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Apple to Lock OSXi to Apple Hardware

spac writes "It seems that Apple has chosen to use the Trusted Platform Module chip to ensure that Mac OS X can only run on Apple Hardware. The report from vnunet states that the chips contain a unique identifier, which can be used to determine the manufacturer of a PC as well as facilities for data encryption. "

22 of 766 comments (clear)

  1. Not will use, but *might* use by BWJones · · Score: 5, Informative

    The first sentence in the linked article says "Apple COULD use the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) chip to ensure that only Mac computers can run its OS X operating system, according to a news analysis from Gartner." emphasis mine.

    While I do not doubt this will in fact be the case, I would appreciate more accurate reporting on the part of the Slashdot editors to ensure that submitters are not spreading misinformation. In fact, if you click on the Gartner new analysis linked in the vnunet article, you will find no mention of the "security chip" being quoted by this article so we have nested lousy reporting. Yeah, yeah, I must be new here. Ha ha

    Seriously though, this is a reasonable move for Apple to ensure that the look, feel and reliability of the MacOS does not become corrupted for some users who may want to install OS X on "lower quality hardware". Apple prides itself on a quality user experience that approaches a luxury product. Everything from the appearance of the fonts to the way consumers interact with the interface needs to remain consistently "high quality" and I am sure Apple will make efforts to preserve this experience.

    As well as providing for an OS "lock" on hardware, the implementation of such chips will also allow for stronger security as well as enabling one of the features that Hollywood has been demanding before Internet distribution of movies will be allowed by the studios.

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    1. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by Frymaster · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Seriously though, this is a reasonable move for Apple to ensure that the look, feel and reliability of the MacOS does not become corrupted for some users who may want to install OS X on "lower quality hardware".

      while this is true, the single biggest reason for this obvious move is this: apple is a hardware company.

      since the mac came out, and even before, apple has been using revenue from hardware sales to support os development. if millions of home users stampede to emachines discount boxes for their os x platform then, apple's real source of revenue will dissappear.

      and then there'll be no os x.

    2. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by mmeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apple isn't grossly overcharging for most of its hardware. This is a myth. Yes, it is more expensive, and you can dig and find some dirt cheap-ass PC to compare it to argue how horrible the pricing is, but the reality is that Apple's prices are fairly competitive, when you factor in not just a barebones system, but the software and additional functionality .. especially in the mid-to-high end of the market.

      And if you don't like their prices -- don't buy a Mac. What? You want the full Mac experience but don't want to pay for it? So you want the full BMW M6 driving experience, but want to pay the cost of a Ford Focus? That's your problem, not Apple's (or BMW).

    3. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I really don't consider the Apple pricing to be unreasonable considering the fit and finish of the components. The pricing of Powermacs is in line with Opteron and Xeon workstations, but is generally quieter.

      The Powermac's case uses 1/8" thick aluminum sheet for the side plates, 3/32" thick between them. Heck, even the Mac mini uses a pound of aluminum. The components inside these things look top-notch to me, without the corner cutting known to the budget PC industry.

    4. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by servognome · · Score: 5, Insightful

      apple is a hardware company

      Apple is a platform company. Apple brand is based on a user "experience". Both the hardware and software are designed as complimentary components to an integrated platform. Seperating the hardware and software will hurt the Apple brand as a whole.

      --
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    5. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by danheskett · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I suggest maybe you spend some time in the trenches of the software industry. You statement is laughable on it's face.

      ]additional[/i] software sales is if they sold the software for less than the price of delivery
      Wrong, just plain wrong.

      Software today has a cost that grows with each copy sold. Software today is virtually never "done".

      Prime example: you have 100 users of a software package, and you sell it. A user finds a security bug. You fix it in a few days, test it, and e-mail the users the fix. Problem solved. No extra cost. Now, you have 8 million users. A user find a security bug. You fix it in a few days, and 8 million users download it from your site. The patch is only 250K, small by most standards, that's a big chunk of bandwidth. You are obligated to support that patch. It breaks some stuff. Your phone lines are jammed. People are pissed. But still, it cost you nothing other than a few bucks in bandwidth and maybe a little goodwill.

