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Cross Skilling Across Multi-OS Platforms?
drtheman asks: "I have been working in the IT industry for the last 10 years, 7 of those as a UNIX system administrator. I have been noticing over the last year or two that companies are becoming very pedantic about specific skills that a UNIX sysadmin should have. Most troubling for myself is the so called multi-skilled UNIX/NT administrator.
It's a given that any seasoned UNIX admin should have *some* Windows knowledge, and cross skilling is something that shouldn't be balked at. However, after coming from large enterprise environments, where the UNIX boys do the UNIX stuff and the NT guys do the Windows stuff, I just find it a little troubling that if I don't adapt with certifications in these platforms I may become unemployable. Do other enterprise admins think that this is too much for us to take on, and companies are just expecting more bang for their buck these days? I can understand that these multi-skilled people are needed in the smaller shops, but I would like to know how it would work effectively in larger ones."
These are usually recommendations on job sites for resumes that companies most likely will toss out because the guy hiring "knows some guy."
I honestly can say I don't have a certification in any regards, I have experience, and "I know people."
IMHO, 9 times out of 10, knowing somebody will get you farther than another bullet point on a resume
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The HR people have a checklist of skills (or worse, certifications and buzzwords) but don't actually know what the job requires.
I'm a Linux administrator, and when one new job appear my IT Director ask me of my windows skills. I said to him that I known something about Active Directory and installing web servers, not so much like a MCSE or MCSA. He told me that's enough and hired me, this lesson tell me that the business is looking for one specialist that known a little about other OS. That's all folks.
http://www.michel.eti.br
Almost everything boils down to a matter of syntax
I realize this is the simplistic view, but it has helped me in my daily jump between Windows, MacOS X and various Unix platforms.
I am always surprised how narrow minded UNIX-only admins are. The way to succeed in the IT Admin game is to be able handle the most hardware, platforms and operating systems. The more you learn, the more you earn. Your UNIX experience will pay off in Windows administration as most UNIX admins are used to "getting their hands dirty" whereas a lot of Windows admins I meet are "Next, OK, Apply, Cancel" kind of guys. Plus Windows is becoming more command line oriented (Thank God!).
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Shouldn't we have to be MUCH MORE willing to accept that there are girls in IT? we start by accepting this fact, and being less and less "boy" centric, and many will come ;)
Carlos Niebla
As much as I hate Windows, I have to know it. There are many add on and other related products out there that your companies non technical offices buy and you have to make it work. Knowing Windows in addition to UNIX is essential. Windows is not really all that different then UNIX to make ir difficult. In fact, some of Windows limitations make it easier to learn then Linux. Certifying in Both? Questionable. HR departments need to let the technical areas do the selecing and rely less on using certs to weed out people. I have found that certs DO help you, but only if you also KNOW the info. Wallpaper will only get you some interviews. Having a impressive resume in addition to know people in the industry helps alot.
Gorkman
We must be hopeful of the possibility that those companies which want to mix NT with UNIX will poison themselves, and lose. The drag of NT licensing and unreliability will put them at a competitive disadvantage.
You never actually worked in the industry, have you?
>Sorry.. If either one of the words came up in an interview, I would think twice about employing you.
Yes - no one wants to hire an intelligent, literate subordinate. They might wind up replacing you.
Everyone here is going to tell you the same thing, diversify. But here's the reality: if you limit yourself to one domain (like only UNIX) you're really closing some doors for yourself. If you know enough of NT administration (I assume you'll have to be interfacing with Windows at some point), you're far more useful. !!HOWEVER!!, don't confuse that with becoming a master of Windows admining, unless you want to face the very real possibility that this is what you'll be doing exclusively in the future. When some PHB in your company decides to put in some Windows servers, who's going to be admining them, you, or your coworker who only knows UNIX systems? Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. Know enough to fix problems when they affect your work. Don't know enough (or at least pretend not to) so that the bulk of the work of NT administration is Somebody Else's Problem.
Where I've found that I've been able to demonstrate the most value is in those situations where we need to get something done on a platform that nobody on the team has used before. I don't have a whole lot of fear of alternate platforms -- their really just new learning opportunities. Sure, I have assumptions and preferences about what one can do better than another, but these become more educated opinions the more I have to work in alternative platform contexts. For example, I have to drive a continuous integration project for some development teams that use C# and .Net, when most of my experience has been with Sun Java and Web Services. I recognize that I don't know diddly about how to do the job under the new conditions, but I'll have more value (I hope (crosses fingers)) when I get to the end because of what the challenge will force me to learn.
