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Revolution Downloads To Recieve Graphic Upgrades

Posted by Zonk on from the plumbers-new-clothes dept.

Joystiq reports that certain Revolution-downloadable games will be recieving graphical upgrades, ala the classic NES titles released for the GBA. From the article: "...[Nintendo] did not divulge the nature of the enhancement, nor did he hint at whether the technology would be integrated into the Revolution's hardware or be a part of the downloaded game itself. Theorists speculate that it may entail reskinning some or all of the classic games in Nintendo's lineup, as was done for the compilation Super Mario All-Stars for the SNES..."

90 comments

  1. Graphics are good, but... by MagicDude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hope they also upgrade the sound as well. They can do so much with the scores to Zelda or Metroid if they can escape the limitations of the original NES and its midi sounds.

    1. Re:Graphics are good, but... by SetupWeasel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't know about that. I love the old NES midi. For instance, I have Mega Man Anniversary Collection for the GameCube. Mega Man 2's music was fucking inspired. I don't want anyone messing with it. In fact, I wish more people would use that old synth.

    2. Re:Graphics are good, but... by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 1

      I used to think the same thing until I heard minibosses' version. Check out miniboses.com some time, hearing them play all the best songs from mega man 2 is awe inspiring.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    3. Re:Graphics are good, but... by SetupWeasel · · Score: 1

      They make a noble effort, but the originals are still the best.

    4. Re:Graphics are good, but... by hunterx11 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the didn't use MIDI--they used 2a03 sound chip in the NES. There are still nerds making 2a03 music, with many actually writing it in assembly.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    5. Re:Graphics are good, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Original 8-bit synth sounds(whether from an A203 or a SID or a POKEY) are generally always slightly more abstracted and untextured than a later synth or real instrument - this makes them sound "worse" than any update, but also encourages imaginative listener involvement like a book vs. a movie.

    6. Re:Graphics are good, but... by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      Nitpiks

      "They can do so much with the scores to Zelda"

      Listen to just about any Zelda game released from the SNES era onward.

      "or Metroid"

      Metroid: Zero Mission for the GBA.

      "original NES and its midi sounds."

      The NES wasn't anywhere near advanced enough to handle MIDIs. IIRC, it was all analog.

    7. Re:Graphics are good, but... by Bozzio · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First off, the NES did NOT use midi.
      NES Sound

      Second, that's not necessariliy a good idea. Composers often write for the instrumentation they have, and changing the instrumentation afterwards can really harm a piece.

      Here's a good (but probably nit-picky) example. In the original SMB3 the steel drum sample was of low sample rate and resolution. In the SNES version (and especially GBA) the higher sample rate and resolution sample wasn't equalized the same. The composer would have picked up on this, but saddly he had no part in the conversion. This may not seem like a big issue, but the end result was that the wrong harmonic(s) were heard, and the perceived pitch of the sample is incorrect (though the fundamental may still be correct).

      Another, less acoustic, example is in Street Fighter 2010. One of the best tracks of that game is a serial piece using the square waves. It's totally freaky and practically made me crap myself as a kid. The NES sound hardware was perfect for it. (Poorly) Emulated (read sampled) square waves don't have the same feel... believe me, I transcribed the piece for MIDI, and it killed it.

      MIDI is a great technology, but NES music doesn't translate well to it. This is because most of the great NES music works were written with the NES sound hardware in mind, and changing the instrumentation of a piece (any kind of piece) often takes away from the composer's original intent.

      Take the Bayou Billy soundtrack.. it made wonderful use of the square wave channels to sound like funk rhythm (muted) guitar! This is something that can't be done in MIDI without special samples, and the number of samples required to correctly reproduce the effect would be immense!

      You mentioned Zelda and Metroid, which both underwent wonderful musical transformations as the console sound technology improved.. But realize that these new tracks weren't simple transcriptions, but clever arrangements. That is exactly what made them so great! The composer/arrangers used what the SNES could offer as their new instrumentation and wrote/arranged around that.... Just like in the old days with the NES.

      So, I return to my main point: Changing the instrumentation of a piece can be detrimental to the intended effect, ESPECIALLY in VG music where the hardware was often heavily considered (or even the inspiration) in the creative/compositional process.

      --
      I just pooped your party.
    8. Re:Graphics are good, but... by justforaday · · Score: 1

      As others have already pointed out, the NES didn't use midi. Midi is a very specific thing, not just a general catchphrase for "digital music." Please try to have a basic grasp of the terminology before throwing words around that you don't understand.

      --
      I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
    9. Re:Graphics are good, but... by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 1

      Some other guy responded to you w/ something about that minibosses bullshit. Fuck that. Check out the NESkimos. You won't be disappointed, I promise.

      --
      [o]_O
    10. Re:Graphics are good, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Play nice, children.

    11. Re:Graphics are good, but... by FortKnox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The original "Metroid:Prime" had all the original metroid sounds in it, just hidden behind the orchestra.... worth listening to if you get the chance...

      --
      Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
    12. Re:Graphics are good, but... by Dwedit · · Score: 1

      The only game for the NES to use midi was Miracle Piano Teaching System. It interfaced with a keyboard plugged into controller port 1 using MIDI to send and recieve note events.

    13. Re:Graphics are good, but... by radish · · Score: 1

      Agree with everything you say, apart from the fact you seem to be equating MIDI with samples, which is most certainly not the case. For example:

      This is something that can't be done in MIDI without special samples,

      Or a square wave generator.

      MIDI doesn't control how a performance sounds, that's the instruments. As an extreme example, I'm sure you could MIDI retrofit a NES, then you could have exactly the same sound, but from MIDI.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    14. Re:Graphics are good, but... by Bozzio · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but I don't follow.

      MIDI works by storing musical information such as note pitch, duration, location (in time), special effect, etc... Because of this, you can very closely reproduce a musical performance if you put enough work in your sequencing. A problem with MIDI, however, is that your bank of instruments changes from device to device, so unless you write a piece for keyboard X and only get it played through keyboard X it will sound different (and probably awful) otherwise.

      You mentioned MIDI instruments and Square wave generators... MIDI instruments are simply samples (or in older cases, FM sounds) so they can only play a fixed, predetermined number of sounds on a given piece of hardware. A generator, on the other hand, can be thouroughly manipulated to affect the timber of it's output, creating a gamut of potential sounds. Also, a generated 'instrument' can cover a range of several octaves without quality loss. On the other hand, a sample will deteriorate under this pitch manipulation, which is why MIDI instruments often require several samples per instrument to cover a range of several octaves.

      Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, but my point is: If the music was composed for wave generators, then there is pretty much an infinite number of possible sounds that can be created (spanning all the games, not just one!). This means that if these sounds were to be accurately transfered to a MIDI based system, you would need either to download a sound bank for every game (inefficient) or have an infinitely big instrument bank.

      You also need to consider the possibility of a game generating sounds on the fly. User input could modify pitch, duration, and temporal placement (like MIDI), but it could also affect timber through additive synthesis (combining the effects of 2 square channels, one triangle channel, and a sawtooth channel from Konami's own sound chip) or simple just create static noise or random sounds.

      In the end, it would just be totally inefficient to port all of the game's soundtracks to midi just for some minor improvements in some games on some tracks. It will always come down to the fact that these pieces were not written for MIDI, and to convert them (and do them justice) would require A LOT of work.

      --
      I just pooped your party.
  2. Mixed Feelings by bleaknik · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I, for one, have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I want the original classics just the way I remember them.

    Then again... I wasn't one to complain about the All-Stars cart graphical upgrades, neither.

    Hmmm.... Vintage games do have small footprints. Maybe the Big N could bundle two different versions of a game's textures with each download...

    That's right. I rock.

    --
    Deja Vu
    n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
    1. Re:Mixed Feelings by Sancho · · Score: 1

      That would be nice. Part of the fun of playing these old games is the nostalgia factor, which is reduced when you update them.

      Then again, I'm one of those weirdos that wants Lucas to release the original trilogy without the later additions/changes.

    2. Re:Mixed Feelings by hunterx11 · · Score: 1
      Then again, I'm one of those weirdos that wants Lucas to release the original trilogy without the later additions/changes.

      I think that this is kind of implied by the fact that you post on /.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    3. Re:Mixed Feelings by bleaknik · · Score: 1

      But the new 3D Star Wars aren't that bad, are they?

      Then again... there are some who would consider many things unnatural.

      Heh. Yeah, I want my original theatrical release SW DVD, too.

      --
      Deja Vu
      n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
    4. Re:Mixed Feelings by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'll be watching for that with baited breath. I'm really interested to see how it pans out, and frankly, as long as the originals aren't coming out anyway, it doesn't affect me one way or the other.

    5. Re:Mixed Feelings by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Bated, even. :)

    6. Re:Mixed Feelings by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

      Nintendo have a rather good record when it comes to graphical updates , unlike some other companies(Namco ,Atari etc.)
      Generally i have always been rather please to play the graphical updates of some of the vintage games.
      Mario all-stars just been an exceptional make-over.
      Come to think of it though , i do really enjoy the classical look as-well and hope they keep it as an option (preferably with an option switch so you don't have to download two copys

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    7. Re:Mixed Feelings by cipher+uk · · Score: 1

      You don't rock. Someone already put forward the idea of having original and updated sets for download in the linked article.

  3. Antialiasing and filtering by snuf23 · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Then again, Nintendo may choose the simpler route of merely incorporating a filtering or anti-aliasing method to improve the quality of the existing graphics. Certain N64 and SNES titles could benefit greatly from a method such as this."

    This seems more likely to me. Most modern emulators have various options for filtering and antialiasing the graphics display. While purists may scoff at the softening and smoothing effect of the filters - it definately makes the games look let chunky.

    --
    Sometimes my arms bend back.
    1. Re:Antialiasing and filtering by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 1

      Why not combine both worlds?
      Allow to the user to set up their options just like in an emulator?
      Surely it will dumbed down a bit instead of giving you over 20 filtering methods.

      --
      ^_^
    2. Re:Antialiasing and filtering by Jagasian · · Score: 1

      They also introduce graphical artifacts of their own. Some make the image more blury, while others distort the geometry of certain graphics. This is one of the main reasons why purists are against such pixel filters.

  4. Simply put ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They are probably paying a couple of artists (per title) to update the sprite based graphics on the NES/SNES titles. If I remember correctly, the SNES had a maximum resolution of something like 320 X 240 so this graphical update would put the graphics as being more detailed than SNES games. As a guestimate, this would probably cost $50,000-$100,000 which (compared to modern 3D games) is cheap; hell, I'd bet that they could update their entire library of 2D games for less than it would cost them to produce a next-generation Zelda game.

    1. Re:Simply put ... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      Then I guess the updated "Mario revolution", formerly "Mario GB advanced", formerly "Mario 3" would be another title to the library.

      Perhaps it works. After all, if there is one thing you see today's DS landscape... Nintendo can't ever backup a new system with enough games anymore. The last Nintendo system with a decent sized library is SNES. So why not bring everything back legally instead of letting people use emulators and roms for free.

    2. Re:Simply put ... by falcon5768 · · Score: 1
      actually the gamecube has a pretty big library, it definatly has more games than the xBox has (about even on the cross platformers, with more gamecube only games than the xBox despite what xBox players want you to beleive)

      Likewise the DS theoretically has a much larger library than the PSP, if you count Advance games too, since they play both advance and DS games. Infact all my games for the DS right now are advance games, cause Im waiting on the big games I want to play to be comming out for it (Animal Crossing, FF:CC, FF III etc.)

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    3. Re:Simply put ... by Ark42 · · Score: 1


      NES and SNES where both 256x224, although SNES supported 512x448, it was only used for some still screens usually, not any action in-game.
      It's the 8x8 tile which is only allowed 4 colors per tile (on NES) that really creates the bad graphics. Allowing truecolor sprites and backgrounds, and taking advantage of that, even at 256x224, would make the games look a ton better probably.

      --
      Morphing Software
    4. Re:Simply put ... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/stats.asp

      The above says the Xbox has roughly twice as many games as the GC, probably mostly due to lacking third party support. There's no way to filter the list for exclusives only.

      Your DS needs Kirby: Canvas Curse, BTW.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    5. Re:Simply put ... by Dwedit · · Score: 1

      240 rows, not 224. I hate it when people repeat and spread this lie around, many emulators got crippled in their ability to display full NES resolution due to belief in that lie.

    6. Re:Simply put ... by Ark42 · · Score: 1


      240 internally, but 224 externally on NTSC, so 224 is what really matters. I don't know if the extra 8 pixels on the top and bottom are actually possible to see or not, if you adjust your TV to shrink the image vertically. I assume they are not.

      --
      Morphing Software
  5. How about increasing frame rates? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I used to play Perfect Dark on the N64 with my brother-in-law all the time. He eventually got an XBox, and we didn't touch the N64 for a while. We were feeling nostalgic about 6 months ago, so we pulled out Perfect Dark and tried some four-player action.

    The gameplay was still fun, but was hindered by the horrible frame rate. We turned it off in under 10 minutes because a couple of people (who regularly play FPSs) were getting motion sickness.

    Anyone know if the Revolution will increase the frame rate or will it only make the games look prettier?

    1. Re:How about increasing frame rates? by DrunkenTerror · · Score: 1

      That terrible framerate was, IMO, the only strike against an otherwise perfect game. Single-player was really superb. Multi-player was ok, but not as smooth as Goldeneye.

    2. Re:How about increasing frame rates? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I wonder if that feature returns with Perfect Dork Zero?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    3. Re:How about increasing frame rates? by LKM · · Score: 1
      Anyone know if the Revolution will increase the frame rate or will it only make the games look prettier?

      I would guess that the framerate remains as it is. If there are slowdowns during parts of a game which result from the old hardware's unability to keep up with it, they will probably disappear. But the framerate of the game itself is most likely by design. It may be quite hard to speed up the framerate without speeding up the game or changing the game's code, depending on how it is written.

    4. Re:How about increasing frame rates? by Jakeypants · · Score: 1

      "Anyone know if the Revolution will increase the frame rate or will it only make the games look prettier?"

      Firstly, I don't understand how they plan to update the graphics of Nintendo games without designing them as though they were for a new system. This is something beyond normal emulation (where you do your best to emulate the way the system works - not so much for specific games).

      Secondly, to improve the framerate, it would require changes to the game's code. If you run Zelda 64 next to Zelda 64 on the Gamecube (The disc that came with Wind Waker if you preordered), they have the same framerate, although the resolution is increased on the GCN version.

      A heightened framerate would require additional work from the developers. As the system intends to emulate another system, it tries to run everything at the speed it originally ran at. Changes would have to be made specific to each game.

    5. Re:How about increasing frame rates? by tepples · · Score: 1

      It may be quite hard to speed up the framerate without speeding up the game or changing the game's code, depending on how it is written.

      Nintendo has the source code to all the N64 games it developed. Overclocking the emulated video chip (and updating the game's source code where that causes a problem) would help solve the N64 frame rate problems.

    6. Re:How about increasing frame rates? by LKM · · Score: 1
      Nintendo has the source code to all the N64 games it developed. Overclocking the emulated video chip (and updating the game's source code where that causes a problem) would help solve the N64 frame rate problems.

      True, but will they do it? Maybe it's possible that they would do it for A-list titles, I guess.

      Only "overclocking" the emulated chips will probably cause problems since games may rely on the speed of the chips being constant, and fixing that problem may be quite a bit of work.

    7. Re:How about increasing frame rates? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Only "overclocking" the emulated chips will probably cause problems since games may rely on the speed of the chips being constant

      Games rely on the speed of the audio and video DACs being constant. The video DAC goes through a 320x240 pixel buffer 60 times a second, and the audio DAC goes through a 2 channel by 800 sample buffer 60 times a second. Overclock the T&L and the triangle filler without overclocking the RAMDAC, and the game may not notice. For those games that do have race conditions under non-cycle-accurate timing, Nintendo has the source code for all of its own games; if a particular title's program relies intimately on cycle timing, just don't enhance that title.

  6. Goodness... by Sloppyjoes7 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The HEADLINE for this article contains an incorrectly spelled word. So does the body. It's "received."

    While I may be modded down for pointing this out, it just annoys me to constantly see the stories in Slashdot get posted without being edited, or even spellchecked.

    1. Re:Goodness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The HEADLINE for this article contains an incorrectly spelled word. So does the body. It's "received."

      It's worth noting that neither of the misspelled words was the past tense form of "receive".

      While I may be modded down for pointing this out, it just annoys me when people who get off on pointing out spelling mistakes fuck up their own responses.

    2. Re:Goodness... by bleaknik · · Score: 1

      Sloppyjoes7, you are right.

      /. is a community of nerds. We are supposed to be the intellectual superiors, and we can't even use commas right. And for those who previously argued against me, I suggest you double check your proper grammar rules.
      Reference 1
      Reference 2
      Reference 3

      Point being. I am a nerd, and therefore I am Intellectually Superior. Therefore I will obey the rules of C++, Grammar, and Mathematics (in that order).

      --
      Deja Vu
      n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
    3. Re:Goodness... by Rallion · · Score: 1

      "Point being." is not a sentence.

    4. Re:Goodness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody cares, smartass, kill yourself!

  7. Framerate upgrade by grumbel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What I would find most interesting would be an upgrade in the framerate, some of the early 3D titles on the SNES and later the N64 were just painfully slow and suffered from huge drops in the framerate. I would love to be able to replay StarFox or StuntRaceFX with constant 60fps.

    1. Re:Framerate upgrade by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      well since your TV runs at just under 30 FPS that would be rather difficult

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  8. Recieve eh? by GraffitiKnight · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    If I remember my grammar correctly, it's "I" before "E" EXCEPT after "C".

    1. Re:Recieve eh? by rokzy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      > If I remember my grammar correctly, it's "I" before "E" EXCEPT after "C".

      only when the sound is long e. which, in this case, it is.

    2. Re:Recieve eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      No. the correct spelling is receive. And it's "I before E except after C or sounds like A as in neighbor or weigh". Or something like that.

    3. Re:Recieve eh? by Cuthalion · · Score: 2, Funny

      And weird is just weird.

      --
      Trees can't go dancing
      So do them a big favor
      Pretend dancing stinks!
    4. Re:Recieve eh? by hyu · · Score: 1

      I beleive that would be girls' phone numbers. Don't correct if you can't get it right.

    5. Re:Recieve eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I beleive that would be girls' phone numbers.

      /golf clap

    6. Re:Recieve eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "believe"

    7. Re:Recieve eh? by Swervin · · Score: 1

      that's just wEIrd!

  9. Crap! by Daetrin · · Score: 1
    So this means i _do_ need to keep all my roms around if i want to play the real originals =P

    I suspected that would be the case, but i was kind of hoping it wouldn't be. And on the dark side, the fact that they're rereleasing the early titles, even in an altered state, may mean they'll try to crack down even harder on the rom sites =/

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    1. Re:Crap! by frikazoyd · · Score: 1

      Roms? Why not fish out your originals? I can't stand playing on a keyboard honestly, and I can't justify the 26 bones it costs to buy this, so I just stick to my old NES. Somehow I managed to take care of it and my games, so I haven't had to blow into my old cartriges yet. But seriously, I'd gladly pay $5, $10 on eBay for the actual game. Much better experience, if you ask me.

