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Peter Seebach Pokes Around His TiVo

Posted by timothy on from the loosely-connected-scripts dept.

Warrior points out Peter Seebach's look into his Series 2 TiVo, writing "There are a lot of sites about 'hacking' the TiVo, to do this to it and that to it (and there's always the other thing too). After all, half the fun of owning something that runs Linux is to make it do something more (or different) than it was intended to do. But most of us only need so many Web servers (off the top of my head, I think I have 10 or 15 Web servers in my house already, including the embedded systems)."

25 of 145 comments (clear)

  1. I give it 25 minutes max... by wo1verin3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Until someone senior at IBM notices and has it pulled down. Interesting to see some of the people at IBM as real people though with a real interest in what they do.

    1. Re:I give it 25 minutes max... by jhoger · · Score: 4, Informative

      The article's scope is clearly, purposefully limited to poking around the filesystem. No DMCA or other copyright issues involved. If anything, trade secret, but it's hard to argue using an Apple filesystem is a reasonable step towards protecting a secret.

      Anyway, I'd be surprised if IBM legal hadn't already given the article the green light.

    2. Re:I give it 25 minutes max... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except that this guy doesnt actually work for IBM.
      He's just an ordinary geek I'm afraid.

    3. Re:I give it 25 minutes max... by seebs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For the record, as the article says, I'm a freelancer, not an IBM employee.

      That said, the editorial process at dW is not trivial or careless, and I'm pretty sure IBM will keep the article as is.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
  2. Numbers by Metteyya · · Score: 4, Funny

    10-15 webservers? Wow! We, Slashdotters, have been asking "does it run Linux" for a loong time and now we have it.
    And now excuse me, I have to cross-compile apache for my wrist watch.

    1. Re:Numbers by MobKiller · · Score: 2, Funny

      nahh... Forget that... you'll spend your life trying to make windows interoperate with all this

    2. Re:Numbers by gildesh · · Score: 3, Funny

      sadly... I once wrote a webserver in PHP didn't run for very long, the php apache module killed it after 30 seconds, but those were the most glorious 30 seconds ever

  3. Why not run a web server on Tivo??? by Em+Ellel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Unlike most linux appliance devices, there is aactually a LOT of usefull things that can be done by rinning a web server on Tivo - like remote scheduling/control of the device for one.

    -Em

    --
    RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    1. Re:Why not run a web server on Tivo??? by WonderSnatch · · Score: 3, Informative

      Like Tivo Web?

      Brett

    2. Re:Why not run a web server on Tivo??? by Osty · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unlike most linux appliance devices, there is aactually a LOT of usefull things that can be done by rinning a web server on Tivo - like remote scheduling/control of the device for one.

      Right, because Tivo doesn't already have that (caveat: requires a Series 2 Tivo that's been upgraded with the now-free HME software, which you should already have from standard updates unless you've specifically hacked your Tivo not to update). You can also watch recordings in multiple rooms (requires a second Tivo, of course), view photos and listen to music, transfer your recordings to your PCs (caveat: with DRM, but what did you expect?), and develop new applets.

      Tivo has been very good about embracing the hacking community (to the extent that they link to external forums from tivo.com that cover hacking), and have stepped up with official, free support for many of the features people were hacking for previously (the previously mentioned remote scheduling, photos, music, multi-room viewing, and PC transfers). They've also provided a nice SDK so you can easily write new Tivo apps using Java. With all of that, I simply don't see any need to hack a Tivo any more aside from increasing drive space (not that hacking will stop, nor should it -- that's where the innovation starts).

    3. Re:Why not run a web server on Tivo??? by mr_zorg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, *BUT* if you're one of those people with a DirecTiVo, you don't get any of those spiffy things. DirecTV won't allow it. But I really like the integration such units offer -- you just can't match it with a standalone unit. So, hacking becomes a way to GET those features on your DirecTiVo...

    4. Re:Why not run a web server on Tivo??? by jerw134 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right, because Tivo doesn't already have that

      You're forgetting about the DirecTV DVRs, which run Tivo software but do not have (official) HMO support. There is no Tivo.com web scheduling for them, the only option is a built-in web server.

    5. Re:Why not run a web server on Tivo??? by Kurt+Granroth · · Score: 2, Informative
      Right, because Tivo doesn't already have that (caveat: requires a Series 2 Tivo that's been upgraded with the now-free HME software, which you should already have from standard updates unless you've specifically hacked your Tivo not to update). You can also watch recordings in multiple rooms (requires a second Tivo, of course), view photos and listen to music, transfer your recordings to your PCs (caveat: with DRM, but what did you expect?), and develop new applets.

      I have three Tivo systems, including two Series2 sets and use all three nearly obsessively. I use the multi-room feature every other week or so (much more so during the winter). Transferring shows between sets is nearly trivial.

      All that said, I wouldn't dream of suggesting that Tivo Central Online and Tivo2Go come close to approximating the power of TivoWeb or the like. Tivo Online, for instance, has two fatal flaws:

      1. It doesn't show you your current recording schedule
      2. Recording are scheduled the next time your Tivo updates
      As far as I'm concerned, those two flaws make the entire feature useless. The only time I would want remote scheduling is when I'm away from the Tivo (meaning I need some way of knowing what is scheduled) and forgot to record something (meaning I want it to take effect right NOW).

      The Tivo2Go feature is also fundamentally flawed... also for two reasons:

      1. It is Windows only and costs $50 extra
      2. The downloaded show is difficult to edit
      All but one of my systems runs either OS X or Linux and that sole Windows system has no burner. Oops... Tivo2Go is unusable already. Then, when I download shows, I edit off the commercials (this was doubly important back when I encoded the result on VCDs since a full show with commercials wouldn't fit on one CD)... Tivo2Go fails again.

      To sum up, I remain a huge Tivo fan and think they do most things absolutely right. But as long as they cripple remote scheduling and downloading, TivoWeb and the like (IMO) remain essential "power user" utilities.

  4. Interesting Discovery Process by linuxtavern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While this isn't information that wasn't already known about the Tivo, the way he presented it is very interesting. Documenting the process of how he figured out the drive map and how to read the drive is invaluable.
    Teach someone how to fish...

  5. Slashdot Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "But most of us only need so many Web servers (off the top of my head, I think I have 10 or 15 Web servers in my house already, including the embedded systems)." ...Not anymore you don't.

  6. Linky by Hachey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Enjoy!


    --
    Check out the Uncyclopedia.org :
    The only wiki source for politically incorrect non-information about things like Kitten Huffing and Pong! the Movie !

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  7. Re:Dual-Mount by FueledByRamen · · Score: 3, Informative

    Disclaimer: I don't know much about the software layout of a Tivo.

    Since it's based on Linux, you can grab a copy of IBM's iSCSI target reference implementation from the web, and point it at the drive. Access the iSCSI target 'ro' on any other suitable machine.

    Or you could use NBD, but that might require a kernel module. The iSCSI target runs entirely in userland.

    Both of these, though, involve installing more software on the Tivo. Without some really weird hardware sitting between the drive and the Tivo's motherboard, that's the best you're going to get.

    --
    Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
  8. The TiVo survived by rigorist · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am happy to report that the TiVo seebs hacked on is working just fine as a plain and ordinary DVR. It came up just fine after I reattached the hard disk cable that seebs had forgotten to reattach (although he did put all the old screws back in).

    It's replaying today's stage of the Tour right now.

  9. Tivo is wife/gf compatible by Symb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Been done. He didn't analyze anything, just recorded his experience (the screenplay of which was scripted by the giants whose shoulder he stands on). The fact of the matter is proprietary and defensive hardware prevents you from exerting your OSS/GNU/HaXHiPPie powers. So buy it for what it's worth and use your time meaningfully OR hack to your hearts content with a freevo or equiv.

    The point still stands that Tivo is understandable by the majority of significant others out there. I got my wife a tivo. She loves it. We control TV and have more prime time together. End of story.

  10. half the fun by Pollardito · · Score: 3, Funny
    After all, half the fun of owning something that runs Linux is to make it do something more (or different) than it was intended to do.
    just like half the fun of owning something that runs windows is to make it do something that it was intended to do
  11. Dealdatabase.com by BLKMGK · · Score: 5, Informative

    Forget the AV and TIVO supported forums if you want to REALLY delve into a TIVO. They will freak out if you mention video extraction and you're likely to be banned before getting nay answer. Instead head for http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/ and get into the GUTS. Warning, they eat their young over there so do some research before daring to post. Also grit your teeth as more senior members are designated as "gods" by some of the more irritating.

    That said - my S2 DTIVO is now running a 250+Gig HD, has a USB2 NIC attached, has encryption disabled, allows me to EASILY archive shows using MFSFTP (Etivo is looking interesting), and I'm running 4.x software that was designated for the SA versions of the TIVO but has features I wanted (folders!). I learned all about how to do that on DealDatabase and by doing research on the tools I heard about there. I honestly still am no "pro" with a TIVO but I've learned enough to make my TIVO more useful and that of a few others too. While that forum may be a bit hostile for the uninitiated it's about the best going for serious TIVO stuff and they won't ban you for daring to utter "extraction"!

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  12. obligatory "In Soviet Russia...." by imperious_rex · · Score: 2, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, TIVO pokes you!

  13. Re:Dual-Mount by bonehead · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, it is a silly question, for the simple fact that you eliminated the only possible answer within the question itself.

    You can't have an IDE hard drive connected simultaneously to two controllers, so the only possible way to accomplish what you're asking is to use some variety of networked file system.

    This, of course, requires making software changes on the TiVo, which you apparently can't be bothered to do.

  14. Re:Hacking newbie question by bonehead · · Score: 2, Informative

    SHIT!!!!! I forgot this part!!!

    DON'T BOOT INTO WINXP WITH YOUR TIVO DRIVE ATTACHED TO THE COMPUTER!!!!!!

    DON'T DO IT!!!!

    XP will write its "DiskID" or whatever they call it to the boot sector and it won't work in your TiVo anymore.

    Shit, I got sidetracked thinking of tools that would do the job that this "minor issue" completely slipped my mind. Long day, couple of beers, you know... Damnit! It's times like this that I really wish it was possible to go back and edit posts on this site.

  15. So do it yourself... by BLKMGK · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seriously, the biggest feature I wanted from the SA TIVO was Folders for recorded shows - only on the SA models. I had two fairly slow but decent 120Gig drives in my unit and listing recorded shows took an eternity - it sucked. I had also used a method of modding the software that was no longer "supported" and in fact the developer had been driven out of the community. Asking for help from the guys who had driven the guy out was pretty useless. Well, one of the drives toasted somehow so...

    Okay, starting from scratch I did some research and learned that the 4.x software that has folders and HMO works FINE on the DTIVOS! I also wanted a better drive so I popped for a 250+Gig drive with 16meg of cache. Problem - LBA48 kernel needed. Yup, you can get a kernel that does this too - even purchase a CD to do it from a vendor (and the 4.x image too!).

    Bottom line - my TIVO runs the SA software, works fine, is FAST, has folders, has a standard interface to setup the supported USB NIC (okay, I upgraded to better drivers), doesn't encrypt my shows, and I can do extraction.

    Honestly? I SUCK at Linux but there's enough info out there that mortals can do this if you're halfway technical. I did lose the shows I'd already recorded and I would advise not reusing the original drive but overall it's doable obviously if I can do it. I purchased my images and the tools to support the vendor, I asked questions when I needed to on DealDatabase, and in general just muddled my way through.

    Now I just want to get TIVO2GO! on my DTIVO box, not yet sure how I'll do that - slices? Folks are reversing the TIVO2GO! protocol and the encryption on that has also been whacked so that might be a "significant other" friendly way of doing extraction... All in all I really like my DTIVO and it's got higher quality recordings than the SA boxes to boot .

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org