      Wrong in both cases. In both cases the person doing the fixes lost the opportunity to do other work. The time spent on the fixes is lost forever to the engineers. If it is a really significant bug it could take dozens or a hundred people to prepare the fix - from programmers to testers to QA to legal to webmasters to documentation experts to channel partners to vendors to hardware suppliers to PR. All of which has a significant and non-trivial cost. Meanwhile, while your users are calling support - even if rare - your phone people are denied the opportunity to help another user which has a ral cost.

      "Pure profit minus distribution" may have been true when software was updated once every 2 years, if that. But today, between bugfixes, securtiy updates, feature "fixes", etc software is not "done". It is very much an ongoing effort.

    6. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by diamondsw · · Score: 4, Informative

      More like they are a business and they would like to remain in business.

      As for their hardware being "grossly overpriced", you haven't actually looked at their lineup in the last several years, have you? We've been over it a million times here, and for a comparable computer (yes, this means no leaving out wireless, firewire, and all of those things Mac users use and take for granted), their consumer line is either in-line with the PC or better (Mac Mini, especially). Their pro line is not as competitive (Powerbooks, especially) which is why this whole Intel shift started in the first place.

      If you want a bare bones box without Firewire, wireless, Gigabit ethernet, etc, fine - go build one and enjoy it. But don't expect Apple to build you one and don't cloud the argument by lowballing PC hardware prices.

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
    7. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by ostone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      are we honestly saying that software should have an inflated cost because they didn't finish the process during the beta stage. I understand that you can't find every bug, but claiming that developers are LOSING something when they debug is bunk. Developers often spend many hours debugging code, and it's not time that should have went elsewhere.

      --
      Remove *your pants* to send me email.
    8. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by wiredlogic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsoft is a platform company. Microsoft brand is based on a user "experience". Both the browser and OS are designed as complimentary components to an integrated platform. Seperating Internet Explorer and Windows will hurt the Microsoft brand as a whole.

      Oh, the irony.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    9. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by dreamt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder how many people will buy Apple hardware to run Windows (1%, 10%?).

      I actually think it would be much higher, if you consider people wanting to dual-boot. I personally have been interested in getting an OS-X box, but can't really leave Windows behind. I see many people dual booting their machines. Look at how many Linux people keep their machines dual-booted for games, or [insert use here]. Now look at how many people don't use linux because its "too hard to use". Now, look at how many people would like to have a stable user-friendly Unix box, but need windows for something.

    10. Re:Not will use, but *might* use by deacon · · Score: 4, Informative
      Can you show us some examples of hardware that *spec for spec* is grossly overpriced compared to name brand PC box sellers?

      I'm glad you asked!

      apple store:

      Apple Memory Module 2.0GB PC3200 ECC DDR 2x1.0GB DIMMS Apple Memory Module 2.0GB PC3200 ECC DDR 2x1.0GB DIMMS

      Price $1,000.00

      from newegg:

      CORSAIR XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 2GB(1GBx2) ECC Registered DDR PC-3200 -Retail

      Price: $332.00

      On the other hand, I did recently use the free itunes for windows to turn an ancient pc into a standalone jukebox, and I have to give apple credit, it works great, nice interface, logical behaviour. I just feed it new CD's occasionally (from the heaps that litter the space around the stereo amp) while it plays the party shuffle of music that is already loaded.

      I still have not figured out how to "reshuffle" the party shuffle deck, so to speak, but even though my bias is generally anti-apple, I am assuming that the option is there somewhere, and I must give them praise where praise is due.

  2. vague.. by jabella · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apple could use the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) chip to ensure that only Mac computers can run its OS X operating system, according to a news analysis from Gartner.

    *snip*

    A spokeswoman for the TPG confirmed to vnunet.com that there is nothing preventing Apple from implementing the module

    it doesn't sound like apple's 'chosen' anything at all yet...?

  3. Not surprising by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This really isn't all that surprising. Apple wants to have a stranglehold on their OS. If they don't maintain that stranglehold, then issues with non-Apple hardware will begin to crop up. When those issues crop up, they'll make headlines. Those headlines will then damage Apple's reputation. Remember, Apple is a complete solution provider, not just a software provider.