    2. Re:Crap! by rekenner · · Score: 1

      Which is why you buy this. No, seriously. I play every emulator that I have using this. With the exception of the N64, every console (and arcade button layout) works with this thing. I love it. I've always liked the PSX/PS2 controller style though.

    3. Re:Crap! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can wire up your own for a few dollars. The only people stupid enough to pay 26 would be Mac users or similar..

    4. Re:Crap! by Sancho · · Score: 1

      I'd like to agree, but those gamepads aren't particularly ergonomic. They hurt my hands long before newer gamepads do (like PS2, etc).

    5. Re:Crap! by Fred+Or+Alive · · Score: 1

      I personally use a "PC Magic Box" (PS / DC / SS to USB) and a Japanese style Sega Saturn pad. Works great for almost all retro games, and I prefer the Saturn pad to the PSX one, with a nicer D-pad, and six face buttons. Although I haven't got a PlayStation, so I haven't used the pad that much.

      For analouge it's a bit crap, it doesn't support the NiGHTS pad, and with the Dreamcast pad it's horrible, very glitchy. I haven't used a PSX pad for analouge with it yet.

      --
      10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
      20 GOTO 10
    6. Re:Crap! by rekenner · · Score: 1

      6 face buttons would be rather nice for figting games.... Or just all arcade games period.

      I've never actually played a Saturn, except a friend's. That would be a case where you'd need to do some creative problem solving for getting games to work well (like the N64)... Alas, the Saturn doesn't emulate well anyway (ShF3, how I've longed to play thee...).

      My question about what you mentioned would be if it could use all of them at once. I've had some multiplayer fun with emulators and the adapter I linked to.

    7. Re:Crap! by Fred+Or+Alive · · Score: 1

      My question about what you mentioned would be if it could use all of them at once. I've had some multiplayer fun with emulators and the adapter I linked to.



      Unfortionatley you're limited to one pad at a time, but as it's USB you could theoretically connect several convertors at once. The multiplayer bit of your pad convertor does seem quite good.

      --
      10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
      20 GOTO 10
  10. More images by frikazoyd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Images of Super Mario Brothers 2 a la Super Mario Advance.

    Also, Super Mario 3 a la Su per Mario Advance 4, and Super Mario World a la Super Mario Advance 2. Yoshi's Island (Super Mario Advance 3) has screenshots here.

    1. Re:More images by aliquis · · Score: 1

      awesome, makes me wanna play mario and all nes games for sure, but i never take me the time to do it, if the downloads are free i might buy a revolution just to do take the tame... even thought it's quite easy to get the roms for an emulator anyway, but that doesn't feel right.

  11. Addendum by frikazoyd · · Score: 1

    Note that the images of Super Mario Brothers 2 are more familiar on page 6 of the first link.

  12. ...I guess I'll just have to use the emulator.... by r_jensen11 · · Score: 0

    ... on my computer. The original NES games that are good are good for their gameplay, and now they're also good because of their vintage-ness. It's kind of like Atari games. If you update their graphics, they're not Atari games any more....

  13. Filters by dsparil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They'll probably just bring the NES games to SNES quality graphics then run everything through a filter. That wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing since Yoshi's Island looks amazing using hq3x.

  14. Language Nazis Unite! by empaler · · Score: 1

    Check your relationships ;p

  15. I before E, except by TimfromCal · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Sorry... I had to mention it. ...receive...

  16. Gameplay duplicated by Clomer · · Score: 1

    They say that they are going to duplicate the gameplay of the original games exactly, but I honestly have to question whether this is really going to be the case. With Super Mario All-stars, there were subtle changes to both 1 and 3 (and probably 2 as well, but I never played 2 on the original NES so I can't say for sure). Whether such changes were intentional or not I can't say, but it does tell me that once they start changing things there's no telling what might be affected.

