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Who Cares if Analog TV Goes Dark?

AVIDJockey writes "Take this with a grain of salt, but earlier this month the Consumer Electronics Association giddily released data showing that of America's 285 million TVs only 12 percent (33.6 million) are used for watching OTA broadcasts. In a further revelation, the CEA's numbers say that approximately 3 million (around 10 percent) aren't used for viewing broadcast television at all. Instead, the electricity gobbled up by these sets is used to play videogames, watch movies on DVD, or view old Jane Fonda exercise tapes."

32 of 827 comments (clear)

  1. -1 Troll by XorNand · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Only 12? Funny perspective you seem to have..

    If a CEO embraced a plan to cull 12% of the company's existing customer base in one fell swoop, the board would having him packing his office into boxes the next day. Bah... consider the source: Home Theater Magazine. This article is just brash, elitest techogeek strutting: "Well, who doesn't have a digital capable TV nowadays anyhow? Luddites!".

    --
    Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    1. Re:-1 Troll by Dukael_Mikakis · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree. First, 12% means that a lot of sets will be effected, but the additional problem in in who will be effected.

      By now most Americans won't even notice because they receive their television through cable or satellite, but the people who would be effected (still receive analog television) are more likely to be lower class and the overhead of upgrading (however small it might seem) might actually mean a great deal to these people/families.

      The point is, those who still rely on analog are probably already somewhat disenfranchised because of their likely economic class that this conversion (however "progressive") might serve to disenfranchise them further.

    2. Re:-1 Troll by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 4, Funny

      You don't know much about Web design do you? CEOs routinely blow off Mac users when they design banking and e-commerce sites.

    3. Re:-1 Troll by bhtooefr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm in an interesting situation. I've got cable Internet access, but no cable TV - can't afford it, and don't see the need for it.

      I can pick up NBC, ABC (sorta), CBS, and PBS (kinda) with my antenna. Between NBC and CBS, I've got enough to watch (yes, I watch the lame shows.)

      However, when analog broadcast goes dark, I'm simply not going to HAVE a TV. I've got cable Internet - if I want to watch a certain show, I can run BitTorrent.

    4. Re:-1 Troll by Dukael_Mikakis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True. But what about those who can't afford a computer or the internet (or don't know how to use them effectively) who still watch a 20 year old set and for whom upgrading will be a significant expense?

      You and I probably have very reasonable alternatives to analog TV (I have cable, you can BitTorrent), but I'm sure that many of these 30 mn sets still on analog don't.

    5. Re:-1 Troll by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

      You don't know much about Web design do you? CEOs routinely blow off Mac users when they design banking and e-commerce sites.

      Mac users don't have any money, they spent it all buying their macs. And any money they get after that gets blown on gourmet coffee and avant-garde theater.

    6. Re:-1 Troll by indifferent+children · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Advertisers already know the income breakdown of their audiences. Nielsen doesn't just give a 'share' number to the advertisers; a lot of demographic data goes with it (race, income, gender, education-level, etc). So no, this won't give the advertisers better data. It will just lock them out of advertising to the poor.

      Don't neglect the bread-and-circuses value of TV for the poor. Right now, they watch 5+ hours of cheap, mindless entertainment every night. If you take that away, what are they going to do with those 5 hours? They might just wake up and realize how much they are being crapped on by our economic and legal systems. They might decide that there is a small group of people at the top who are responsible.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    7. Re:-1 Troll by drakaan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Right, only rich people should be able to watch TV. Those poor people need to get off their butts and breathe some fresh air, maybe get a better job.

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    8. Re:-1 Troll by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bumper Sticker: Work Harder! Millions On Welfare Are Depending On You!

    9. Re:-1 Troll by kooshvt · · Score: 4, Funny

      TV is not a necessity. People can (and have) lived without it.

      Blasphemer!!

    10. Re:-1 Troll by DaveJay · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What about senior citizens on a limited budget, with limited mobility? For those people who have few entertainment options open to them, television is often their only companion.

      Just something to think about.

    11. Re:-1 Troll by ChuckleBug · · Score: 4, Funny

      You may not believe this, but a lot of people do a lot of useful things with their time and also like to have to option of watching TV now and then. Owning a TV doesn't mean you're a slave to it and will never do anything else. That fact that we can all cite examples of someone who just watches TV all the time doesn't refute what I'm saying.

      People always talk about this in terms of a (false) dichotomy: Either you're a professional couch potato, or you read 4 novels a week and spend the rest of the time training for the Tour de France. I realize parent didn't outright say this, but his comments sound rooted in this kind of thinking.

      One we admit that TV is something that can be used responsibly, the argument that it doesn't matter if poor people can't afford it because it's good for them turns into something incredibly patronizing, which is how I see it.

    12. Re:-1 Troll by robertjw · · Score: 4, Funny

      Owning a TV doesn't mean you're a slave to it and will never do anything else. That fact that we can all cite examples of someone who just watches TV all the time doesn't refute what I'm saying.

      OTOH, TV has very little redeeming value. Programming is designed to keep you watching and tuned in. The recent fights by broadcasters against Tivo and against Satellite companys offering network broadcasts from other areas just emphasize the point that TV broadcasters want you to sit on the couch from 6-10pm every night and watch their shows. Owning a TV doesn't mean you're a slave to it, but not owning a TV (or not being able to pick up OTA broadcasts) guarantees you are not a slave to it.

      Once we admit that TV is something that can be used responsibly, the argument that it doesn't matter if poor people can't afford it because it's good for them turns into something incredibly patronizing, which is how I see it.

      How so? The fact of the matter is there is little downside to not having a TV. It's not a right, it's not a requirement to fit in to society, it's not a requirement for local or national news. I just can't get too upset about a certain percentage of the population not being able to use their TV sets.

    13. Re:-1 Troll by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why are the poor entitled to everything?

      They aren't, but we should give at least a little consideration to the idea that it would be nice to let them keep what they already have.

      That said, if a digital receiver with analog output for the equivalent of VHF and UHF broadcasting is reasonably cheap, say $50-$100, I don't think it's a horrible problem. You simply need a little black box connected to your DuMont so you can watch Hee-Haw reruns after 2007 or whenever the switch gets thrown.

      Personally, I'm betting this switch-over will be so complicated and expensive that analog TV will last until we have IPv6 in place on most or all of the Internet.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  2. This may be obvious but... by Shkuey · · Score: 4, Funny

    Roughly 12% of television owners?

  3. paying too little?!?!?!? by ericspinder · · Score: 4, Informative
    In related news, the Cable & Satellite Higher Subscription Fee Association released figures claiming that 72 percent of subscribers felt they were paying too little for their monthly programming. 18 percent said they'd gladly pay twice as much if the level of customer service could be lowered. Surprisingly, a full six percent indicated that they'd rather watch TV from cable or satellite than eat or have sex. (The margin of error for the survey is +/- 100 percent.)
    Ah, responsiable journelism. When I first read that last paragraph, I did a double take, but with the variance of 100%, it's got to be a joke. **But I saw it online, it's got to be true, I mean the site even looked really professional and everything**
    --
    The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
  4. workout tapes? by justforaday · · Score: 5, Funny

    Instead, the electricity gobbled up by these sets is used to play videogames, watch movies on DVD, or view old Jane Fonda exercise tapes.

    Surely this must be code for something else...

    --
    I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  5. analog is not standard is not hd.... by yagu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Somebody help me out here. I thought standard television was going away, not analog! There's a difference at least from the information I'm able to find. It's possible for HD to be broadcast analog, and it's possible for standard television resolution to be broadcast digital.

    So, I'm not entirely sure what this article is trying to say (but, I'm not an expert in tv formats and broadcast formats).

    The most telling information (in my opinion) from the article:

    • 60 percent subscribe to cable
    • 24 percent subscribe to digital satellite

    Neither of those stats imply that noone is watching old standard television with their old sets.

    1. Re:analog is not standard is not hd.... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the US, HDTV is digital. Analog TV really is going away.

    2. Re:analog is not standard is not hd.... by caudron · · Score: 4, Informative

      Somebody help me out here. I thought standard television was going away, not analog!

      They don't make it easy to figure out, but this is the deal:

      The FCC is mandating that analog signals go the way of the DoDo once a certain minimum percentage of digital viewership exists (theyfirst set firm dates for this, then realized that no one cared about their dates).

      The FCC could not muster less concern for whether or not those digital broadcasts are HD, ED, or SD. They only care that they are digital, becuase the digial signal allows them to parse the signal in ever finer ways to auction off and make more money.

      Most people assume that this means the broadcasts will be HDTV, but in fact the only /mandate/ is for digital signals. Those local broadcasters are leasing their bandwidth off to make some extra green on the side as well. That leaves them less badwidth to transmit their own signal, which means that even if they do claim HD, they often do so with a noisy comprression ratio.

      Locally (Virginia Beach, VA), for instance, the only station to really stick to the idea of very high quality HDTV signals is PBS. Nova looks fscking STUNNING on my HD screen. As for the rest? Well, at least the signal is clear, but as for just how HD it is...I can say it's better than SD and often better than ED, but flipping to PBS shows just how downgraded the HD signal is on local stations like NBC, CBS, and ABC.

      Note that locally I have access to every broadcasting network in digital and (ostensibly) HD quality to compare. This means, ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, WB, UPN, and PBS.

      Also, I have no cable or satellite service. I only watch OTA TV and movies from Netflix. Using a digital receiver, I can get crystal clear pictures that are better than the lossy encoded signal the cable and sat companies give us(though I do miss The Daily Show with Jon Stewart) and I pay nothing. I can wholeheartedly recommend it.

      I hope that helps clear up some of the confusion.

      --
      -Tom
  6. Elder Viewers by thegoofy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You have to remember who is in that 12%. Most elderly viewers are the ones less likely to spend money on a new TV Set or that fancy shmancy cable. They are also the most likely to vote.

  7. from TFA: rather watch TV than eat, have sex by FerretFrottage · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Surprisingly, a full six percent indicated that they'd rather watch TV from cable or satellite than eat or have sex."

    These were the 6 percent that just found out that Firefly was going to air on SciFi in its intended order.

    --
    "Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
  8. Margin of Error by Alien54 · · Score: 5, Funny
    In related news, the Cable & Satellite Higher Subscription Fee Association released figures claiming that 72 percent of subscribers felt they were paying too little for their monthly programming. 18 percent said they'd gladly pay twice as much if the level of customer service could be lowered. Surprisingly, a full six percent indicated that they'd rather watch TV from cable or satellite than eat or have sex. (The margin of error for the survey is +/- 100 percent.)

    That about covers it for me

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:Margin of Error by Otter · · Score: 4, Informative

      The CEA study is real. The last paragraph of the Home Theater article is a intentional joke -- the rest is just inane.

  9. Re:As one of those 12%, I care. by Dukael_Mikakis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, but there are a great many Americans who do rely on television to stay connected to the world because they can't afford/don't have access to/don't know how to use the internet and for them television becomes less of a luxury than a necessity, and from what I've read this is one of the big concerns regarding the conversion.

    Granted the news on television (and even on the radio) tends to be softer than that of a newspaper, but it probably is their strongest connection to the nation/world. Simply because almost all of the middle/upper class won't notice the conversion (and might even benefit from it) doesn't mean it won't have its consequences.

  10. Re:TV Broadcasters raise your hand... by rk · · Score: 5, Funny
    You were warned about the switchover nearly (maybe even more than) a decade ago; you have had plenty of time to prepare

    But the warning was in the basement, in the bottom of the bottom drawer of a filing cabinet, in an un-used lavatory with a placard stating "Beware of Leopard."

  11. Next Slashdot poll: by i2878 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot Poll:

    Most common use of your TV:
    1.) No TV - just a HDTV tuner in my PC (geek answer)
    2.) DVD viewing (Dad's answer)
    3.) PBS viewing (Mom's answer)
    4.) Porn viewing (Slashdot answer)
    5.) Stand for my other TV (redneck answer)
    6.) Football viewing (no-neck answer)

    --
    legal. fun. profitable. pick two.
  12. Has the picture quality worsened?? by Insightfill · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I was younger, and OTA was what we had, picture quality was affected by passing planes and poor television signal locking.

    Now, years later, OTA is barely watchable in the same house (line of sight to Sears Tower, Chicago). The picture shakes, wobbles, and sometimes cuts out entirely for no apparent reason.

    Questions: 1) Have the TVs changed so that they're less tolerant of OTA signals? 2) Have TV broadcasters dropped signal strength because "it's just being watched on cable anyway"? or 3) Has the signal noise floor risen over the years with a proliferation of cell phones, garage door openers, and keyless remotes?

    Or lastly: has our tolerance for poor signal dropped over the years, where we expect nothing but razor sharp pictures from our TVs?

    All I know is that I've had to get cable and satellite over the years when all I've really wanted were the local channels. However, I was able to convince DISH Network to let me keep the local channels for $5/month and drop all of the rest. Which is what I wanted all along.

  13. Re:TV Broadcasters raise your hand... by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't recall where any of the TV broadcasters signed a contract with viewers like you guaranteeing your 20 year old TV would always be able to receive a useable free signal.

    It's called "customers". Generally businesses don't want to lose the consumers, and they'll fight the FTC of they are forced to convert before enough customers convert.

    Better emegergency service communications systems, which is one of the things that spectrum is going to be used for once it's available.

    You've been fooled. Only a very small part of the spectrum will be used for emergency communication systems. It's a straw man argument.

    The Big Government is forcing everyone to switch from analog to digital so they can auction off the public spectrum to private companies. It's a way to help pay for the national debt, but the irony is that they're forcing consumers to spend money to receive the same level of service.

    The irony here is that they'll be disabling analog TV and eventually analog AM/FM radio. Which is the primary emergency broadcast system for the vast majority of Americans. They're disabling the existing emergency broadcast systems.

    Now, the Big Government asking us to ditch all of our old equipment (which works fine), and spend alot of money for pretty much the same level of service.

  14. Re:True number of Analog viewers by LocalH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's a stark contrast to what I've witnessed in this area. There is one duopoly that owns both ABC and UPN affiliates. The UPN affiliate is acquired primarily from the DTV signal (in fact, the analog broadcast is actually just a digital receiver tuned to the right channel), including by all but one cable system (which acquires both NTSC channels via fiber). Also, the way I understand it, some cablecos are actually taking the ABC station's HD signal OTA (upconverted to 720p), cropping it back to 4:3, and downconverting it back to 480i. Apparently, ABC requires all programs to keep important graphical elements in the middle 4:3 area. As well, from what I understand, 99% of all local HD signals broadcast on cable (and probably DBS too) are directly sourced from the OTA signal. It's probably more widespread than you realise, albeit maybe not so in your area.

    "cannot sell airtime on"? Why not? 99% of all digital transmitters are simulcasting with analog broadcasts, which means that the airtime is ALREADY sold. In fact, depending on the numbers in this area, one could potentially charge more for such simulcasted airtime, although that probably isn't feasible in many areas due to lack of DTV adoption in the home.

    --
    FC Closer
  15. The sky is falling by ArmorFiend · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, can you imagine, when we had 0% television, we fought ourselves free from Britian, abolished slavery, created a inclusive democracy, and defeated fascism.

    Since we got 100% broadcast television, we haven't won any war that's gone on more than 12 months, and our electorate is getting increasingly fuzzy on the theory of evolution.

    Am I the only one seeing a relationship here? We should pray for all TV to die. We should wish TV on our enemies.

  16. Re:-1 Fucking the poor by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, let's screw everyone who can afford a one-time purchase of a TV (analog color TVs are cheap) but can't afford monthly digital cable bills.

    This is absolutely eltists trying to widen the tech gap by eliminating the trailing end of the curve. Things are already headed in that direction; let's not try to deliberatly speed it up, okay?

    Whore cares if analog tv goes dark? They answered their own question: 33 million households care, asshole!

    You're absolutely right, this is a troll. A self-serving corporate-whoring troll.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are