    That being said, I keep kicking around in my head the concept of Apple allowing other PC manufacturers to build OS X compatible machines. While Apple attempts to stand for quality, it might be feasible for them to license their software to others. That way there could be the "cheap PC" version of OS X, and Apple would still make money with little damage to their rep. I can't quite decide whether it's a *good* idea, though. Once they start licensing to other manufacturers, they lose a modicum of control over their quality control.

    Microsoft gets away with it because the majority of their users are either stupid or don't care. Apple, OTOH, is still in a vulnerable position. Their growth has been enormous, but one wrong move on their part could bring the whole stack of cards tumbling down.

    1. Re:Not surprising by pootypeople · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think you've hit on one thing, and Apple's already got a good partner for this- They've been playing very nicely with HP. If they keep their current deal with HP intact and build on some systems building (I'm thinking the mini), they could really increase their market share quickly. Honestly, I love this whole story because I'm hoping Apple will realize they've got an opportunity here to start the all out OS war we've needed to have for years. If you don't believe that- how much innovation has occured over at Microsoft since Win 2k? Hell, the version number of XP makes it pretty darn clear. Microsoft certainly doesn't see enough threats around to seriously develop their software, which while it's allowed them to make windows more secure, hasn't pushed them to work on some of the things Apple does better (less feature bloat, better memory handling). I dunno. I'm just tired of seeing both major OS makers sit back and release incremental upgrades every year or so and collect mad cash for doing next to nothing. A real knock-down, drag-out fight for the souls of x86 pcs is just what the computing industry needs.
      At least, I think so.
      james

  4. And someone DIDNT Know this was coming ? by MajorDick · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple, might be changing their system design , but they are CERTAINLY not changing their business model.

    Were there any people out there with a clue who DIDNT think this would happen ?

    Expect software workarounds (Darwin is OS afterall) or "Mod Chips" about 1 week after release.

  5. That was part of my theory by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful
    As another person posted, the article says "could". That said, here is how I think they will/might do it. A three pronged approach.
    1. Trusted Computing - A chip that normal motherboards don't have that you can check against to make sure only Apple motherboards will run it. This will keep out the casual users.
    2. OpenFirmware/EFI - I'm hoping for OpenFirmware, but ANYTHING other than the standard old BIOS. This would keep out casual users too. They'd have to write their own BIOS for their motherboard (or find one somewhere) because it would be different. Apple brought us USB (Intel made it, Apple made it a success), Apple got rid of the floppy, maybe Apple can get rid of the BIOS.
    3. Signed Kernel - I wouldn't be suprised to see Apple use some kind of integrety check on the kernel during boot. The idea is you can still run any OS you want, but OS X (as part of startup) would check the kernel (again, maybe using the trusted computing stuff) to make sure it hasn't been modified. That way if people try to modify it to get around ideas 1 or 2, OS X wouldn't boot.

    All three seem reasonable to me. The combination would definatly stop the casual users (until someone figured how to simulate it all in a VMWare type environment, which I would think would take awhile).

    --
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  6. It will be no surprise if Apple does this by ichbinderharlekin · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Apple is in a bit of a unique position right now. Apple is both a hardware and a software company. Their revenues from each are highly dependent on the other. Without Mac OS X and Apple's line of professional tools (Final Cut, Logic, et cetera) their hardware is practically useless. Without their hardware, there is a much larger task in optimizing the software, not to mention the lower revenues (which for a company the size of Apple is a big deal). Locking Mac OS X down to Apple hardware is something Apple will have to do, at least in the near term. As their market share changes this may become unneccesary, but even then I expect the greatest revenues to result from the combination of hardware and software.

    In my opinion, I expect that there will be some contingent of shady users attempting to hack OS X to run on commodity hardware. I actually look forward to this, but I think that Apple will care little about this because of the small number of users who will bother with this. If installing OS X on commodity hardware is possible, but non-trivial, Apple stands to lose very little (and perhaps even gain a tiny bit more market share from the /. crowd).

  7. Answer: no by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative
    Will Apple's hardware check for a signed loader and lock the hardware to only running their OS as well?

    After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."

  8. Re:More likely that they'll do the following by grub · · Score: 4, Interesting


    I expect to see something similar.. a copyright string in the PC BIOS. Were Dell, Gateway, whatever to write this string in their BIOS, Apple would have no end to the possible lawsuits it would open up.

    AH, but what if the manufacturers incorporated a user-customizable string in the BIOS much like the "asset tag" settings we have now?

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  9. Re:Outdated by jocknerd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple is a software company who makes money off their hardware.

  10. Re:Outdated by GlassHeart · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Hell even the iPod... what truly separates it from other players? Yeah the hardware is good, and it looks slick, but it's the interface.

    Yet one key aspect of that "interface" is the scroll wheel, which is hardware, just as one key aspect of the original Macintosh GUI is the hardware mouse. I find these hardware versus software arguments silly, because to me Apple is a company that is able to solve problems either in hardware or software. Therefore they are both.

  11. No Mac clones by maggard · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Macs have never had a 'clone market'.

    There have been "licensees".

    There is a huge difference.

    When IBM lost the clone battles Phoenix & everyone else were free to offer reverse-engineered work-alike PCs. Not just "mostly alike", just alike. Buy the same MS or whomever OS, install the same Lotus 123 or whathaveyou, it's all a commodity.

    IBM later tried to recapture the market by redefining it with MicroChannel, their proprietary & well defended next-gen bus architecture. But the ISA market was too big and had enough momentum that IBM's efforts were doomed and look, 25 years later they're out of the PC market they helped create not having made a profit at it in years.

    On the other hand Apple, after a few early skirmishes, never lost control of their products. Their architecture didn't lend itself to easy reengineering and there was rarely an eager alternative OS vender around to make non-MacOS boxes viable. Be, Yellow Dog, etc. never were more then novelties.

    What Apple did do was, under contracted terms, sell their proprietary system ROMs & MacOS 7 to third parties for a licensing fee and per-unit compensation. The idea was that these nimbler & more aggressive partners would expand the Mac into markets Apple wasn't interested in or where it was unable to compete effectively (usually cost or distribution-wise).

    However instead companies like Power Computing turned around and cannibalized Apple's domestic bread-&-butter Mac market by offering similar systems at price points slightly below Apples.

    A few did expand the Mac into new markets - high-end multi-processor, etc. but by-and-large it was a financial disaster for Apple. They were already suffering from extremely poor supply chain management, a shrinking market, and high R&D costs; to then start supplying direct competitors with products that undercut their own was disastrous.

    So when the opportunity arose with a new MacOS to change terms Apple did - they bought back their licenses and shut down the program. Most folks agree if they hadn't the company wouldn't have lasted another year.

    What has changed since then? Not much.

    Apple now does charge for their OS upgrades, but makes no effort to enforce this. They've leveraged their R&D by adopting more standard components, adopting & using some open source code & development, and now moving to Intel-associated motherboards & CPUs. But to date they make their profit on selling the hardware & the rest is mostly part of the package.

    So, Mac-clones?

    Probably not. Apple is unlike Wintel - they sell the hardware and the OS: There's no advantage to their opening either end to competition. Heck for protection they could build their OS so it does something as trivial as look for an Apple-encoded string in a system firmware and sue the bagoobers outta anyone who tries to fake that.

    Beyond that Apple has a long history of innovating in fundamental ways. While the development boxes they're shipping out now may be based on plain-jane Intel tech there's no promises that substantial parts of the Mactels won't be something fresh 'n funky - clever memory architecture, bus design, whatever - intractable hardware/OS interactions that homers & cloners can't easily reverse-engineer.

    Time will tell, but Apple, it's officers & engineers, aren't stoopid; they're likely not looking to start giving away their crown jewels and undercutting their fiduciary responsibility no matter how many geek fan-boys want MacOS X on their hopped up Athlon-with-fins box. Me, I'll be looking forward to buying a Mactel someday, and not giving a damn what's inside of it as long as it-just-works.

    --
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