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Disney World Collecting Fingerprints
cvd6262 writes "Disney World is now requiring all visitors to have their index and middle fingers scanned to gain entrance to the park. This started for season pass holders, but is now required for everyone." From the article: "'I think it's a step in the wrong direction,' Civil Liberties Union spokesman George Crossley said. 'I think it is a step toward collection of personal information on people regardless of what Disney says.'"
With that aside, WHO CARES. You cannot be uniquely identified by your hand geometry, it simply reduces the chance that you are using someone elses pass.
I recently went there for the 4th of July (well, arrived around the second). After buying the tickets we decided to go to Disney Quest (Arcade).. We waited in line for quite awhile waiting for a number of people in front of us to do the whole two finger scan deal. Usually, it wouldn't work the first time, and they would need to do it over, and over.. One group in front of us couldn't get in because the girl's fingers didn't match her card. Nothing about how it wasn't a valid card, just the fingers didn't match.
What I was told was the first time you use the system they take a shot of your fingers, this is used across the parks afterwards. My group of friends laughed when I raised an eyebrow at the fact that they were collecting fingerprints (though apparently not, generally it would be taken as that).. I was a bit annoyed at the fact that my prints were then on record with Disney. What exactly is the point? Keeping people from reusing the pass? Ok, that is fair, but it would have seemed better to use something like "It was used twice in minutes? That makes no sense!" Or perhaps "They haven't left the building yet, how has it been used elsewhere?"
It just seems like they've put way too much work into making it harder.
Proceed with Format (Y/N)? Y
Last time I went, they wanted an arm and a leg.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
I sort of got mixed feelings about this. On one hand, we have to give up our biometrics. On the other, at least we don't have to get rectal exams on entry to the park.
My middle finger for sure.... before they see me.
Not sure about the index finger, but I'll certainly be giving Disney a chance to "scan" my middle finger after reading about this one.
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While agreeing with the ACLU that this is a step in the wrong direction, it is not as troubling as one thinks. We must keep it in mind that Disney is a private corporation and is able to set barriers to access to its parks. As long as they're not discriminating based on protected categories, their requirement for fingerprints must be protested with lack of patronage but little else. Ultimately, I think in overly security-concious America, we'll see that the public views this as a 'lesser evil' in the broader war on 'terror'. Indeed, they'll gladly surrender their fingerprints in order for the mirage of safety within Disney - perhaps they prefer it to a seemingly non-secure environment like ... oh Six Flags?
The only problem I could see is if this applies to season-ticket or regular-ticket owners who bought their tickets under circumstances that did notinvolve fingerprinting and are now faced with fingerprinting or being refused access to the park.
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
You want to force people to get down on all fours to get their anal probe.
You'd think that instead of all this finger scanning, they'd just scan the inside of your ass when they do the anal probe and get it over with in one easy step.
WTF is this Mickey Mouse bullshit?
The reason I don't like biometrics for identification is that it's virtually impossible to get a new identification should the old one be compromised. Worse, with fingerprints at least, you're leaving copies of your ID everywhere you go on everything you touch.
Imagine someone gets ahold of your identity right now. Yes, it's going to be a pain, but you can get a new SSN, driver's license number, credit cards, etc. But what if a thief gets your fingerprint and creates a fake ? How do you cancel that? Sure, in theory, a database of compromised biometrics could be created to prevent future unauthorized use, but now what about your legitimate use? If my fingerprints were compromised, would I no longer be allowed in to Disneyland? And in a more serious application, would I be denied credit? Be unable to use an ATM?
Although it is clearly not fingerprints now, it makes me think like this is just a lead-up to actual fingerprinting. They get everyone use to the idea of biometrics at the park, well at the same time trying to keep privacy advocates slightly less angry.
Voice your opinion!
As a resident near Orlando, FL, I remember when Disney World first started using these biometric systems for Florida resident passholders. Prior to the finger scans, the passes had an ID photo which made the lines go much slower while a ticket attendant checked to make sure the picture matched you. The long and short of it is, the privacy concerns are no worse than having your picture taken was.
:-P
Yeah, you probably can't buy a park hopper ticket and give it to a terrorist now, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway.
Well I did my part: I clicked the "No, I don't like it" button on their survey. Twice!
What if you managed to get your index finger lopped off (or at least "slightly damaged") during your stay at the park?
Or what if you happened to break your hand at work, got a huge settlement, and are now taking time off... will this thing recognize bits of your cast?
Swelling due to a beesting or some allergy perhaps?
In any case, I wonder what Disney's policy is for these sorts of unusual cases.
Secure it?? They will sell it. Or government will force them to release ie.
Do you remember the airlines after 9/11. They were forced to send all their passengers data to the government. The airlines denied it. Then it came out as true. Then the airlines admitied it.
