Slashdot Mirror
AI Researchers Produce New Kind of PC Game
Ken Stanley writes "In an unusual demonstration of video game innovation with limited
funding and resources, a mostly volunteer team of over 30 student
programmers, artists, and researchers at the University of Texas at
Austin has produced a new game genre in which the
player interacively trains robotic soldiers for combat. Unlike most games
today that use scripting for the AI, non-player-characters in NERO learn
new tactics in real-time using advanced machine learning techniques.
Perhaps projects such as this one will encourage the video game
industry to begin to seek alternatives to simple scripted AI."
If this technique provides for fun gameplay, or more importantly, a notable difference in the experience, then sure, it might become more common.
Keep in mind though - entertainment is meant to be entertaining, not neccesarily realistic or academically advanced.
---------
Get back to me when my brain starts working.
This is a neat concept, with or without the "neuroevolution" approach (evolving artificial neural networks with genetic algorithms). Including human brains in the training loop for algorithm development is key. The reason so many AI algorithms have found limited application in fielded physical systems (such as weapon systems) is because the competing approach--dozens of smart engineers, working long hours, tweaking human-readable algorithm code and Monte Carlo simulating the tweaked designs over and over for years--is so effective.
I'm rather surprised that they didn't set up a torrent.
* chirp * chirp *
> Perhaps projects such as this one will encourage the video game
> industry to begin to seek alternatives to simple scripted AI.
hopefully it will encourage the video game industry to begin seeking alternatives to Yet Another High Resolution First Person Shooter.
Perhaps projects such as this one will encourage the video game industry to begin to see alternatives to simple scripted AI.
Not unless companies like Sony start making their hardware with ideas like this in mind. 2 TFLOPS is impressive for insane real-time graphics operations, but floating point operations aren't exactly optimal for things like AI.
(I know TFA was referring to PC games, but so many games are multi-platform these days that often developers just work with the least common denominator.)
Mods: Do you disagree with me? Go ahead and mod me down. Meta-mods will sort it out. Good luck!
Is it fun to play?
The problem with expensive investments in AI is that the publisher must have a series of successful games built on the fruits of that labor before there is any profit. This could possibly be mitigated somewhat by licensing this engine for use by other companies, but this is also weighed by the fact that your competitors are now using the same or similar types of advanced artificial intelligence in their games which may hurt sales of your own games. Large publishers, such as EA and Microsoft, have the resources and wherewithal to make these long term bets, but the smaller boutique firms have neither the willingness nor the ability to finance the development of these types of advanced engines in house. It may be useful to look at some numbers from 2004, courteously compiled by the http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/blog/2005/02/24/" >shrapnelgames blog.
The total revenue for the game industry in 2004 was 1.2 billion dollars which was down 100 million from 2003. During this same period only two games had sales of over 500,000 units, but there were 18 games which had sales of 250,000 or more. Based upon the varying definitions of what constitutes a "new release" there were roughly 1,100 games released in 2004 of which maybe 6% earned a profit. The average budget for a competitive game is said to be around two million dollars with an average break even point of around 110,000 units sold. The average retail game price is $24.45 with only 5,000 total units sold.
Clearly, the open source community is willing to undertake these efforts on their own initiative or for other reasons related to research, as was the case with the student produced game. I am in no way denigrating the efforts of these students, what they produced with the resources available to them was simply amazing and of surprising quality. However, in the world of retail games it takes a certain amount of marketing, advertising, and Wal-Mart end caps to rise above the background noise, unless you are like the aforementioned established game companies and the reputation speaks for itself, at least until they release a real stinker. At the end of the day, when all things are factored in, there is simply not enough money in the budget of the average game to make this type of advanced artificial intelligence worth the risk and expense, at least right now. However, if there is any constant in the game industry it is change and this will probably change in the years to come. I would like to see some new and innovative games too, instead of Madden 2017, but it looks like we will have to wait a while yet.
Yeah, because as humans, we do a really good job of making that distinction. Hopefully that's not the model we're using to train these robots...
gameDB
I'd like to know if the NEROs can evolve more advanced tactics such as:
When its health is less than 5% and likely to die, make a final kamakaze run at a tough enemy to deliver a mega bomb, draw fire, etc...
Gang beat downs - Even though the NERO is closer to enemy tank B, focus your fire on enemy tank A since its damage is critical and about to be pushed over the edge.
Unload power ups - Before picking up a weapons upgrade that would replace my super grenade, go ahead and lob all of my super grenades before picking up the power-up.
Waiting for power ups to cycle - In some games, a power-up changes every few seconds. Could the NEROs learn to wait for spread-fire on one level versus lazer fire on another level? Okay, levels is too easy, how about depending on the situation, what my friends have, etc...
And most importantly, could NERO's be taught to perform "ethical cheats"? By ethical cheat, I mean take advantage of the game engine or environment in a way not intended by the developers. -Not by patching code or using network sniff bots.
Sure, these seem like pretty simple tactics, but YOU try programming this kind of AI. It's next to impossible!
This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
Trust everyone, but count the cards. I'm just sharing the file I downloaded, but I don't expect you to trust me any more than I trust you. Scan it. Run it on a testbed machine. I could be evil.
I'm not, but I could be.
Visit Lockjaw's Lair. He won't bite.
don't be a punk. surt wasn't 'slinging names around' -- you asked him a direct question and he answered it. his original point was that AI really isn't new ground, even 5 years ago - he wasn't seeking celebrity status.
I'm going to be harder on you than I would/will be on the OP, since you decided to jump in.
I'm sure that you think that link is a slam dunk, but I think that it is telling that you haven't a single word of your own on the topic.
I think that your conception of combat is naive. I think these poor sons-of-bitches in the tanks that fired on their comrades made a gut-wrenching decision under impossible circumstances. In the dark, in a foreign land, in abject and immediate fear for their own lives they saw what appeared to be hostile troops firing on them.
These weren't guys who had been "in country" for weeks and months, and had developed an instinct for differentiating an RPG hit from enemy cannon fire. This was some 20-something guy, maybe a year out of West Point, or two out of ROTC, and some enlisted men, maybe 19 or 20. If they had the presence of mind to formulate a though more complex than, "Fuck! Those bastards are trying to kill me!" then they are probably better men than you or me.
Combat isn't like a game of chess. One can't sit back an contemplate the possible repercussions of one's actions. It's smoky, dark, dirty, hot, and freezing, windy, rainy mess. It's being hungry, scared, and confused. Sleeping standing up, and having rashes in places that we don't talk about in mixed company.
Now, I'm in favor of any technique or technology that you can come up with that reduces fratricide. But smug, flippant comments that show no application for the realities of combat make me sick.
-Peter
I always get interested in "new genres" of video games, especially because most video games these days involve carrying big *cough* guns, shooting people, and having the opportunity to hear abusive one-liners said to women.
Needless to say it's pretty boring for anyone who isn't all that macho. Even Vampire: Bloodlines was spoiled by the offensive scenes and the dull FPS combat gameplay... and that's hard for me to say because there's nothing I like more than sneaking around in shadows and sucking out people's blood.
So when this revolutionary new genre involves... training soldiers to shoot each other with big guns. I mean, wow, how "new"!
If they had more time, the "researchers" would have probably added a few more "sexy" woman screens.
*worship*
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.