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Commercial Use of Shuttle Landing Facilities Planned
VeganBob writes "There may be future non-NASA uses of the Shuttle Landing Facilities. At 15,000 feet long and 300 feet wide, the landing strip is larger than those at most commercial airports. From the article: 'NASA today issued a formal request for expressions of interest by non-NASA organizations, including commercial space companies, for use of the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF) at the Kennedy Space Center (KSC), Fla. The announcement is the first step in considering how and when NASA can expand access to available capacity at the SLF by government, commercial, and academic organizations.' SPACE.com also covers this announcement."
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Kennedy+Space+Center +Florida&ll=28.617153,-80.677242&spn=0.096542,0.16 2100&t=k&hl=en
to see things not going to waste, like facilities not being used.
There's no place like localhost
After hearing about their plans to send people to space. They asked if they already had a landing site, and China said no. So they offered to let them use theirs for a small price, but they passed. When asked why, they explained that while they were sending people to space, they had no plans to bring them back.
Or regular races - sell lots of tickets - you could call it the NASACAR races.
I need to get in on this so I can start my new business, named Doublelook, Inc. Companies like GEICO and Vonage will pay me to display thier banner ads on large 10-mile-wide orbiting displays. And everynight, an eclipse caused by a circular display. Maybe it could say "This eclipse brought to you by Coca-Cola?" I just need to work out my pricing model. Maybe a cost per impression, but how am I going to know when someone looks at the space banner?
Powered by caffeine and sugar; BSD
I say we use it for some high powered go-cart drag racing. Who's with me?
Couldn't it be a bad thing for companies to start launching stuff into space. Not just say, satelites, but perhaps other stuff including space marketing? Shouldn't there be a limit on what goes into space and what doesn't?
$ cd/home/fridge
$ ls | grep "coke"
Landing fee is $0.99 and parking fee is Arm Leg and First Born
NASA today issued a formal request for expressions of interest by non-NASA organizations
I'd like to use the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF) at the Kennedy Space Center (KSC) please.
Contact details as above.
This would be a good launch site for SpaceShipTwo... or rather, five SpaseShipTwos loaded onto their respective Whight Knights as the same time! That's a huge runway...
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That is an enormous runway. Back in the day, I flew into Fargo ND's hector field as one of the way points on my solo cross-country. As I landed the C152, the thought that I could probably land on the runway sideways did cross my mind.
The runway at 9000x150 was rumored to be a 747 training ground for the airlines. With a longer and wider runway, I can see it getting use for folks learning how to fly the big jets.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
does anyone else see the world's first proffessional slip 'n slide tournament?
It's not the length or width of the runway that sets it apart--quite a few airports have runways rivaling (or exceeding) those dimensions. It's the construction quality and flatness. Runway diagrams will usually list the runway elevation for either end separately, because it will ofen differ by up to a few hundred feet. One of my most interesting experiences as a student pilot was landing on the rolling hills of a local airport runway.
I expect this to be the first step in a long-awaited "privatization" of the space program which is actually a code word for "dismantling", as the pieces of our space program are taken apart and sold off to various commercial interests which, while they definitely do something useful with them, don't once you think about it have anything whatsoever to do with space. (What, you thought the shuttle landing strip was going to be leased to private space ventures? Nah. There's only a couple of those right now, they aren't necessarily in the right places, and they're still just big planes at the moment. By the time the private space ventures get to the point they can seriously lease stuff from NASA, there won't be a NASA left to lease from.)
Now, I know you haven't seen this trick before, folks. Now, watch this hand in which I am holding up a new shiny Manned Mission to Mars Plan. I will implore you to look at this Manned Mission to Mars and see that there is nothing unusual about it, it has not been tampered with. By focusing your attention on the Manned Mission to Mars-- which actually is perfectly normal, with nothing wrong with it-- you won't notice what I'm doing with my other hand, which is one by one palming all the other aspects of our space program and shoveling them into the trash. Misdirection, folks. Maybe it's intentional, maybe it's unintentional. But either way the trick ends the same way: the hand you weren't watching sets a stage, and when the Mission to Mars plan finally appears to change hands that hand you weren't watching will suddenly open up and reveal itself empty, reveal there was never anything there to begin with, the Mission to Mars plan you were concentrating on so hard never had any substance, only empty promises, just illusion. And now, mysteriously, all those other parts of what used to be the space program are just gone.
...for Ford to test their anti-lock brakes.
Japan Air Lines was using the runway at Moses Lake, WA (13500 ft) for training Boeing 747 pilots.