As a rule, I'd say that being adaptable, and willing to accept the challenge of learning new stuff has been more important to me (and how I think I'm being valued) than being (and staying) the uber-733+ lord of one platform or technology. Then again, I also have a lot more resources to draw upon at the current job. At the last one, I'd have to buy the necessary books and learn it all on my own. Were I still there, I might think differently.
Hope it helps,
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
In smaller businesses or development houses, it's simply a monetary issue. You want to hire one guy who can do it all, or at least do it all 90% of the time and find a creative solution the other 10%. You only have to pay one person as opposed to two. It's the same in creative houses. Nowadays if you want to be a web developer on your own or in a small house you have to be able to do everything from HTML to PHP to PERL to Flash/Actionscript and maybe even MySQL. Since the bottom fell out of the market, companies just can't afford to hire 5 experts where 1 guy with medium knowledge will suffice.
Almost everything boils down to a matter of syntax
:)
In case of Windows it actually boils down to being ready for most bizzare sh*t you cant even imagine.
Like installing buggy USB driver f*cking up DHCP client's ability to renew IP address. Or installing desktop skinning software causing Windows to start failing installation of virtual network adapters. Or that disabling (certain) personal firewall software actually not having a full effect on a traffic until the next reboot.
Truly entertaining stuff. Far more lively than just mastering command syntax
3.243F6A8885A308D313
I'd strongly recommend against that. Webmin is okay for certain things, but it's horribly broken on many distros. The bigger distros (SuSE, Mandrake, Red Hat/Fedora) provide their own tools for administration; use them. Otherwise, you're best off doing it manually if you actually want to learn how things work.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
My ultimate advice to people who are currently employed and in the driver seat to make purchasing decisions... buy as much heterogeneous equipment for your environment as possible.
It gives you more responsibility, making it harder for companies to let you go. And more experience into your future resume.
Even if your gorinization is big enough to have seperate techs, never say that you'll never have to work on the other side. I mean say you are the UNIX guy for a company, all you do is mind the UNIX servers and write programs for them and so on. Windows is handled by a team of Windows guys. Then, one day, all but one of your Windows guys isn't there. They are sick, or on vaction, whatever, it's just one guy and something major happens. A virus starts making the rounds as the CEO has a big presentation to give.
Well, if you say "I don't do Windoze that's not my job, go away," you won't be very popular. Sure you aren't a Windows guy, however users don't really understand that. You are a computer guy, why won't you come fix their computer? If, however, you know enough about Windows to do basic systems tasks, you can help the Windows guy, go get the CEO setup with Powerpoint and such, and come out looking like a hero because you were able to fix things not directly your responsiblity.
I know if I were in a technical management position, I'd much prefer those with some skill, and more importantly willingness to work with all our various platforms. I'd rather not have a Linux guy that will only do Linux because if time comes I need 110% out of the crew I have for a problem on a different platform, he's not going to be any help.
All certifications are is a way for companies to bilk a lot of yearly money out of people looking for jobs...you go through all of the 10,000 dollars it takes for your win2k certs and then suddenly ms releases their winxp certs, which means you have to start from scratch, etc...
if you are working for a company worth working for, they will realize that certs are a never-ending 'upgrade path' that forces the company & potential employees to pay endless amounts of money for information that is non-hands on, not useful in the actual day to day working environment.
doesn't matter if it's an msce, redhat, solaris, oracle or (insert your favorite cert here) certification - if your employer wants you to have the skills in that particular application / platform / etc then they will be willing to pay for it as well.
if not and they insist that it's a requirement, then you probably want to get a different job with a company that actually respects on the job training and 'realworld' skills.
I am (as an employer looking to hire) less interested in certs than I am in quantifiable skills working with and/or shipping products for the platforms in particular.
Gekido's Lair
The problem with spending time learning A, is that you miss out on learning B. So while you're cross skilling and learning Windows, you won't be studying perl, python, kernel hacking, C or one of any other of the thousands of things that would make you a better Unix admin.
Yeah, that's a pretty nice delusion you've got going there.
Xiphos
So, I'm a systems admin taking care of a high-performance Windows/Linux/Solaris/VVMS/Cisco imaging network at a major hospital in New York City. Magnetic resonance imagers, ultrasound scanners, digital flouroscope rooms, fiber obtic backbone, terrabyte array storage archives, etc. etc. We interface with GE, Philips, Cerner, Dell, Microsoft, Cisco, etc. etc.
That being said, there are a couple of key cross-platform skill sets that are invaluable in these types of heterogenous environments. The first and foremost skill set is people skills, of course. Being able to manage vendor call centers, sales personel, field service engineers, and so forth. Also, you gotta be able to deal with people, especially end users who you support. Unless you're in the IT industry and are writing code or maintaining trunk lines for a telcom, you're probably supporting the IT needs of some other industry, and therefore have end users. Those people are the ones who are going to make or break your career. If your end users love you, word will spread and you won't have any problems with your career. If not, look for another job. So, people skills are the number one skillset that can be taken from one operating system to another. I'd also recomend Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" as a good introductory book on how to handle people. Even if you think you're good with people, you might be surprised at some of the nuggets of wisdom that are hidden in there. (And for those of you with the typical knee-jerk response, the book is about overcoming manipulation, false pretences, and shallowness. It advocates sincere interest in other people, which you can't get from reading a book one time. So, do yourself a favor, and ignore the title. It's a somewhat unfortunate title for a fantastic book.)
From a tech perspective, you want to look at internetworking concepts. Specifically, the Open Standards Interface (OSI) Internetworking Model. Learn it and love it. It's the single most useful tool I've come across in understanding, implementing, and maintaining enterprise wide network-enabled applications (e.g. teleradiology, radiographic archiving & retrieval, electronic medical records, etc). It's good for everything from hospital systems, to grocery stores, to small offices, to factories, to anything else I can think of. If you learn the OSI Internetworking model, you can go just about anywhere. And yes, I'm talking about the 7 layer OSI model: Physical, Data, Network, Transportation, Session, Presentation, Application. Also, I would note that the OSI model can be used for much more than just ethernet and configuring network cards. The OSI model can also be used on sneakernet and be used to model physical sneakernet devices, such as video monitors, printers, scanners, speakers, and any other device that is connected to a bus and has some type of physical interface that is used to communicate information (e.g. audio waves, printed paper, video images, motion sensors, etc)... A true grasp of the OSI model can allow you to be troubleshooting Cisco switches in the morning, nuclear MRI scanners in the afternoon, and HDTV/THX home entertainment systems in the evening.
Anyhow, those two items, Dale's Book and the OSI Model, however, can provide you the cross-platform people skills and technical skills to work in nearly any environment you want.
I've been working in IT, running big websites and webhosting for 11 years. I have also intereviewed dozens of candidates for various junior-, mid- and senior-level positions.
I've been a system administrator, programmer/analyst, tools developer, database administrator and senior-level security engineer. Soon I'll switch jobs again to application development (with some web stuff and operations thrown in). The fact is, what I've done has been driven by what I wanted to do--when you like doing something, you acquire deep and useful skills in it; if you acquire skills merely because you think they make you more valuable--well, hell, why do you want that job anyway?
I've never had an interest in working with Windows--the last time I used Windows was in 3.11 days. If I got myself a bunch of NT skills and some certifications, where's that going to get me? A job where I administer Windows? Write some Visual Basic scripts? No thanks.
There's a few things I hate when interviewing people for jobs, and people who have "checkbox" skills in subjects that don't interest them are one of them. You can always tell--they have experience or certifications working with a certain technology but no understanding of it--they can't "geek out" about it and learn intricacies if necessary.
Networking (the social kind, I mean) is huge, especially among people that can grasp your skill. All but one of my jobs have come from people I know (often former bosses) approaching me. When you work with stuff that you really like, that you can really understand deeply and use to deliver excellent work, you will shine like a star; and that star-power is what will get you jobs.
If you want to learn about and use Windows, then by all means do; and while you're at it, pick up a couple of certifications why not. But if you don't, no power in the world is going to make you good at it, or enjoy it; so the only consequence is possibly finding work that you're not good at and don't enjoy. Blech.
demi
Dang, the parent post should be put in a post hall of fame. In one simple post, he covers: Windows vs Unix, the fight against hackers, D&D, and workplace politics.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
Lets say you are a Windows Administrator and then you learn the Unix way of doing things. Now that you learn the Unix way you end up being a better windows administrator because some of the things you learned in Unix can transfer to windows side. Like if you were trapped to the Windows GUI after learning unix you may feel a little more comfortable writing windows scripts and depending less on prepackaged programs. Also If you Unix administrator and you learn Windows administration you can improve you Unix stills by making more use of the newer GUI unix admin tools that are available where you were bone dry on the old commands you may find some of the newer graphical admin tools in Unix have considerable ability to improve certon areas.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Two words:
Google.
Safari.
If you know how to maximize them and you can do IT in general you are all set.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein