeOS core code was last dated 1992-93, not kidding. A LOT of the core of the BeOS was and such still is in the form of Zeta/Beta, 12-13 years old. Now, that is true with a lot of other OS's, NeXTStep/OSX is a good example (classnames are NSClassName for example, too complex to change for both Apple and old time developers).... However, Zeta is not even available legally in source to anyone. Palm has denied it to Zeta, and to the community at large (in 2001 there was a campaign to get the source opened, PalmOS said forget-about-it with a big FU to boot coming from the 'community' in response).

      --
      --- Old Time NeXThead
    3. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 4, Informative
      While they would never comment on it
      Not sure where you got that idea. I haven't been paying much attention to yellowTAB, but from what I've heard, including here on Slashdot, they bought a licence to BeOS just before Be was sold off to whatever company it was.

      As for their never commenting on it ... I suppose it'd be too much trouble to actually check their website.
      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    4. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by Shanep · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately, this means their OS is closed source, and completely useless to anyone interested in retaining the right to freely use their computer.

      Huh? A person who DECIDES to use this operating system and who can BACK OUT by using some other operating system, is somehow deprived of the free use of their computer?

      The decision to use this OS falls under a users freedom to use what they want on their computer. Ever thought that not everyone wants what you want and for some people the use of this OS might actually fit within the freedoms which they wish to exercise?

      You sound like a broken record.

      I'm a BSD user BTW. I also like and use OS X. I have the freedom to remove OS X from my Macs and install OpenBSD if I want. My free choice at the moment has me using OS X on my Macs and OpenBSD on my i386's and sparc64's. Mac OS X is not removing my freedom to not use it.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    5. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by smallstepforman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      yellowTab were under NDA with Palm in regards to the source code - at one stage they were unable to modify any of the 5.1d generation code, but lately it seems that the restrictions have been lifted, since they've hired kernel engineers to address bugs in the original BeOS. They have fixed the memory limit issues (32Mb addon, 1Gb memory limit, few other issues), and they've added processor specific optimisations (memcpy, memset etc), so that it works on newer CPU's (like the AMD x86-64 in 32 bit mode, the hyperthreaded P4's and such).

      They've obviously got the licence, since it would be suicide to have coorporate offices, 35 employees etc for a non-legal product. yellowTab are legit, they just were not able to publicly speak about the nature of the licence when they first announced Zeta. Now that the restrictions have expired, it would be foolish for them to say anything else (since it would cast doubt on a previous era).

      --
      Revolution = Evolution
    6. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by croddy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It doesn't matter whether you personally have the desire or ability to patch the source. What matters is that someone does -- be it you, your neighbors, or others -- and that we all benefit from those patches. That's why open source projects have bug-report and feature-request systems -- so that users who aren't in a position to provide the changes they need can request them of others.

      Yes, it would be nice to have access to the BIOS source and motherboard schematics -- just like it is nice to have access to the kernel source and to application sources. The more of these things are opened, the more freedom users will enjoy.

      It is not zealotry to expect source code for an OS. Even Microsoft recognizes that universities can't study Windows to any non-trivial extent without allowing schools access through their Shared Source program.

      In an OS, freedom means the ability of the user base to take action when security problems appear, to provide drivers for new hardware, and to control the configuration of the system. To be suddenly cut off from security updates on an old system, and face migration, upgrade, or compromise is not freedom. Dependence on a vendor and a proprietary OS may -- and quite often, does -- mean convenience and ease of use; it does not mean freedom.

    7. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by leomekenkamp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You might be trolling, but I'll bite anyway.

      Because you don't edit and complile your own source code, you are dependent on "the man" and are not free.
      No. It is not because you do not edit and compile your own software; it is because you are PREVENTED to edit and compile your own software that you are not free

      Because you did not build your own computer from scratch you are not free.
      No. If you are PREVENTED from building your own computer, you are not free

      Because you did not crack the molecules from crude oil in your mother's basement and fashion the plastic case for your computer on your own, you are not free.
      No. If you are PREVENTED to crack your own molecules, then you are not free.

      Because you do not generate your own electricity, you are dependent on some utility and are not free.
      No. If you are PREVENTED from generating your own electricity, you are not free.

      Because you did not start out with a fist full of raw sand and turn it into a video card you are not free.
      No. If you are PREVENTED to make your own video card, then you are not free

      I never walk in protest marches. Does that mean I would agree with taking away the right for OTHER people to walk in protest marches? No, as that would take away their freedom directly (and mine indirectly). I never build my own TV set. Does that mean I would agree with legislation that would prevent OTHER people to build their own TV set (without broadcast flag checking)? No.

      Do I edit and compile the software I run? Sometimes. If I did not I would still see that someone preventing me from being able to edit and compile the software that I run is taking away my freedom

      --
      Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
    8. Re:Do they or do they not have the source legally? by mcrbids · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mod me down for going counter to public opinion but you can still freely use your computer without sourcecode.

      You are entirely correct. But the open source zealots who help give open source a bad name and strengthen Microsoft's cause would like you to believe otherwise.

      This is some good trolling here - not sure why I've decided to bite anyway...

      Any movement is defined, at least partially, by its fringe. This is true whether you're talking politics, (go Rush!) Religion, (go Misionaries!) or software. (go Debian!)

      You can be very selective, and choose political conservatives who believe in aliens, and that the government is infecting the population with AIDS through airplane exhaust. (Google for comtrails produces this)

      It would be very hard to say that conservatives are all about comtrails, aliens, and government conspiracy. Yet, some of the more vocal ones are.

      Are you going to see me making a video card from sand? Come on, pal. You're being more fringe in your comments about the fringe than they were in the beginning!

      OSS DOES benefit you, even if not immediately. Parent post mention that having the source for Apache doesn't help in any way. Except that it does:

      1) Having the source freely available puts lots of plusses on the "supply" side of the economic scale, meaning the costs for obtaining the software will always be low.

      2) Having the source freely available creates a culture of mods and patches, which make it much more likely that you'll be able to get much-needed features without having to commission your own software company.

      3) Open source software can persist long after the original group or sponsor quits. Thus, we have evolution and ximian, and to a lesser extent, Mozilla. Oh, and don't forget the Firebird DBMS. How many sponsors has PostgreSQL had over the years?

      Another example: Microsoft discontinuing VB 6. A stable, workhorse of a programming environment, the "upgrade" was in fact a wholy different language. Without the marketroids running the show, the OSS solution would have been a fork of the codebase, leaving enterprise users free to continue to develop and improve the VB6 codebase.

      None of this is new - it's been said many times before. Oh well. You trolled, I bit. I guess you got what you wanted...

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  4. Hardware Support Lacking by Vobbo · · Score: 4, Informative

    The supported hardware list seems to indicate that at least one common laptop maker may not be supported very well (supported inspiron 3200, partially supported LS L400, no other details). Hopefully as they get bigger, they'll be able to devote time and resources needed to get running on some of the newer laptops coming out ...

    --
    Vobbo: Video Blogs
  5. Re:Requirements? by nocomment · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hardware requirements

    Minimal Requirements:

    Pentium 200MHz (or Cyrix, Athlon, Via...)
    32 MB RAM
    600 MB Hard Disk Space
    8 MB Video Memory
    bootable CD-ROM Drive
    Mouse, Keyboard, 14" Color Monitor
    Recommended Hardware:

    Intel Pentium III 1 GHz (Celeron, AMD Athlon Duron/XP)
    256 MB RAM
    4 GB Hard Disk Space
    32 MB Video Memory
    Soundcard
    CD/DVD Drive
    Mouse, Keyboard, 17" Color Monitor

    --
    /* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
    /* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */
  6. TV Capture built in? by ruiner13 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "ZETA comes with everything you need to enjoy your audio and video collection. Watch DVDs, listen to Mp3's or internet radio. If you've got a TV card you can even watch and record television with ZETA."

    Nice. I wonder how well it would perform as a HTPC. The site doesn't seem too detailed or give screen caps that I could find, but not bad. Might have to try it on my old Dell P2 400. Anyone have a beta cope that can speak for how well this feature works?

    --

    today is spelling optional day.