    One thing I noticed when I got the Zelda Collector's edition for my GameCube that impressed me is that Zelda 1 and 2 were, as far as I could tell, duplicated exactly, right down to the sprites flickering and the annoying slowdown when too much was happening. In fact, I remember reading a review that complained that the emulation was faulty because of the flickering, but the reviewer didn't realize that this was a true representation of how the original game behaved! :-)

    --
    Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.
    1. Re:Gameplay duplicated by EverdredReturns · · Score: 1
      I really hope that the games have the gameplay perfectly intact. I also found the All-Stars versions of the old Mario games feeling a bit sluggish compared to the originals, which was weird because to my understanding they made All-Stars by taking the NES games and just changing the sound and graphics code. Nonetheless, gameplay should come first.

      As far as the presentation, I feel that developers should really go one way or the other with the ports: either pixel-perfect, or redone very nicely. I was a bit disappointed with the Mega Man Anniversary Collection, because not only did they add some extra weird sub menu junk to it, they also put a interpolation filter on all of the games that blurred everything together; a filter which can't be turned off. I would have preferred that, if they were gonna change the old NES Mega Mans at all, that they go all out and upgrade the graphics to those of Mega Man 7 or 8. Afterall, I'm pretty sure the games on that disc weren't even being emulated anyway: they were reconstructed (which wasn't even done very effectively: for example, all of the NES games' music was recorded!)

      As far as going all-out, such things that would be nice include:
      • Bumping the resolution up: 512x448 for NES+SNES games, 640x480 for N64. Don't mess with the screen ratio AT ALL.
      • Graphics redrawn in 32-bit color.
      • Smoother framerates on N64 games. Fixing slowdown on older games is up for debate since sometimes it was so common that it became a part of the gameplay.
      • Maybe higher polygon counts too, but only for big-name games (such as Zelda 64), since that would obviously kick up the cost a bit.
      • Upgraded music on the older games would be nice; I wouldn't mind NES+SNES games having their music upgraded to N64-level or beyond.
      • Adding new levels I wouldn't mind either, as long as they aren't really out-there or terrible. It gives incentive for people who played the original games to death to try them again.
      I mean, I'd be willing to pay a decent amount to download an upgraded version of Mario 3 with high-res graphics, remixed music, and 12 worlds instead of 8 (especially if Kurbio's shoe saw more action). Just remember that some games are ripe for enhancement (the Zeldas, Final Fantasies) while others are best kept as they are due to overwhelming nostalgia. My guess is very few people want a truecolor remake of Duck Hunt, complete with orchestrated soundtrack.

      Though it does sound inticing...
    2. Re:Gameplay duplicated by tepples · · Score: 1

      My guess is very few people want a truecolor remake of Duck Hunt

      Given the success of the Deer Hunter franchise and the various knockoffs, I think Duck Hunt is due for a sequel, although the home version would have to be controlled with a mouse because light guns don't work with LCD TVs.

      complete with orchestrated soundtrack.

      You asked for it: Duck Hunt Soundtrack (OC Remix).

  17. I before E except after C by nathanh · · Score: 1, Informative
    The lackluster spelling on Slashdot is rediculous*.

    * giggle

  18. Can't please everyone by LKM · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First, People blame Nintendo for constantly re-using their old content. "Where's the innovation", people cry. "I've already paid for the exact same games on my NES, and now Nintendo wants me to pay again so I can play them on my GBA! And they look like crap, anyway."

    So Nintendo goes and updates the graphics. That makes matters even worse, of course, because now people complain that they aren't getting the originals, the games they used to play when they were young. "I love the vintage graphics! And damn them if they even changed one single thing in the actual gameplay! Gah! Nintendo went the way of Lucas and Spielberg! Why don't you give them Koopas Walkie Talkies why you're at it!"