Can anyone imagine seeing a mom, pushing her 6 year old daughter and saying "honey, scan your hand so we can see Mickey".
Did anyone see the slashdot story a month ago about the Naperville library that requires fingerprints to use their library?
Or what about Boston and the thousands of cameras they put up? Then Chicago and the 3,000 cameras they put up?
When will everyone admit this is a police state? When you are not allowed to quit your job? When you are told you must work and have no overtime. When you have no health insurance. When the courts take away your rights, that your grandparents had? WHEN? WHEN!!!
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
They would do the finger scan, and if it didn't work the first time the attendant would usually just manually override the scanner and let you in without much hassle. Also, the person I was with and I have similiar hand sizes, and flip-flopped passes all week. It almost certainly isn't a fingerprint scanner, just a very rough check.
Additionally, it seemed that the biggest issue with the scanner was not getting your fingers all the way into the device. If they weren't pushed all the way in, with the webbing between your index and middle fingers hitting the stopper peg, it didn't register. We kept trying to put our finger tips on the scanner assuming it was a finger print scanner, but it seems its main function is to check finger length. Of course, this is just an observation I made, I have no idea how the thing actually works.
You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
Disney is one of the most hipocritical and anti-freedom companies in existance. I for one would not visit their parks for any reason, but this is simply ridiculous.
I fucking hate Disney for what they have done to our laws. I hate them for using this hand scanner. They are bastards.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
They can take my prints off of Sleeping Beauty's voluptuous ass. Seriously, that bitch got back.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
They do it to allow a day pass to go in and out, without being used by multiple people.
Seems like a nicely elegant solution to me!
There's a poll in the original story, a simple yes no maybe box with a submit button. /.'er responded it would be easy to push the poll in the direction of individual liberties and defense of privacy.
If every
Yes, I am aware it's not an official Disney poll but there's still a chance they'd pay attention to the results if they were overwhelmingly negative because the tv channel hosting the poll is neutral.
What's needed is for the people to get together and (in a nice way) let congress know how they feel about these things. While I admit that that's not likely to happen, your histrionics make it seem like only those on the lunatic (sorry) fringe care about these things.
Shut up. And stop drooling.
Don't like it, don't go to Disneyland.
Yeah, sure. Okay, it's creepy, but hey, it's just Disneyland. I don't have to go there. And tomorrow Blockbuster Video starts requiring a scan to rent a video, but hey, it's just video-rental. Soon the Mobil gas-station starts using biometrics for their speedpass. Then maybe the bank wants your prints if you want to open account. And if the government starts requiring it first for their services and later legislates it as a requirement for other businesses, well, it's not as if it wasn't being used everywhere already, right?
I prefer to stop these things BEFORE they become the accepted norm.
Those without arms will have to go to other amusement parks.
You know, you had a reasonable (if somewhat rambling) argument in your post right up until the last sentance...
...why, because the Iraq war is unjustified, or because the cops stole your fingerprints? I have no idea where you live but it is irrelevant. I know people born and bred in my country who would also recommend nuking cities as a political tool.
"I hope a nuke goes off in NYC, or should I say NYX."
Your kind are of no particular colour, you cover the spectrum of politcs and privlage. You need not worry about Disney or the cops, you are easy to recognise from your advocacy of a "final solution" that makes the rest of us want to puke!
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Disney certainly has the right to do that. And we certainly have the right not to go to Disney. I'm sure Universal Studios will accept us with open arms.
...don't go to DisneyWorld. End of problem. It's a private park, not government or public property. Don't like their policies? Don't do business with them.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
When will everyone admit this is a police state?
Hmm. For living in a police state, you sure are able to talk all you want about the evilness of the police state.
As for the article in question: if a private company wants to use a hand-geometry scanner to help eliminate abuse of their passes, well, that's their business. Just take the kids to one of those Linux-powered Open Source Anarchyworld Amusement Parks I've been hearing so much about.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
All of you American citizens out there, listen up. Whether or not Disney is on the up and up about this, there's only one way to fix the problem once and for all. It's time for every good citizen to petition their political representitives for privacy laws that mean something. In my job, I deal with privacy laws from countries around the world. We plan what we have to do to comply with the local laws of each country. When we come to the US, more often than not it's "don't worry about it, the law doesn't mean a thing". Isn't it about time we make it mean something? Get politically active. It's the only way to make a difference. You can bet the RIAA, MPAA, Disney, Microsoft, even fair haired IBM are politically active.
The US used to have a government that was for its citizens. It's about time we had one again.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Sell what? Your prints? Or the reams of data they already have, like so and so has visited there 5 times in the last 3 years, and spent an average of $275 each visit.
They already do that. No prints needed.
Or what about Boston and the thousands of cameras they put up? Then Chicago and the 3,000 cameras they put up?
You want cameras? Go to England.
Dude, this is called arbitration. A buys something, but doesn't use it up, so A sells it to B. Disney hasn't lost anything - they were already paid for the days A couldn't use.
If they prevent B from buying A's unused tickets and force B to buy a new ticket that means they're double dipping.
Not a moral thing to do. But of course, in the good old USA, this is not only legal, it's the thing to do. Profits uber alles.
Disney only admits armed patrons? I didn't know they moved to Texas....
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
They were forced to send all their passengers data to the government.
From what I heard, that is not quite true. Apparently, the feds told the airlines that they did not have to turn over the info. But if they did not, the US gov. would forbid ALL employees from flying the airline. In addition, they would not be eligible for the loan (did not help United, but I am not sure that United gave up the data). Finally, they might have a hard time making changes at airports, flights, etc.
Basically, GWB's admin guaranteed that if they did not cooperate, that the feds would sink them slowly.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Cockprints.
paintball
> it sets a very bad precident
I believe that misspelling precedent sets a very bad precedent. Soon enough you're misspelling you're, and they're messing up they're. It's a short skid to it's, and before long no one can spell no one.
That's idiotically simplistic - ownership doesn't give you the right to make up any rules you like. Or do you think Disney should be allowed to refuse entry to Black, Jews, etc? Maybe just Muslims would be alright?
Snidley Frux-Disney, adopted great-grand nephew of Walt Disney's mentally handicapped half-brother Edgar "See What I Do On A Steamboat" Disney said "This is a positive move, we believe it's time for Mickey and Goofy to learn the goose step".
"Liberty Is For Chumps" will feature Mickey and Goofy in a moral dilemna as they discover that Minnie votes Democrat and donates to the ACLU. "We thought this was the perfect time to retire the character of Minnie, with some real snazzy shots of the Disney Prison, Disney Riot Squad and the Disney Execution Chamber."
"In Do You Know What Your Parents Are Saying When The Door Is Locked", Goofy discovers that his mother and father are actually distressed that the Patriot Act may be giving away far too freedoms. Mickey sings a brand new Disney hit "Those Little Birds Will Shut Up If They Know What's Good For Them". Naturally, there's some rousing fun as Goofy arrests his parents for thought treason.
A third film, entitled "Your DNA Belongs To Us" is scheduled for release next year.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
here, let me hold it up for you.
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
First, it IS THEIR park, THEY OWN it, THEY DECIDE who gets in and HOW.
Secondly, they are not collecting fingerprints, they are checking something personally identifiable, that is the geometery of the hand, of the owner of the passes and tickets. No different than using a hand scanner at a business to control access to a sensitive area as far as I'm concerned. Don't like it, don't go there.
Why is it so hard to understand that this has NOTHING to do with your freedoms? Unless Disney suddenly was handed power without someone telling me, they can do with and control their property and services as they see fit. My choice to spend my money on business with them as I see fit. Why is this such a hard thing to grasp?
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Don't let them sample and gene scan you! They're just selecting their next victims for Disney Abductions! Have you or anyone you love:
Disappeared for off-the-map hours at a Disney site.
Been completely unable to remember where the time went.
Had a wonderful time, no need to do hypnotic regression recall, keep back you mothers of sons! If so, you might be Cory Doctorow. Please contact your Magic Kingom Hall.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Weren't you the same people that elected Bush president?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
"That's idiotically simplistic - ownership doesn't give you the right to make up any rules you like. Or do you think Disney should be allowed to refuse entry to Black, Jews, etc?"
I don't know about the person you're responding to, but that sounds reasonable to me.
Business owners free to be as idiotically bigoted as they want to be, and consumers free to give their money to companies that don't suck. It's better than the sort of concealed racism we have now.
At any rate, it's not as though this is the last straw for me where Disney's concerned. They sucked long before this situation ever saw light. I'm proud of the fact that my toddler does not recognize Mickey Mouse or any other Disney character.
Seems like I go through this every time a biometric security thing comes up on /.
There are three fundimental ways to identify yourself for access:
Something you have.
Something you know.
Something you are.
Something you have would be a physical token that can't be copied, at least not easily. A smartcard would be a good example. Someone has to physically steal it from you to use it, and you are likely to notice it's absence and alert the proper people. However the problem is that it can be stolen, or lost and thus used.
Something you know would be a password or PIN code. It's an ID stored in your head. The advantage is you don't have to carry it around and can't lose it. The problem is if someone finds it out, they can use it without you ever knowing it's been compramised.
Something you are is of course a physical trait. The good thing is that can't be stolen or anything. Problem is what you are changes, and can't be measured precisely anyhow and thus can be spoofed.
Now, real security comes from using 2 or three of these. Since their problems are different, moving to more than one makes it much harder to compramise security. If all that is required to get on a system is a password, all an intruder needs to do is find out the password and they are in. If, however, it takes a password, smart card, and fingerprint they have to find out the password, steal the card, and obtain and make a fake finger, all before any of this is noticed and access can be revoked.
So, in the case of Disneyland, they are maoving from 1-factor (somthing you have) to 2 (something you have and something you are). Even if someone steals your card, they have to build a fake hand (it's checking hand geometry, not fingerprints) and use it unnoticed. However the real aim is to prevent peopel from shaing their cards. It's easy to give away a token, much harder to make a convincing fake hand and not get caught.
So biometrics are NOT worthless unless they are the only security. When used as an augmentation to one or both of the other methods of security they make it that much harder for someone unauthorized to gain access.
He will be declined, ejected from the resort area, and heavily sued. I think we're all familiar with Disney's views on piracy.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
ownership doesn't give you the right to make up any rules you like.
Funny, that's how it works on my property. I tell my guests they can either follow my rules or leave - and they can leave any time they like. But there is no third option available to them.
In the land of the free I'm free to make the rules that govern my property, and you're free to leave (or not enter the property in the first place) if you don't like the rules. Freedom all around, for everyone concerned.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Even if Disney deserves it - do those people deserve it?
No, the people don't deserve getting hurt. The employees don't deserve getting hurt. Nobody does, not anywhere, not in the USA or anywhere. It is just so frustrating watching the America I love turn into a country where human rights and civil liberties no longer mean very much. It was frustrating being called unpatriotic for not supporting the war, like I am less of an American because I don't blindly follow, and question statements government makes, for example "we were fighting for WMD" then "No, it was never about WMD, it was about removing a dictator". Does anyone remember the presentation Powell gave at the UN showing drawings of mobile WMD factories on wheels driving around Iraq. Did my mind make that up? Do people remember any of it, or do they not care??
The government is supposed to protect all the people, to value democoracy, to gaurentee individual liberty so people can read whatever they want, work anywhere, and be free. Instead, there are libraries that require fingerprints, Disney World scanning fingerprints. It follows logic, as the price of these fingerprint machines goes down, more stores will be buying them. What will it be like, when in order to pump gas you first have to scan your fingerprints, to make sure you don't drive off. Then Hotels decide they like the idea of fingerprints scans, no more keys to rooms. Then the airplains and trains decide that in order to ride, they want a fingerprint. Then the stores in poorer neighborhoods want them, for fear of being robbed. Soon, it will be hard to find places that don't want your fingerprint.
And you know what is waiting in the shadows. Some large corporation that will buy this data and put it in some uber-large database. Your whole life will be in a computer somewhere. Your habits, where you shop, what you buy, how much you make, what you read, if you preffer coke to pepsi.
What if one day there is a government that wants a coup, to overthrow the democracy we have. Would it be easier if these people had large databases, to know exactly who to go after, the troublemakers who would make noise?
Now, take that information with what employeers are doing. Large companies convinced the USA to pass NAFTA, the companies promised it would be good for American workers. Instead, these same companies are building factories in Mexico, and firing people in the USA. Jobs that people need, that familes relied on. Watch Roger and Me, it is a good example of what can happen when a large factory closes its doors, how a community can turn from upscale into a poverty stricken ghost town. And don't get me wrong, if these companies paid the same wage to mexicans as they did to americans, I would not be complaining, but they are paying the mexicans an unlivable wage. It is slave labor, when people have to work their hearts out to make just enough to eat.
And employers are getting worse. A local computer store now requires applicants to take a drug test, then come back and take a personality test which they never tell you the results to, then the last step is agreeing for a credit check. This is for a $9.50 an hour job working the floor stocking hard drives, video cards, and anwsering customer questions. And after they hire the person, they still never tell them the results to those tests, or what they did with them. If they don't hire, you have no way of knowing if those tests were the reason they did not hire you.
What scares me is what I see comming down the pike. An America with limited jobs, most low paying, and all requiring going through databases to see everything about your life. Unlike in the 60's when anyone could get a job anywhere making good money, today it is hard to find a good job. Companies like Motorola lay off 11,000 people over three years, and then give their CEO a million dollar bonus. Sun Microsystems asked the government for permission
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
You are confusing common-sense business with the activities of mega-corporations. Once corporations become as large as some small countries, they too develop an unquenchable thirst for power and control over others, the sheep known as "consumers" in particular.
So they deploy police-state mesures, even if they are actually losing money on the specifics. The general idea however is that enslaving "consumers" will in the long-term result in an uninterruptible (regardles of economics) income. Disney (like many other corporate nation-states) has been engaged in these activities for a very long time.
You did not think DMCA was about piracy, now, did you?
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Like, say, putting your picture on the pass.
----
All of whose base are belong to the what-now?
Linux-powered Open Source Anarchyworld Amusement Parks I've been hearing so much about
The GooglePark? It's in beta.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison