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Cassini's Got Pictures And Data

MythMoth writes "To celebrate the anniversary of the Cassini-Huygens probe's orbital insertion, NASA's JPL has a set of fifteen amazing photos from the past year. Meanwhile, the BBC reports that some of the latest science data from the mission reveals that Saturn's ring system has its own (thin) O2 atmosphere, and that the planet's rotation seems to be slowing!"

109 comments

  1. O2 Atmosphere + Water by nxtr · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    How come none of these so-called 'scientists' ever check out things that have water ice for life? We're all so crazy about finding it on Mars, but why not Saturn?

    1. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by Bad+D.N.A. · · Score: 1

      Um... and how exactly would you propose we do that with the instrumentation on the spacecraft? It's not like you're the first person that has thought of life on Saturn. Go ahead and advocate another 1B mission to the planet equipped with the instrumentation to conduct such experiments and the "so-called" scientists will be knocking a path to your door.

      --
      "Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
    2. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by lhbtubajon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There were several ways you could have asked that question without being utterly disrepectful, and without sounding like you're lashing out at the world.

      The people you're talking about are hardworking and dedicated people at the forefront of exploration. If the sequence of their efforts at exploration isn't logical to you, consider the possibility that you lack key information fueling your basic assumptions, and frame your question with that in mind.

      Otherwise, it's more difficult for the people who know the answers to cull the question from the troll.

    3. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next mission, we'll send you in the box.

    4. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by frankthechicken · · Score: 3, Funny

      Agreed, I still find it amazing that we can send these probes out into space, take some photographs, send the images back to planet earth and see the beauty of our solar system whilst sitting in a comfy chair.

      I also find it amazing that no matter where we travel nowadays we always find the need to take photographs and there is always one picture with a fingerprint blocking the view.

    5. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Astral Projection will allow us to go to all of our planets in our system and see if there is life, can be life, or if there ever was life. Meditate, pratice, you will get there without a ship or life support.

      Peace.

    6. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by lemonlimeandbitters · · Score: 1

      Well, most of these so-called 'scientists' are aware that Mars has a surface and Saturn does not. Most of the ways we imagine life starting involves goopy watery pools. Saturn is a gas giant. Pools don't form on planets without surfaces.

      Can you at least check Wikipedia before you started breaking out the pejorative references to people whose work you plainly do not understand?

    7. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by maotx · · Score: 1

      I personally like this one.

      Kinda has the whole Death Star look to it...

      --
      I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.
    8. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by MythMoth · · Score: 1

      While he could have phrased it better, I assume he was referring to Titan, rather than Saturn. Titan is indeed thought to have "watery pools" (ok, methane, but it's probably liquid at least).

      I had a rather wistful hope that the Huygens probe would either get stuck in a tree on the way down, or eaten by something... ah well, wishful thinking dashed, but I do think the pictures (and more importantly the science) are just stunning.

      --
      --- These are not words: wierd, genious, rediculous
    9. Re:O2 Atmosphere + Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you're at it, could you wish me a pony? Thanks!

  2. He said "insertion" ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    To celebrate the anniversary of the Cassini-Huygens probe's orbital insertion ...

    Hell, this is /., we'll celebrate anyone's insertion. Call me for the explosion.

  3. Death Star! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Vote for the Death Star (you can figure out which one I mean)

    1. Re:Death Star! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      That's no moon!"

    2. Re:Death Star! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      That's no Death Star.

    3. Re:Death Star! by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      Do you mean Iapetus or Mimas? (They should take a look at the Herschel crater on Mimas to see if anyone was using fusion charges there to move it.)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    4. Re:Death Star! by neo1k · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh my God! - it's full of stars!

    5. Re:Death Star! by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Vote for the Death Star (you can figure out which one I mean)

      Dude, the election was last November.

      Don't worry, though. The Death Star won.

    6. Re:Death Star! by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      Briefly :)

      Ah, Alderaan, we miss thee, tho we never knew thee

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    7. Re:Death Star! by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
      Maybe we'll find a force field and some dude asking for a spaceship.

      My stars! It's full of god!

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  4. The Death Star by minus_273 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    aaah the death star .. we are all doomed!

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
  5. Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The one picture that is supposed to show Titan's true color appears to be very similar to pictures of Mars having a bad air day. Is that picture really from Titan or did someone throw in a Mars photo?

    Inquiring minds want to know. :P

    1. Re:Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? by ravenspear · · Score: 1

      It's from Titan. I recall seeing that picture as part of the first group of pictures Huygens sent back to be made public. Though it was in black and white initially.

    2. Re:Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? by deglr6328 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It was BW. They used the spectral information from the DISR device (think of it as a single pixel of full very accurate color) and then used it to interpolate color for a whole image. Anywho, it's bizarre but the highest quality polished images didn't seem to come from the DISR group (bleech) but instead from amateurs, mere hours after descent no less. One should keep in mind this is all through an 1 byte/sec link from the probe....

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    3. Re:Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? by starbird · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can only get so much data out of those images. when you polish those images, you're just amplifying the noise in the image. Making out details that might or might not exist. Its best not to 'polish' them too much or you might infer details that really arn't there.

    4. Re:Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? by cahiha · · Score: 1

      "They used the spectral information from the DISR device (think of it as a single pixel of full very accurate color) and then used it to interpolate color for a whole image"

      That's what they did, but color doesn't work like that. What they are showing you is what you would get with a camera with a bad white-balance setting.

      Chances are that if you actually looked at the scene, you'd see something fairly neutral, closer to the b/w image, or even with blue and green hues.

    5. Re:Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? by deglr6328 · · Score: 1

      of course, but they're just trying to give SOME feel of what it might be close to. It's the best they can do with the data they have.

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    6. Re:Titan's True Color OR Is That Mars...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black and white is a much better approximation.

  6. and they did it without a shuttle! by grikdog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Cool about Cassini. NASA's Greatest Hits of the last few decades seem to be Lagrange Point planetary orbiters and the Hubble Space Telescope. I was going to credit the snake-bitten Shuttle missions for rescuing Hubble, but heck we're going to junk that.

    --
    ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
    1. Re:and they did it without a shuttle! by Bad+D.N.A. · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      What.. you look up the word "Lagrange" and hence you're a "Tom-Cruse" type expert on the scientific progress of current space missions? It's "glib" such comments that amount to nothing but FUD on an the scientific progress that has been made in the last decase.

      --
      "Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
    2. Re:and they did it without a shuttle! by Various+Assortments · · Score: 1

      Gold, Jerry, GOLD!

    3. Re:and they did it without a shuttle! by grikdog · · Score: 1

      Just a lowly forelock tugging taxpayer who thinks the shuttle has been a bad investment, especially considering the propaganda-driven groupthink that leads to such spectacular sacrifices as Challenger. As for Lagrange Points, I'm admit I can't do the math, but the concept of cheap delivery to far away places is elegant, dude. Bang for the buck, not bucks for the bang.

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
  7. Can't wait for the video. by frostman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I hope one day we get high-definition video from these missions.

    Imagine something like the the descent panorama but in the IMAX and later on your big fat TV.

    --

    This Like That - fun with words!

    1. Re:Can't wait for the video. by NIK282000 · · Score: 1

      If you look close you will see these mission can never produce HD images. The max resolution I have seen as 1024x1024 and the image quality then is still terrible. To get IMAX photos you need to send an IMAX camera.

      --
      Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
    2. Re:Can't wait for the video. by Bad+D.N.A. · · Score: 4, Informative

      Agreed... but... We would love to produce HD type pics from these missions. It's not a scientific problem, nor is it a technical problem, it's a financial problem! Let's take a look:

      The camera. This dude has to work in a radiation environment. You cannot just take your high-def Newegg purchased camera and launch it. These types of things have been tried before (non-flight qualified parts) and they don't last long. No, you have to build this bad boy from scratch with parts (CCDs, etc) that can withstand a severe radiation environment.

      BitRate. One of the significant cost issues on any mission is the science bitrate requirements. It costs a lot of money to get data back to Earth. First there is the instruments ability to collect such data (insignificant)... Second there is the spacecrafts ability to transmit this data, a very significant problem.. (with increased bitRate comes increased power requirements, increased mass, etc...) and with that comes a significant increase in the launch costs, to say nothing of the development costs.

      Collection... With an increased bitRate comes a greater requirement to collect the data and so a significant increase in cost.. You don't just point your little home dish at the right location and get a signal... (don't get me wrong, that would be great, but the power to generate such a signal would be sadly cost prohibitative). No, you have to collect the data on the big boys and they are not cheap.

      In each and every one of these missions the scientists and engineers have to scale back their desires (not because of any technological problems but) because what they would like to do cannot be done given the funding opportunity. So you cut, scale back, cut some more, scale back again, etc... and eventually you arrive at a proposal that might actually be funded. It's not exactly what you would hope for, but given the opportunity available it's your best bet at a viable mission.

      --
      "Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
    3. Re:Can't wait for the video. by jacksonj04 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What amazes me is that no probes have yet been constructed in orbit, allowing far larger probes to be sent. You could easily send up components, park them near the ISS whilst people go bolt them together, then send it on its way.

      Big camera? No worry. Need huge solar panels? No worry. Send them up piecemeal and build in orbit. Bus sized probes shouldn't be a problem.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    4. Re:Can't wait for the video. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would be more expensive if all of the materials come from the Earth. When you launch, you're launching not just the mass of the satellite, but also the mass of the rocket and fuel, so if you launch ten times instead of once, your mass (and thus fuel, and thus cost) overhead is greater.

      Now, if we were building everthing from materials that came from space, sure it could be cheaper (possibly--depends on how quickly the initial cost of building a lab in space can be mitigated).

  8. Great stuff by Robotron23 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the most intriguing of all the photos is likely the one of the moon Iapetus. While the other photos beautifully capture images of Titan and Saturn itself, the real object of intrigue is the geological formation on Iapetus. Near its equator theres a huge topographic ridge, which gives the moon a really unusual appearance.

    Was anyone else struck by how Titan seems very similar to Mars on its surface shot? Lots of small rocks and boulders laying around its surface and a general haze present etc etc.

    1. Re:Great stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Object of intrigue..."

      Yeah, it makes it look like a giant walnut. I would hate to see the cosmic squirrel.

    2. Re:Great stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was anyone else struck by how Titan seems very similar to Mars on its surface shot? Lots of small rocks and boulders laying around its surface and a general haze present etc etc.

      That reminds me of this other object that NASA has published quite a few pictures of... what was its name again... oh yeah, Earth.

      Surely pretty much any planet with a solid crust is going to exhibit features like "rocks"?

      Intellectual Swag

    3. Re:Great stuff by spauldo · · Score: 1

      More pictures of a rocky surface taken from the soviet probe to venus. Perhaps the rocky barren surface with grit-like "soil" is the norm for planets with atmospheres.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    4. Re:Great stuff by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Was anyone else struck by how Titan seems very similar to Mars on its surface shot? Lots of small rocks and boulders

      Actually, those "rocks" may be ice chunks according to some experts.

  9. Why Just Pictures? by DanielMarkham · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems by now we could have something a little more advanced -- holograms maybe, or at least all images as stereographs. If these robot missions are to take the place of manned exploration as some have indicated, then wouldn't it make sense to do the best you can so that people would feel they were actually there? Even the use of false color bothers me -- do people even know what the real planets look like anymore? Sky and Telescope magazine ran an article last month about how newcomers to astronomy are sometimes dissapointed when they see the real thing! It's because most of the pictures in the mass media have been "enhanced".

    Certifications: Worth It Or Waste Of Time?

    1. Re:Why Just Pictures? by xoboots · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Can you clarify what you mean be "anymore"? Was there ever a time that people knew what the real planets "looked" like? Or even the unreal planets for that matter....most of everything we know is heresay and much of that is colorful heresay, to say the least.

      Best of all, if you really want to know what the planets look like, these "false colored" images are the best thing after all because they pick out features that single sources of original data are obscuring or not picking up at all. It shouldn't be forgotten that this is data imaging, not a family picnic slideshow; the instruments being used to generate the data are not limited to the familiar visible-spectrum light camera that we are used to for our snapshots.

      Still, I'm anxiously awaiting those holographic images you suggested. Now thats a nice enhancement!

    2. Re:Why Just Pictures? by Bad+D.N.A. · · Score: 0

      "Seems by now we could have something a little more advanced"

      "If these robot missions are to take the place of manned exploration as some have indicated, ETC..."

      Holly shit. Nearly all of the scientific advances have taken place on these robotic missions. Your FUD would like everyone to think that manned missions somehow trump robotic missions on the science-production front. Go ahead and do the study (don't waste your time, it has already been done) and you will find that any 1 of these robotic missions have produced far greater advances in our understanding than all of the manned missions combined.

      I am not anti-manned-spaceflight. I just think that any mission should have to justify it's purpose, expectations, and cost along with all of the other proposed missions. If there is a justifiable scientific purpose, reasonable scientific expectations, and can be done at a reasonable cost then peer review it's ass, place that mission in the cue, and launch it when appropriate.

      --
      "Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
  10. Congratulations to all involved by suitepotato · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This looks like a mission very well done thus far and is the sort of thing we should do at every opportunity.

    For the future, I'd like to see us mass-producing multi-use probes and sending small convoys of them out across the system. I'd also like to see more space telescopes sent out and about to capture data to send home. Imagine sending something about half the size of Hubble to orbit between Mars and Jupiter.

    --
    If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
    1. Re:Congratulations to all involved by psoriac · · Score: 1

      This would be an excellent idea, but who's going to receive, process, and store all of that data? Not to mention try to extract the meaningful bits out of it?

      --
      I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
    2. Re:Congratulations to all involved by nofx_3 · · Score: 1

      I shall volunteer for this task. Please send the 2 billion dollar grant to my paypal account.

      -kaplanfx

      --
      Visualize Whirled Peas
    3. Re:Congratulations to all involved by essreenim · · Score: 0
      Hmm, an object tha big and the size of the dish needed to transmit that much data over that distance. Plus it's not really of any use...

      A waist of about 10 billion dollars?

  11. Seeing as it's a vote... by rde · · Score: 1

    Inevitably, whenever there's a vote some fucker'll complain about their own personal choice not being there. My choice - not cowboyneal - is for the shot of Mimas against the rings.

    Still, well done to all concerned for giving us a years worth of desktop pictures. Oh, and some science.

    1. Re:Seeing as it's a vote... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    2. Re:Seeing as it's a vote... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      I think that's just an edited version of this.

  12. rotation by dpille · · Score: 4, Funny

    the planet's rotation seems to be slowing!

    Of course it is. We keep using it to boost our spacecraft.

    1. Re:rotation by dabigpaybackski · · Score: 1
      Ha ha. That would take many, many slingshots in order to have any perceptible effect on Saturn's rotation.

      If it is indeed true that Saturn's rotation is slowing, then something very strange is happening with that planet.

      The only thing a not especially well-educated person like me can make of this observation is that there is mass migrating upward from Saturn's core, thereby slowing the rotation down. Then again, there are the physicists who posit the existence of strange "hyperdimensional" effects to account for the Saturn behavior.

      --
      "OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
    2. Re:rotation by SetupWeasel · · Score: 1

      What slows Saturn is the same thing that is slowing Earth. Tidal forces between the planet, its moons, and the Sun.

      Ever wonder why only one side of the moon faces us? It's called tidal locking.

      The Earth is slowing down too. Tidal forces gives the moon our angular momentum little by little. The Sun affects us too, just less so. As the earth's rotatiion slows, the moon's orbital velocity increases pushing the moon farther away.

      Saturn's rotation is slowing? As someone who has studied astrophysics, I can safely say: Duh.

    3. Re:rotation by cortana · · Score: 1

      I wonder about this: given enough time, does every stable system eventually become tidally locked like the Earth/Moon? Eventually, could we end up with only one face of the Earth ever seeing the sun? Ignore the fact that the sun might die before this could ever happen. :)

    4. Re:rotation by SetupWeasel · · Score: 1

      The answer is not as simple as you would think.

      First the earth would slow to match the moon's orbit. The moon's gravity affects us more than the sun's (roughly 3 times more if I remember correctly). Then the sun's tidal forces would eventually slow the Earth-Moon system so that the moon spirals back into the Earth.

      But here is the rub. The earth would lock with the sun perfectly... if there were no other celestial bodies affecting the two. However the other planets, mostly Venus, would probably throw a monkey wrench into the system.

      For instance, Venus appears to be locked with the Earth such that the same side of Venus faces the Earth at their closest approach. Mercury is stably locked at 3 days per 2 orbits. This has to do with the eccentricity of Mercury's orbit.

      But then again, given sufficient time, the Earth would slowly spiral into the Sun, because the momentum of the Sun's light has a braking effect on large bodies.

    5. Re:rotation by dabigpaybackski · · Score: 1

      Pardon me. I should have indicated in my initial post that the observed rate of change in Saturn's rotation was on the order of seven minutes per day since the initial readings by the Voyager probes thirty years ago. That is too significant a change to be accounted for by Saturn's moons. That is why the phenomenon is difficult for astronomers to understand.

      --
      "OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
  13. Coming Soon! by PHAEDRU5 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Texas-sized comet, accidentally knocked off-kilter by NASA probe, hits....

    T E X A S

    !!!!!

    Yeah, baby, yeaaaah!

    --
    668: Neighbour of the Beast
    1. Re:Coming Soon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I warn you once: Don't mess with Texas!

    2. Re:Coming Soon! by ThreeE · · Score: 1

      We have plenty of room. Hell, my backyard has plenty of room. My truck has plenty of room...

  14. thin atmosphere by haakondahl · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wouldn't that be an atmotorus?

    Yeah, yeah -1 Pedant...

    --
    Don't trust anyone under thirty.
    1. Re:thin atmosphere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't sell yourself short, I thought it was funny, however I spent all my mod points modding up FP! and Dupe! posts in other threads as insightful.

    2. Re:thin atmosphere by Presidential · · Score: 1
      Wouldn't that be an atmotorus?


      Actually, yes! Pretty phenomena, but they aren't as rare as the illusive atmododecahedron. Those angled gasses are usually only found in geometry class...

      --
      Whenever Mrs. Fitch breaks wind, we beat the dog.
  15. Kowabunga! by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  16. Titan volcano image is cool too by amightywind · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Titan landscape has proven to be so fantastic I hope NASA considers sending a long lived rover back soon. I think the recent Titan volcano VIMS image belongs on this list.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
    1. Re:Titan volcano image is cool too by Iron+Sun · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Solar System Exploration Strategic Roadmap lays out NASA's current plans/wishlist for robotic exploration in the next 20+ years. Basically, they foresee one Discovery class (NEAR, Mars Pathfinder, Deep Impact, etc) mission every two years or so; two or three more expensive New Frontiers missions per decade such as the Pluto New Horizons probe or the newly announced Juno Jupiter Polar Obiter; and one or possibly two $1 billion+ "Flagship" missions. The first flagship mission will be the much delayed Europa Geophysical Orbiter. The second Flagship mission, slated for 2013 or therabouts, will most likely be a Titan Explorer, an RTG-powered blimp to cruise around the surface for an extended period.

      Keep in mind that this is obviously subject to political whim, but it shows that Titan is a really high priority for future exploration.

    2. Re:Titan volcano image is cool too by hughk · · Score: 1
      Keep in mind that this is obviously subject to political whim, but it shows that Titan is a really high priority for future exploration.
      Of course, it has hydrocarbons.
      --
      See my journal, I write things there
  17. Cheap planet by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Imagine a planet losing seven minutes over a couple decades! If they look closely, they'll probably see that it's really a S4turn and God bought a cheap knock-off from a sidewalk vendor.

    They did say that they might not be measuring it right. Still, between the swirly fluid mass of the planet, the moon system, magnetic field and whatnot, if they're correct, it would be interesting to see where Saturn's hiding all the angular momentum.

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    1. Re:Cheap planet by darkonc · · Score: 1
      Perhaps it's just Saturn's outer atmosphere that's slowing down. That could account for much of the apparent slowdown without as much angular momentum loss.

      BTW: Is there any estimate of the mass of the rings and moons compared to the mass of the earth's moon?

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  18. Shades of Niven by adavies42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone else read _Integral Trees_?

    --
    Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
    -kfg
    1. Re:Shades of Niven by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

      Yes, that was a very nice book.

      The math was pretty tough though.

      --
      Stop the world; I need to get off.
  19. Best picture not in list, unfortunately by Thagg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Of the pictures they have to choose from, I have to go for the pic of Iapetus. It's by far the most shocking of the pictures -- the girdling ridge around Iapetus' equator is just too weird to believe.

    But, my favorite Cassini picture is this one, of the rings edge on. Here you can see a perfectly straight line, almost a quarter of a million miles long. Where else in the universe can you see such a thing?

    Thad Beier

    --
    I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
    1. Re:Best picture not in list, unfortunately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I figure Iapetus has hinges on the other side...

  20. Oddly Familiar.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "NASA's JPL has a set of fifteen amazing photos from the past year."

    Does this remind anyone else of a BoingBoing post? I think that I'm going to have to stop visiting that site for a while to avoid insanity stemming from overuse of words/phrases such as amazing, wonderful, flickr photo set, etc.

  21. rotation problem by shadowbearer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just an amateur astronomer, but :)

    My first thought there (+grain_salt) is that Saturn must have suffered a grazing collision with a large body - probably the same one that created the rings - and the dispersion of the rings mass, like the recession of Earth's moon, is having the same effect on Saturn that it does here, slowing rotation. Unlike Earth's moon this would have to be an unstable system.

    Only that seems like a *huge* number, given how fast Saturns' rotation is, and how massive it is *. So the impact must be recent - and it's pretty widely accepted, I gather, that Saturn's rings are very young.

    If that figure for the rotational change is right - is it just the surface winds or something deeper? - then whatever created the rings was *very very* recent?

    * Too tired to do the math, but wouldn't Saturn's low density contribute?

    Cheers,
    SB

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    1. Re:rotation problem by at_18 · · Score: 1

      Data from Cassini indicate that Saturn has slowed down its rotation compared to what other automatic probes measured in the '70s and '80s. So no big bodies and no significative dispersion of mass - we would have seen it.

    2. Re:rotation problem by shadowbearer · · Score: 1


      As "young" as the rings are, they're still quite old compared to mankind :) Easily could have been an impact millions of years ago that is still having effects on Saturn...

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    3. Re:rotation problem by gomoX · · Score: 1

      I don't think so.
      An impact a million years ago would have slowed down Saturn's rotation a million years ago.
      For every change in speed or angular momentum there is an applied force somewhere. An impact that happened that long ago can't be directly responsible for something happening today.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    4. Re:rotation problem by shadowbearer · · Score: 1


      The dancer continues to slowly spread her arms, and Saturn's inertial moment changes as the ring system changes. Do I have to spell it out? :)
      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    5. Re:rotation problem by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IMO, it may have something to do with the different layers or "shells" that make up Saturn. Maybe momentum gets transfered back and forth between layers in a cyclical fashion. It is difficult to give precise rotation numbers because Saturn is a big ball of goop. If you can only obtain clues from a limited part(s) of the goop, then you get only approximate numbers.

      Even Earth's outer rotation speed is slightly different from the core's because the core is molten and can move slightly independant of the harder outer shell. This difference is part of what generates our magnetic field, which can be measured with a drug-store compass.

  22. Mod parent up by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

    I've not seen the pix of Iapetus yet, server is a bit slow from here, but the Cassini picture of the edge-on rings is absolutely incredible.

    How.... "herded" :)

    One would think that random impacts and gravitational interactions among the particles in the ring would make them much "fuzzier". Yet the ring is remarkably compact. It's not even on Saturn's equator, it's tilted.

    Makes my head hurt :)

    Cheers,
    SB

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  23. Nice shots by Comatose51 · · Score: 1

    Yes, I like them... Nice T and A shots of Saturn. :-P

    --
    EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
  24. Gorgeous. by william_w_bush · · Score: 1

    Beautiful pic, never saw this one before, You can even see some of the larger asteroids in the rings.

    --
    The first rule of USENET is you do not talk about USENET.
    1. Re:Gorgeous. by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Those arent astroids, those are MOONS.
      Yes, the planet is really that damn huge...

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    2. Re:Gorgeous. by william_w_bush · · Score: 1

      holy shit youre right, cong tfa.

      would've assumed the moons would be out of the plane of the rings somehow. also forgot how big earths moon is compared to its primary.

      man, i suddenly feel bad for all those astronomers who have to find and count the damn things.

      --
      The first rule of USENET is you do not talk about USENET.
  25. Just out of curiosity by Slinky+Saves+the+Wor · · Score: 1

    I wonder where the ring line points to, when viewed from the side? I.e. which stars lie along the line (if the line were to be continued as it is)?

    Entertain me, astronomy people :)

    --
    I do not moderate.
    1. Re:Just out of curiosity by essreenim · · Score: 0
      I would guess that it lies directly perpendicularly in line with Saturns siderial axis.

      Just like Eart is tilted during rotation, so too is Saturn and hence the plane of its rings..

  26. Herschel by mikekinasz · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Herschel Photo

    http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/poll/index.c fm?pollContentID=12&getDetails=Yes&indexPage=No

    I must be tired.... when I first saw this I thought it was the "Death Star"

  27. ROTFLMFAO!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    :-)
    after seeing your post, I now have hope for humanity.
    I haven't laughed this hard in ages.
    Good work, you are the number one troll, the rest are just frosted mini-wheats.

  28. Wal-Mart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy an e-machine, they rock!!!

  29. Re:penis? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    8===D

    Is probably better.

    Also 'an action shot':

    8===D-'`

    Although the balls look sizably diminished.

  30. Re:Apple Advice needed - OT by n1zhi · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    As current Apple systems don't seem to be subject to major variations in price, waiting may bring no, or little, benefit.

    Last year I purchased an iBook, as my laptop at the time would not adequately run Linux.

    This year saw the purchase of two Mac Mini machines - one for a relative and one for home use. They're easily the best computer-related purchases I made within the past year.

    Should you purchase an iBook, I would recommend also the purchase of a 1-gig memory module.

    Crucual, among others, have them available in their online store.

  31. Re:Apple Advice needed - OT by n1zhi · · Score: 1

    'Crucual' should, of course, be 'Crucial'.

  32. I am scared by houghi · · Score: 1

    Just look at this picture and then compare it with this one

    This really needs more investigation.

    here they are together.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  33. stupid ST reference by Androk · · Score: 1

    and that the planet's rotation seems to be slowing!"

    For whatever reason (sleep deprivation??) I read that and heard Spock in my head saying "the Defiant is slowing"

    God, I need to get out more.

    Androk

  34. Return probes by essreenim · · Score: 0
    Yes, it is very expensive, and of course there is always the chance that someone will flip the wrong beits and not correlate for Doppler shift etc. This almost happened with Cassini!!

    I really think we need to stop focussing on sending signals. Instead send smaller "nono probes" inside a larger mother ship. Get the nano probe(S) to return to earth directly with the data - expensive I know but I think it's worth the cost.

    Should be especially useful for a mision like phobos where the cost of the return trip would be relatively cheap!

  35. Troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Troll