  7. |Poor Be. by Fallingcow · · Score: 5, Informative

    Man I wish Be hadn't died. Now THAT was a hell of a desktop OS. Dead simple install, simple UI with a lot unixy power under the hood. Booted super fast. Did things on 1995 hardware that other OS's couldn't do as well until 1999-2000 hardware came around.

    The only downside was app support. If they were still around and had anywhere near the support that Linux does, I'd be back with them in a heartbeat.

    Sad. :(

  8. Zeta Beta by debilo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They've been selling beta versions of Zeta on German television for months touting it as virus and trojan free, and claiming it was actually "faster than Linux", whatever that's supposed to mean, showing it to run on a (supposedly) P1 with 128 MB while playing 6 video files simultaneously. I always got a good laugh out of that, but I'll probably try it out soon nonetheless. Can anyone comment on the quality of the beta version?

  9. Memory is _STILL_ a scarce resource! by CyricZ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Even in the days of low-end desktops with 512MB of RAM, memory is still a relatively scare resource. As such, good software takes care not to waste memory. Indeed, it is therefore quite responsible of them to make note of the fact that their microkernel consumes very little RAM for what it offers (very much, in fact!).

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  10. Resolved: NeXTStep was More Advanced than BeOS... by Nova+Express · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ...when Apple made the decision to buy NeXT instead of BeOS. Discuss. Please provide sources and examples for all points, This will count 10% of your grade.

    (My take: It doesn't matter. The NeXT purchase brought back Steve Jobs, who has been worth, at the very least, as much to Shareholders as OS X (I can't believe Jean Louise-Gasse (sp?) would have been nearly as influential, nor would he (or whoever followed Gil Amelio) would come up with the iPod or iMac). A very conservative estimate would be that the presence of Jobs added $2 billion to Apple stockholder value.)

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

  11. Re:Screenshots? by nocomment · · Score: 4, Informative

    linky to screenshots.

    --
    /* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
    /* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */
  12. Re:Beta reviews at OSNews.com by debilo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ah, yes.

    They have had quite a few discussions about Zeta. Here are a few of the more recent ones:

    YellowTAB Zeta R1 goes Gold
    Zeta R1 Screenshots
    A Look at YellowTAB's Progress

    Thanks for the hint.

  13. Re:Resolved: NeXTStep was More Advanced than BeOS. by CyricZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    NeXTSTEP was indeed far more advanced where it came to networking and enterprise-related functionality. But BeOS was the supreme leader when it came to multimedia applications on the PC. While NeXTSTEP provided an excellent platform for Apple to build multimedia capabilities onto, BeOS already had them working and optimized.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  14. Icon by vinn · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm less amazed that Be's still alive than I am that you have a graphic for it.

    --
    ----- obSig
  15. Re:So there are... by bnitsua · · Score: 4, Informative

    there's a whole bunch of screenshots here: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?re lease=223&slide=1
    it pretty much looks like BeOS did, big surprise there, eh?

  16. Reasons why you should care: by CyricZ · · Score: 4, Informative

    1. It's an alternative to Windows. 2. It brings extreme multimedia capabilities to the x86-based PC. 3. It features a heavily multithreaded microkernel and GUI that will inherently benefit from multicore and hyperthreading CPUs. 4. It provides a POSIX layer that allows UNIX, Linux and *BSD applications to be ported with ease. And that's just a small sampling of the many reasons why you should care.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  17. I don't get it! Who's going to buy it? by H0p313ss · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Who is going to spend time and money on this thing?
    • It's almost as expensive as XP Home edition and half a dozen different Linux distros can be had for free.
    • Who's going to pay 99 Euros for a squeaky new OS?
    • Are there even any applications for it?

    Free I could understand, we hobbiests are crazy, but 99 Euros? WTF?

    --
    XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    1. Re:I don't get it! Who's going to buy it? by smallstepforman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some people like to support the underdog. I have purchased the Release Candidate of Zeta, knowing more than likely that I'd be throwing money away. I think of it more like a donation, to ensure that an alternative to Windows and Linux continues surviving. Bernd seems to be managing the company quite well, so it looks like yellowTab just might make it. Once they have the 70 employees Bernd has been talking about, expect a full on revival of BeOS (awaken from the dead :-).

      Plus, Haiku is getting closer, so by supporting the successor to BeOS, I am indirectly supporting Haiku. By showing that there is money to be made with BeOS, developers are more than likely to start offering software for another viable OS.

      --
      Revolution = Evolution
  18. Re:Requirements? by bnitsua · · Score: 4, Funny

    whoa. be switched to intel? next you're going to tell me app... *head explodes*

  19. Re:Resolved: NeXTStep was More Advanced than BeOS. by solios · · Score: 3, Interesting

    BeOS was also (iirc, I'm not a coder so these things slip) a monolithic API, which has proven difficult to reverse engineer. NeXT rode the UNIX virus, got a candy-coating and MacOS compatability layer in the modern era and is still running loose... and heading back to Intel like a pack of X-wings for the Death Star.

    BeOS was founded by Jean-Louis Gasse, an ex Apple employee (who had something to do with marketing in Europe, iirc - someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

    NeXT, well. Yeah. We know what's up with NeXT. Founded by Jobs, financed by Ross Perot, and it GAVE BIRTH TO THE WORLD WIDE WEB!!!!!!! *squirt*.

    What Killer App rode BeOS to fame? Anything? Last I checked, it kind of floundered about due to a lack thereof.

    Not to sound like one of the other kool-aid drinkers, but Steve's an Innovator and Gasse's a suit. An innovator wouldn't have bitched, pissed and moaned about how it was Apple keeping them from running on the PPC 750 - it didn't stop linux!

  20. yellowTab by smallstepforman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been following the progress yellowTab have been making, ever since they licenced the rights to distribute BeOS R5PE and Pro (when they acquired the rights from Koch Media). yellowTab have some small mistakes as they were trying to learn how to stand on their own two feet, but lo-and-behold, they are now a company with 35 employees (and rising). Unlike BeInc, yellowTab know a thing or two about marketing, and are slowly generating enough revenue to employ 70 employees. They have a few of the old BeInc engineers who originally worked on the BeOS, and they have managed to hire / contract some of the Haiku (former OpenBeOS) developers to work on some of the Zeta components.

    If yellowTab play their cards right, they will have enough finances to employ the targetted 70 engineers, and work on Zeta R2, which for all intentional purposes can be regarded as BeOS R7.

    The more the merrier, I say, and I wish them luck.

    --
    Revolution = Evolution
  21. Ab-so-fuckin-lutely by Udo+Schmitz · · Score: 5, Informative
    Check this out:

    http://www.openstep.se/jobs/

    It is a NeXTSTEP 3.0 demo Steve Jobs gave 1992 (previously covered on /.). It looks almost like my Panther version of Mac OS X in 2005! When I first saw it I was even more pissed of at Bill Gates who I see responsible for depriving us of OS advancement through MSs monopoly actions :(

    1992! Argh (faints ...)

  22. The OS for Homeshoppers by tmk · · Score: 3, Informative

    In Germany you can buy Zeta for several years in homeshopping channels as "alternative for windows". They sold even the Betas without mentioning the beta status. The price: 100 Euro.

    Look for details here.

  23. Re:What's the compelling reason to switch? by smallstepforman · · Score: 3, Interesting
    What can Zeta do on the average 2005 desktop machine that Windows or Linux can't? Everything I've seen in terms of software offerings (CD player, CD burner, video editor, AIM client, e-mail, Firefox, etc...) are things that already exist in Windows and Linux. What's the compelling reason to switch?


    BeOS / Zeta has a certain feel which cannot be benchmarked or reviewed, it can only be experienced. It's one of those mythical quantaties which stirs a type of passion which is missing in both Windows and Linux. It's weird, kind of like falling in love - for everyone else, the lady in question is but another female, yet once you've tasted the forbidden fruit, you love every aspect of her - her smell, her smile, her hair, her skin...


    BeOS feels smoother and more responsive than any other system we've tried (and we've tried a lot of systems). It's like a sports car which handles curves very well. It's useless for family people since the sports car has no back seat for the kids, its useless for the tradesmen since it has no space in the trunk, but man, for us sports car geeks, it gets the heart pumping...

    --
    Revolution = Evolution
  24. Too late for me! by The+OPTiCIAN · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Once a 100% BeOS user, I played around with Be again a fortnight ago, hoping to get into working on the very very cool instant messenger kit. But it was too hard. I couldn't get SSH to work, there are problems with some tools (eg: Bethon) only working with R5, others only working with post-BONE releases, etc, etc, and the browsers are too heavy to run nicely on my compatible hardware (dual p2, 256MB) and I got sick of it. Until the community can get to the state where you can get a development workstation set up without having to bleed and until the distributions can get support for basic hardware like SATA (or else applications that work nice on the old compatible hardware), it's not going to get much momentum behind it.

    This is a shame, because the interface is a damned side faster and lighter and nicer than either gnome or mac os x (and in spite of the yucky bloaty skinned rubbish that zeta has replaced the old beautiful elegant fast LAF with), and it used to be much easier for young developers to get used to the environment than linux (at least it was easier for me).

    The coolest thing about Be though was the filesystem. Check out this: http://eiman.tv/imkit/use.html. This is an instant messenger system that's based on the filesystem. So each user's icon... is a file with metadata! Neat! All written by the same guy who's written this new metadata file system that's shipped with tiger.

    Anyway - it's too late for me now. I only had one computer left that would run Be or Zeta (my newish mac and newer SATA x86 box won't run it. :( ) and my experiences trying to get basic tools up and working a fornight ago put me off one time too many. I installed debian stable on that on Sunday so it can replace my mailserver.

    But I'm guessing that in ten or fifteen years we'll start getting to the point where kernels are interchangable, so I hope Be people keep up their good work because it was one hell of a fast exciting system back in the day.

    --


    Believe with me, my saplings.
  25. Summary by kahei · · Score: 3, Funny


    Some group of people struggle against all odds to produce (well, update) a whole modern independent OS free of Windows and Unix baggage.

    Slashdot responses summarized:

    --It's not free/Unix/OSX/real.
    --I already have Linux. Why should I care about anything else?
    --LOL BeOS is so dead!!11 pwned! noobz
    --I don't know what it is, I don't want to find out, and I don't like it.

    I think this provides a strong clue as to why human society has not yet attained a state of nirvana-like perfection and happiness :)

    --
    Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
  26. What about Haiku? by starseeker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The old OpenBeOS project is now called Haiku: http://haiku-os.org/learn.php

    Personally, I'd rather wait for them to succeed, or if they don't learn from the ideas and move on. I don't see the point in another commercial BeOS effort when the first one, with an admittedly GOOD product, crashed and burned. OS lockin has gotten stronger, not weaker - WinXP is stable enough for quite a large number of people. (I.e. that's not their major complaint any more.) I know it's rife with virus and spyware issues, but those problems are as much a function of user habits as anything - as demonstrated by the success of a mechanism (email viri) which requires the active help of the user to run.

    --
    "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
  27. Zeta's major Downfall by KingBahamut · · Score: 3, Informative

    Will be apps.

    There is a limited application set, the development of which is rather difficult in nature. If you read their forums, many of the users that have supported Zeta during its slow development binter and banter back and forth about what they want, and what they are getting.

    Linux users get the same way, perhaps not as vehemont as Zeta followers do, but they do.

    The problem is going to be finding developers that are willing to develop in that envoirnment. I believe that C++ is the only language for which you can use to develop in Zeta. The lack of language variety is going to make getting developers difficult, and a rather centric group of developers will build the OS, giving it a rathe r lop-sided or narrow build.

    At the current time however, their forums are being /.'ed -- http://www.yellowtab.com/phorum/ .

    It looks nice, it may work beautifully, but the limited application set sort of deters me from wanting to use it.

    --
    "God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
  28. Re:Requirements? by MrAl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The memory limit is gone. Whereas on R5 it would just ignore anything above 1 GB, Zeta will use it all.

    They do have the kernel source. This is not a patch, the actual problem was fixed. It will be interesting to see, as I've heard good word about the kernel Be was using in the end but never got released. This should be it.

    I just can't wait to dual boot OS X and Zeta on the same machine. What a strange world we live in!