Slashdot Mirror
The Ergonomics of Controllers
Rahul Choudhury writes "Over the years, the controller device we use as our extra limb into the world of gaming has evolved from joystick to d-pad, analogue control, and touchscreen. Gamingredients investigated the pros and cons of a variety of controllers from Colecovision to Xbox (and expressed their scores in flavours of coffee)."
Controlers haven't changed since the SNES era. The controller is still the same basic shape with the same basic buttons (1-2 moved or enlarged, but same style). They just added more bells and whistles.
I mean do I really need a vibrating joypad for anything but making noise? I don't even feel it any more.
I like muppets.
While lacking the sophistication of today's controllers, the Atari 2600 joystick was still a lot of fun for those of us who were actually around when it first came out. And at least with one button you didn't have to wonder which one to press.
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The Sega Saturn 3d controller was perfect. It had the six button setup from the original, but was otherwise the same as the later Dreamcast controller.
The perfect device for playing Street Fighter series games.
--saint
I still swear by dual shock 2, although I really really like my thrustmaster PC controller. The rubber grips are especially nice.
I need a wireless controller that uses rechargable batteries. The next generation part is that the controller recharges off sweat. What a waste to continually wipe away all that sweet sweet sweat when the controller can be sucking it up and letting me game as long as my eyes can stay open.
Just scroll up to the top of the Slashdot page. That Atari joystick is the icon for this type of story.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Man. Nice attempt, but it's too bad they're really, really wrong when it comes to their scores.
... because Nintendo has a patent on a 4-way cross controller.
Take a look at the Genesis controller versus the SNES Controller. The Genesis controller had a better D-pad? What? The whole problem with semi-8 way D-pads is that they aren't actually as precise as the pure 4-way ones. In some games this is okay, but in others you prefer actually knowing which direction you're pushing. Sega didn't use it as an improvement. It was because Nintendo had a patent on a 4-way cross D-pad.
And deriding the SNES controller for its buttons? What? The Genesis 3-button and 6-button controllers had identical buttons. You had no idea which ones you were pushing without looking down (or knowing from position). The three-button design was bad, not good - you can locate two buttons, because whatever button your thumb is on, the second button is the other one. With three, that's not the case. The SNES controller, on the other hand, had two concave and two convex buttons. You could tell which button you were pressing by touch, and you could locate at least 2 of the other 3 buttons purely by touch, and because they were lined up in the way they were, you could locate the last one as well. Much, much smarter, and the touch-location is sorely missing from most modern controllers.
My favorite is this comment, regarding the GameCube controller:
This encouraged simple, single-button play without sacrificing versatility. It also made multi-console games a lot harder to play and made ports from other consoles worse.
I see. So Nintendo makes the most intelligent controller of all of them, and they lose points because it's harder to play games that were poorly ported and designed for worse controllers. Good call.
And, also...
And, in a cruelly ironic twist, everything else changed but the d-pad is still split
A whole lot of opinion, but absolutely no concept of ergonomics.
with the exception of the stupid position of the black and white buttons the original behemoth xbox controller is pretty damn good in my opinion. i really dont like the micro-sized sony controllers.
i will admit, however, that my aversion to the sony dual shock could be that i HATE the original PS contoller. that could be one of the worst controllers ever made, imho. it's interesting that it was omitted from the list. i mean they cover nearly everthing but that (with the exceptions of jaguar and 3d-0).
also, the N64 controlle aint bad at all. granted all i ever played was smash brothers, goldeneye, mario kart, and rogue squadron. but for those four games you couldnt ask for anything more.
i think this guy is just some over-caffeinated sony-fan-boy.
just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
I didn't agree with much that, that guy said at all. Maybe it's because I'm a left handed coleco owner I dunno, but I have always thought that the gamecube controller is superior to the PS2 controller in many ways with the exception of one. The surface on the analog part on the PS2 is much better then the gamecube. If they could just take that sticky rubbery stuff and put it on a GC controller, and move the Z button it would be perfect.
What I found really funny about the article was the fact that he commented on the ergonomics of the PS3 and XB360. How the hell can he do that? Has he actually played games with those controllers? He's basing it on what they look like.
If I did that, I'd say that the N64 controller was incredibly clunky. But when you actually hold it, it's feels right. The dreamcast controller looks slick, but when you hold it, the angles don't feel right.
Just wait until you see Nintendo's new Revolution controller.. I've seen it and its unlike you've ever seen before!! Its amazing! It totally revolutionizes what a controller has come to represent!!