    You can't please everyone. But I would guess that Nintendo will release both the updated version and the original version where this is applicable. I hope they do, anyway. It's good to have the choice of playing both the original and a prettier version of these classics.

    1. Re:Can't please everyone by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I just want the choice. Of course, given that I've already purchased any game I'm likely to want to download (in some cases, multiple times) re-buying yet another time is not going to appeal to me. In fact, the updated graphics might actually sway me on a few games (I'd like to play The Legend of Zelda legitimately with SNES-style graphics, for example).

      It's the same with Star Wars. I don't particularly care how Lucas screws up his movies. I just want the option of the originals. If Lucas put out both versions on DVD, he'd make much more money because some people would buy both versions, while others would stick to the versions they prefer. As it is, he just wants to constantly reinvent his creation, and so he loses out on a few sales (die-hards who don't care for the new versions at all as well as those who would buy both versions) but maintains his creative control.

    2. Re:Can't please everyone by generic-man · · Score: 1

      Personally, and I speak as someone who has Super Mario Bros. DX for Game Boy Color and all four Super Mario Advance titles, I'd rather see an original 2D Mario game. Rumor has it that one is coming out on the Nintendo DS, but last I heard was that it was going to be called "New Super Mario Brothers" and that there were five boring screen shots circulating. I want details!

      --
      For more information, click here.
  19. Other companies' games? by El+Icaro · · Score: 1, Funny

    I hope it isn't redundant by the time I post it, but Prefect Dark, Banjo-Kazooie and many other games belong to rare.. I doubt they'd want to resell them now they're Microsoft owned.

    I really miss my B-K.. *Double clicks on PJ64*

  20. Excellent... by macshome · · Score: 1

    George Lucas will be pleased...

  21. Maybe OK... by macshome · · Score: 1

    If it's just filtering I can deal with it. I do that on my emu now, if anything so that it looks cleaner with the much higher resolution.

    But please don't go messing with the games. I love the old games becasue they are old games.

    Give me a box that will play four generations of Metroid and Zelda and I'll be good. I wish Rare was still Nintendo aligned for Conker and RC Pro Am. Although I would rather have Bad Fur Day on DS than on Revolution.

    1. Re:Maybe OK... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give me a box that will play four generations of Metroid and Zelda and I'll be good.

      Gamecube + Gameboy Player works for the Zelda part. Wind Waker, Zelda Collector's Edition (LoZ, AoL, OoT, MM), and Link to the Past (GBA).

  22. Hmm... by MeanderingMind · · Score: 1

    I hope they're only updating graphics for their n64 games (and maybe SNES games with that anti-aliasing mentioned). I don't care so much if the add more polygons even and make the n64 games spiffy looking, probably because I don't have the same kind of nostalgia for them as I do for the old NES and SNES titles.

    I suppose that if Nintendo does upgrade the games, it'll make some sense. While there are plenty of nostalgic nerds like me there are also plenty of children who haven't seen any of this. Having played the GBA games, or at least seen them, they'd probably be confused by the "downgrade" in graphics.

    --
    Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
  23. lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nt

  24. New Super Mario Bros. by LKM · · Score: 1
    I'd rather see an original 2D Mario game. Rumor has it that one is coming out on the Nintendo DS, but last I heard was that it was going to be called "New Super Mario Brothers"

    It's not rumors, it's official. There's even a gameplay movie from Nintendo itself. It looks really cool.

    And I agree, this is a lot more exciting than remakes of the old Mario games. Still, I'm glad I'm going to have both - a new 2D Mario (after 10 years since the last one, no less!) and remakes of the originals.

    It's a good time to be a 2D Jump-N-Run-fan :-)

    1. Re:New Super Mario Bros. by generic-man · · Score: 1

      Nice! I think that just might be a killer app for the DS. :)

      --
      For more information, click here.
  25. Asshat. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a guestimate, this would probably cost

    Is this asshat trying to add to the Dictionary?