That's a HUUUUGE runway for a town that can reach out and slap the Middle of Nowhere.
All your base are be used by us too. -- Commercial flyers
Either accident or terrorism, the potential damage is too great to take any chances we don't have to.
NASA should turn it into the world's first commerical spaceport, something like Mos Eisley. :P
The vast investment the US has made, over several generations, into space launches, has paid of very well (huge ROI). The ongoing subsidies to commercial aerospace are still appropriate, in leveraging that sunk investment into pushing US industry over the edge into sustained self-development. The people planning the use of these public facilities should be sure that such subsidies are only those necessary to ensure a robust domestic space industry, rather than underwriting all the risks of entrepreneurs in this strategic domestic industry. And the long history of boondoggle projects, justified only as corporate welfare to politically connected insiders, should help define the requirements of those American companies fortunate enough to use the facilities in our backyard to grow.
--
make install -not war
I think NASA would appreciate its use by people who won't crash jets onto the runway more. That, or whoever did the landing is responsible for replacing the divots.
By the time any pilot ever gets to fly and land their first big jet, they're already a well-seasoned expert who has logged thousands of hours of flight time and tens of thousands of landings in progressively larger and larger, and more sophisticated aircraft on their way up their flying careers. There is no such thing as "primary" training ever done in a jetliner. In fact jetliner pilots have to successfully pass a rigorous training regimen in simulators on the ground before they ever get to the co-pilot's seat of the big iron, and several years of flying right-seat before they get to the left seat.
i believe that the shuttle runway is specialized for the shuttle itself. meaning the surface is matched to the tires of the shuttle and graded more aggressively then normal airport runways. meaning, in short, it will shred tires of normal airliners, if not on landing, then on repeated use. the shuttle's tires are replaced every flight, not so with commercial airliners.
why make it this way? they were concerned with keeping the runway functional regardless of weather, so that the shuttle crew could come down at any time, in any weather. thus the texture of the runway was made rough, so that the tires could grip in wind, rain, snow, whatever. you can just divert passenger aircraft to another airport, or ground them from taking off in bad weather.
For massive runways, you can't beat those at old SAC bases. I was stationed at Loring AFB and the runway there is 12,000' x 300'. I'm sure similar runways exists at other former B-52/B-36 bases. Talk about a way to revitalize a community...space travel!
From A Net Asset Tax Based On The Net Present Value Calculation and Market Democracy
CURRENT ECONOMIC CONDITIONS AND RISK INVERSION
A fundamental problem with our economy at present is what might be called "risk inversion" where households with high net worth disproportionately invest in low risk instruments while households with low net worth find their savings unwisely invested at high risk by deregulated but relatively unskilled financial institutions.
New technologies and job-creating enterprises find it difficult to obtain capital because they are caught in the horns of a dilemma: The wealthy, who have the business experience needed to manage the risks of a new enterprise, have given their money to government or corporate bureaucracies to manage while small savers find their savings accounts squandered in speculative investments by institutions which are, in reality, qualified to do little more than purchase Treasury paper, which is what they should, in fact, be doing.
Even more perverse, the government finds itself stepping away from its traditional low-risk investments in mature infrastructure in order to perform functions for which it is particularly ill-suited, such as technical innovation, while private sector businesses retreat from the very technical risk it is most suited to manage.
The government then finds itself bailing out the failed investments of insured, but deregulated, financial institutions, thus creating even more government debt which is purchased by those most qualified to capitalize business enterprise.
Seastead this.
I thank you (ITY).
Folks like RocketPlane are lining up their own resources, such as a 12,000' surplus runway. NASA is afraid of getting passed by by the upcoming non-governmental space projects. They want to sell/rent resources so they can stay relevant. If Florida has any sense, they'll jump in make sure this happens. We are, after all, talking about tourism. "See Space! And then see Disney World!" How much money do you think the Orlando airport makes due to tourist traffic? KSC wants some of that.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
With NASA making plans to phase out the STS, and it's need for landing on an immense runway at ridiculous touchdown speeds, it's hardly suprising that they'll want to find another use for the landing strip. I reckon that NASA's new stuff are going to be traditional vertical launch, parachute landing jobs, and won't need the big long strip.
A few weeks ago I tried submitting the following story to slashdot, but it kept on getting rejected (same with these stories). As seems to be becoming tradition, I thought it would be relevant to the current topic, so I've pasted the text here. And no, it's not Karma-whoring if my Karma's already been maxed out for years. :)
At a recent talk, Michael Griffin outlined NASA's plans for helping to generate a robust and competitive commercial market in orbital spaceflight. The speech and Q&A transcripts from the talk are available. In a move reminiscent of the US government kickstarting the early airline industry by purchasing airmail services, NASA plans on supplementing government-derived transport by purchasing cargo delivery services to the International Space Station from commercial providers, followed by crew transportation after the systems have proven themselves. Unlike traditional government contracts, sellers wouldn't see a profit before the services are delivered and the emphasis will be on actual performance instead of process and specifications. Aviation Week has some commentary on the announcement.
I also think I remember seeing something before about NASA selling one of the launch complexes at Kennedy Space Center to SpaceX, but can't find more info. Does anybody have a link to more on that?
a formal request for expressions of interest by non-NASA organizations, including commercial space companies,
Could this have anything to do with Scaled Composites not only kicking NASA's ass but actually making fun of them?
By the time the shuttle is up again you'll be staying at the Virgin orbital hotel for $1,000 a night.
Don't get me wrong, growing up (in the 60's) I worshiped NASA, but they've become a laugh in the academic and engineering communities. The robotic and deep space teams are all first rate but they're handicapped by the launch paradigm. The manned program is a laugh. For crying out lould, we're dependent upon Russia to get food and porn up to our guys in the station!
seriously, if they affect any flight decision in an attempt to win the bet, rather than what's best for the flight
"just anudge to the left, and I'll make 500$" only they overcorrect, and flip the xXbillion dollar shuttle...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Sounds like the US is again trying to create revenue, it figures. If the US government would stop wasting money on unecessary crap (space program, welfare, invading other countries, etc.) then they wouldn't need more and more money all the time, what a bunch of morons. Can anyone else see that the US continues to go broke?
There is also a Shuttle landing strip at Vandenberg Air base on the Gaviota coast here in California. You can see the runway from the Amtrak Surfliner and Coastliner trains. Vandenberg was also supposed to be an alternate Shuttle launch facility, but was never used as such.
e +Base+California&ll=34.733191,-120.580444&spn=0.03 8894,0.060176&t=k&hl=en/
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Vandenberg+Air+forc
Also compare to the great pyramid of the sun in Teotihuacan Mexico: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=teotihuacan+mexico&l l=19.692049,-98.845840&spn=0.030414,0.022219&t=k&h l=en
These runways would make incredible settings for autocross courses (google SCCA Solo). I'm sure it won't happen, but I can dream.
-Rich
Is there one anywhere near White Sands or is that something they made up for the movie Space Camp?
Yes indeed. Cape Canaveral is used for attaining equatorial orbit, while Vandenberg is used for circumpolar orbit. There have been no manned circumpolar missions at all, ever. None. Just the occasional scientific or military satellite.
Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
This reminds me of the STTOS episode "The Tholian Web."
If only he had been phased out before those Priceline commercials.
It is I think the world's largest commercial and the nations 2'nd largest runway. It is something like 16000 x 200 feet. In fact, It is now a back up for the shuttle.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I mean, what the heck other uses are there for a landing strip, except drag racing? Drag racing is what life is all about. Life revolved around drag racing. There is nothing else in life except drag racing. What the hell is a drag racer doing posting in /.? Well, let me tell you. One year, I rolled my car at the drags and ended up in the hospital for a long time. My only connection to the outside world was a computer with an Internet connection. I didn't know jack about computers before that. I only knew carburetors, V8s, throttle cables, and the like. But when I discovered computers, I learned they can be cool too. So here I am, suggesting that the ultimate geek use of NASA's landing strip would be as a drag strip.
They say that the moon will turn red and the sun black before the end of the world.
For some reason, I keep envisioning that as some man-made sattelite blocking out the sun for a while and the Coca-Cola logo being advertised on the moon.
And I have no idea why, but it scares the hell out of me in that I have no trouble believing it possible.
In the next 20 years, there will be another space race -- this time with China. Hopefully by then we can still compete without having to buy the parts or borrow money from them.
The Space Camp movie was working from facts. The runway at White Sands missile range was used to land the Columbia at the conclusion of STS-3. Later on White Sands was named the White Sands Space Harbor. This is also a location for shuttle return training in the modified Gulfstream.
l
3 /mission-sts-3.html
http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/index.htm
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/sts-
Chris
The idea of provatizing management and use of a public facility seems pretty close to just making the private-sector-only Republican argument. I remember that some people (here on