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Disney World Collecting Fingerprints
cvd6262 writes "Disney World is now requiring all visitors to have their index and middle fingers scanned to gain entrance to the park. This started for season pass holders, but is now required for everyone." From the article: "'I think it's a step in the wrong direction,' Civil Liberties Union spokesman George Crossley said. 'I think it is a step toward collection of personal information on people regardless of what Disney says.'"
I recently went there for the 4th of July (well, arrived around the second). After buying the tickets we decided to go to Disney Quest (Arcade).. We waited in line for quite awhile waiting for a number of people in front of us to do the whole two finger scan deal. Usually, it wouldn't work the first time, and they would need to do it over, and over.. One group in front of us couldn't get in because the girl's fingers didn't match her card. Nothing about how it wasn't a valid card, just the fingers didn't match.
What I was told was the first time you use the system they take a shot of your fingers, this is used across the parks afterwards. My group of friends laughed when I raised an eyebrow at the fact that they were collecting fingerprints (though apparently not, generally it would be taken as that).. I was a bit annoyed at the fact that my prints were then on record with Disney. What exactly is the point? Keeping people from reusing the pass? Ok, that is fair, but it would have seemed better to use something like "It was used twice in minutes? That makes no sense!" Or perhaps "They haven't left the building yet, how has it been used elsewhere?"
It just seems like they've put way too much work into making it harder.
Proceed with Format (Y/N)? Y
Last time I went, they wanted an arm and a leg.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
My middle finger for sure.... before they see me.
While agreeing with the ACLU that this is a step in the wrong direction, it is not as troubling as one thinks. We must keep it in mind that Disney is a private corporation and is able to set barriers to access to its parks. As long as they're not discriminating based on protected categories, their requirement for fingerprints must be protested with lack of patronage but little else. Ultimately, I think in overly security-concious America, we'll see that the public views this as a 'lesser evil' in the broader war on 'terror'. Indeed, they'll gladly surrender their fingerprints in order for the mirage of safety within Disney - perhaps they prefer it to a seemingly non-secure environment like ... oh Six Flags?
The only problem I could see is if this applies to season-ticket or regular-ticket owners who bought their tickets under circumstances that did notinvolve fingerprinting and are now faced with fingerprinting or being refused access to the park.
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
On the other, at least we don't have to get rectal exams on entry to the park.
You haven't looked at ticket prices lately have you?
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
You want to force people to get down on all fours to get their anal probe.
You'd think that instead of all this finger scanning, they'd just scan the inside of your ass when they do the anal probe and get it over with in one easy step.
WTF is this Mickey Mouse bullshit?
The reason I don't like biometrics for identification is that it's virtually impossible to get a new identification should the old one be compromised. Worse, with fingerprints at least, you're leaving copies of your ID everywhere you go on everything you touch.
Imagine someone gets ahold of your identity right now. Yes, it's going to be a pain, but you can get a new SSN, driver's license number, credit cards, etc. But what if a thief gets your fingerprint and creates a fake ? How do you cancel that? Sure, in theory, a database of compromised biometrics could be created to prevent future unauthorized use, but now what about your legitimate use? If my fingerprints were compromised, would I no longer be allowed in to Disneyland? And in a more serious application, would I be denied credit? Be unable to use an ATM?
As a resident near Orlando, FL, I remember when Disney World first started using these biometric systems for Florida resident passholders. Prior to the finger scans, the passes had an ID photo which made the lines go much slower while a ticket attendant checked to make sure the picture matched you. The long and short of it is, the privacy concerns are no worse than having your picture taken was.
:-P
Yeah, you probably can't buy a park hopper ticket and give it to a terrorist now, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway.
I shouldn't reply, but you had me nodding my head in sympathetic agreement, until your last paragraph. Now, I'm thinking: wtf dude?
Secure it?? They will sell it. Or government will force them to release ie.
Do you remember the airlines after 9/11. They were forced to send all their passengers data to the government. The airlines denied it. Then it came out as true. Then the airlines admitied it.
Can anyone imagine seeing a mom, pushing her 6 year old daughter and saying "honey, scan your hand so we can see Mickey".
Did anyone see the slashdot story a month ago about the Naperville library that requires fingerprints to use their library?
Or what about Boston and the thousands of cameras they put up? Then Chicago and the 3,000 cameras they put up?
When will everyone admit this is a police state? When you are not allowed to quit your job? When you are told you must work and have no overtime. When you have no health insurance. When the courts take away your rights, that your grandparents had? WHEN? WHEN!!!
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
They can take my prints off of Sleeping Beauty's voluptuous ass. Seriously, that bitch got back.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
You know, you had a reasonable (if somewhat rambling) argument in your post right up until the last sentance...
...why, because the Iraq war is unjustified, or because the cops stole your fingerprints? I have no idea where you live but it is irrelevant. I know people born and bred in my country who would also recommend nuking cities as a political tool.
"I hope a nuke goes off in NYC, or should I say NYX."
Your kind are of no particular colour, you cover the spectrum of politcs and privlage. You need not worry about Disney or the cops, you are easy to recognise from your advocacy of a "final solution" that makes the rest of us want to puke!
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
bingo, the other thing is, you dont associate your name with the individual pass, so they are only pinpointing "pass 106 has this finger structure with it", outside of that, they know that the first person who uses the pass has those fingers, not their name/age/gender/etc. Creditcard holder information could probably be gleaned, but not the actual person's info (at least not by this).
I've been to Disney a batch, and one thing I noticed was that the park hopper passes arn't restricted like this, only single park passes and season passes (which makes sense on the seasonal ones so you cant loan out your pass and let the entire neighborhood go for free)
To me the logic is to prevent/deter theft on the individual passes, or at least give that illusion (which seems to be a key element in America many times now). If you had to provide a name, or some other actual record, say an eye scan or an actual finger print, then yeah, I'd be a tad more concerned, but this I'll conceed in the proverbial war on privacy so that I may pick my key battles another day.
We don't need an "overrated" so much as we need a "you completely missed the parent's point, dumbass..."
It's hard for me to be a libertarian and stand by my principles when I hear news like this, but I have to stick to my guns, even when I fervently personally disagree with something.
Disney is not a part of your government. They are free to exist as a theme park, just as Six Flags and Alton Towers (in the UK) are. They are entitled to set whichever requirements they like for you to enter their park. Just as you are allowed to place retina scanners at the front door of your house if you so please.
I believe in monopoly regulation, so as long as Disney is not the ONLY theme park available (and Windows isn't the only usable OS), they are free to set their own rules, on their own property.
I also believe, however, that they must disclose what they will be doing with any information they collect, so that you can be informed in your decision to surrender or not surrender your finger-scans and such.
Using your Microsoft example, they currently don't quite have a monopoly on the desktop OS market. There are 2 usable alternatives (*nix and MacOS), and plenty of other hobby OSes that work to an extent. If they set DRM requirements for music and videos, etc. and the market starts to play along, producing hardware that supports this and cripples other OSes, then they develop a monopoly. This is not healthy for the market and really takes away from personal choice of OS, so it must be stopped. That is the only time I support public (government) intervention into such corporate affairs.
You see what I mean? Right now, you can always take the kids to Six Flags if you don't like Disney's rules. You can always petition Disney to change as well.
Dude, this is called arbitration. A buys something, but doesn't use it up, so A sells it to B. Disney hasn't lost anything - they were already paid for the days A couldn't use.
If they prevent B from buying A's unused tickets and force B to buy a new ticket that means they're double dipping.
Not a moral thing to do. But of course, in the good old USA, this is not only legal, it's the thing to do. Profits uber alles.
They were forced to send all their passengers data to the government.
From what I heard, that is not quite true. Apparently, the feds told the airlines that they did not have to turn over the info. But if they did not, the US gov. would forbid ALL employees from flying the airline. In addition, they would not be eligible for the loan (did not help United, but I am not sure that United gave up the data). Finally, they might have a hard time making changes at airports, flights, etc.
Basically, GWB's admin guaranteed that if they did not cooperate, that the feds would sink them slowly.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
> it sets a very bad precident
I believe that misspelling precedent sets a very bad precedent. Soon enough you're misspelling you're, and they're messing up they're. It's a short skid to it's, and before long no one can spell no one.
Snidley Frux-Disney, adopted great-grand nephew of Walt Disney's mentally handicapped half-brother Edgar "See What I Do On A Steamboat" Disney said "This is a positive move, we believe it's time for Mickey and Goofy to learn the goose step".
"Liberty Is For Chumps" will feature Mickey and Goofy in a moral dilemna as they discover that Minnie votes Democrat and donates to the ACLU. "We thought this was the perfect time to retire the character of Minnie, with some real snazzy shots of the Disney Prison, Disney Riot Squad and the Disney Execution Chamber."
"In Do You Know What Your Parents Are Saying When The Door Is Locked", Goofy discovers that his mother and father are actually distressed that the Patriot Act may be giving away far too freedoms. Mickey sings a brand new Disney hit "Those Little Birds Will Shut Up If They Know What's Good For Them". Naturally, there's some rousing fun as Goofy arrests his parents for thought treason.
A third film, entitled "Your DNA Belongs To Us" is scheduled for release next year.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Seems like I go through this every time a biometric security thing comes up on /.
There are three fundimental ways to identify yourself for access:
Something you have.
Something you know.
Something you are.
Something you have would be a physical token that can't be copied, at least not easily. A smartcard would be a good example. Someone has to physically steal it from you to use it, and you are likely to notice it's absence and alert the proper people. However the problem is that it can be stolen, or lost and thus used.
Something you know would be a password or PIN code. It's an ID stored in your head. The advantage is you don't have to carry it around and can't lose it. The problem is if someone finds it out, they can use it without you ever knowing it's been compramised.
Something you are is of course a physical trait. The good thing is that can't be stolen or anything. Problem is what you are changes, and can't be measured precisely anyhow and thus can be spoofed.
Now, real security comes from using 2 or three of these. Since their problems are different, moving to more than one makes it much harder to compramise security. If all that is required to get on a system is a password, all an intruder needs to do is find out the password and they are in. If, however, it takes a password, smart card, and fingerprint they have to find out the password, steal the card, and obtain and make a fake finger, all before any of this is noticed and access can be revoked.
So, in the case of Disneyland, they are maoving from 1-factor (somthing you have) to 2 (something you have and something you are). Even if someone steals your card, they have to build a fake hand (it's checking hand geometry, not fingerprints) and use it unnoticed. However the real aim is to prevent peopel from shaing their cards. It's easy to give away a token, much harder to make a convincing fake hand and not get caught.
So biometrics are NOT worthless unless they are the only security. When used as an augmentation to one or both of the other methods of security they make it that much harder for someone unauthorized to gain access.
Even if Disney deserves it - do those people deserve it?
No, the people don't deserve getting hurt. The employees don't deserve getting hurt. Nobody does, not anywhere, not in the USA or anywhere. It is just so frustrating watching the America I love turn into a country where human rights and civil liberties no longer mean very much. It was frustrating being called unpatriotic for not supporting the war, like I am less of an American because I don't blindly follow, and question statements government makes, for example "we were fighting for WMD" then "No, it was never about WMD, it was about removing a dictator". Does anyone remember the presentation Powell gave at the UN showing drawings of mobile WMD factories on wheels driving around Iraq. Did my mind make that up? Do people remember any of it, or do they not care??
The government is supposed to protect all the people, to value democoracy, to gaurentee individual liberty so people can read whatever they want, work anywhere, and be free. Instead, there are libraries that require fingerprints, Disney World scanning fingerprints. It follows logic, as the price of these fingerprint machines goes down, more stores will be buying them. What will it be like, when in order to pump gas you first have to scan your fingerprints, to make sure you don't drive off. Then Hotels decide they like the idea of fingerprints scans, no more keys to rooms. Then the airplains and trains decide that in order to ride, they want a fingerprint. Then the stores in poorer neighborhoods want them, for fear of being robbed. Soon, it will be hard to find places that don't want your fingerprint.
And you know what is waiting in the shadows. Some large corporation that will buy this data and put it in some uber-large database. Your whole life will be in a computer somewhere. Your habits, where you shop, what you buy, how much you make, what you read, if you preffer coke to pepsi.
What if one day there is a government that wants a coup, to overthrow the democracy we have. Would it be easier if these people had large databases, to know exactly who to go after, the troublemakers who would make noise?
Now, take that information with what employeers are doing. Large companies convinced the USA to pass NAFTA, the companies promised it would be good for American workers. Instead, these same companies are building factories in Mexico, and firing people in the USA. Jobs that people need, that familes relied on. Watch Roger and Me, it is a good example of what can happen when a large factory closes its doors, how a community can turn from upscale into a poverty stricken ghost town. And don't get me wrong, if these companies paid the same wage to mexicans as they did to americans, I would not be complaining, but they are paying the mexicans an unlivable wage. It is slave labor, when people have to work their hearts out to make just enough to eat.
And employers are getting worse. A local computer store now requires applicants to take a drug test, then come back and take a personality test which they never tell you the results to, then the last step is agreeing for a credit check. This is for a $9.50 an hour job working the floor stocking hard drives, video cards, and anwsering customer questions. And after they hire the person, they still never tell them the results to those tests, or what they did with them. If they don't hire, you have no way of knowing if those tests were the reason they did not hire you.
What scares me is what I see comming down the pike. An America with limited jobs, most low paying, and all requiring going through databases to see everything about your life. Unlike in the 60's when anyone could get a job anywhere making good money, today it is hard to find a good job. Companies like Motorola lay off 11,000 people over three years, and then give their CEO a million dollar bonus. Sun Microsystems asked the government for permission
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
This is such a wrong way of looking at things... What will happen is that they can do whatever pleases them - and not the general public. What happens if every theme park would implement biometric access? It's in their interest, so if one has it...
Should I be banned from themeparks? What about grocery stores? Privately owned markets? This is the same kind of argument most liberals use for employers. They can do whatever they please - if you don't like it, look for another job.
Society is there for the people that live in it. Putting any company interests in front of those of the people is plain stupid. I've got nothing against a free market place, but in every playground there should be rules.
One should be against collecting (uniquely) identifing biometrics.