This site shows a speculated tree of evolution of game controllers.
It is indeed evolutionary, with each generation resembling the previous one, but a bit different.
^_^
This article is worthless without mention of the Intellivision controller. Especially as they slam the old Atari one some much. Where the Atari's was simple, the Intellivision's was a complicated affair with a weird disk and a keybad that you could attach overlays too. Check out In Defense of the Intellivision Hand Controller for an interesting look at this oddball of a controller.
Also worthy of retro note is the bizarro Bally Astrocade gun grip controller which could function as both joystick and paddle.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
There is no controller more comfortable or better suited for playing games than a SNES controller. Any game that needs more buttons is not fun to me. Also, any game that has more buttons is bigger and bulkier = not worth my time.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is a choice for evil.
No mention of the powerglove? That was about the only exercise my right arm got until puberty.
bring 'em back. They were perfect for sports games...
The GC controller is by far my favorite - and I have all three machines. You can identify each button by touch alone. Maybe I am a retard, but I am forever looking down on my Xbox controller to recall what buttons are where. I finished Prince of Persia and Medal of Honor on both my GC and my Xbox and while the graphics are that much better on the Xbox the controller superiority of the GC made the games a little easier.
Not that the GC controller couldn't use some small changes, such as the shoulder trigger buttons which I find big and cumbersome. I would also prefer if the Xbox and GC controller featured parallel analog sticks, like the PS2 controller.
Slices, dices, eats your lunch.
The only problems I had with it are that he gushes over the weak Dreamcast controller like Nerdshoe, and the Dual Shock part looks like it was written by a completely different person from the Dual Shock 2 one (I agree with the former, though I disagree with his verdict concerning the Select and L3 buttons). Besides that, I think this is pretty good, especially since he has the courage to speak the truth and say that the GameCube controller sucks.
Rob
He completely skipped alternate controllers from the listing. He didn't mention abysmal failures like U-force and the Powerglove. He also missed out on awesome ones like the NES MAX. Which happens to be my all time favorite NES controller by the way- turbo buttons, good egronomics, and I likes the black rim much more than the traditional Dpad.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Ok, sure it has its flaws, but Nintendo was on the right track here. It's almost like they were thinking of putting an analog stick there, but it just didn't quite make it unfortunately. It's also far more ergonomic than the original NES controller. Unfortunately the d-pad just didn't work too great. I still have one gathering dust somewhere.
From the Dual Shock 2 segment:
"This is the current gold standard."
Wait. Hang on a second. The author says the SNES controller was crap (even though it introduced shoulder buttons). They also say the N64 controller was practically an abomination (even though it introduced analog thumbstick and rumble).
Now, stay with me here.
The Playstation Dual Shock controller is very simply an SNES controller with handles, analog thumbsticks, and rumble. How is it that this sets the "gold standard" when all of its components are from such "inferior" products? The beloved Dual Shock is a conglomeration of Nintendo ideas, layouts, and engineering that is almost 15 years old now. Also, it bears mentioning that Sony intentionally violated standing patents and copyrights and included the rumble feature without paying the license fees like Nintendo and Microsoft did. The Dual Shock 2 is a hack and a ripoff, the thumbsticks are poorly actuated, and the d-pad is harsh and uncomfortable. Will someone please tell me how that qualifies it as "the gold standard"? Is it because everyone uses it? Is that what makes it the best?
Now, a couple other things to think about. Here are a list of things that Nintendo invented:
D-Pad
4 Face Button Layout
Analog Thumbstick
Rumble Feature
Viable Wireless
They invented EVERYTHING that every other company uses. Please explain to me why that makes their controllers the worst available pieces of hardware? See I would have thought that would make their controllers cutting edge, the best available technology at any given time, and the guiding light destined to be copied and copied poorly by whichever other companies are occupying the video game market at the time.
One other thing to consider. I have a friend who used to have a bit of a temper when gaming. We played lots and lots of PS2 and gamecube. PS2 controllers will shatter under relatively little force - one strike against a refrigerator and they are just toast! However, my friend through my wavebird all the way across the livingroom THROUGH one of our kitchen cupboards, and it only has a slight scratch on the Z-button.
I just think that says something quality of the Nintendo products.
By and large, I agree with most of the conclusions. It would have been nice to see a little more (or indeed, any) discussion of classic PC controllers, from the era when the joystick was king. Anybody else remember the Thrustmaster F16?
On the current generation controllers, I think it's maybe a little harsh on the X-Box S-controller. Yes, the white and black buttons aren't brilliantly placed, but it still has a number of advantages over the dualshock. A single set of shoulder buttons, rather than two, feels more intuitive and it's much, much easier to use the S-controller's shoulder buttons in an analogue capacity. I suspect this may be why PS2 driving games (such as Gran Turismo 3 and 4) tend to default to using the face buttons to emulate pedals, while the X-Box games (such as Forza), usually default to shoulder buttons. On balance, I'd take a good set of shoulder buttons either time. I also find the S-controller's analogue sticks a bit stiffer, which is nicer for playing fpses and driving games, although perhaps less good for twitch-shooters and beat-em-ups.
Oh, and while Nintendo may have been pioneers with wireless controllers during this generation, let's not forget that they used a pretty unscrupulous practice to encourage adoption. The cable length on the default Gamecube controller is PATHETIC. I like to sit a decent distance from my TV to play games. This means that if I want to play a Gamecube game, I have to pluck the system out of the cabinet and put it in the middle of the floor. Not impressed.
The fire buttons on the Dual Shock 2 are actually a minor masterpiece of ergonomics.
The circle button is the one next to the circular right edge of the joystick. The square button is the one next to the square center section. The triangle button points up. So all the symbols relate to the physical feel of the joystick in your hands, without looking at it, with the sole exception of "X" which I don't find hard to remember.
On the other hand, the GameCube controller does what he suggests, and labels each button with a letter. And as a result, every time a game tells me to push "X" or "Y" I have to pause, look down at the controller, and hunt for the symbols.
I dunno, maybe "X" and "Y" make sense to people who are long time Nintendo zea^H^H^Hfans, but I can't deal with it at all.
At the same time, he misses the really big problem with the Dual Shock 2, which is that the L1 and R1 buttons are impossible to keep fingers on comfortably while using the analog sticks. With my thumbs on the analog controls, my hands raise up and my trigger fingers naturally slide down to L2 and R2.
I did see a third party joystick which had L1 and R1 lower, and L2 and R2 banked slightly behind them, so that the natural grip was to have all four shoulder buttons under fingers, and thumbs on the analog sticks. Unfortunately, my experience of third party joysticks has been pretty negative.
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About the Colecovision controller:
It's really convenient for no one, and this pad provided no improvements over the Atari classic.
Anyone who grew up with both an Atari 2600 and Colecovision will tell you, the Colecovision controller did provide improvements. Sure, some of them were minor, such as using the numeric pad to select the gameplay options instead of flipping a dip switch on the console like Atari; but by far the biggest improvement was comfort. Playing Centepede (sp?) for half an hour on an Atari controller will tend to cause pain in your "stick hand", especially when the controller starts to lose responsiveness due to intense play and you really have to put some effort into moving it. In contrast, the Coleco controller was leaner, making it easy for a child to hold, it was symmetrical, making it easy for a lefty to play, and the "D-Pad" was as easy to maneuver as today's analog sticks.
It's like the "reviewer" didn't realize that this thing was meant to be used with two hands and not one. You held it with your left (or right) and hit the buttons with the thumb and index fingers, and you used the other hand to control. It was the old Gold Standard.
In my house we specifically used the Coleco-stick for all our old-school gaming. We used it on the C-64, the Atari, and the TI 99/4A. It was the best there was at the time.
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The later alternative to the Atari 2600 joystick was the Epyx 500XJ. Much more ergonomic than the basic joystick but still just a single button. My only complaint was that it was for right handed players only and one friend that I used to play with couldn't use it.
Ok, this makes me more confident that the Revolution controller is severely needed for the next generation of video games.
While the fire buttons on the side were somewhat less painful than those of the Colecovision (at least they didn't need two pounds of force from your thumb), and favored either hand (the same two buttons were duplicated on both sides), Atari's bleeding-edge use of flex circuits was their main downfall.
In addition to the circuits being fragile (if you didn't know how to open the controller properly, you would ruin it), oxidation of the tin contacts made the buttons unreliable within a year, even if you didn't use them. One of the later versions had graphite coating on the contacts which made the buttons reliable, but Atari didn't realize this and settled on a final revision with uncoated contacts. They probably knew that gold plating would fix them but were too cheap by then to use gold.
And if the buttons didn't fail, one of the fifteen wires in the 6mm thick cable would break and make your control useless anyhow. Or one of the (non-socketed) CMOS input buffer chips on the motherboard would blow out.
It sucked for gamers, but was great for Atari. That thing had over a dozen patents associated with it. Too bad none of them related to ergonomics.
I actually made an adapter which connected one side of the fire button to a big piece of foil, then I would wrap another around my toe and clip it to the other side of the fire button. My "Foot Control[tm]" kicked total ass.
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Anyway, I've found that I prefer the PS2 and Xbox controllers over the gamecube one, but not by a huge amound.
Xbox: I love the left thumbstick location, making it the clear default choice for when you go to move something. The four main face buttons are well done, with both letters and colors identifying them. I wish that the black and white buttons could be shoulder buttons instead, and it is a little big, although not as big as the classic version.
PS2: Its small and light. I was able to play the PS2 with a cast on my left arm, for god sakes, its that tiny. Not a big fan of making the left analog stick constantly looking like an afterthought, but, hey, that's just me. In the end, though, its really solid, with all of the buttons easily accessible.
GC: I hear the point made about the different button shapes, but, seriously, when was the last time a gamer, soft or hardcore, couldn't tell where each button was without looking at the controller? But, still, it does come in handy for first time players, and I love the analog triggers. But the right thumbstick I've never really liked, and, gasp, its short a button. That last button can get annoying when dealing with cross-platform games...
Just sayin', guys, that he's wrong on some counts and right on others. Doesn't mean he can't present his opinion.
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"The Genesis 3-button and 6-button controllers had identical buttons. You had no idea which ones you were pushing without looking down (or knowing from position). The three-button design was bad, not good"
:)
The six-button one wasn't the best, but you can learn that from muscle memory. In fact, that's how people play Street Fighter and many other 6-face button games. Plus, for the record, the B button had a little nub on it (not unlike the j and f buttons on a qwerty keyboard) to encourage you to "touch type" on the controller. It wasn't the best design, but it was a nice step towards their ultimate design, the Dreamcast controller.
The Dreamcast controller got a lot right: colour coded buttons (like the Super Famicom), nubs in different directions (all buttons felt different), analog shoulder triggers that are useful (I can't race with a PS2 controller), and a decent shape that fits into your hands. But, the article did gloss over these points
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Everyone has their own favorite based on their own individual experiences. I have been playing games since 1980 when you just had a knob to twist and have played with nearly all the controllers since. Of the latest batch I personally like the PS2 and Gamecube controllers, the Gamecube being the most comfortable for long sessions. Not to bash the Xbox but it has to be said (and you all know its true deep down) the XBox controller was a train wreck and damn uncomfortable to play with (I couldn't believe that they could get it soo wrong), they remedied this to some degree with the S model, I just hope they have learnt their lesson and give the 360 a comfortable controller.
A couple of months ago I was talking to a coworker about console games. And the invariable "yeah, but gamepads suck for FPS and RTS" pops up.
That's the downside of this phenomenon that everyone basically copies a previous gamepad, with only minor tweaks: they also copy the limitations of it. We've been stuck with the "yeah, but for FPS or RTS you're better off with a PC and a mouse" syndrom for more than a decade already. And now I see that the next generation consoles _still_ did nothing about making a controller that's fit for those.
So here's the idea we came up with: a gamepad with a trackball instead of the right thumbstick. (The left stick would remain a stick, of course.)
Think about it. I've had co-workers that played multiplayer PC FPS (e.g., half life) on a trackball, and they weren't bad at all with it. And it would definitely rule for selecting units and clicking around in a RTS. Plus a few other possible uses, like point-and-click adventures.
And for more traditional console games, I think it wouldn't be any worse than a thumbstick. In the vast majority of games the right stick either isn't used at all, or is used for looking around, or is used for scrolling text and such, like in Jade Empire. Neither would work any worse with a trackball.
So that's my wish. That some console manufacturer would finally start shipping just that.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
the 5200 controller was definately over-designed for the system, another huge flaw was that while the contoller sported a fairly nice analog stick, it was exactly the wrong type of controller for a system primarily marketed as an arcade system. Seems that the few games that actually used the controler as an analog one used it poorly as well.
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Genesis controller better than the SNES? Even a tie? No way. The three button layout on the Genesis controller was a dog and made if hard to reach buttons. The SNES two button layout was much more comfortable, and it was only in the rare games (e.g. SFII) that it was a bit of a pain trying to re-configure buttons (but easy enough).
In the end it was the SNES controller which has influenced modern controllers, with the button layout and the shoulder buttons. I personally think that the author has too much of a false romance for the genesis style three layout (or 2x3 layout in other sega controllers).
They also have a strange fixation on the Dual Shock - they even miss out that the original PS controllers were not even dual shock. Overall a so-so article.